<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Protests against shipping canal hot up</b>
Apr 17, 2007, 3:00 GMT
Chennai, April 17 (IANS) Scientists, greens and politicians are coming together to spearhead a new wave of protests against the Sethusamudram shipping canal in the south of India, claiming dangers to environment and Hindu religious symbols.
<b>The Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) and its allies are planning demonstrations across Tamil Nadu against the dredging of the coral reef in the waters near the temple town of Rameswaram.</b>
The protest campaign has won unexpected supporters, all ganged up against a project that is a dream come true for the state's ruling DMK and its partners.
When completed, the canal will cut travel time for ships navigating between the west and east coasts of India. They will not have to circle Sri Lanka any more.
Some scientists say the coral reef between India and Sri Lanka's north, bound to be destroyed by the dredging, are proof of temperature variations the world has witnessed for thousands of years.
Environmentalists like S. Badrinarayanan, a former director of the Geological <b>Survey of India and a teacher at the National Institute of Ocean Technology in Chennai, says the layers of the reef show how the Indian Ocean waters receded and came up during several millennia.</b>
<b>'It was one land mass. Reef geology proves that when the temperatures of the oceans rose at the end of the last ice age (the last glacial), a new generation of polyps and other life forms came to inhabit the reef,' Badrinarayanan told IANS.</b>
<b>Dredging and destroying the hard reef would be destroying this 'valuable evidence' of the climate change story, he said.</b>
Former Supreme Court judge and rights activist V.K. Krishna Iyer has shot off a strongly-worded letter to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh asking him to stop the dredging south of Tamil Nadu.
Two days ago, Janata Party president Subramanian Swamy sought to meet Tamil Nadu Chief Minister M. Karunanidhi to urge him to stop the Sethu project - as it is widely known.
Swamy was refused an audience, and he promptly called Karunanidhi 'anti-Hindu'.
<b>The Janata Party leader says the 'Ramar Sethu' - the land bridge apparently built by an army of monkeys to link India with Sri Lanka - was in use as recently as 1480 and he would take the authorities to court over the dredging.</b>
The Indian government and its ministry of shipping, led by DMK minister T.R. Baalu, is digging a 83-km canal linking the Palk Strait, which divides India and Sri Lanka, with the Gulf of Mannar at a present cost of Rs.25 billion.
The canal is expected to save 402 nautical miles of travel between India's west and east coasts but does not allow passage of ships of more than 10 m draught.
Justice Krishna Iyer's letter to the prime minister is accompanied by a number of research papers and expert comments on the reef and its heritage value. The project would be detrimental to India's territorial interests, his letter says.
'Our nation will be weaker and may suffer new dangers with American presence in the Sethusamudram waters by doing what for centuries has never been considered necessary or feasible or in any manner advantageous to us,' Iyer has said.
A 1747 map made in the Netherlands and known as the Malabar-Bowen Map shows the land connection between Rameswaram and Sri Lanka.
A 1788 edition of the map called Map of Hindoostan or the Mughal Empire, available in the Saraswati Mahal Library in Thanjavur and made by James Rennell, the first surveyor general of East India Company, also shows a land route between Rameswaram and Talaimannar tagged 'Ramar Bridge'.
The Akhil Bharat Hindu Mahasabha has drafted Shankaracharya Jayendra Saraswathi as its mentor in the protests. This will pit the controversial pontiff against the powerful DMK.
The demand for the reef to be declared a UNESCO protected heritage site is only growing.
The Gulf of Mannar is one of the world's unique bio-reserves, containing 3,600 species of life forms, some of them on the verge of extinction.
Here is the corner that the BJP/ RSS have worked themselves into:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Survey of India and a teacher at the National Institute of Ocean Technology in Chennai, says the layers of the reef show how the Indian Ocean waters receded and came up during several millennia.
'<b>It was one land mass. Reef geology proves that when the temperatures of the oceans rose at the end of the last ice age (the last glacial), a new generation of polyps and other life forms came to inhabit the reef,' Badrinarayanan told IANS.</b>
<b>Dredging and destroying the hard reef would be destroying this 'valuable evidence' of the climate change story</b>, he said.
......
<b>The Janata Party leader says the 'Ramar Sethu' - the land bridge apparently built by an army of monkeys to link India with Sri Lanka - was in use as recently as 1480 and he would take the authorities to court over the dredging</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So unless the Vanara Sena was composed entirely of whatever composed "reef" during the Ice Ages, the BJP has worked itself into declaring that this is a NATURAL formation - and at the same time it was "man-made".
Wouldn't it be accurate, then, to conclude that the BJP's idea of Humans is
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> Something with the brain of a reef-forming micro-organism<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->???
Just curious.... <!--emo&:guitar--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/guitar.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='guitar.gif' /><!--endemo-->
They need to decide WHY they are opposed to dredging the canal.
