05-17-2005, 11:55 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Yes, I expected some such remark from you. You naturaaly talk down Vaishnavas who differ from your view.Bhagavandas Babaji actually saw and met Sri Ramakrishna and accepted that Sri Ramakrishna was as great as Lord Chaitanya. So naturally your sectarian mind rejects Bhagavandas Babaji as a Vaishnava.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->First off, the RK mission's published books claiming Sri Ramakrishna is an avatara of Lord Chaitanya is not based on this unknown personage Bhagavandas, but on the pronouncements of Sarada devi, Sri Ramakrishna's wife. She is reported to have observed his ecstacies and said, "Just like Chaitanya, he is an avatara of God". Also, in the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna, he says "I am Nimai". He also said at other times, "I came as Rama, I came as Krishna". So let's leave it at that. In any case, <i>don't side-track the issue with unverifiable quibbles</i>. The point I was making was this -- <i>please demonstrate to me any similarity or continuity between the teachings of Lord Chaitanya and that of Sri Ramakrishna.</i> The Chaitanya Charitaamrita (and the writings of the Goswamis) are available. And the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna is available. The Gospel book is full of anecdotes, parables and analogies that Sri Ramakrishna related which were originally spoken by Chaitanya mahaprabhu (but no acknowledgement is made of the source). But apart from the patchy storytelling, the whole plot is quite different. I invite you to read both books, the Gospel, and Chaitanya Charitamrita.
About Sri Ramakrishna's experiments with Tantra: It is a touchy subject and the RK mission rarely publicizes it because the Indian public is rather conservative. But we know what Tantra involves. And of course it involves self-control. I didn't say otherwise. No need to be defensive. My only point was that this part has nothing to do with Chaitanya Vaishnavism.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Carl,
You do not seem to read what you have yourself written. You have quoted Sarada Devi saying,"Just like Chaitanya .....". Yes, Sri Ramakrishna was JUST LIKE Chaitanya. That DOES NOT mean Sri Ramakrishna was Chaitanya. Don't you understand simple English?
You have then gone on claiming that the Gospel is not the same as Chaitanya Charitamrita. You are right. Sri Ramakrishna was just like Lord Chaitanya but not Lord Chaitanya himself as your quote of Sarada Devi shows . So why should the Gospel and the Chaitanya Charitamrita be exactly the same?
They won't be. Your claim that Sri Ramakrishna's maya theory is borrowed from Lord Chaitanya is also bogus. The Saktas of Bengal adapted Kashmiri Saivism for their theory. You are making all these bogus claims because you are ignorant of the issues.
You have made another false and fatous claim that RK mission rarely publicizes Ramakrishna's experiments with Tantra. Why call his Tantric sadhana experiments? Tantra is a regular spiritual practice. It is RK mission that has detailed Ramakrishna's Tantra sadhana.
You have written,"But we know what Tantra involves". Yes, I know what Tantra involves. But do you?
You claimed that Ramakrishna involved himself in massages. Please give exact reference on the massage part. RK mission, unlike your false claim, has detailed Sri Ramakrishna's experiences with Tantra. For example, once Yogeswari brought a woman in Sri Ramakrishna's room at midnight. Yogeswar asked the woman to disrobe and then asked Sri Ramakrishna to meditate on this woma's lap. Apparently this is one of the 64 Tantric sadhana. Sri Ramakrishna sat on the woman's lap and plunged into samadhi. When he came out of samadhi he found himself alone. Then Yogeswari came into the room and told him that his Tantric sadhana is at end. Yogeswari told Sri Ramakrishna that usually most spiritual aspirants ask her to remove the woman within a few minutes. She told Sri Ramakrishna that she has never seen anyone go into samadhi while seated on the lap of a naked woman. All the details are given in Swami Saradananda's "Sri Ramakrishna: The Great Master". So where did you get the idea, a false one, that RK mission does not publicize Sri Ramakrishna's Tantric sadhana?
About Sri Ramakrishna's experiments with Tantra: It is a touchy subject and the RK mission rarely publicizes it because the Indian public is rather conservative. But we know what Tantra involves. And of course it involves self-control. I didn't say otherwise. No need to be defensive. My only point was that this part has nothing to do with Chaitanya Vaishnavism.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Carl,
You do not seem to read what you have yourself written. You have quoted Sarada Devi saying,"Just like Chaitanya .....". Yes, Sri Ramakrishna was JUST LIKE Chaitanya. That DOES NOT mean Sri Ramakrishna was Chaitanya. Don't you understand simple English?
You have then gone on claiming that the Gospel is not the same as Chaitanya Charitamrita. You are right. Sri Ramakrishna was just like Lord Chaitanya but not Lord Chaitanya himself as your quote of Sarada Devi shows . So why should the Gospel and the Chaitanya Charitamrita be exactly the same?
They won't be. Your claim that Sri Ramakrishna's maya theory is borrowed from Lord Chaitanya is also bogus. The Saktas of Bengal adapted Kashmiri Saivism for their theory. You are making all these bogus claims because you are ignorant of the issues.
You have made another false and fatous claim that RK mission rarely publicizes Ramakrishna's experiments with Tantra. Why call his Tantric sadhana experiments? Tantra is a regular spiritual practice. It is RK mission that has detailed Ramakrishna's Tantra sadhana.
You have written,"But we know what Tantra involves". Yes, I know what Tantra involves. But do you?
You claimed that Ramakrishna involved himself in massages. Please give exact reference on the massage part. RK mission, unlike your false claim, has detailed Sri Ramakrishna's experiences with Tantra. For example, once Yogeswari brought a woman in Sri Ramakrishna's room at midnight. Yogeswar asked the woman to disrobe and then asked Sri Ramakrishna to meditate on this woma's lap. Apparently this is one of the 64 Tantric sadhana. Sri Ramakrishna sat on the woman's lap and plunged into samadhi. When he came out of samadhi he found himself alone. Then Yogeswari came into the room and told him that his Tantric sadhana is at end. Yogeswari told Sri Ramakrishna that usually most spiritual aspirants ask her to remove the woman within a few minutes. She told Sri Ramakrishna that she has never seen anyone go into samadhi while seated on the lap of a naked woman. All the details are given in Swami Saradananda's "Sri Ramakrishna: The Great Master". So where did you get the idea, a false one, that RK mission does not publicize Sri Ramakrishna's Tantric sadhana?