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2009 -- India Election -
<!--QuoteBegin-shyam+Mar 18 2009, 11:33 PM-->QUOTE(shyam @ Mar 18 2009, 11:33 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Bodhi+Mar 18 2009, 10:50 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bodhi @ Mar 18 2009, 10:50 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->...
I think BJP is distancing itself for the reason EC with its congress agents may be baying at BJP to own his comments so EC can expand their case to party.

Disown comments and move on. It also leaves VG to become more rabid. If EC goes after him it is good for BJP. EC only has power to make charges it will be long story to actually prove him guilty. By the time if BJP comes to power they can purge EC.

One wishes BJP were so articulate in matters as you explain. In reality they are not. They do not even have the basic cunning to play politics. Evidence is the 'Cash for Vote' sting they had CNN-IBN do for them, and then cried like a child that Sardesai is neither running the video nor giving BJP a copy, and when it finally came out, they cried that it was doctored. They gave LS ticket in 2004 to the Christian evangelist in Bengaluru, let that fellow carry on his christianist work all throughout the period as MP, only to learn that he ditched them right at the moment to vote for UPA. Or like when they sacrificed a Rajya Sabha seat for Najma Heptullah and also for L M Singhavi the father of Congress Spokesperson Abhishek Manu Singhavi - known for their secularist credentials.

It is in the DNA of BJP, I think, and not any calculated tactic. Election or no election, they can not live with any open Hindutva element. Go read the history of emergence of Vajpayee after they expelled Prof. Balraj Madhok from the Hindu party. Prof. Madhok was the original heir of Mookerjee, a co-founder of the party, and its president when Jan sangh grew to become a main opposition with respectable number of seats in Parliament. Under him the party had preserved its original Mookerjee character, which Vajpayee and Advani finally subverted. Being a Professor of History, he knew a thing or two, clearer in perspective about the direction of Hindu revival than these fake leaders who are born politicians, and have done nothing professional in their prime except for politics unlike Madhok and Mookerjee.

The BJP's ex-PM and upcoming-PM simply purged all the Mookerjee element from the party, and promoted some green TomTom Hindutva which has now come of age.

Balraj Madhok: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balraj_Madhok

BJP's "hindutva", as Saurav Basu commented, is a typical bania[shopkeeper]-dhimmitude, devoid of the true Hindu character, especially intellectual and kShatriyahood.

The VG episode, like I said, is not about VG, but about observing BJP's continuance of this politically-correct Hindutva. Go vote for them.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->लोग राष्ट्रवाद के पक्ष में बटन दबाएं : स्वामी हंसराज
Mar 20, 01:38 am

पीलीभीत। धर्म जागरण संत यात्रा लेकर यहां पहुंचे महा मंडलेश्वर स्वामी हंसराज महाराज और हरिद्वार स्थित परमार्थ आश्रम के स्वामी विवेकानंद सरस्वती ने चुनाव में राष्ट्रवादी प्रत्याशी के लिए ईवीएम का बटन दबाने का आह्वान किया। दोनों संतों ने अपने संबोधन में भाजपा प्रत्याशी वरुण गांधी की जमकर तारीफ की।

गुरुवार को स्टेशन रोड स्थित गोदावरी काम्प्लेक्स परिसर में धर्म रक्षा मंच की ओर से आयोजित सभा में संत समिति के अखिल भारतीय महामंत्री एवं धर्म रक्षा समिति के संयोजक स्वामी हंसराज महाराज ने वरुण गांधी को देश की शान बताते हुए कहा कि उसने राष्ट्रवाद की बात की तो देश का मीडिया उसके पीछे पड़ गया। उन्होंने चुनाव आयोग की मंशा पर भी सवाल उठाए। उन्होंने इसे साजिश ठहराया। उन्होंने कहा कि हिन्दू कभी आतंकी नहीं हो सकता। निर्दोष साध्वी प्रज्ञा को जेल में यातनाएं दी जा रही हैं और सुप्रीम कोर्ट जिस आतंकी को फांसी की सजा सुना चुका, उसे जेल में बिरयानी परोसी जाती है। कहा कि इस देश में मुसलमान सबसे ज्यादा सुखी है। पाकिस्तान, अफगानिस्तान और अरब देशों में क्या हो रहा है, यह सभी जानते है। उन्होंने आह्वान कियाकि सभी लोग एकजुट होकर सौ फीसदी मतदान करे। इशारों में यह भी बता दिया कि बटन किसके लिए दबाना है।

हरिद्वार के परमार्थ आश्रम से आए स्वामी विवेकानंद सरस्वती ने कहा कि देश में चिंता की ज्वाला में धधक रही है। धर्मनिरपेक्ष सरकार की राजनीति यही रही है कि जातीय विद्वेष की आग जलती रही। राज्य व केंद्र सरकार की साजिश रही है कि राष्ट्रवादी समाज के फूलों को इतना मरोड़ दो कि कोई गुलदस्ता न बन सके। उन्होंने कहा कि वैसे तो इस संत यात्रा का चुनाव से कोई लेना देना नहीं है लेकिन साथ ही आह्वान भी किया कि आने वाले समय में उन्हीं का साथ दें जो हिन्दुत्व और राष्ट्रवाद के लिए संघर्ष कर रहे है। उन्होंने कहा कि पीलीभीत को मौका मिल गया है बटन दबाने का। उसी के सामने बटन दबा देना। विश्व हिन्दू परिषद के सह केंद्रीय मंत्री अशोक तिवारी ने कहा कि वरुण गांधी के भाषण को मुद्दा बनाकर चुनाव आयोग उसके गलत अर्थ निकाल रहा है। आखिर यह किन लोगों को खुश करने की योजना पर काम हो रहा है।

^ All the above

The following links:
1. mainly for the comments showing <b>what the Hindu readership at HK thinks</b> of FVG (they are more aware Hindus, in that they know about the christian ownership of various media outlets, etcetera)
2. also for what HK thinks of FVG

- http://haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?P...382&SKIN=B
Varun Gandhi defends Hindus
17/03/2009 14:48:54 Vedaprakash

- http://haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?P...385&SKIN=B
Varun defends: I’m a Gandhi, Hindu and Indian in equal measure
18/03/2009 13:30:40 With Inputs from Daily Pioneer

- http://haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?P...387&SKIN=B
"There is Hindutva spark in him. Don’t extinguish it” -Thackeray defends Varun
18/03/2009 13:38:46
TN Raghunatha | Mumbai - Daily Pioneer

- http://haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?P...397&SKIN=K
Varun Gandhis are just need of the time and we need one in every village.
19/03/2009 14:54:28 Raghavan Nair

<b>Correction beyond the green section.</b>

Has HK and its readership not read the news where FVG said that he supports secularism, is not communal and did not say what he was accused of saying?
Media is creating one idea of FVG that is sold to Hindus, and the reality could just as well turn out to be another.

<!--QuoteBegin-Husky+Mar 18 2009, 08:59 PM-->QUOTE(Husky @ Mar 18 2009, 08:59 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Bodhi+Mar 18 2009, 04:51 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bodhi @ Mar 18 2009, 04:51 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>The episode is not about judging VG,</b> and that would be juvenile thing to do, but it is really about analyzing reactions it has generated within different quarters, especially within BJP.[right][snapback]95599[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Also a good time to analyse whether he's just another kkkangress plant meant to drive a wedge into and split the BJP votebank. And to look at how big the media blows this up. Maybe they just want to give lots of <b>exposure to VG for a reason? Media always attempts to manipulate Hindu responses.</b> Especially at election time. And Congress machinations are also enlarged at election time.[right][snapback]95603[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->But the Hindu readership IS precisely both judging and responding to VG, and not thinking matters through. And that is exactly my worry. Personally, I don't think it has anything to do with juvenalia on their part (moreover the pulse of the masses can't be dismissed with condescension, because it acts more powerful than an individual's solitary vote): Hindus are so desperate now, they are eager to believe. To believe in the very first person that comes up to them and is (accused of) saying things that <i>sound</i> like (s)he may <i>act</i> to defend Hindus and Hindu Dharma. (Reminiscent of the general jubilation at the theories floated on the existence of some 'Hindu Terrier'.)
Instead of reasoning about the person's motivations and the things FVG has publicly said afterwards (his having denied making the statements as presented; his professing secularism with reference to Sanjay Gandhi's kind), many people would rather believe those things of him that they'd prefer to believe.

Belief is a dangerous thing - they are drawing conclusions emotionally rather than basing it on the available data. They could be setting themselves up for a disappointment. Jumping to eager conclusions too fast. Ought to be more wary. For instance, if FVG did turn out to be insincere and to be planted besides, then one conclusion is that KKKongress is certainly pushing the right buttons in painting him as attractive material to that part of the Hindu votebank that's more aware of the troubles the nation is facing. Hindus have to develop some methods of discernment, such as at least waiting for more data before getting elated and endorsing politicians/groups.