1. It is a NATURAL FORMATION, formed in the Ice Age, and hence gives valuable data on Global Warming?
(So does measuring the thermal plumes rising from a political convention where they mix religion into politics, by the way..)
2. It is a MAN-MADE formation which is an integral part of Hindu history, and dredging the top 6 meters out in the middle of the sea beyond where anyone ever wants to go see it, would irreparably destroy the fragile heritage of Hinduism?
Right now the propaganda is falling cleanly into the Pu Sagar between these two completely divergent "bridges".
Which is what usually happens when the true intent of the propaganda is not either of these, but just to make a lot of noise.
Husky claims that the finding of HARD ROCK is "irrelevant", which shows how much Husty understands or cares about what is actually there. Oh, BUT.. it must not be disturbed...
When I started posting on this thread I was just trying to understand what the fuss was about, but now that we see the "arguments" of "Bodhi" and "Husky" I understand all right. They haven't decided what the fuss is about, but they have been commanded to make a fuss. <!--emo&:whistle--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='whistle.gif' /><!--endemo-->
You both seem to be on a crusade to convince people that saving Ram-Sethu is a worthless cause. Your reasoning being 1) It is a natural structure that is unrelated to Rama 2) Even if it was the actual Ram-Sethu, it had served its purpose and can be demolished. Your stated motivation is that Hindus are wasting resources in this project which can be better utilised. Can I ask what bothers you enough to engage in constructive discussion? Kanchi arrest? Christian subversive activities? Islamic terrorism? What?
From what Bodhi has posted, I think there is enough evidence that this UPA govt is trying to get this structure demolished, the latest proposal going around Dhanushkoti seems to attest to that. Going by this govt's track record, this itself warrants a closer look at the evidence. Many hindus believe that this Bridge was built by Rama/Vanara sena (and squirrels!). That is reason enough to save it.
If you think it is not worth it, feel free to make better use of your time, but keep off this topic.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->They (BJP) need to decide WHY they are opposed to dredging the canal. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->They merely gave additional reasons for why it should be preserved. Having noticed that the present 'Indian' govt is anti-Hindu, the BJP and others realised the primary reason wasn't going to cut it with the govt at all (see shortly below for 3rd repeat of this reason).
The pro-Sethu side is just indicating that there are many valid reasons to preserve it, and hopes that at least one of them appeals to the nasty govt.
Primary reason: As I've said all along, the Ramar Sethu is of great significance to Hindus. That's really all that matters. It's all that need matter. And it is in this respect that I keep stressing that what it's made of and the like is irrelevant. (It would be interesting to know, but only if non-destructive methods could be used to find out.)
Though unfortunate that you find the main reason so hard to understand,
04-18-2007, 09:05 AM (This post was last modified: 04-18-2007, 08:50 PM by Bodhi.)
to Post 33, part response part reflection.
It is not expected of the writer of that post to be familiar, but I am certain a majority on this forum would remember this most beautiful tale of Bhagwan Gautama Buddha from Akosha Sutra of Vinaya Pitaka.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"Thus it was heard. Having heard all the abuses of Akosha from Bharadwaj gotra, Gautama spoke, say Bhardwaja, did relatives visit you ever? Bharadwaja said yes sometimes. Gautama said then did you bring sweets for them, or other food? Bharadwaja said yes sometimes. But, if they partake not, what you offer, said Gautama, what do you do? I take it back and eat it, said Akosha. Even so, said Gautama, you offered us these abuses Akosha Bharadwaja, which we partake not and offer to others not. So, you alone and no one else, you alone eat these what you offered. These belong to you, and go back from us uneaten, all these that you had brought, said Gautama."
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now, from the obviousely fake Bodhi, this is my final and last response to you, whatever name you prefer to choose.
I have done nothing purposefully to offend you or anyone else on the forum. If I really did something, please know that it was never due to contempt, nor any remorse. Why do I even care what you think or say or do? But if it still hurts, I apologize. As to your threats of getting me banned, you mean on India Forum right? Please be my guest. My purpose of visiting this forum for last few months, since I discovered it, has primarily been reading the wonderful information that some of the posters make here, which can not be 'banned'. So no offense in that at all, if moderators agree with you. Lastly, may Anjaniputra Sri Hanuman have some mercy upon you. Message to you ends here.
To Husky: please dont waste your Parasurama-grade energy in burning these weeds. Please keep it for higher purposes. All this person wants is very petty diversion and sabotage of the thread. Let him do what he does, have mercy on him - just ignore. Deserves no better or worse than ignoring.
Of course, those who have to, shall keep doing all that they can and should, to protest against the evil and sinister designs these rakshasas have on Rama Setu. Single and simple reason. We believe it is our precious heritage, our ancient most civilizational symbol (man-made or natural - upto the beholder). And there is not even one compelling reason to destroy it.
