promises to be a good discussion.
1. <!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->how, for example, does the body of Bhojpuri Poetry (of which you may be a Master) compare with that of Urdu Poetry? ... how many times have you heard a Bundelkhandi couplet quoted? ...
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Depends upon what company you keep. Naresh Ji and Mudy Ji in a jovial mood have been saying this differently - language of Muzra and Kotha they said - but let me say this with a little more serious tone.
Which language you will use will determine what will be the content, to a large extent. Urdu has been for a long time a language which is used for brand "shayari", and will carry romantic shringar rasa. While Urdu does also have other Rasa-s and sanskaras, but it can not be denied that Shringaar rasa - both samyog and viyog moods is what dominates Urdu for ages, and in a popular content.
Now let us turn to native languages- Braja, Awadhi etc. Couplet, or original term of it, 'dohaa', is primarily a heritage of native braja-bhasha and awadhi-bhasha. Please remember Rahim Das Ji, and his awesome collection of doha-s in braja and awadhi. Those were original and immortal couplets which are quoted many many more times than any number of ash-aar of farsi-nishtha-urdu. Even today rahimdas-ji's neeti-dohas are very common. Much more succesful and long lasting impression than any Urdu "couplets".
Since you seem familiar, let me just quote the first National Poet, predecessor of Shri Dinakar Ji - Sri Maithili Sharan Gupta, on what he says is the purpose of poetry in his view-point:
kyon aaj ramcharitmanas sab kaheen sammanya hai?
satkaavya-yug usame param aadarsha kaa praadhanya hai.
keval manoranjan na kavita-karma hona chahiye?
usame uchit upadesh ka bhee marma hona chahiye
{Why is Ramcharitmanas everywhere so respected?
because it carries the era of 'Sat'-poetry in it, and supreme are ideals in it,
only entertainment - should that be the poetry's duty?
no! it must also be propogator of balanced and right narrative}
Just like RCM of Awadhi, same thing can be said about Bhojpuri, Maithili and others. I hope you have enjoyed the immortat poetry of Vidyapati, or Bihari? But I doubt, because if someone has seriousely enjoyed Vidyapati/Bihari/Bhushan, would not have jumped to compare Braja/Awadhi/Bhojpuri with Urdu.
A language is complete if it has balance. If it has all types of Rasa-s and Alankara-s with enough content. Urdu is very ekangi language. Howmuch Shayari of Urdu have you come across with Vaatsalya rasa in it heh? Veer-rasa? Jugupsaa rasa? Bhaya? Urdu as a poetry medium was, is, and allah-willing shall be the farsi-influenced-shringara-rasa language.
========
2. The very obscene couplet you posted - it is certainly not Bhojpuri- not one word in it.
========
3. I wish you would have followed the background of where Urdu discussion came in. It came in several days (or weeks) back, that in Pakistan Urdu is fast replacing Panjabi (and other real native languages). Just like Urdu has replaced Kashmiri in Kashmir. Just like they will attempt to replace Kannda with Urdu. A Muslim-faith does not have to replace the culture, right? But you see facts are showing what is happening in the entire sub-continent. From Sindh to Bangal-Assam, and from Kashmir to Tamil Nadu. One Tamizh friend was telling me the other day, how Tamizh muslims are now breaking both the legs of that language to accommodate Urdu in it - as a symbol of pan-Hinddostani-Islamiyat!
Getting what is the problem? I hope you do. Again, Let me once again quote from Shri M.S.Gupta Ji, on what he says about ancestral tradition -
nij-poorvajan ke sadguNo kaa garva jo rakhatee nahin
vaha jaati jeevit jaatiyon me, rah nahin sakati kahin
pad-chinha unake yatna-poorvak khoj lena chahiye
nij poorva-gaurav deep ko bujhane na dena chahiye
{who take no pride on qualities of ones ancestors,
those civilizations will never be able to survive as living races
therefore, their (ancestors) foot-steps must be effortfully traced
and the lamp of ones glory of yore must never ever be extinguished}
Problem is not Urdu itself (or even English). They are fine if they can coexist with countless languages of our traditions. The problem is, they (not their fault) have now become a symbol of a new idea - that is a contempt for the tradition. Renounce the faith of ancestors - renounce their language and culture too! That idea. What would otherwise explain why Pakistanis will slowly renounce Panjabi Sindhi for Urdu? Even the trends suggest that Urdu finds home in Bangladesh now! What an irony that country was craeted on language issue at the forefront.
See the problem? So the problem really is the contempt which you displayed in your first post where you quoted your respected grandmother saying something about Hindi.
And in a sense, that contempt for rest of the native Indian languages - is an original sanskaar of Urdu language. It was very much conceived in that hate for and aggression against the languages of idolators. Again its upto an individual howmuch one wants to learn from History.
For more if one is interested, "Progress of Indic Languages" under culture thread will be better - so as to not obstruct true Pakistan discussion on this thread.
