<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I have made so many, many piercing and challenging comments and yet, Rajesh, you let it blithly pass and unchallenged. So many insults and yet... Others would think that you are thick. I am beginning to feel sorry. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ufff. We are back to thinking for what other (should) think. Start feeling sorry for yourself. The "piercing" and "challenging" comments have included..
(1) Acharya arrest was group karma while tsunami was act of god.
(2) Acharya was a joker, trickster and a criminal.
and many more. Earlier I seriously used to think NS and you had good intentions at heart. Oh how you have exposed yourself and NS to be the anti-hindu morons that you are. Dont worry man, keep posting on these threads, we have created a corner for you. Your droppings just keep fattening the dossier against you as well as NS.
PS : I dont recall you having productive conversations with *anyone*.
<!--QuoteBegin-Viren+Mar 27 2005, 08:49 PM-->QUOTE(Viren @ Mar 27 2005, 08:49 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--> And, I see you have slept through 20+ some odd pages of seer arrest thread posted by forumites here - I'm not surprised. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
On the contrary, Viren, I read ALL those posts very, very carefully, as well as discussed the issues with lawyers and police officers here. They all say that there cannot be an arrest or a charge without some credible evidence, without some admission or acknowledgement. They said that no police force in the world would do such a thing, and certainly not the Indian police.
I didn't want to comment on the seer arrest thread as I saw that there is too much of emotion, denial and and disbelief there; people naively asking for evidence as if the police are obliged to present evidence on demand. But I will comment on the arrest AFTER the trial begins.
Read the other thread on 'jaya can do not wrong'. I did not say that.
Refer Navyashastra issues directly to them. They dont represent me, and neither do I represent them. As it is with India Forum.
Viren, I hope I have clarified the issues for you. If I missed anything please let me know. Your editing was in good order. Thank you.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->(1) Acharya arrest was group karma while tsunami was act of god.
(2) Acharya was a joker, trickster and a criminal.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You should have read carefully my long post on that. Tsunami is an act of God as well as a group/national karma. Everything that happens to us is our karma. Regarding the acharya, I described the arrest as a karma AS WELL as an act of god. I said he was chosen to face this.
Ahh, the dossiers, the vengeance and payback, the trolling and the nasty snivelling and snitching behind the back - typical Indian crab pulling others down! Let it go man, it will eat you up!
Now if you will stop frothing Rajesh, I'm sure we will have some amicable exchange of views. <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Refer Navyashastra issues directly to them. They dont represent me, and neither do I represent them. As it is with India Forum.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Their website lists you as one of the 'International committee' members, thought I'd let you know just in case they put your name up there without your knowledge.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->They all say that there cannot be an arrest or a charge without some credible evidence, without some admission or acknowledgement<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We can wait for trial and all and let the chips fall where it may, but still haven't pointed to the evidence *you* had on day after Diwali i.e. the day after he was arrested.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->but still haven't pointed to the evidence *you* had on day after Diwali i.e. the day after he was arrested. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I did not have any more evidence than you did, Viren. (But then we were not looking for evidence then). I was just clear and level headed and dispassionate and knew that the police would not simply fabricate.
But I had heard rumours for more than ten years before about kanchi and other mathas, about how they were only interested in power and money, and women! Of course I disbelieved it all, but it kept repeating everywhere I went. They told me, "dont bother with them, they are doing pujas, eating like gluttons and putting on weight and warming the peedas only. They are not meditating or striving in tapas or interested in teaching the religion of propagating".
This last part I knew. Anyone who is striving, or had a glimpse of satchidananda would know that the first reaction is a burst of conscience, an outporing of love, seeing everyone as equals and all discrimination goes. The immediate reaction would be to hug and kiss everyone - just like Mata Amma.
From this I knew that the power of the sampradaya had died centuries ago. And it was only a matter of time that the instinctive and intellectual forces of the external mind took over. It did.
But I feel it is the same with 'most' of the other mathas and acharyas. There is no truth, no spirituality, no striving, but just holding on to their positions of power and hoodwinking the Hindu people and living off their patronage. Is it surprising that Hindu society is in such a state when the leadership is such?
Let me post you something just to show how wrong we Hindus may have been misled. (I hope it does not create another bushfire. <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
Regards.
Pathma
PS
Even though they are smarthas, in practice they are saivas and I have no qualms criticising my own. I would rarely criticise another tradition.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Ahh, the dossiers, the vengeance and payback, the trolling and the nasty snivelling and snitching behind the back - typical Indian crab pulling others down! Let it go man, it will eat you up!<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ooo.. came with all guns blazing eh ?!
Except this is not behind your back. I asked you for your permission and you gave me the permission so its only fair that your "happy days are here again" post will show up in a few places. Shouldnt bother you - I am just banging the door for you so why get all touchy ? <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Pathmarajah+Apr 5 2005, 09:32 AM-->QUOTE(Pathmarajah @ Apr 5 2005, 09:32 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->
But I had heard rumours for more than ten years before about kanchi and other mathas, about how they were only interested in power and money, and women! Of course I disbelieved it all, but it kept repeating everywhere I went. They told me, "dont bother with them, they are doing pujas, eating like gluttons and putting on weight and warming the peedas only. They are not meditating or striving in tapas or interested in teaching the religion of propagating".