Back to the business:
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>If someone has not yet signed the protest petition, please do so here: http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/s...gi?ramsetu . Also <b>kindly let others in your network know</b> about this. At least squirrels can do this much for Setu, if not more. more ways to protest and information can be had at http://BridgeOfRam.com/ </span>
Bodhi/N3/Husky: You are all Sr Members of this forum and we certainly expect more than what's being displayed here. All your id's are your choices and falls perfectly within the guidelines of forum, so any more on discussion on this is off limits here.
Neelan: My advice to new members is to lurk around a bit, understand where the discussion originated and where different postors are coming from. Don't stir the pot too hard as a newbie.
All: Mudy's pointed out that this name calling has to be stopped and unfortunately, it's not. At this point, we don't want to lock this thread because of this bickering as we've been down that path before. This is a important topic dear to many in India and it deals with several factors (spiritual/religious/economic/strategic security/political etc) - sometimes one in conflict with other and it's understandable. Can't we discuss each of them without attacking one another?
To bring this back on track, Bodhi/Husky, please stick to posting news reports and data from external sources and feel free to offer your 2 paises when needed. N3 and Neelan, any critisism should be directed to the data pointed, not postors themselves. It's the only way I can think of keeping some civility in this thread. Or I can restrict this thread to one post a day per member. Bodhi/Husky/N3: any comments, offline please - you 3 have my email.
Any further posts with verbal assaults on each other will be deleted. Thread will remain open - in fact I might try to retrieve older thread from database for news postors likes of Neelan who jump in.
With this wonderful response as to why factual comments were deleted AFTER THEY APPEARED on a BLOG, we can resume discussion of the Rama Sethu project and the propaganda opposing it.
In fact, it is very good of the admins to preserve the posts on this thread, as it shows why it is so difficult to get anything useful out of "Hindu" discussions.
Sample:
Question:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Then they delete all the posts made by anyone who does not bow to their superstitions on their "open" BLOGs. (Shades of Dorky D'Souza there, hey, 'Bodhi'?)<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Response:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->It's a moderated blog. Many blogs are moderated, like rajeev2004 - comments are posted if they're approved.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And then the postor shows that wonderfully logical dedication to honesty so typical of the Holiest... because the question was not about posts which were not "approved" prior to posting, but those which were DELETED despite having nothing offensive there except that facts offend certain people:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> Besides, I'm the one who personally requested Bodhi to keep the comments out of his blog. <b>It was either that or I was going to call disease control on you. (Heard they're not so nice, so you ought to thank Bodhi for saving you.</b>)<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That was about posts which, last I saw them, were showing pictures from the internet on the desperate poverty in Rameshwaram, and giving accounts from people who have actually gone there.
Glad to hear that "Husky" is a "Senior Member" of IF. <!--emo&:clapping--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/clap.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='clap.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:clapping--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/clap.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='clap.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And as for "Srini" above, ... never mind. Nothing worth saying. But let me quote what evidently meets Moderator approval as "reasoned discussion" on the topic, since it survived two Moderators' appearance on the thread with no comment:
Arre Wah! CIVILIZED! <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo--> So Perfectly HINDU a response! <!--emo&:clapping--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/clap.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='clap.gif' /><!--endemo--> Such a RAMABHAKTAN! <!--emo&:guitar--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/guitar.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='guitar.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:guitar--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/guitar.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='guitar.gif' /><!--endemo-->
When Srini displays maturity to the level of a 3-year-old (that may be a few Janmams from now) will be early enough to try to explain tho him how to read.
Just out of curiosity, are you guys/gals/others able to get some glimmer on why you invariably lose arguments, and are widely regarded as ranters and losers?
Let me be a bit more clearer....<b>No discussions about individuals or what happened in which blog going forward in this thread</b>.
What's been traded before will stay till postors voluntarily clean their own posts. Or time permitting moderators will clean up portions of posts not relevant to Setu.
Viren: Thanks for pointing out that discussions on postor identity is off-limits. That is a fundamental tenet of any internet discussion: those who use the internet to intrude into other people's lives are basically terrorists. When this is done OBVIOUSLY as retaliation for disagreeing with nonsense, it is malicious, petty, and downright stinks.
Bottom line: Neither "Bodhi" nor "Husky" nor the latest addition, "Srini" show the slightest intention of stopping their habit of launching personal attacks and trying to invade the privacy of postors, despite repeated requests.
"Stopping further... " is not going to be any good - the violation of guidelines is still verymuch there in the posts by Bodhi, Husky and now Srini.
Are these postors capable of basic civilized behavior, or are they not? Let's base that discussion on their posts:
In fact, it is very good of the admins to preserve the posts on this thread, as it shows why it is so difficult to get anything useful out of "Hindu" discussions.