1. <!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->how, for example, does the body of Bhojpuri Poetry (of which you may be a Master) compare with that of Urdu Poetry? ... how many times have you heard a Bundelkhandi couplet quoted? ...
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Depends upon what company you keep. Naresh Ji and Mudy Ji in a jovial mood have been saying this differently - language of Muzra and Kotha they said - but let me say this with a little more serious tone.
Which language you will use will determine what will be the content, to a large extent. Urdu has been for a long time a language which is used for brand "shayari", and will carry romantic shringar rasa. While Urdu does also have other Rasa-s and sanskaras, but it can not be denied that Shringaar rasa - both samyog and viyog moods is what dominates Urdu for ages, and in a popular content.
Now let us turn to native languages- Braja, Awadhi etc. Couplet, or original term of it, 'dohaa', is primarily a heritage of native braja-bhasha and awadhi-bhasha. Please remember Rahim Das Ji, and his awesome collection of doha-s in braja and awadhi. Those were original and immortal couplets which are quoted many many more times than any number of ash-aar of farsi-nishtha-urdu. Even today rahimdas-ji's neeti-dohas are very common. Much more succesful and long lasting impression than any Urdu "couplets".
Since you seem familiar, let me just quote the first National Poet, predecessor of Shri Dinakar Ji - Sri Maithili Sharan Gupta, on what he says is the purpose of poetry in his view-point:
kyon aaj ramcharitmanas sab kaheen sammanya hai?
satkaavya-yug usame param aadarsha kaa praadhanya hai.
keval manoranjan na kavita-karma hona chahiye?
usame uchit upadesh ka bhee marma hona chahiye
{Why is Ramcharitmanas everywhere so respected?
because it carries the era of 'Sat'-poetry in it, and supreme are ideals in it,
only entertainment - should that be the poetry's duty?
no! it must also be propogator of balanced and right narrative}
Just like RCM of Awadhi, same thing can be said about Bhojpuri, Maithili and others. I hope you have enjoyed the immortat poetry of Vidyapati, or Bihari? But I doubt, because if someone has seriousely enjoyed Vidyapati/Bihari/Bhushan, would not have jumped to compare Braja/Awadhi/Bhojpuri with Urdu.
A language is complete if it has balance. If it has all types of Rasa-s and Alankara-s with enough content. Urdu is very ekangi language. Howmuch Shayari of Urdu have you come across with Vaatsalya rasa in it heh? Veer-rasa? Jugupsaa rasa? Bhaya? Urdu as a poetry medium was, is, and allah-willing shall be the farsi-influenced-shringara-rasa language.
========
2. The very obscene couplet you posted - it is certainly not Bhojpuri- not one word in it.
========
3. I wish you would have followed the background of where Urdu discussion came in. It came in several days (or weeks) back, that in Pakistan Urdu is fast replacing Panjabi (and other real native languages). Just like Urdu has replaced Kashmiri in Kashmir. Just like they will attempt to replace Kannda with Urdu. A Muslim-faith does not have to replace the culture, right? But you see facts are showing what is happening in the entire sub-continent. From Sindh to Bangal-Assam, and from Kashmir to Tamil Nadu. One Tamizh friend was telling me the other day, how Tamizh muslims are now breaking both the legs of that language to accommodate Urdu in it - as a symbol of pan-Hinddostani-Islamiyat!
Getting what is the problem? I hope you do. Again, Let me once again quote from Shri M.S.Gupta Ji, on what he says about ancestral tradition -
nij-poorvajan ke sadguNo kaa garva jo rakhatee nahin
vaha jaati jeevit jaatiyon me, rah nahin sakati kahin
pad-chinha unake yatna-poorvak khoj lena chahiye
nij poorva-gaurav deep ko bujhane na dena chahiye
{who take no pride on qualities of ones ancestors,
those civilizations will never be able to survive as living races
therefore, their (ancestors) foot-steps must be effortfully traced
and the lamp of ones glory of yore must never ever be extinguished}
Problem is not Urdu itself (or even English). They are fine if they can coexist with countless languages of our traditions. The problem is, they (not their fault) have now become a symbol of a new idea - that is a contempt for the tradition. Renounce the faith of ancestors - renounce their language and culture too! That idea. What would otherwise explain why Pakistanis will slowly renounce Panjabi Sindhi for Urdu? Even the trends suggest that Urdu finds home in Bangladesh now! What an irony that country was craeted on language issue at the forefront.
See the problem? So the problem really is the contempt which you displayed in your first post where you quoted your respected grandmother saying something about Hindi.
And in a sense, that contempt for rest of the native Indian languages - is an original sanskaar of Urdu language. It was very much conceived in that hate for and aggression against the languages of idolators. Again its upto an individual howmuch one wants to learn from History.
For more if one is interested, "Progress of Indic Languages" under culture thread will be better - so as to not obstruct true Pakistan discussion on this thread.