To me, the following bit posted earlier in this thread makes the event sound like a KKKongressi card:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Amar Singh said such comments were expected of a saffron leader.
"There is nothing new in the statement. BJP leaders had been using such words in the past too," Singh told reporters here.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->A bit like how the christomedia's staged "Ra msena beating up women" drama was then slammed by the same christomedia. All for ensuring KKKongressi points.
This is also interesting, though the meaning of silence is harder to guess at:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Political observers find the silence of SP chief Mulayam Singh Yadav, who declined to comment on the issue, a little intriguing.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Any person on the BJP side truly concerned with Hindu Dharma ought to
1. first thoroughly investigate FVG and find out all about his motivations. Why is he playing exactly to KKKangress' picture of BJP, for instance. If he'd been sincere to help Hindus out, he could have spoken more diplomatically, ensured more votes, and when in power work to eradicate christoislamism. Now the only ones getting any mileage out of this is the KKKongress, as much of the BJP doesn't know how fast to wash its hands off FVG, BJP is further tarnished in the view of the psecular voters, KKKongress is ecstatic to have such a 'miraculous' instance to pin on BJP and the 'saffron side' in general, it's not likely that Hindus looking forward to FVG acting on their behalf will get to see the person which they at present believe him to be in power.

2. if, after investigating him, FVG <i>was</i> found to be sincere, need to make sure he knows how to speak diplomatically, and act eloquently in favour of Hindu Dharma.
But if he didn't make those remarks that have been branded as 'communal', then need to make sure that those who created and spread the libel are sued into beggary. Get the message across that it doesn't pay to lie.

3. if FVG is found to be a plant, expose him and bring down KKKongress with it and expose their tactics. If FVG is merely found to be insincere (opportunist politician), publicly dump him for not being a Hindu.

<b>ADDED: Full green section above all irrelevant because I was wrong.</b>
<!--QuoteBegin-Bodhi+Mar 20 2009, 05:58 PM-->QUOTE(Bodhi @ Mar 20 2009, 05:58 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Like when you repeat that he has <b>disowned his statements, which he has obviousely not - he has only said that these are not the original words of his, and there are things added and deleted to what he said.</b>  I can imagine you did not see the videos posted by Dhu and especially the one (with Dipak Chaurasia) by me where <b>he repeated yesterday that he stands by what he said about protecting Hindus, but has not said any derogatory thing against moslems.</b>[right][snapback]95657[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->(While I've not watched the Hindi video referred to - since, well, I don't understand Hindi - the summary above suffices since I have watched the English video that Dhu posted, which seems to be similar in spirit, though not the same in content.)
<!--QuoteBegin-Husky+Mar 20 2009, 03:50 PM-->QUOTE(Husky @ Mar 20 2009, 03:50 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->his professing secularism with reference to Sanjay Gandhi's kind

pls explain what kind of secularism is that.

I suspect you know little about Sanjay Gandhi to have said the above.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Any person on the BJP side truly concerned with Hindu Dharma ought to
1. first thoroughly investigate FVG and find out all about his motivations. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Why should the above not apply to the very candidate who is declared to be the PM if NDA came to power? Has that very person denounced his own secularism? Has he apologized/denounced his remarks on Jinnah and JanmaBhumi? When none "on the BJP side truly concerned with Hindu Dharma" questions the very PM-candidate, what is worth worrying about small fries?
<!--QuoteBegin-Bodhi+Mar 20 2009, 04:26 PM-->QUOTE(Bodhi @ Mar 20 2009, 04:26 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Why should the above not apply to the very candidate who is declared to be the PM if NDA came to power?  Has that very person denounced his own secularism?  Has he apologized/denounced his remarks on Jinnah and JanmaBhumi? When none "on the BJP side truly concerned with Hindu Dharma" questions the very PM-candidate, what is worth worrying about small fries?
[right][snapback]95653[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->I am not disputing you about this. BJP's leadership is worrying, and more so after all you (and others) have posted or written on them.

But I am (also) worried about the general Hindus' unguarded response to the one who has recently been given much of the spotlight.
<b>ADDED:</b> See also post 53 below

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->pls explain what kind of secularism is that.
I suspect you know little about Sanjay Gandhi to have said the above<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->The only thing I ever knew about SG (well, before I read on here that he was a little islamic) was a famous sterilisation drive on account of something Sanjay said. Even if he were not fully to blame for the form the consequent actions took, he could have done something about it. Not what I had in mind when I think of the word 'secularism'.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->But I am (also) worried about the general Hindus' unguarded response to the one who has recently been given much of the spotlight.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Such Hindu response comes naturally to them, and they lap up anything that can come their way, thanks to the prevailing insecurity. It is advisable therefore to have a system of caution inbuilt, and not let guards down. That much suspicion is fair enough. But on the other hand, there should be some basis for turning this minimum suspicion into open antagonism, which is evident in your posts. Rather than sounding cautious and alert, your posts come out sounding like you have some inside dope against VG that others dont have. Like your mocking him by adding Firoze Khan-Gandhi's initials to his name whenever you mention him. we do mock villains but not suspects without any strong data aginst them, never too someone when they are not apparing to be doing harm and all that may be made out against them be circumstantial and unverified. I am not sure in this case we know of any of his villainary. What is the best case a suspicious mind can make right now of him? Not much. Then wait for data, do some research. But not having done that, not having any known ground to run him down, is not usual to make up one's mind on someone. Besides, when you, especially you, who is known by me as a sharply objective mind, keep repeating some unverified points it becomes clear you have more reasons to oppose him than you are letting others know, e.g. your disturbance with some supposed eviction of some sikh person from a rally, for unspecified reason, by unspecified actors, in a story run only by CNN-IBN, only once, in a vague language reminding one of their Gujarat style, and then copied pasted by their cousins, but not taken up by any sober media outlet. Like when you repeat that he has disowned his statements, which he has obviousely not - he has only said that these are not the original words of his, and there are things added and deleted to what he said. I can imagine you did not see the videos posted by Dhu and especially the one (with Dipak Chaurasia) by me where he repeated yesterday that he stands by what he said about protecting Hindus, but has not said any derogatory thing against moslems.

So, do tell us what you know against the fellow that we don't, since you are very vocal lone voice, and rather hyper on the issue. Although like I said, VG is of minimum importance to Hindus right now. We do know there are larger imposters entangled deeper into BJP. What can be a good outcome is that it becomes a catalyst to throw away political correctness in the prevailing discourse. I shall take that happily anyday, even at the risk of VG being a fake Hindu leader.

About Sanjay Gandhi. Why do you just paint everything and everyone with same brush when you do not know much about someone? Not fair. The fellow might have been anything, but was not known to be a secular. Please read some accounts of Emergency. I recommend Jagmohan's account, now a BJP MP and ex-cabinet minister, he was a close ally of SG at that time. SG was known to be an open anti-Muslim, hated by mullas and seculars, and liked by (non-BJP) Hindutva types. Shiv Sena had close links with the fellow and Bal Thackeray in those days was never tired of praising him, nor is he today. Unlike others who simply talk about demographic invasion by Muslims, he went about doing something about it --he is alleged to have launched the systematic sterilization drive in UP and Delhi, targeting mostly Muslims. He demolished Old Delhi's Muslim Ghettos which used to breed and export yearly rioters. There was that famous picture of a bull-dozer at Jama Masjid. Shahi Imam's famous popularity and power was reduced to a joke by him. He had them all terrified. Till date he is most hated person ever of free India by Muslims of that generation. (Not that I support all that he did, just correcting your otherwise misinformed opinion -- he was not a secular of any kind, was not a muslim-appeaser like his elder brother or Advaniji).
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->some supposed eviction of some sikh person from a rally, for unspecified reason, by unspecified actors, in a story run only by CNN-IBN, only once, in a vague language reminding one of their Gujarat style, and then copied pasted by their cousins, but not taken up by any sober media outlet.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->And why could you not have written all that earlier: that it was very suspicious reporting? That is <i>exactly</i> what I wanted to know. I read the accusation in an article Mudy linked to in Express India (but they could just have C&P-ed it from CNNIBN).
It troubled me because the allegation was that he was excluding another Dharmic. And how would any <i>Hindu</i> person do that (unless the supposed Dharmic was not a Dharmic, etcetera). The open allegation - since it was unrefuted - made me suspect VG (that, and the decontextualised references to Rama, and the timing of the drama). Obviously you knew that the allegation was unreliable and hence had less reason to be troubled.
<b>Correcting ERROR:</b> I read the above in the CNNIBN article linked to by Bodhi earlier in the thread, not ExpressIndia. The ExpressIndia article was the one where VG was to have stated that the tape was doctored.

