<!--QuoteBegin-Swamy G+Feb 27 2008, 08:08 PM-->QUOTE(Swamy G @ Feb 27 2008, 08:08 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Thanks, but that link does not work.
I like to show some friends how Unkil likes his "checks and balances". But I need little dots that I at least can connect. Else, it is just going to sound paranoid and jingo.
[right][snapback]79042[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Sorry, my post merely copied someone else's previously posted material (on IF) and that contained the old link. Harshvardan's #223's got the correct link.
Different topic.
Old news, but goes to show how the land of the free is only free for the likeminded - contrary to all grand claims. And of course, how much of the oft-touted "innocent until proven guilty" was just PR on their part...
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/12/23/a...habeas.php
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>J. Edgar Hoover sought mass arrests in 1950, document shows</b>
By Tim Weiner Published: December 23, 2007
A newly declassified document from 1950 shows that J. Edgar Hoover, the longtime director of the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation, <b>had a plan to suspend habeas corpus and imprison some 12,000 Americans he suspected of disloyalty.</b>
Hoover sent his plan to the White House on July 7, 1950, 12 days after the Korean War began. <b>It envisioned putting suspect Americans in military prisons.</b>
Hoover wanted President Harry Truman to proclaim the mass arrests necessary to "protect the country against treason, espionage and sabotage." The FBI would "apprehend all individuals potentially dangerous" to national security, Hoover's proposal said. The arrests would be carried out under "a master warrant attached to a list of names" provided by the bureau.
The names were part of an index that Hoover had been compiling for years. "The index now contains approximately twelve thousand individuals, of which approximately ninety-seven percent are citizens of the United States," he wrote. "In order to make effective these apprehensions, the proclamation suspends the Writ of Habeas Corpus."
<b>Habeas corpus, the right to seek relief from illegal detention, has been a fundamental principle of law for seven centuries. The Bush administration's decision to hold suspects for years at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, has made habeas corpus a contentious issue for the U.S. Congress and the Supreme Court.</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->More at link.
Oh drat. That little habeas corpus thingy stands in the way of the will of the US govt. Go ahead, mow it over. Big man.
Goes to show it's only a democracy when things are going according to plan. Their system is very precariously poised on the edge of a knife. Any deviation and their government becomes nervous, autocratic and comes down on people.
I'm not arguing here whether it's 'right or wrong' to incarcerate potential terrorists or whatever (I haven't given it quite as much thought as it deserves yet: "Where do individual freedoms end, or do they even have an end"... black hole) - speaking here in more general, sci-fi context, by the way.
The excerpt posted was just to illustrate the hypocrisy in all the claims/adverts made by the US govt about its country and in the one-sided accusations their Human Rights media wing hurls at other countries that exercise no such hypocrisy.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The U.S. Constitution says habeas corpus shall not be suspended "unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion, the public safety may require it." <b>The plan proposed by Hoover, the head of the FBI from 1924 to 1972, stretched that clause to include "threatened invasion" or "attack upon United States troops in legally occupied territory."</b>
Hoover's plan was declassified Friday as part of a collection of documents concerning intelligence issues from 1950 to 1955. <b>The plan called for "the permanent detention" of 12,000 suspects at military bases as well as in federal prisons.</b>
The FBI, he said, had found that the arrests it proposed in New York and California would cause the prisons there to <b>overflow. So the bureau had arranged for[B]"detention in Military facilities of the individuals apprehended" in those states.</b>
<b>The prisoners eventually would have had a right to a hearing under the Hoover plan. The hearing board would have comprised one judge and two citizens. But the hearings "will not be bound by the rules of evidence."</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yeah, because evidence is so overrated, isn't it.
arcasm
Americans should thank their stars that Hoover wasn't president. Then again, Bush is their president.... And Guantanamo Bay in <i>Cuba</i> (and Cuba is not part of America) is a reality <!--emo&
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I like to show some friends how Unkil likes his "checks and balances". But I need little dots that I at least can connect. Else, it is just going to sound paranoid and jingo.
[right][snapback]79042[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Sorry, my post merely copied someone else's previously posted material (on IF) and that contained the old link. Harshvardan's #223's got the correct link.
Different topic.
Old news, but goes to show how the land of the free is only free for the likeminded - contrary to all grand claims. And of course, how much of the oft-touted "innocent until proven guilty" was just PR on their part...
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/12/23/a...habeas.php
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>J. Edgar Hoover sought mass arrests in 1950, document shows</b>
By Tim Weiner Published: December 23, 2007
A newly declassified document from 1950 shows that J. Edgar Hoover, the longtime director of the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation, <b>had a plan to suspend habeas corpus and imprison some 12,000 Americans he suspected of disloyalty.</b>
Hoover sent his plan to the White House on July 7, 1950, 12 days after the Korean War began. <b>It envisioned putting suspect Americans in military prisons.</b>
Hoover wanted President Harry Truman to proclaim the mass arrests necessary to "protect the country against treason, espionage and sabotage." The FBI would "apprehend all individuals potentially dangerous" to national security, Hoover's proposal said. The arrests would be carried out under "a master warrant attached to a list of names" provided by the bureau.
The names were part of an index that Hoover had been compiling for years. "The index now contains approximately twelve thousand individuals, of which approximately ninety-seven percent are citizens of the United States," he wrote. "In order to make effective these apprehensions, the proclamation suspends the Writ of Habeas Corpus."
<b>Habeas corpus, the right to seek relief from illegal detention, has been a fundamental principle of law for seven centuries. The Bush administration's decision to hold suspects for years at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, has made habeas corpus a contentious issue for the U.S. Congress and the Supreme Court.</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->More at link.
Oh drat. That little habeas corpus thingy stands in the way of the will of the US govt. Go ahead, mow it over. Big man.
Goes to show it's only a democracy when things are going according to plan. Their system is very precariously poised on the edge of a knife. Any deviation and their government becomes nervous, autocratic and comes down on people.
I'm not arguing here whether it's 'right or wrong' to incarcerate potential terrorists or whatever (I haven't given it quite as much thought as it deserves yet: "Where do individual freedoms end, or do they even have an end"... black hole) - speaking here in more general, sci-fi context, by the way.
The excerpt posted was just to illustrate the hypocrisy in all the claims/adverts made by the US govt about its country and in the one-sided accusations their Human Rights media wing hurls at other countries that exercise no such hypocrisy.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The U.S. Constitution says habeas corpus shall not be suspended "unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion, the public safety may require it." <b>The plan proposed by Hoover, the head of the FBI from 1924 to 1972, stretched that clause to include "threatened invasion" or "attack upon United States troops in legally occupied territory."</b>
Hoover's plan was declassified Friday as part of a collection of documents concerning intelligence issues from 1950 to 1955. <b>The plan called for "the permanent detention" of 12,000 suspects at military bases as well as in federal prisons.</b>
The FBI, he said, had found that the arrests it proposed in New York and California would cause the prisons there to <b>overflow. So the bureau had arranged for[B]"detention in Military facilities of the individuals apprehended" in those states.</b>
<b>The prisoners eventually would have had a right to a hearing under the Hoover plan. The hearing board would have comprised one judge and two citizens. But the hearings "will not be bound by the rules of evidence."</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yeah, because evidence is so overrated, isn't it.
arcasmAmericans should thank their stars that Hoover wasn't president. Then again, Bush is their president.... And Guantanamo Bay in <i>Cuba</i> (and Cuba is not part of America) is a reality <!--emo&
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->