Sample:
Question:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Then they delete all the posts made by anyone who does not bow to their superstitions on their "open" BLOGs. (Shades of Dorky D'Souza there, hey, 'Bodhi'?)<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Response:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->It's a moderated blog. Many blogs are moderated, like rajeev2004 - comments are posted if they're approved.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And then the postor shows that wonderfully logical dedication to honesty so typical of the Holiest... because the question was not about posts which were not "approved" prior to posting, but those which were DELETED despite having nothing offensive there except that facts offend certain people:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> Besides, I'm the one who personally requested Bodhi to keep the comments out of his blog. <b>It was either that or I was going to call disease control on you. (Heard they're not so nice, so you ought to thank Bodhi for saving you.</b>)<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That was about posts which, last I saw them, were showing pictures from the internet on the desperate poverty in Rameshwaram, and giving accounts from people who have actually gone there. The posts asked why there has been no move to ameliorate this situation, if Rameswaram is indeed a place that is holy to Hindus.
Glad to hear that "Husky" is a "Senior Member" of IF. <!--emo&:clapping--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/clap.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='clap.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:clapping--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/clap.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='clap.gif' /><!--endemo--> Can't beat that as advertisement for Forum quality.... unless Srini is also a Senior Member. It MUST be quite an honor to be one of the Senior Members...
With this wonderful response as to why factual comments were deleted AFTER THEY APPEARED on a BLOG, we can resume discussion of the Rama Sethu project and the propaganda opposing it.
Which brings us to "Srini" above. Let me quote what evidently meets Moderator approval as "reasoned discussion" on the topic, since it survived two Moderators' appearance on the thread with no comment:
Arre Wah! CIVILIZED! <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo--> So Perfectly HINDU a response! <!--emo&:clapping--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/clap.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='clap.gif' /><!--endemo--> Such a RAMABHAKTAN! <!--emo&:guitar--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/guitar.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='guitar.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:guitar--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/guitar.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='guitar.gif' /><!--endemo-->
When Srini displays maturity to the level of a 3-year-old (that may be a few Janmams from now) will be early enough to try to explain tho him how to read.
Just out of curiosity, are you guys/gals/others able to get some glimmer on why you invariably lose arguments, and are widely regarded as ranters and losers?
It takes very little effort to show you up as what u r - it's easier than digging in the sand at Dhanushkodi and striking salt water.
<!--QuoteBegin-narayanan+Apr 18 2007, 10:37 AM-->QUOTE(narayanan @ Apr 18 2007, 10:37 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->
Arre Wah! CIVILIZED! <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo--> So Perfectly HINDU a response! <!--emo&:clapping--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/clap.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='clap.gif' /><!--endemo--> Such a RAMABHAKTAN! <!--emo&:guitar--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/guitar.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='guitar.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:guitar--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/guitar.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='guitar.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You seem to be hurt and in a lot of pain. Well, WALK IT OFF. So long. <!--emo&:flush--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Flush.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='Flush.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Thank you, viren and mudy. I am indeed most inspired and instructed by the Senior Members of this Forum.
Now the problem I have with this agitation against a long-delayed and very needed project, is that the RATIONALE for the opposition keeps shifting, sort-of like the sandbanks of the Palk Straits, aka the Sethusamudram. Let me summarize:
1. There was opposition to dredging near the Sri Lankan coast, because that would disrupt marine sanctuary on that side.
2. There was opposition to dredging near the Indian coast, because that would disrupt marine sanctuary on that side.
3. After much consideration by the project engineers and others, they picked alternative routes circa 1964, but the suggested route that came across the Pamban was abandoned after the December 1964 cyclone changed the entire topography there, and perhaps the new road-cum-rail bridge cannot be raised to accomodate large ships. I don't see other reasons why this was abandoned.
4. Someone started quoting the tsunami expert, Dr. Tad Murty, after the December 2004 tsunami, distorting what he said, and trying to twist it into opposition to the project. Dr. Murthy had wondered if it might be a good idea to turn the northern entrance towards the WEST. But someone wrote this into an article claiming that he had asked for it to be turned towards the EAST, and offering to explain why. <!--emo&:guitar--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/guitar.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='guitar.gif' /><!--endemo-->
5. Then we heard that the objection was to the destruction of the central portion (deepest under the sea), since there was PROOF from NASA images that this was man-made. However it was not very clear WHICH NASA images were being referred to. A senior spokesperson of the RSS said that the images were from 1966 and then from 1994, but then someone else claimed they were from 2004 (this may have been the PhotoShop edition, I wouldn't know). Now we are told that NASA has not responded to requests to decide which image it was... <!--emo&:clapping--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/clap.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='clap.gif' /><!--endemo-->
6. There was much concern expressed about a Sri Lankan Navy attack on Indian fishermen. This was privately attributed to LTTE propaganda, but then suddenly it was seen as PROOF that if the SSC came up, Sri Lanka would take over the entire Palk Straits, and Indian fishermen would not be allowed to go into the deep sea. This was accompanied by much sorrow about the fate of Indian fisheries and fish sanctuaries, and of the whales that were dying from collisions with ships, due to the project. There was deep concern that the efflux from ships, and their very passage through the ocean, would terribly pollute the whole place. <!--emo&:flush--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Flush.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='Flush.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I thought this was all very interesting, since the SSC would ALLOW Indian Navy boats with substantial draught to traverse the Palk Strait, thereby making it much more difficult for Sri Lankan Navy or LTTE to run their writ there and terrorize Indian fishermen any more.