And that answers these questions:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->So, do tell us what you know against the fellow that we don't ... your posts come out sounding like you have some inside dope against VG that others dont have.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I can imagine you did not see the videos posted by Dhu and especially the one (with Dipak Chaurasia) by me where he repeated yesterday that he stands by what he said about protecting Hindus, but has not said any derogatory thing against moslems.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Not watched any youtube videos, because bandwidth here is extremely limited. Some days (usually weekends) I go home and have a better connection. Also, was out yesterday evening.

About SG -
But that's exactly what I implied both yesterday and today: that Sanjay was <i>not</i> secular. (I thought I was being clear, putting the word into quotes, calling it type of/brand of secularism. Guess not clear enough.)

Yes, I do know that mostly muslims were affected (and chased from certain areas). I've known of it for about a decade.

Why do people want to do everything except get into an open fight with christoislamism? That fight may come some day and it may be bloody, ugly and a total loss. But there was a time when Hindus could have won Bharatam back mostly by information dissemination and pointing out the falseness of christoislamism with a unified voice. But that was too unsecular I guess. And may be too late now. Too many muslims converted to True Islam (=terrorism) and too much christopropaganda against Hindu Dharma now; and christo-instilled psecularism among Hindus that makes them the greatest defenders of christoislamism.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Why do you just paint everything and everyone with same brush when you do not know much about someone?  Not fair.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->What SG allowed for says something about his character. You want/expect me to be fair to him?

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Although like I said, VG is of minimum importance to Hindus right now.  We do know there are larger imposters entangled deeper into BJP.  What can be a good outcome is that it becomes a catalyst to throw away political correctness in the prevailing discourse.  I shall take that happily anyday, even at the risk of VG being a fake Hindu leader.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->But do you see only one move which is possible? The one you foresee is excellent, granted. But why am I imagining more than one possible outcome (and/or several players) in this new entry, and that at least one of these other possibilities is not quite so good. Rather bad in fact.
If there's any indications of how this episode does not *also* fit a 2009 election kkkongress ploy to manipulate the populace, I'd be relieved.

<b>EDITED:</b> Corrected an ERROR see above somewhere.

<b>ADDED:</b> See post 53 below.
By using 10,000x microscope to examine the candidates when what is needed is a telescope, folks can end up like the Indian Army without any weapons to fight when needed. There is nothing that suits their high standards and that is used to de-militarize them. Same case with BJP.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->V.M.Singh, who besides being the Congress nominee from Pilbhit, was also Maneka Gandhi's estranged cousin, alleged, "Even Maneka has been winning the election from here by somehow ensuring polarisation of votes on religious lines."

He claimed, "I am told that her strong connections with SP bigwig Amar Singh [Images] has helped her to achieve that objective."

Singh also said, "The selection of Riaz Ahmad as the SP nominee this time was a reflection of this underhand deal only", adding, "Who does not know that Riaz Ahmad had very old nexus with Maneka, who fielded him as Sanjay Vichar Manch (floated by her in 1983, after her husband Sanjay Gandhi's death)?"

Interestingly, Amar Singh chose to handpick Riaz against Satpal Gangwar, who had stood second in the 2004 Lok Sabha tally.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Just watched Varun's interview with Deepak Chaurasia posted above. Deepak Chaurasia asks -> aapko kaisa lagta hai jab congress party jiski adhyakshaa aapkee taijee hain unhone yeh issue pehle uthayaa (how do you feel when congress party whose chairperson is your taijee - father's-elder-brother's wife - raised this issue). Varun says -> mujhe kuch nahin kehnaa hai, her koi apnaa rastaa khud tay karegaa lekin jo maine nahin kahaa woh maine nahin kahaa (i dont want to say anything - everyone will pick their own ways - but what i have not said, i have not said). Rajmataa and the other cubs of dynasty have also refused to comment as far as i know. Has anybody heard of any stmt coming out of SG/RG/PV ?


Meanwhile, I was definitely not aware that Soniaji was viewed has a "brahmin lady from UP". Indian Elections are the best.. <!--emo&Smile--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->


<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"But, <b>Sonia Gandhi</b> is an incorrigible moderate," the leader argues, adding, "She is queen of status quo. She doesn't give fitting reply to old-style Congressmen when they ask, "hamara raj kab ayega? (When will our rule come?)" She is a gracious lady. She herself has occupied the middle ground of politics and is happy occupant of it."

In the last five years, people of India have not only accepted her, but she has become an icon of India's middle class. For them she is a "<b>Brahmin lady from UP playing upper caste progressive and pragmatic politics.</b>"<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats from Sheela Bh(u)tt!
<!--QuoteBegin-rajesh_g+Mar 21 2009, 01:55 AM-->QUOTE(rajesh_g @ Mar 21 2009, 01:55 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Rajmataa and the other cubs of dynasty have also refused to comment as far as i know. Has anybody heard of any stmt coming out of SG/RG/PV ?

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->V.M.Singh, who besides being the Congress nominee from Pilbhit, was also Maneka Gandhi's estranged cousin, alleged, ...

He claimed, "I am told that her strong connections with SP bigwig Amar Singh [Images] has helped her to achieve that objective."<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

The case is of course that of protecting family enterprise. Neither of the gandhi (sic) families would ever speak against the other and perpetually avoid all confrontation to protect the commonwealth interests as well as to avoid bringing dirty linen of each other in public.

Similar to Sindhia family, where its members were/are placed high up in the hierarchy of both the BJP and Congress to safeguard one's interests. Vijaya Raje was in BJP when her son Madhav Rao in Congress. Now Vasundhara Raje is in BJP and Jyotiraditya in Congress. And they would never target the other member of the clan. Always avoid all confrontation including tacitly dividing the seats their chosen candidates would contest in pocket borrows of Gwalior, Guna, Vidisha etc, and would never campaign against each other.

Answers to my questions AKA <b>How I Was Totally Wrong</b> (but glad to find I was):

1. Question:
<!--QuoteBegin-Husky+Mar 17 2009, 08:36 PM-->QUOTE(Husky @ Mar 17 2009, 08:36 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"This is not a 'Hand' (Congress symbol), it is the power of the 'Lotus' (BJP symbol).  It will cut the head of Jai Shri Ram," Gandhi, son of the late Sanjay Gandhi and Maneka, <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->What does he mean "it will cut the head of Jai Sri Ram"? Did I misread. Or is there some other person he's referring to with "Jai Sri Ram" than the one I'm thinking of?[right][snapback]95558[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Bodhi+Mar 18 2009, 08:22 AM-->QUOTE(Bodhi @ Mar 18 2009, 08:22 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->"it will cut the head of ....(not audible, b/g noise).... (slogan->) Jai Sri Ram"
<!--QuoteBegin-dhu+Mar 18 2009, 08:13 AM-->QUOTE(dhu @ Mar 18 2009, 08:13 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Police file FIR against Varun Gandhi<!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"this is not a 'Hand' (Congress symbol), it is the power of the 'Lotus' (BJP symbol). It will cut the head of ....... Jai Shri Ram."<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->The media censored the whole statement.

2. Question:
<!--QuoteBegin-Husky+Mar 18 2009, 03:21 PM-->QUOTE(Husky @ Mar 18 2009, 03:21 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->One more thing I need to know to make me feel less suspicious:
2. What about the old Sikh person who alleged that Feroze Varun Gandhi drove him away? Is that just more of christomedia's fictions or is there truth to that or has it been spun out of context, or was it a paid Khalistani told to mouth those lines for TV or ... what?[right][snapback]95596[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Bodhi+Mar 20 2009, 05:58 PM-->QUOTE(Bodhi @ Mar 20 2009, 05:58 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->some supposed eviction of some sikh person from a rally, for unspecified reason, by unspecified actors, in a story run only by CNN-IBN, only once, in a vague language reminding one of their Gujarat style, and then copied pasted by their cousins, but not taken up by any sober media outlet.[right][snapback]95657[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

3. Questions:
<!--QuoteBegin-Husky+Mar 18 2009, 04:16 PM-->QUOTE(Husky @ Mar 18 2009, 04:16 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><i>If</i> those were his words and he were sincere why would he need to deny his statements and loudly swear allegiance to secularism? How can Hindus trust him if he says one thing to them and another thing to others? Which does he really mean.
"Varun says tape doctored, denies charge" (from Mudy's post in another thread)
<!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"I unequivocally state that that (the speech CD) is neither my voice nor my language. The tape in question appears to have been doctored," Gandhi claimed.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->[right][snapback]95597[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Bodhi+Mar 20 2009, 05:58 PM-->QUOTE(Bodhi @ Mar 20 2009, 05:58 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Like when <b>you repeat that he has disowned his statements, which he has obviousely not - he has only said that these are not the original words of his, and there are things added and deleted to what he said.</b>  I can imagine you did not see the videos posted by Dhu and especially the one (with Dipak Chaurasia) by me where <b>he repeated yesterday that he stands by what he said about protecting Hindus, but has not said any derogatory thing against moslems.</b>[right][snapback]95657[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

4. Video posted by Dhu (#367 of BJP - 6 thread): Varun Gandhi cries foul (English).

<b>Transcript of the above English-language video where Feroze Varun Gandhi delivers his statement</b>
(A lot - but not all - of it was already there in the news articles which others had posted earlier in this thread. The transcript is for anyone else who doesn't have great connectivity, but it's better to watch the video itself as the text is no substitute):

"Each time anyone identifies with the Hindu community, there is a vigorous attempt to embarrass and brand him communal. I am proud of my faith, not apologetic about it. I'm a Gandhi, a Hindu and an Indian in equal measure. Hindutva embraces tolerance and justice, compassion with courage, and inclusivity with insight. Nothing I've ever said or done has been intended to incite hatred. I'm pro-India, not anti-anybody.