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What a way to pass on your biased comments in the name of "rumors" ?? I am sure you would have picked up those "rumors"
from worthy magazines like Nackeeran...
And then you would have defintely not heard of "rumors" that Sri Jayendra Saraswati Swamigal (a diabetic patient) didn't even take a sip of water, till he completed the "Dhanurmasa puja" late in the night on the day he was released on bail or the "rumors" about the way the junior acharya lived in prison (a report of which appeared on the the hindu as well) or the "rumors" that the Senior Acharya was living on nothing but rice flakes ("aval pori" in tamil) mixed with a little buttermilk.
Pathma, I request to have more intellectual honesty and introspection, before posting something about a 70+ year old person or persons of his stature.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->But I had heard rumours for more than ten years before about kanchi and other mathas, about how they were only interested in power and money, and women! Of course I disbelieved it all, but it kept repeating everywhere I went. They told me, "dont bother with them, they are doing pujas, eating like gluttons and putting on weight and warming the peedas only. They are not meditating or striving in tapas or interested in teaching the religion of propagating".
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pathmarajah,
I have been reading your posts in this forum, relating to the kanchi mutt and the acharya and the "general moral decline of the mutt," as you implied.
None of your arguments or conclusion against the mutt and the acharya seems to be based on direct evidence or proof; on the contrary all your opinions and conclusion appears to be based on "anecdotal evidence" which then is being paraded as the collective sentiment of the majority. Every social scientist knows that an anectodal evidence makes an interesting or amusing reading - but is nothing more!
It is very easy to deride someone or an institution using opening statements such "there are many who say.....," "people say.....," "people feel....", "it is said that.....," "It is rumoured...." etc. Journalists do this all the time, passing off their own personal opinions on a social issue as wider public opinion or popular view. In the case of the Kanchi incidence, a lot of journals reported to this kind cheap, baseless journalism to undermine the mutt and its activities. Of course there were some journals who actually took the trouble to find ONE or TWO persons from the street, who disliked the mutt for some personal reason (possibly someone like you), and quoted them, trying to pass of these views as representative of wider public opinion.
It reminds me of a well-known western sociologist who was doing qualitative research in a non-western developing country. He is alleged to have had a general conversation on the social conditions and local politics, etc, with the driver, a local chap, while being driven to the community of his study. Later in his publication, he writes that "many people" in this society believe that sexual promiscuisoity has increased among young men and women and that premairtal sex is very common; elsewhere he writes again "people unanimously agree that moral values has declined and that this is leading to increase in perverted sexual behavior among younger generations. Basically, it turned out the driver was the "public" and this man views "the public opinion."
You seem to be resorting to the same kind of ploy, to substantiate your personal claims about the mutt. It is evident that you have grievances against the mutt for whatever reason. Fair enough; you are entitled to your likes and dislikes. But also remember that for every person you claim that dislikes the mutt, I can find at least two who love it, cherish it, and respect it even though they are NOT brahmins.
In fact, here's an anecdote for you: the person who introduced me to shankaracharya's philosophy and the kanchi mutt many decades ago was NOT a brahmin and that too NOT EVEN an upper-caste.
Well, as they say "Put that in your pipe and smoke it!"
<!--QuoteBegin-rajesh_g+Apr 5 2005, 11:52 AM-->QUOTE(rajesh_g @ Apr 5 2005, 11:52 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--> Except this is not behind your back. I asked you for your permission and you gave me the permission so its only fair that your "happy days are here again" post will show up in a few places. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And you got my permission Rocko, my Goswami man! I wouldn't have it any other way. Whats a little snitchin between friends, huh? <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
You and I know it, that you are just not the type, even with permission. Prove me wrong. <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> Anyway that was my best ever piece - I silenced the best. And I'm still celebratin' 'happy days'! You want to post it again, and perhaps, really read it, again, this time with eyes open, and paying attention to the dots and commas?
Chandrasekaran and sankara, you are new here, only this year, and I have to presume you missed this 5-month ongoing discussion and a few other connected threads. Perhaps you may want to read this thread right from the start?
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Whats a little snitchin between friends, huh?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hey we got to keep tabs on anti-hindu bigots like you. What to do ?
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->And I'm still celebratin' 'happy days'!<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your celebration was kinda hard to miss. I know you wouldnt have it any other way. For how long though ? The judges want to opt out delivering judgements now - they know the whole thing was a sham to begin with, enacted for the enjoyment of racists like you. Keep enjoying while it lasts man. Who knows how long it might last ? <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
-------------------
BTW I never understood why you took a dig at IndianCivilization on this forum in your "happy" post ? Was it at IC the yahoo list ? Or was it at IndianCivilization in general ? Please enlighten ..
The scotch flows and the dragon wafts freely till the trial. Then I stop smokin and pay attention.