6. Then we heard the recommendation that the channel be shifted again to the Pamban. I had to wonder what happened to the Marine Sanctuary, and why the passage of large ships so close to shore would be good for local fishermen and their fish farms.
7. Then we heard that the whole objection was to the destruction of the central Bridge, (deepest under the sea) which, being clearly man-made, was integral to Hindu Tradition. I heard the call for the UN to take it over and declare it a UNESCO World Heritage Center, and I wondered about the advisability of bringing the UN to run something at so strategic and sensitive a place. <!--emo&:grenade--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grenade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='grenade.gif' /><!--endemo-->
8. Most recently, we read the objection to the project from an authority on Global Warming. He "proved" that the Rama Sethu was a NATURAL structure, made of fossilized dead fish or micro-organisms and a solid rock formation. In the same article, someone else was claiming that this was a MAN-MADE structure.
Apparently, then those who oppose the project are slightly confused, to put it mildly. They seem to have "got the word" to OPPOSE the project, but not WHY. They also seem to deem it their holdy duty to launch personal attacks and threats against anyone who questions their logic, but that's obviously a verboten topic on which one is verboten to comment.
Above, I see that the only reason needed for some people is "it is important to Hindu tradition". Who decided that? And on what basis?
What is the answer to the question of why the central part is under 6 to 9 meters of water, and thereafter is solid rock, while the western end is very much ABOVE water, but people have dredged the Pamban canal, and scratched it to lay heavy rail and road links already?
Important to Hindu tradition, yes, but so is every inch of India. Should we prohibit all digging? No roads should be built in the Himalayas because they are the holy seat of Shri Shiva and Parvathy? (IOW, leave it to the PLA to have monopoly on road-building, and we have monopoly on belly-aching)?
Should we leave it to the Sri Lankan Navy to dredge the SSC where they please? Or in a joint project with the PLN? Will "Hindu" objections deter those?
Lots of questions, and clearly, some people here are VERY uncomfortable to have these questions discussed in the open. Interesting indeed....
[EDITED: You have made your point point so let it stand on it's own. No need to start discussing other forum members.]
04-19-2007, 03:05 AM (This post was last modified: 04-19-2007, 05:58 AM by Hauma Hamiddha.)
Here is a site which is probably also run by those opposed to this project but not on the same grounds as the ppl here. So it is a site for some useful points.
Here is another force to unite with Hindus on the opposition to the project:
http://www.sethusamudram.in/Home.htm
<!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<b>
Neelan- you are free to criticize the issues of the opponents of the SSP as much as you want. However there is no place for ad hominem attacks or sweeping statements about Hindus being united against SSP or otherwise. Evidently you do not represent all Hindus on this forum or elsewhere.</b>
Sorry - I was not aware of any ad hominem attacks or sweeping statements about Hindu unity in the previous post, but anyway if such an impression was conveyed, my apologies. Certainly no intention of trying to represent anyone but myself.
It IS instructive, however, to review the genesis of the opposition to the project. Here is one article from 2004.
CUDDALORE, SEPT. 16. The way public hearings on the Sethusamudram project are disrupted in some districts creates a suspicion that a behind-the-scenes conspiracy is on to thwart the scheme, S. Ramadoss, Pattali Makkal Katchi leader, said today.
Addressing a press conference here, he said the confusion at the sessions in Nagapattinam and Pudukottai made one suspect manipulations from above, he said.
<b>In the overall interests of Tamil Nadu, this project ought to be executed, and none should politicise it or derive political mileage. Those who tried to stall the project would be branded "Sri Lankan agents" working against the welfare of Tamil Nadu, </b>Dr. Ramadoss said.
Call for cooperation
"<b>Let the Chief Minister, Jayalalithaa, take credit for making the project materialise. But let her cooperate with the Centre for taking the project to fruition."</b>
COIMBATORE, SEPT. 16. The DMK president, M.Karunanidhi, last night made an impassioned appeal that the Sethusamudram project, which would bring prosperity to Tamil Nadu, be not sabotaged.
In a 20-minute speech at a public meeting held to mark the end of the party's Mupperum Vizha, he dismissed the claim by the Chief Minister, Jayalalithaa, that it was because of her that the project found a mention in the National Agenda for Governance in 1998 when the All-India Anna Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam was in alliance with the Bharaiya Janata Party.