Since the UP assembly elections, the Pilibhit parliamentary constituency and the entire of central Uttar Pradesh, which is about 20 districts, has been witness to a number of communal and provocative incidents.
The slaughtered remains of cows has been found in various homes. No action has been taken.
Thousands and thousands of people from the Hindu community have been placed under arrest in NSA (National Security Act).
Three temples have been vandalised in the block in which I am supposed to have given this speech.
Village pradhans have been threatened daily.
Quota shop owners have had their quotas cancelled.

Pilibhit is a sensitive border area. There is widespread fear that arms are being smuggled into ghettos to be used against India. My attempt has been to restore confidence in a community that has been under siege in its own country.
When things are seen out of context, there is always the danger of misunderstanding.

India is a big country, with a big heart. There is room in it for all to live in peace and goodwill. That is my sincere hope and effort. I have been the victim of a political conspiracy. Those are not my words and that is not my voice. I have not made any communal statement. I want to ask the nation to stand by me. This CD which was supposed to be made on the 4th, why was it released on the 16th? Where was it for 12 days? Who has made it? It has been doctored. It has been a malicious attempt to brand me as communal. There is no question of my having any ill feeling towards (any?) community. Yes I'm a proud Hindu, and as a proud Hindu I stand by all members of all religions and all faiths. Thank you. Now I will give my statement in Hindi. ..."

Better to watch it, since it shows a lot more about the person than just reading news snippets of what he says - for one thing, he's very young and sounds it too. Taken in context of the video, it makes his statements referring to his dad good-natured rather than anything sinister as I had jumped to unrealistic conclusions that it might be (though I did so in conjunction with the weirdness of the above 1-3). But my view of his dad - Sanjay Gandhi - remains unchanged and is a separate issue.

Repeat: <b>I was WRONG</b> (at the very least on 1-3).
Not that that comes as a surprise. This wasn't the first time and unlikely to be the last.

I dont understand what you mean. But think about possibilities

- Sheelaji made this up
- anonymous congressi leader made this up
- someone who talked to congressi leader made this up

but one thing is for sure somebody made this up. no way can i imagine someone looking at SoniaG as a "brahmin lady". But someone still made this up. Why would someone consciously or sub-consciously do that ? I have a feeling that this is because of the UP factor. Even Behenji has increased the brahmin seat allocation and practically made her party manuwadi samaj party. this must be playing on somebody's mind when they made this up. i cannot imagine brahmins voting en-block either but someone sure thinks they are.



I understand and agree for the most part. But the issue is both VarunG and RahulG have picked UP as their battleground. Besides the gandhi pariwar is on a different level as compared to say scindia pariwar. Think about the pressure it puts on various players - both in cong and bjp - think about Tiwari and how he deals with the issue - he cannot out and out go after Varun, you never know in politics. Rahul might decide to retire from politics and become narmada bachao andolan official tour guide. Then waht ? Tiwari has to deal with Varun as AICC general secretary. I am sure such things might be playing on everybody's minds. Like new mystery spinners (like Ajanta Mendis), maybe people will "figure out" Varun eventually, but still the whole political dance behind it is interesting. Atleast to me it is.

<!--QuoteBegin-rajesh_g+Mar 22 2009, 02:28 AM-->QUOTE(rajesh_g @ Mar 22 2009, 02:28 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Rahul might decide to retire from politics and become narmada bachao andolan official tour guide.
<!--emo&Big Grin--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->

<!--QuoteBegin-rajesh_g+Mar 22 2009, 02:28 AM-->QUOTE(rajesh_g @ Mar 22 2009, 02:28 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Tiwari has to deal with Varun as AICC general secretary. I am sure such things might be playing on everybody's minds. Like new mystery spinners (like Ajanta Mendis), maybe people will "figure out" Varun eventually, but still the whole political dance behind it is interesting. Atleast to me it is.
Rajesh Ji, you are right. Chamchas must be split in their minds. That should explain their less than zealous reaction to VG, comparing to how they react to even the sneeze of Modi. But honestly, if a Hindu, even a marginal one, takes over as the Congress general secretary, I dont mind it.


<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Varun's remarks draw flak for Muslims in Sangam city

ALLAHABAD: Muslims in the city have strongly come out against the reported utterances of Varun Gandhi against the community. The issue has fast 
turned into a major embarrassment for the Bharatiya Janata Party which wasted no time in disassociating itself from the remarks of its candidate from Pilibhit.

Lambasting Varun Gandhi for his barbs against the community, former state advocate general SMA Kazmi said, "It appears that Varun is totally ignorant about the legacy he has inherited. In this backdrop, his statements assume greater gravity."

Varun seems a contrast to the emerging breed of sophisticated and mature politicians like Rahul Gandhi, Omar Abdullah, Sachin Pilot, Jyotiraditya Scindhia, who hold hopes for the future of the Indian polity, Kazmi said, adding that the remarks of the Gandhi scion were completely unwarranted.

Stating that the venomous utterances of Varun have drawn flak from Hindus and Muslims alike, former director general of state police SM Naseem said the remarks of the BJP candidate from Pilibhit reflect on his political immaturity, who has inherited a rich political legacy.

Demanding an unconditional apology from the Gandhi scion for his tirade against the Muslim community, convener of Allahabad Moharrum Jhoola Committee, Ghulam Rasool said, "It seems that top leaders of BJP are providing veiled support to Varun. Otherwise, they should have stepped in and rendered an apology to bury the hatchet and steered the party clear of any controversy."

Holding similar views, educationist and social activist Zafar Bakht said such persons should be convicted by court because they are trying to distort the basic ethos of Indian culture which has nurtured diverse races and communities on the same soil.

"How can he make such statements against the community which is an integral part of the Ganga Jamuna tehzeeb. Besides, he hails from a family which is looked upon as an upholder of secular values in the country," Bakht said.

Expressing apprehension that if young leaders like Varun Gandhi adopt such views then what future beholds for the country, student leader Shariq Omar said that such communal utterances can lead to discord in the society.

Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) leader Shyam Krishna Pandey, however, tried to tone down the controversy. "It is too early to comment on the issue since the authenticity of the tape is yet to be established, he said. "Besides, a lot depends on the context in which the issue is being raked up because it is up to the Election Commission to decide whether the person in question actually made such statements," he added. 

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Varun Gandhi being targeted, says Hindu Mahasabha</b>

LUCKNOW: Defending BJP candidate from Pilibhit, Varun Gandhi for his "inflammatory utterances", the Hindu Mahasabha on Saturday said that he was being targeted as he is speaking for the cause of "Hindutva".

The state unit president of the All India Hindu Mahasabha, Mahant Narayan Giri, told newspersons that Varun Gandhi has said nothing wrong in his speech and was being targeted for speaking for the cause of "Hindutva".

He said the Mahasabha would not field its candidate against him in the Lok Sabha polls in Uttar Pradesh, where it would be fielding nominees from about three dozen seats.

The Mahasabha would also not field a candidate from where Yogi Adityanath (Gorakhpur) would be contesting as he also stood up for the cause of Hindutva.

On the BJP, Giri said now that the saffron party has deviated from the issues related to Hindutva, there was no difference between it and any other political party.

"This is also a reason for the slide in popularity of the BJP," he added.

Hindu Mahasabha would also not not field candidates against the BJP nominees who speak for the cause of Hindutva, the Mahasabha leader said.


<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Spare us on Varun issue, BJP tells EC</b>

The BJP said in its letter to the Election Commission that "it completely disagrees, disassociates and disapproves the contents of the alleged CD (of the speeches) as sent to us.

"Even assuming that a speech has been delivered by a member of the party, these contents do not represent the views of the party or its policies."

The BJP reiterated its commitment to the model code of conduct "in its entirety" and said it "shall endeavour to fully comply with it".

"Merely because a member of the party has expressed views contrary to what the party stands for, the party cannot be vested with any responsibility.