I posted that piece in more than a half dozen forums; it was forwarded to a score more. No one had seen an audacious piece like this and needed their fetish thrill. <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Send emails to Rajiv Malhotra, Subhash Kak, Vishal Agarwal, Raman Khanna, Harsha Vardhan, Sandhya Jain, etc. Sandhya shouted ..'oh, what nonsense' ...but nothing more violent than that.
You'll be surprised how good Indian judges and judiciary can be. Did you think we'ed be quoting monkey judgements in our courts for the last 80 years? Indian judges wrote commanwealth law on evidence!
Yes it was the IC yahoo group. They have been discussing about my posts in several forums, somewhat unkindly, and I needed to know if there were snitchers and trolls here to pass the compliment. I got lucky! <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->You'll be surprised how good Indian judges and judiciary can be. Did you think we'ed be quoting monkey judgements in our courts for the last 80 years?
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you including those who signed on warrants against President Kalam and the Chief Justice of Indian Supreme Court itself for what a measly Rs 50K?
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Indian judges wrote commanwealth law on evidence!<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ah....so you are student of history. So you recall that a Dalit who wrote our constitution? You seem to ignore this fact when stating '<i>India takes the cake on discrimination</i>'
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->No one had seen an audacious piece like this and needed their fetish thrill<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
One word euphoria.. Internet is a weird place, without even coming across anybody in person, you can prove yourself a racist moron to thousands. If you are hell-bent on going even higher, hey who are we to stop you .. <!--emo&:o--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ohmy.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->but nothing more violent than that<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What kind of violence did you want ? Spanking ?? <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> IMHO you got issues boss, recommend getting some help..
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->You'll be surprised how good Indian judges and judiciary can be. Did you think we'ed be quoting monkey judgements in our courts for the last 80 years? Indian judges wrote commanwealth law on evidence!<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes you are right.. Are you talking about the bail judgement in favor of JS ? Or perhaps you were talking about this ??
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->ollowing this, the Judge got angry and asked:
"If the police want to get information from a person they can go to that person and question him.Without having done that, how can you send summons to him?
The prosecutor must inform the special investigation team not to focus on other matters straying from the main investigation. Any such actions of theirs will become legally invalid .
A thought arises in my mind whether to send this kind of cases related to Sankaramutt to another judge. Because there is a possibility at a later date for a complaint that I do not give statements favourable to the Government in the Sankaramatam related cases,"said the [Honorable] Justice.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Re IC group dig here..
Hey man, we are talking about the day the seer got arrested - you sure it was before or after ? Happens, happens, dreams are like that onlee.. <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-rajesh_g+Apr 12 2005, 10:45 PM-->QUOTE(rajesh_g @ Apr 12 2005, 10:45 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->You'll be surprised how good Indian judges and judiciary can be. Did you think we'ed be quoting monkey judgements in our courts for the last 80 years? Indian judges wrote commanwealth law on evidence!<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes you are right.. Are you talking about the bail judgement in favor of JS ? Or perhaps you were talking about this ??
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->ollowing this, the Judge got angry and asked:
"If the police want to get information from a person they can go to that person and question him.Without having done that, how can you send summons to him?
The prosecutor must inform the special investigation team not to focus on other matters straying from the main investigation. Any such actions of theirs will become legally invalid .
A thought arises in my mind whether to send this kind of cases related to Sankaramutt to another judge. Because there is a possibility at a later date for a complaint that I do not give statements favourable to the Government in the Sankaramatam related cases,"said the [Honorable] Justice.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Re IC group dig here..
Hey man, we are talking about the day the seer got arrested - you sure it was before or after ? Happens, happens, dreams are like that onlee.. <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am talking about a hundred years of Indian jurisprudence. I am talking about 'Majumder on Evidence' - standard text in courts and chambers in the Commanwealth. But what would you know about these?
They way I see it, the judges were right on bail. No qualms here.
Wait till the trial for the rest. I will nail you, or you me!
I have been kind here - trust me. Next time I wont.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Kanchi seer Jayendra Saraswati implicated in a theft case
UNI
Thursday, December 15, 2005Â 14:19 IST
CHENNAI: After slapped with the Sankararaman murder case and two assault cases, the high profile Kanchi Acharya Jayendra Saraswati is now being implicated in a temple jewellery and Shivalinga idol theft case, forcing him to move the Madras High Court seeking anticipatory bail.
The alleged missing of the Sivalingam and precious jewellery from the ancient Sivan temple at Periyakudi in Tiruvarur district of Tamil Nadu has stirred a hornet's nest with a former temple employee lodging a complaint against the Acharya and eight others.
The ex-temple official Suresh, who filed the complaint before the Kottur Police, alleged that the idol of Sivalingam and jewellery, including precious Navaratna diamonds, were reported missing when the Acharya was present in the temple on November 12 this year.
The temple was situated at Periyakudi, about four km from Irulneeki village, the native place of Acharya in Tiruvarur district.
Incidentally, Periyakudi was also the birth place of Acharya's father where Jayendrar had gone to the temple only to offer worship. ''The Seer spent a mere five minutes in the temple'', sources close to him told reporters.
Following the complaint, the Acharya moved the Madras High Court, seeking anticipatory bail as he apprehended arrest in the case.
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> IMHO you got issues boss, recommend getting some help..