He contended that it was only because of the DMK that the National Democratic Alliance agreed in 1999 to have on its agenda not only a national water policy to effectively settle river water disputes and link the Ganga and the Cauvery but also the Sethusamudram project. However, despite the promise made by the then Prime Minister, Vajpayee, to the Marumalarchi Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam leader, Vaiko, the project did not take off, Mr. Karunanidhi said.
Ultimately, it was the United Progressive Alliance Government, which gave the green signal and allotted funds for the Rs 2,000-crore project.
While expressing confidence that Ms.Jayalalithaa was also in favour of the project because of her current claims, he said some people were trying to "sabotage" it" after acting as if they are supporting it".
"I beseech you not to damage and ruin the proposal and prevent the project from becoming a reality".
Mr. Karunanidhi also allayed fears that the project would ruin. coral reefs and affect fishermen On the other hand, Tamil Nadu would be immensely benefited, he asserted.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>The Sethusamudram canal project, conceived 138 years ago, will be taken up within a few months, Defence Minister George Fernandes announced on Wednesday.
Speaking about the "dream-come-true project" after an aerial survey of the site, Fernandes told reporters at Kodandaramarkoil, 8km from Madurai, that the canal would be constructed in two phases.</b>
To be laid 99.88 nautical miles from Tuticorin through the Gulf of Mannar, it will reduce the cost of shipping substantially, besides earning foreign exchange.
Fernandes said <b>the prime minister had committed himself to execute the project for the benefit of the country in general and the southern states in particular</b>. And the job had been entrusted to him.
Karnataka, Kerala, Andhra Pradesh, Tamil Nadu and the Centre will share the cost, which may be anywhere between Rs 7.65 billion and Rs 12 billion.
Fernandes said the project would be completed in six years. Under the first phase covering 44 nautical miles, the task of dredging down to a depth of 31 feet will be taken up at a cost of Rs 7.65 million and completed in four years. Dredging to a depth of 35 feet will be taken up in the second phase.
He said the government would decide shortly whether to execute the work on a 'build, operate, transfer' basis through private participation or through an authority or corporation on the lines of the Konkan Railway.
He felt the setting up of a corporation would be more beneficial, with 49 per cent equity participation by the Centre and an equal percentage by the southern states.
Ruling out any foreign funding for the project, he said only technical help would be used.
Once the project is completed, both Tuticorin and Madras will become nodal ports, the minister said. Then, the distance from Cape Comorin to Madras will be reduced from 755 nautical miles to 402, and to Visakhapatnam from 1,014 to 719 nautical miles. From Tuticorin to Calcutta, the distance will come down from 1,371 nautical miles to 1,031.
The minister was accompanied by Commodore Madan, naval officer in charge, Tamil Nadu, and Commodore K V Subramaniam, Commandant, Coast Guard (East), Madras.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Mass fast against Sethusamudram canal project
Thursday, 14 December 2006 | http://www.nerve.in/news:25350027319 | channel: India
"Meanwhile, the Tamil Nadu government has announced that a study has been undertaken on the consequences of the project for the coral reefs and marine life in the dredging area. The study is being conducted by four researchers of the Annamalai University from on board a research vessel. "
Chennai, Dec 14 - A mass hunger strike will be held Friday against the Sethusamudram Shipping Canal project by organisations claiming the venture had been cleared without the requisite environmental go ahead.
<b>The Movement Against Sethusamudram Shipping Canal (MASSC), a coalition of organisations opposing the project</b>, in a statement said that the project had been launched in violation of earlier assurances.
The Rs.12 billion Sethusamudram Ship Canal Project on the coast of Tamil Nadu entails the dredging of a 167 km-canal across the Gulf of Mannar, linking it to the Palk Bay.
The MASSC says the Prime Minister's Office (PMO) had said the centre would clear the project only after expert reports were available on environmental consequences of dredging and the changes in the project that the 2004 Tsunami called for. 'But the clearance has been given without these reports,' it said.
'The Tamil Nadu government and the central government have not, to date, released either photographs or videos of the sites of excavation and dredging and work on the new canal,' suggesting non-transparency in project implementation, the statement said.
It said that 'at the present rate of work', the project will need another 15 years to be completed. 'This will entail considerable cost overruns.'
Union Shipping and Transport Minister T.R. Baalu this week inaugurated the 35-km dredging in Adam's Bridge area (a set of coral reefs) off Rameswaram and announced that ships will move through the canal in 2008.
Meanwhile, the Tamil Nadu government has announced that a study has been undertaken on the consequences of the project for the coral reefs and marine life in the dredging area. The study is being conducted by four researchers of the Annamalai University from on board a research vessel.