"In view of the categorical position taken by the BJP before the issuance of the notice (by the poll panel) and in reply to the notice, we request the Election Commission to discharge the notice."

BJP always bending over. Should just tell EC to screw off. What would be the consequences of that?
<!--QuoteBegin-Pandyan+Mar 22 2009, 12:08 PM-->QUOTE(Pandyan @ Mar 22 2009, 12:08 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->BJP always bending over. Should just tell EC to screw off. What would be the consequences of that?

BJP is absolutely shameless and most disloyal. If they cannot defend one of their own candidates, how can they defend hindus? Was there anything untrue about what Varun said? But the PM-candidate wants to play safe. Nothing should derail his last chance to become PM. What is the worst thing that will happen at the EC? Can EC ban india's principal opposition from national elections?

BJP has always played by other's rules. If something is branded communal, it goes to every length to avoid taking a stand on that. The media dictates terms to BJP and it dances to those tunes. All for what? for the commie media to say BJP is secular? I would rather have congress in power instead of these "friends of hindus", who cannot be trusted. Atleast with congress, we know they are anti-hindu . With BJP, hindus tend to relax and not be alert on issues that BJP would let their partners go on anti-hindu agenda in the name of coalition dharma. Over a period of time a hindu consciousness would develop instead of these pseudo-hindus.
Bodhiji, I wasnt being facetious. He has that streak in him. Lets hope he demolishes that gunga-guddaa image someday. But for now we have a principal national level party which has a leader that has an impression that he is more agit-prop then a leader.. <!--emo&Sad--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Also if you think about it VarunG/RahulG are two talwars which cannot be in the same myaan. Somethings got to give. So at what point Varun become a serious Gandhi ? At how many seats do gandhi-loyalists switch ? 25 ?

OTOH if Varun becomes big, what happens to Behenjis brahmin vote-bank ? If she loses some of the brahmins, who will benefit ?

So many factors. UP is indeed the best. <!--emo&Smile--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->


Meanwhile we have Pankaj Vohra defending Varun.


<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->To condemn a young man seeking a political future without according him a chance to defend himself goes against our democratic traditions. B<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<b>A Wake Up Call to Hindu Voters, Leaders and Activists</b>

Subject: Subversive Govt. Control of Temples violates religious Freedom. Hindus also have the right to manage their institutions as guaranteed by the constitution: Hindu Parties must commit to end this state of lawlessness and restore the rights of the national majority by bringing about a “regime change”.

Respected Hindu Voters, Activists and Youth;

Respected Hindu Leaders and devotees;

This is the wake up call for the Hindus of India. The concept of secularism in the country, as established by the Indian majority (read the Hindus), was meant to provide equal freedom, protection and treatment to all religions. As a matter of fact the Indian Constitution unambiguously prohibits the Govt. from establishing a state religion or interfering with religious formations. It also means that the Indian state cannot elevate atheism or secularism to the level of state sponsored religion. However, in the thoroughly corrupt political jungle of India, in time the real majority was replaced from the driver’s seat of the political system by an artificially created new majority which reversed the entire content, character and intent of secularism. Utilizing the systemic parliamentary trickery the new majority constituted by the combination of minority and splinter groups gave entirely a new meaning and agenda to India’s secular behavior.

The Indian democracy thus having fallen under the clutches of the hostile minorityism which in turn unleashed the same kind of aggressive yet subversive attacks as were experienced by the Hindus during the repressive regimes of the Muslim, Christian and other invaders. The ultimate goal of these self destructive strategies all along has been to change the demographic, socio-cultural and religious complexion of modern India. The very exemplary entity representing the highest degree of liberty and liberalism created by the Hindus of India for treating the minorities fairly and with utmost equality is now using the strong arms of unlimited Govt. in an attempt to gobble the creator up. Influenced by the new philosophical boundaries of the minority controlled, interpreted and enforced secularism the Indian authorities continue to invent new schemes, plots, plans and programs for destabilizing, weakening and fragmenting the foundations of Hinduism the only religion that historically, even in the face of Himalayan adversities, held India together. Under the present governing regime that crusade continues to take its toll and seriously hurt the Hindu majority, its religion and its unified character.

1) Students of history will remember that after converting Germany in to a Nazi state, Adolf Hitler, in his bid to remain in power for ever, concentrated on perfecting and using seven key structures of control for achieving his objective. The first of the seven of course was Govt. and politics. But the very second key structure of control was religion. Therefore, politically aware and conscious voters of India and citizens in general cannot but view the control by Govt. of Hindu temples, shrines and religious estates with a degree of suspicion and worry. What can stop the Indian officials, like in Hitler’s Nazi state, from expanding the state control to other areas like culture, work, education, propaganda, trade and commerce depending upon who is in power? The members of other religious formations in India should also take a moment and ponder upon the issue of state control upon religions and their infrastructure very seriously. Today the targeted religion is Hinduism and tomorrow it could be any one of them.

With such a sinistrous background in mind many of the state Governments’ in India have resorted to demolition of the Hindu religious infrastructure with unusual ferocity after usurping the control of temples under the illegally enacted lawless laws. The administration of the Govt. controlled temples has been vested in the hands of the officials without accountability, religious training, transparency and community supervision. The abundance of available evidence has proved beyond any doubt that under government control, the Hindu temples have not only been exploited injuriously but are also being driven to their ultimate extinction. This is an issue that the majority Hindus must keep in mind when they vote in the forthcoming elections. Obviously the builders of this control regime, Sonia- Singh and its cabal included, have lost the trust and confidence of Hindu India. This regime has made it a policy to violate and hurt Hindu sentiments by demolishing their religious infrastructure through deliberate and willful mismanagement under the unjustifiable state control.

2) The Hindus and all aspirants of the regime change in India must demand an unbreakable and binding commitment from candidates and political parties for supporting the Hindu agenda which may include a) autonomy of Hindu religious temples and institutions as in the case of the minority religionists; b) Amending the discriminatory provisions in the Constitution that penalize Hindus and hamper their cultural, educational and religious freedom; and, C) As required by the Indian Constitution the wall of separation between state and religion must strictly be maintained and adhered to.

In today’s India persons having no belief, devotion and background on Hinduism, even persons from adversarial religious groups, are given charge to govern and dictate their will upon the Hindu religious entities. The practice of a religious group being ruled by its opponents, former religious oppressors or those with political or financial motivations is absolutely unethical, irreligious and immoral and therefore, must be completely unacceptable. The methodology of the Govt. take over of temples is being used as an instrument of death for the Hindu places of worship. The serious consequence of this violation is that the writ of the state determines how religious shrines are managed and who gets to enjoy the spoils and privileges from the revenues generated by these shrines.

3) Southern States: Some of the Southern States have assumed the role of fore- runners for demolishing Hinduism and its religious infrastructure. Besides these governments the self professed secular Govt. of India has also become an active participant in promoting anti-Hindu religions while funding their enlargement from the Hindu coffers. A special note should be taken of the fact that the Governments as trustees do not maintain the accounts of the nationalized temples in a transparent manner. In stead they treat such accounts as discretionary and disposable assets. Given below is a short summary in two states that shows the extent to which states plunder temples and enforce their agenda. (for more details and other states see Attachment A):

Nationwide the control of the famous and internationally recognized temples like Jagannath Puri, Tirupati, Kashi Vishwanath, Vaishno Devi, Shirdi , Siddhivinayak, Guruvayoor, Chamunda Devi, Dattapeeth, Kali Mandir of Patiala, Amarnath, Badrinath, Kedarnath, etc. has already been assumed by the Govt.

4) Karnataka: In Karnataka the Congress regime suffocated Temples by siphoning off their revenues to promote adversarial religions – In the year 2002-2003, out of Rs 79 crores of temple revenues, Rs. 59.15 crores was given away to mosques, Madrasas, Hajj, etc., Rs. 12.75 crores was given to Christian institutions and a mere Rs. 7.1 crores were allocated to maintain over 248,000 temples. During the five years of the report from 1997 to 2002 some 19,000 temples have closed in Karnataka (attachment A). No where in the world does a Govt. engage in such robbery and assault of a single religion to benefit its opponents and competitors.

The Govt. also went out of its way to encourage evangelization in the state. On this front the officials provided facilities worth crores of rupees to Priest Benny Hinn for undertaking mass conversions at the State owned Jakkur Airfield Training Ground on January 21-23, 2005. Promoting politically motivated conversions in this fashion must be considered a crime punishable under the law.

5) In Andhra Pradesh: The World Famous Tirupathi Tirumala Temple is under debilitating siege by the Govt. The criminal destruction of the centuries old historic 1000 pillar Mandapam at TTD with official participation, and proposal to build a ropeway at TTD for turning the sacred shrine into a tourist attraction thus commercializing and desecrating the deeply revered shrine and vitiating its religious sanctity are highly provocative and unsettling. Such precipitous anti-Hindu measures are taken without public debate or the approval of the Hindu community, who are the real owners of temples. Not surprisingly though these illegal, anti-secular and undemocratic acts have generated enormous resentment and therefore, have been universally condemned by all Hindu ranks. Shamefully a former liquor baron was appointed the Chairman of the TTD Board as a reward for helping Congress in the no confidence vote that took place in the Parliament on July 22, 08.

The Temple receives an annual income of Rs. Three Thousand one hundred Crores in the form of direct cash collected from Hundi collections and other sources at the TTD apart from substantial amounts of Gold, Silver and precious stones. Without any constitutional authority a huge portion of the resources of the TTD is utilized for numerous non-Hindu purposes. The regime in office has allowed illegal occupation of some three and a half lakh (3,50,000) acres of Mandir lands in AP in spite of the fact that there is a huge army of some 77,000 bureaucrats in the endowments department supposedly for protecting these assets.

Hindus have no say in how their religious institutions are run and they are at the mercy of a seemingly fanatic Christian CM, who in spite of having taken the oath to uphold the secular constitution, does everything officially and otherwise to de- Hinduise and Christianize the state.

(For more details on temples in the above states and the status of temples under Govt. control in Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Orissa, Maharashtra, Rajasthan, Kashmir and Haryana please refer to Attachment A.)

6) Indian High Courts have declared the laws to control Hindu temples as illegal and unconstitutional. The courts directed state authorities for taking remedial measures.

a) In Karnataka, a division bench of the High Court comprising of Justice R Gururajan and Justice C R Kumaraswamy struck down the endowment Act stating that the legislation violated Articles 14, 25 and 26 of the Constitution which provided for right to equality, freedom of conscience and freedom of profession, practice and propagation of religion and also the freedom to manage the religious affairs; and,

b) Similarly the Allahabad High Court directed the Central and Uttar Pradesh authorities to prepare a scheme for establishing a Board for the governance of the Hindu religious organizations on the pattern of the UP Muslim Waqf Board. Even though our demand is based on the constitutional principle of complete separation of religion and Govt. , in the interim it would be appropriate and reasonable for all state authorities to follow the judgments issued by these highest judicial bodies.

c) Despite such valid judicial decrees the State authorities have grossly misused and abused the powers delegated to them under the Concurrent List (Article 246 (2), Seventh Schedule) on religious institutions. In stead they went ahead and made unwarranted acquisition of temples and squarely discriminated against Hindu religious institutions, while leaving the liberty and freedom of other religionists in managing their institutions untouched and unhindered.

Anticipating possible dishonorable designs in various administrations the Indian Parliament adopted a law in 1991 specifically requiring that -"the status of religious places, as on August 15, 1947 shall be retained". The state officials are duty bound to uphold this law and keep the religious places outside Govt. control as they were in 1947. In case of conflicts or contradictions between the state and national laws - the national law receives precedence. Scholars of constitutional law and judicial bodies have questioned the legality of the practice used by the Govt. Both legislators and cabinets are elected under the decree of the constitution. While administering the oath of office they make a commitment to uphold the Indian Constitution. However, by singling out the Hindu religious infrastructure for discriminative practices they engage in violating the same constitution which they swore to uphold. What an irony!

7) Only dharma Acharyas and saints have the religious and spiritual background and authority to guide religious shrines.

The official grounds of imposing state control upon religion have been as illogical as they have been irrational. And the imposition of such control in a selective manner upon the Hindu temples and the absence of its universal application expose the mockery imbedded in this policy.

For re-examining this erroneous and prejudicial policy the following basic questions must be answered by the Indian state governments. What authority, background and special training the Govt. operatives’ posses for controlling every aspect of the temples - the Hindu cultural centers, when the concept of secularism - neutrality towards religions - is enshrined in the Indian constitution? Why can’t autonomous Hindu Boards govern temples under the guidance of religious leaders, just as it is permissible in the case of other religions? The Waqf Board of Muslims and the management of Christian religious institutions have vast funds, properties and endowments, in addition to the immense flow of foreign funds - yet their independence and autonomy is left intact! Why deny this freedom to Hindus who constitute India’s national majority and are vital for the country’s national unity?

Hinduism: A prescription to uproot radicalism & terrorism.

In today's turbulent world when foundations of human civilization and civil society have been seriously shaken by religious terrorism, jihad and radical ideologies the message of all- embracing Hinduism is needed: The messages of peace, tranquility, non-violence, tolerance and compassion are bound to heal the wounded civilization and lead it on the path of mutual respect and peaceful coexistence. Accordingly people need to be motivated for dharma raksha and dharma prasar. The lack of “dharma shiksha” could be one of the factors responsible for the emergence of the current state of ills in the modern society. This curse must be eradicated with a heavy emphasis on educating the general public.

8) Hindu Advisory Councils should be formed immediately pending the establishment of Hindu Boards: Such community representative Councils could play a vital role in oversight and decision making process of the endowments department and temple Trusts. Additionally, these Councils elected or nominated by the community and national religious leaders could shoulder these responsibilities. They could also take measures to root out desecration and decimation of the religious infrastructure that has taken place during the Govt. control. Taking such steps should signify a prelude towards denationalization and the establishment of autonomous Boards for taking over the charge.

Govt. must realize that the temples and their endowments have been built over centuries by our forefathers and the community is their real owner. Accordingly the community must have the final say in the management and utilization of temple resources. Furthermore, liberating religion from state control would free the Govt. for addressing national rather than parochial interests.

9) Hindu voters must be made aware that Sonia-Singh regime is the same anti- Hindu regime which is:
a) violating the faith of 100 crores Hindus by questioning the existence of Lord Ram and calling Him a mythical being. By demolishing Ram Sethu the regime further inflicts injury upon the majority community's faith and religious practices;
b) Letting states to clamp their control upon temples and Hindu religious properties in an attempt to demolish the Hindu religious infrastructure;
c) remaining callously indifferent on the arrest of the most revered H.H. Kanchi Shankaracharya in Tamil Nadu;
d) Appeasing terrorists and not dealing with them swiftly and firmly. Such deliberate policy of inaction encouraged commando raid on Mumbai killing Hindus by the hundreds;
e) Concocting the phony idea of Hindu terrorism and arresting Sadhvi Pragya;
f) Enforcing religion based reservations, scholarships and Hajj subsidies for Muslims in violation of secular constitution thus re-imposing Jazia tax on Hindus;

g) encouraging pub culture by one of the Ministers leading a "pub bharo" campaign;
and so on.

10) Hindus reject brainwashing and intellectual subversion: It took decades of struggle for India to emerge as an independent country in 1947. Prior to that for centuries both the Muslims and Christians kept it under their occupation and brutal authoritarian rule. Even though now the country is physically free of occupiers but the mind of its intelligentsia and the governing elite continues to suffer with acute traces of indoctrination. The Indian social, political, educational institutions and the media to a large measure are still controlled by anti- Indian and subversive elements.

The Govt. control of temples has deprived Hindus of dharma shiksha, dharma prachar and dharma sewa. They are largely kept ignorant of their heritage while the temple resources are abused, misused and siphoned away to fund the expansion of the predatory religions. Under the secularist philosophical dogma Hindu organizations are questionably branded as being communal and anti-minority. Using such methods of intimidation and contempt, the Indian officialdom and the ruling class compels Hindus to accept subservience without questions, protest and retaliation.

The manipulators of the Indian political system have reduced Hindus to a mere non-entity. That status for a strong national majority is as undemocratic as it is humiliating. They must refuse to accept such an indignity. As a meaningful yet constructive retaliation they need to mobilize, take initiative, come forward, assume leadership and offer sacrifices for bringing about a desirable change.

11) This is our “Dharma Yudh” against the indignities and inhumanities mounted on us. This is our struggle for restoring the appropriate status of the Hindu Samaj. This is our sangharsh to establish the rule of law and real democracy. This is our chance to throw out of power those who insulted our gods, attempted to destroy Hindu history and heritage of India. Therefore, please place every thing else on the backburner and get involved in this "Maha Dharma Yudh". Take leave from every thing else and work for the victory of Hindu Dharma and become a part of the electoral campaign locally, regionally and nationally, and above all amongst dalits, OBCs, weaker segments of the community and the disenfranchised.

The idealism driven young generation should be on the front seat to fuel a new uprising against the de-Indianised elite and the tainted political practices. The youth particularly the College students who have the idealism, energy, maturity and drive for furthering the national cause should plunge into this campaign.