The canal, the government says, will facilitate sea travel between the East and West coasts of India without ships having to go around the southern tip of Sri Lanka and save 350 nautical miles of travel. The canal was first envisioned by A.D Taylor, a British engineer, in 1860 but dredging began only in 2005. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->MOVEMENT AGAINST SETHUSAMUDRAM (SEA CHANNEL) SHIPPING CANAL PROJECT
Sethusamudram Shipping (Sea Channel) Canal Project is unscientific, environmentally destructive and economically unviable
Movement against the SSCP
2005
Movement against the SSCP<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
One way to figure it out is from where that was posted:
<b>ESSF is an association for international solidarity</b>. Covering a wide range of topics, our website offers <b>militant information on many struggles and campaigns</b>, as well as in-depth articles, elements of debates, documents of varied types. We would like it to become a useful tool <b>for all those who are fighting for a world of solidarity</b>.
Our website was opened publicly at the end of September 2005, with about 450 articles, though still unevenly distributed by topics or countries. New documents will be regularly added: updates on current events, introduction of new topics, complementary articles, and also early-written texts that restitute the memory and history of movements, struggles and debates.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The pending Sethusamudram Shipping Canal Project may increase the productivity of the Jaffna Harbour positively. Enlargement of the harbour will bring benefits to Sri Lanka. The strategic advantages derive from obtaining a navigable sea route close to the coast, with a reduction in travel distance of more than 350 nautical miles (650 km) (for larger ships). The project is expected to provide a boost to the economic and industrial development of coastal Tamil Nadu in India. The project will be of particular significance to Jaffna, Kankesanthurai, Mannar, Point Pedro and Tuticorin harbour.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Sethusamudram Shipping Channel Project (SSCP) will prevent the LTTE`s Sea Tigers from indulging in maritime terrorism, an Indian expert has said.
Speaking at a national seminar in Kozhikode (Kerala) on the $560-million SSCP on Tuesday, V. Suryanarayan, Professor for Maritime Studies and Research at Calicut University, said the channel will enhance India`s defence capabilities.
He said the LTTE`s military preparations need to be looked into. The emergence of Sea Tigers as a credible fighting force in India`s maritime neighbourhood has to be analysed in the context of changing strategic environment, especially in the Palk Bay, the objectives of the Sea Tigers, and the likely dangers posed by maritime terrorism.
The channel will enhance and facilitate the presence and movement of the Indian Navy and Coast Guard, and put an effective check on the activities of the Sea Tigers in the region, Prof. Suryanarayan explained.
Participating in the seminar, Indian Coast Guard`s Deputy Director General Prabhakaran Paleri said, a direct benefit from the channel will be the ability of Naval and Coast Guard vessels to cross over from India`s east coast to the west coast and vice versa in a shorter period of time because they do not need to go round Sri Lanka.
In times of emergency, the Navy and the Coast Guard can mobilize more vessels and men in a shorter span of time, other speakers said.
Participants pointed out that the channel will provide a major boost to coastal shipping and promote the emergence of Tuticorin harbour as a hub on the Indian east coast. Besides, it offers a direct link between the Bay of Bengal and the Arabian Sea through the Palk Bay ' entirely in Indian territorial waters.
Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh had laid the channel`s foundation stone on July 2. The Dredging Corporation of India (DCI) began dredging work on the same day on a 13.57km stretch of seabed at Point Calimere coast off Nagapattinam in Palk Strait. So far, it has dredged 200,000 cubic metres. Union Shipping Minister TR Baalu says that, at this rate, the DCI may complete the work of dredging 13.5 million cubic metres in 20 months, instead of the allotted 24 months.
Dredging the remaining 69mcm at Adam`s Bridge and Palk Strait will require greater expertise.
Global bids have since been floated for dredging at three sites. Tender documents will have to be submitted by end-August. Bids have been invited by dividing the work into four legs: two at Adam`s Bridge (across 11km and 24.05km), and two at Palk Strait (across 40.86km and 13.57km). Successful bidders will start dredging work by November.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And who else was protesting?
Local protest to follow Indian on Sethusamudram Project
Tuesday, 23 August 2005 - 4:46 AM SL Time
A National campaign against the Sethusamudram Shipping Canal Project with the participation of fishing communities, environmentalists and community-based organizations will be held opposite the Fort Railway Station next Wednesday.
Organised by the National Movement Against Sethusamudram Shipping Canal Project (NMSSCP) the protest is a part of the bilateral campaign against the SSCP in Sri Lanka and India.
A petition highlighting the objections against the SSCP would be handed over to the Indian High Commissioner Nirupama Rao following the protest, organisers said.
Meanwhile, a demonstration was held at Arakattuthurai in the Nagapattinam district in Southern India against the SSCP last week.
Nearly 750 volunteers of the Movement Against Sethusamudram Ship Canal project and fishermen joined the demonstration, raising slogans against the project which they said was ruining the livelihood of fishermen.
An attempt by the volunteers and fishermen to go into the sea off Arakattuthurai in 200 fiberglass boats and block the dredging work there was averted by the Police.