The fate of Hindus in Kashmir and in the North Eastern India should remind them that with a weakling Indian Govt. spearheaded by Sonia-Singh and the Bush loyalist combine they and their loved ones face a clear and present danger in every nook and cranny of India. With the pace setting example of Hindus in Jammu during the historical save Amarnath struggle, they should urgently consider a mass Hindu electoral movement for every legislative and Parliamentary election and assert their right of majority rule - the underlying premise of partition. Letting this opportunity slip away could be extremely costly with far reaching consequences.

12) Hon'ble Voters, Hindu Leaders and activists: We being the democratic majority in India have the right and responsibility to demand the reversal of the anti- Hindu policies of the Sonia- Singh regime, particularly the divisive religion based job reservations and scholarship schemes. These perverse and discriminatory actions are not for strengthening the Indian society but for tipping the balance in favor of loyalist vote banks so that political merchants continue to maintain their firm hold on power. For reversing these disuniting commands and introducing policies with universalist character Hindus must be bold in supporting only those candidates and parties who commit to uphold and work for the majority Hindus interests and for rational governance. Here are a few material commitments they should ask for:

a) "Equal freedom for all religions"; i) Unshackling Hindu religious infrastructure from the unconstitutional Govt. control across India; and, ii) the formation of Interim Advisory Hindu Councils for oversight of the Endowment departments till de-nationalization is complete;

b) "Equal opportunity in Education" for all poor children, as against the Sonia- Singh regime's preferential high scholarships to Muslim students, while the so called 'upper caste poor students' are denied any support whatsoever. (Foot note 1); and,

c) Amend the Constitution for: 1) stopping the abuse of the Concurrent List by the state authorities for taking over temples, resulting in financial suffocation, mismanagement and manipulation of the Hindu religious infrastructure; and, 2) Article 30 that is discriminatory and disallows establishment of Hindu Educational Institutions to help provide education for the poor, by barring them from the needed financial benefits as allowed to the minority institutions.

For the good of India, empowerment of her real majority, her civilization, her immense spirituality and culture, Sonia- Singh regime has to go. In its place a Govt. that genuinely thinks Indian, breathes Indianism, upholds the Indian cultural heritage and commits to protecting Indian citizens against the scourge of terrorism must be voted to power. The country needs leaders and lawmakers who maintain a determined core of beliefs and whose goal of securing equal opportunity and freedom for all Indian religions transcends the fractured nature of politics.

Thanks for your time and "Jai Ho" to the new and transformational regime in the forthcoming elections.

Dr. Jagan Kaul

Krishan Bhatnagar

Hindu Jagran Forum (USA)

March 17 , 2009

email: krishan.kb@verizon.net

Foot note 1) : The irrational educational policy of Sonia- Singh Govt. has now divided poor Indian students into three categories:

a) Preferred religious minorities (read Muslims and Christians) with high financial assistance;

b) SCs and STs on a lower level; and,

c) Total exclusion of students from poor Hindu families (all outside the first two categories) from the so-called upper castes, who don't get assistance worth even a paisa --- -- for details refer: "Equal Opportunity in Education - for All Poor Children : an Election Issue....(Feb 23, 2009)" -- http://www.bharatjagran.com/

Note: This message will soon be posted on : http://www.bharatjagran.com

Attachment A


Govt. control of Hindu religious infrastructure is the instrument of decimating Hindu religion and culture

Hereunder are the examples of the abusive control by states in South India that have virtually engaged in demolishing the Hindu religious infrastructure. The abundance of available evidence has proved beyond any doubt that under government control, the Hindu temples have not only been exploited injuriously but are also being driven to their ultimate extinction.

Nationwide, the famous temples of Jagannath Puri, Tirupati, Kashi Vishwanath, Vaishno Devi, Shirdi , Siddhivinayak, Guruvayoor, Chamunda Devi, Dattapeeth, Kali Mandir of Patiala, Amarnath, Badrinath, Kedarnath, etc. have already been taken under the Govt. control.

In Andhra Pradesh: AP Govt.'s continuing blitzkrieg against Hinduism with massive sale of temple lands seems a policy of looting temples for bringing down Hinduism.

Andhra Pradesh Govt. is going all out for controlling the entire spectrum of Hindu religious institutions. The Endowment Minister Shri Diwakar Reddy announced on March 12, 2007 that AP State Govt. plans to takeover all temples, mutts and religious trusts in the state. Furthermore, the government is planning to amend the AP Endowments Act to enable the endowments commissioner to oversee the day-to-day administration of mutts.

Injurious Governance: As per recent information there are more than 34,000 Temples under Government control who are taking away all the donations given by devotee in the form of cash, clothes, jewellery or in any other form. In return only some 15% of the Revenue is given back for the maintenance of Temples and pay salaries of Priests. More than 40,000 Priests are earning salary below Rs.500 /- Month and over 3,000 Priest who are earning 400 /- for the whole year.

The Major chunk of money is been used by government for various schemes under Indira Yojna, Rajiv Yojna etc etc which in no way is helping either the Hindu community or Hindu Temples.

In 2004, the AP Govt. engineered the entry of JRG Wealth Management Limited, an organization owned by Christians, into the decision making and procurement process of "Prasadam" materials for use in Tirupati temple. Furthermore, the criminal destruction of centuries old historic 1000 pillar Mandapam at TTD with official participation that has been universally condemned by all Hindu ranks and it has generated enormous resentment! The fact that even with huge battalions of staff for oversight, the Govt. could not protect the temple lands simply proves either incompetence, indifference or both of the authorities in performing their responsibilities. Such an irresponsible establishment cannot and must not be trusted to handle these centuries’ old estates and temples belonging to Hindu community.

The world famous TTD with massive income of over Rs. three thousand crores and vast endowments properties and Hindu educational institutions have been infiltrated, particularly by Christians under the patronage of CM Rajashekhar Samuel Reddy. There was a recent news of protests and tension at TTD's Sri Padmavathi Mahila Viswa Vidyalayam (SPMVV) on March 14 , 2007, against university vice chancellor Veena nobel Das for the alleged propagation of Christianity in the varsity and the suicide of a first year post-graduate student K. Uma Maheswari in the varsity hostel room against conversion.

Unwarranted & illegal Actions : Against the spirit of the law, strong opposition and wishes of the Hindu community the AP government wants to: a) take away Rs 500 crores from TTD (Tirupathi Tirumala Devasthanam) supposedly for irrigation projects on top of the Rs.1,500 crores it already owes them; b) build a ropeway at TTD for turning the sacred shrine into a tourist attraction thus commercializing and desecrating the deeply revered shrine and vitiating its religious sanctity; and c) takeover the 500 year old Chilkur Balaji temple so efficiently run by the pujaris and locals. These highly provocative, unsettling and expeditious measures amongst many others are being taken without any public debate or the approval of the Hindu community, who are the real owners.


The World Famous Tirupathi Tirumala Temple is under complete control by the ruling government of Andhra Pradesh. The Temple is receiving an annual income of Rs. 31,00,00,00,000 (Three Thousand one hundred Crores) in the form of direct cash collected from...
a) Hundi Collections
b) Donations towards Annadanam Scheme
c) Large amount of donations collected from Devotees who have donated more than 5 Lakh of Rupees
d) Thula Bharam
e) Renting out 12,000 Cottages to devotees on Daily basis
f) Sale of Prasadam (including Ladoos)
g) Leasing of premises to commercial establishments including shops & Hotels on the Hills
h) Profit from Export of Tonsured hairs of Devotees
i) Profits from TTD Publications
j) Income generated from sale of Sewa Tickets
k) Television Rights

Apart from this The TTD is also generating income in the form of collecting & Pledging the same for Government schemes

In the Financial year 2005-06, The TTD collected 2400 Kilograms of Gold 2,33,000 Kgs of Silver and 543 Kgs of Other Precious Stones including Diamonds, Rubies etc. were collected from Devotees.


Situated 15 Kilometers from the Port city of Vishakapatnam, Simachalam is the Ancient Temple of Narasimha Swamy. Very Recently the Temple has come under siege by Christian Missionaries, who have illegally occupied over 300 Acres of temple land with the help Christian land Mafias and local Congress Leaders. The Devotees are restricted at the foothills by the Christians who abuse our God as demons and physically try stopping Hindus by luring them by providing them basic day to day needs. On many occasions the devotees have complained to the local administration, who are watching all this helplessly. In a span of 20 Months, four churches and 3 convent schools have come up in the vicinity at the foothills and a small temple of Hanuman has also been demolished overnight.


BHADRACHALAM is a famous temple dedicated to Lord Sri Ramachandra and situated on the banks of the sacred river Godavari. Today this temple is also under the siege of Christian Missionaries who have influenced the government to donate 884 Acres out of 1289 Acres of Temple land for their Activities. The Temple which had a passage of 8 entrances has been left with a narrow passage for the devotees to enter the temple.


AT ARASAVALLI, which is practically the same as Srikakulam, the headquarters of the northernmost district of Andhra, there is a temple of Lord Surya. Temples dedicated to the worship of Lord Surya are rare in our country.

Seventh Day Adventist Church has constructed a church right in front of both the entrances. Number of Devotees visiting the ancient temple has come down by 85% in just one year.


SRISAILAM is situated in the thick and inaccessible forests of the Nallamalai hills, in the northeastern portion of the Nandikotkur Taluk of Kurnool District. It lies on a straight line west of Vijayawada, right as it were in the centre of South India. It is 73 miles north of Nandyal Railway Station.

Puranas have described this abode of Mahadev as Prantha Jyothirlinga which is situated all sides by mountains which legend says that our great Rishis and Munnis did penance.
The Endowment department has sold over 1600 Acres of Temple Land surrounding the temple to various Christian Organisations including Tribal Gospel


MANGALAGIRI is situated on the Bezwada-Guntur road and is about 8 miles by road from Vijayawada. On the top of the Mangalagiri hill there is a famous temple called the Panakala Nrusimhaswamy temple, which has been attracting pilgrims for a very long time, and from all parts of the country. The nearest railway station is Mangalagiri on the Guntur Vijayawada line but to visit the temple, the better course would be to get down either at Vijayawada or at Guntur and take bus connections.

This ancient Temple which has the largest Gopuram approximately 14 Floors constructed by King Yudhistra has been under the attack from Christian Missionaries. Due to Poverty stricken over 35% of the population are forced to convert to christianity and others are forced to leave in fear. Hindus are forced to visit the temple between 10 A.M - 1.P.M because of fear of attack from Christians who are residing in large number at the foothills.


Ahobilam is located in Karnool district of Andhra Pradesh in the hills of the eastern ghats, about 400 KM northwest of Chennai. The temple consists of nine shrines to Lord Narasimha located around a 35 KM circle in dense forest surrounded by wild Animals.

Not many know, Ahobilam is the same place where Lord Narasimha had taken Incarnation and had killed the Demon Hiranayakashayapu. Lot of evidence is available even today - e.g. : a) Place where Lord Narasimha Appeared, b) Cave School of Prahalad, c) Vascul (door entrance) on which lord killed the Demon; d) Palace Remains of Demon Hirayanayakashayapu.

Unfortunately, no Government of Andhra Pradesh took any interest to develop or provide facilities to the oldest temple on this Earth. Poojas and aratis is conducted in only 3 temples daily and annually once for the remaining 9 temples which are in thick forest.

The Negligence on the part of the government is helping Christian Missionaries to illegally occupy Temple land and are slowly taken up the task to destroy the ancient remains of Hindus temples.

In Tamil Nadu, H.H. Shankaracharya who whose status is not less than that of the Pope for Hindus, was arrested on Diwali night in 2004. He was humiliated, put in jail without bail and treated like a common criminal. Such a barbaric action against the most revered leader of the highly civilized and non-violent faith was tantamount to a serious assault on Hindu religion and psyche. It is over so many years now and neither the case against him has been proven nor has he been exonerated.

The statue of E V Ramasamy Naicker - Periyar for the devotees of Dravidianism has been alowed to be installed in front of the Rajagopuram of Srirangam temple. He was a known Hindu-baiter and will obviously hurt the sentiments of many. He was a man who made a life out mocking the Hindu sensibilities and sentiments. But he did that in his individual capacity. By installing his statue where Hindus congregate in large numbers, the government, seems to have given institutionalised legitimacy to his acts.

Last year (2008) the Diskhidars (around a dozen of them) of the Chidambaram Natarajar Temple were arrested on foisted charges by the TN Police with regards to the issue concerning the singing of Tamil Hymns inside the temple.

In Kerala: the Govt. hastily promulgated an ordinance on February 4, 2007 to disband The Travancore and Cochin Autonomous Devaswom Boards (TCDB) and usurped their authority. The timing, intent and integrity of the said ordinance was extremely suspicious and questionable particularly in view of the impending session of the State Assembly and the existence of a 3 man commission appointed by the High Court for investigating the allegations of corruption.

In one fiscal year Secular Kerala’s treasury was filled with Rs 268 crore solely by the revenue from Temples under Travancore Devaswom Board, Cochin Devaswom Board and Guruvayur Devaswom. How much of the money was used for temple maintenance and Hindu causes is not revealed.

According to the latest reports out of tens of thousands of temples that have abnormally been rendered dysfunctional only a few hundred are currently fully operational. As if that was not enough, under the Kerala Land Reforms Act, 13,000 acres of Guruvayoor’s land has been reduced to 230 acres amounting to 98% land loot. The revenue of this Hindu entity is subject to misuse even loot by the state authorities. In order to appease the officially inspired Christian protesters and promote their electoral base the officials unilaterally abandoned the construction of railway line from Kottayam to Erumeli to Hindu Hill Shrine.


In Karnataka, the government has set new standards of lawlessness by taxing the temples and without any justifiable legal authority simply diverting their funds to enhance the Muslim run Madrassas and Christian run churches - both being the adversarial religions against Hinduism. Not even in the godless Soviet Union was one religion sacrificed in favor of the other. Clearly no law of the land gives any right to the establishment for siphoning Hindu funds for promoting Islam and Christianity.

Statement of Receipts and disbursements of revenues from Temples
Govt. of Karnataka
Statement of Allocation of Revenue for development purposes

Revenue/Expense From Temples

Revenue collected ( Rs. in Crores )
1997-98 1998-99 1999-00 2000-01 2001-02 2002-03
58.63 65.35 69.98 71 72 79
No. of Temples
2,67,073 2,67,000 2,62,035 2,54,038 2,61,012 2,48,196

1997-98 1998-99 1999-00 2000-01 2001-02 2002-03

( Rs. in Crores )

Madarsas, Mosques, Haj committee*
Compensation for Haj Pilgrim Victims

14.25 27 35 45.34 50 58
13.21 1.15
Christian institutions, churches
5 8 8 10 10 12.75
Temple renovation & maintenance
16.5 15 13.75 11.5 10 7.1

22** 17.35 5.1 2

* Disbursement for minority comm. development
** Women and child welfare programs

Note: These are approx. Figures
Source: Chief Minister's Office, Vidhan Soudha, Bangalore PH: 2225 3414 / 2225 3424

In Orissa the NDA state government was reported planning to sell some 70,000 acres of Jagannath temple endowment lands due to a financial crunch brought about by the government mismanagement. These kind of ill-advised schemes are likely to result in the eventual closure of the famous temple. This financial stagnation was brought about by the corrupt and inefficient government control of the temple.

In Rajasthan : Through an illogical and illegal scheme supposedly to generate funds for protecting and renovating the neglected religious places, the BJP's Rajasthan government decided auctioning off temples translating into transferring the control and use of temples to the highest bidders even if they are from the competing religions. Under the project 'Apna Dham, Apna Kam, Apna Nam' a 30-year lease would be signed between the state government and private bidders on build-operate transfer basis like the national highways. The state authorities have made it amply clear that these desecrations and insults through business like transactions of shrines by the Rajasthan tourism department are limited to Hindu shrines and do not apply to mosques or churches.

The Archaeological Survey of India acquired jurisdiction over the famous temple in Pushkar, Rajasthan."

In Maharashtra, the state legislature passed and the governor promulgated a law paving the way for the authorities to interfere directly and indirectly for meddling in the rich Shirdi Sai Baba temple management, its assets, estates and revenues. This is in addition to govt. control of the famous Siddhivinayak Temple.

In Kashmir while the entire non-Muslim populations has been driven from the region and thousands of Hindus & Sikhs and their leaders have been murdered, hundreds of their temples have been looted, destroyed, occupied or converted into mosques by terrorists and their local collaborators without any prospects of their return or rebuilding. Having lost the lives of hundreds of pilgrims in the past the yatra of the Amarnath shrine, its scheduling and devotees safety remains at the mercy of Kashmir Chief Minister Mr. Mufti and his antagonistic Islamic regime. Pointing to the real character of this disloyal regime one of its senior ministers recently claimed that Kashmir was a disputed territory and therefore, should be jointly governed by India and Pakistan.

A) In February 1986 some 39 temples were destroyed in Anantnag, Srinagar, Budgam, Kupwara and Baramula districts **

B) From 1987 to 1990 at least fifteen temples were destroyed **

C) Temples desecrated and damaged in Kashmir from 1990 to December 1992 **


** for details refer: "J& K - Hon'ble CM : Massive destruction of temples in J&K and Talibanization of the state (Feb. 21, 2008)" -- http://www.bharatjagran.com/
Haryana Government enacted legislation to take over dozens of temples in the State, following closely on the heels of the "Kurukshetra Shrine Bill" that allowed the State to take over the functioning of 75 temples in the Kurukshetra area. Haryana was a Congress ruled state (August 2003).
What are the powers of the EC? What can they do against VG?

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