The project is claimed to cause great damage to the marine eco-system in the Gulf of Mannar, including the National Marine Biological Reserve which houses some 3,600 species of plants and animals including a number of important species of corals.
The whole area is biologically rich and is rated among the highly productive seas of the world. The coral reefs in the gulf houses nearly 750 fish varieties with nearly 800,000 fishermen from both countries being dependent on these resources.
The most far-fetched and the worst prediction had been made by the <b>Tamil Human Rights and Environmentalist group, Manitham</b>. Manitham in its interim report on SSCP had predicted that half of Jaffna peninsula and nearly 85 islands on the Western and North Western coasts of Sri Lanka and half of Rameswaram would go under the sea if the Miocene era lime stone reef link between the Jaffna peninsula and Rameswaram is to be broken by dredging.
I KNEW IT! If People's Republic of Columbia University has a website on it, the question to ask about all the protests is
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> QUI BONO???<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And out comes the answer: Those who gain from "organizing" the poor fishermen on the TN coast to agitate against anything that might actually improve their lives and bring them opportunity.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In a similar case of environmental fraud, the Ministry cleared the
massive Sethusamudram Ship Canal along the Tamilnadu coastline,
disregarding appeals and protests from fisherfolk that this project
would destroy the spawning grounds and thus adversely affect the
livelihoods of about 10 lakhs fishing people on both the Indian and Sri
Lankan coasts. Various research institutes questioned the very
scientific credibility of the Environment Impact Assessments produced
by National Environmental Engineering Research Institute, and pointed
out that the assessment had not even considered the impact of a Tsunami,
should the canal funnel the waves into a more destructive impact than
what was tragically experienced last December. Questions of financially
unviability of the project were simply brushed aside too. Environmental
Public Hearings became terrain to terrorise communities demanding more
information on the project, despite which the Ministry proceeded to
grant environmental clearance.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>AID-INDIA. aka ALLAHS FOR INDIA'S DESTRUCTION</span></b>
JOIN THE PROTEST! SUPPORT THE COMMUNIST REVOLUTION! PARROT WHAT THE COMMUNISTS SAY! :
The Commies and the LTTE have been wanting to cause trouble in this region and delay this project for decades. They finally got desperate enough in 2005/2006 because the project was actually moving ... and set up the trap for the u-no-hus to walk in and accelerate the protests and become the expendables in the agitation.
It is soooooo easy to get some people to join a bandwagon - just have to mention something vague about "Hindu tradition.... Ram ... Krishna....Hanuman... " and then sit back and tv <!--emo&:tv--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tv_feliz.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tv_feliz.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:roll--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ROTFL.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ROTFL.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:roll--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ROTFL.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ROTFL.gif' /><!--endemo-->
04-19-2007, 09:00 AM (This post was last modified: 04-19-2007, 09:13 AM by Husky.)
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Those who gain from "organizing" the poor fishermen on the TN coast to agitate against anything that might actually improve their lives and bring them opportunity.
Here it is!
[...]
AID-INDIA. aka ALLAHS FOR INDIA'S DESTRUCTION
JOIN THE PROTEST! SUPPORT THE COMMUNIST REVOLUTION! PARROT WHAT THE COMMUNISTS SAY! :
The Commies and the LTTE have been wanting to cause trouble in this region and delay this project for decades. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Are you really arguing now for "islamics, communists and christos (LTTE) are opposed to the SSCP so Hindus should quit supporting preservation of Sethu?" <!--emo&:blink:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
According to your logic, if I were to see a christian donating to a 'Save the Panda' effort, I should ask the collectors to give me back the money I had donated.
What do I care that christoislamicommunists have whatever reasons to coincidentally be supporting the same cause: that of preventing the government from proceeding with their current config for the SSCP? (LTTE and AID would be opposing all configurations I think.) It doesn't in any way negate or reduce how badly I want the govt to stop in its designs against Ramar Sethu.
Christoislamicommunist meddling in this should not matter to other Hindus either. Hindus should oppose this project as it now stands, because the target is Ramar Sethu - it should be of concern to us for that reason.
Even if there were no ecological questions, even if it would have no impact on fishermen and even if it were not going to contribute in reducing casualty during tsunamis - it doesn't matter. Ramar Sethu ought to be preserved because it is of immense importance to Hindus.
Christoislamicommunists will always do what they want, their plans might or might not align with what we wish to do - but their (non-)involvement in anything should not stop us from pursuing matters pertaining to our own interest.
You keep questioning why the BJP or various Hindu orgs are listing different reasons for preserving the Sethu. I've told you why: in the hope against hope that any one of these reasons may appeal to the government and save it.
But am now wondering why you keep listing different reasons each time for <i>not</i> saving the Sethu, with only the latest being: 'the islamics and commies at AID and LTTE are doing it, so we shouldn't'.
