05-11-2005, 10:49 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-12-2005, 01:05 AM by Bharatvarsh.)
"Really? Please read about what "Shri Ramakrishna's religion" is about. Apparently he experimented with all different philosophies, sects and cults -- INCLUDING Christianity and Islam (which you so hate) -- and declared that they were all equally valid."
I thought we were discussing Vivekananda, we r not talking about Ramkrishna, if he contradicted his guru is that some kind of crime, everyone does not blindly nod and agree with his guru, ppl come to their own conclusions.
"That Vivekananda chose to say things directly contradicting his guru is just one off the contradictions. To give another example, Vivekananda, who resurrected Shankara's Advaita as the last word, actually says in one place that Buddhism represents the epitome of Hindu thought! Try and figure that one out."
I know and so do others, if u don't agree with it no Hindu nationalist will force u to agree with it.
"If you are attracted by Swami Vivekananda's nationalist rhetoric, his preoccupation with religious demographics and his offensive and sad blasphemy of Prophet Muhammad (while his guru endorsed the same person!), then so be it. But please don't pretend to engage in any serious theological debate."
Swami Vivekananda may have been preoccupied with religious demographics but there are good reasons for that too, why don't all u IKSCON followers go and live in Pakistan and see how Hindus are treated when they become a minority. It is very easy to preach when u r safe and secure but tell any Hindu Pakistani that demographics don't matter he is sure to laught at u. And what is blaspheming Muhammad, atleast he spoke the truth about Muhammad unlike politically correct Hindus who like to praise Muhammad to flatter Muslims, whether or not his guru endorsed Muhmmad does not matter, what he said about Muhammad's fanaticism is the truth whether u like it or not.
"As for your gratuitous invective about "ISKCON", I can only say that it is your own imagination. Most ISKCON members willingly call themselves "Hindu" for "vyavaharik" practical purposes, but when it comes to philosophy, they make sure to distinguish and inform the listener that there are different "types" within this Hinduism umbrella. What's wrong with that? BTW, the fastest growing congregations for the Gaudiya Vaishnava sampradaya are in INDIA now, followed closely by Russia."
ISKCON are not Hindus, they themselves make it clear. Read the following article:
http://www.rickross.com/reference/krishna/krishna8.html
If they are Hindus then the following statement is quite a breakaway from Hinduism:
"The Krishna consciousness movement has nothing to do with the Hindu religion or any system of religion.... One should clearly understand that the Krishna consciousness movement is not preaching the so-called Hindu religion."
http://www.rickross.com/reference/krishna/krishna8.html
This is a complete breakaway from Hindus and Hinduism, there are theological diff's and they are Gaudiya Vaishnavas, but here Prabhupada himself made it clear that what they preach has nothing to do with Hinduism so how can we consider them to be Hindus.
And what about ISKCON preaching that Allah and Krishna are the same, if they are the same then what is the point of Krishna conciousness movement if Muslims already worship Krishna under the name Allah.
As for the fastest growing movement statement, can u provide statistics from India about ISKCON being the fastest growing movement without just making blanket statements.
As I said before ISKCON can call themselves whatever they want to, but they are not representative of the majority of Hindu Vaishnavas just like Vivekananda was not representative of every Hindu on the planet. They are not Hindus and they themselves made it quite clear, so stop trying to say that they are Hindus.
I thought we were discussing Vivekananda, we r not talking about Ramkrishna, if he contradicted his guru is that some kind of crime, everyone does not blindly nod and agree with his guru, ppl come to their own conclusions.
"That Vivekananda chose to say things directly contradicting his guru is just one off the contradictions. To give another example, Vivekananda, who resurrected Shankara's Advaita as the last word, actually says in one place that Buddhism represents the epitome of Hindu thought! Try and figure that one out."
I know and so do others, if u don't agree with it no Hindu nationalist will force u to agree with it.
"If you are attracted by Swami Vivekananda's nationalist rhetoric, his preoccupation with religious demographics and his offensive and sad blasphemy of Prophet Muhammad (while his guru endorsed the same person!), then so be it. But please don't pretend to engage in any serious theological debate."
Swami Vivekananda may have been preoccupied with religious demographics but there are good reasons for that too, why don't all u IKSCON followers go and live in Pakistan and see how Hindus are treated when they become a minority. It is very easy to preach when u r safe and secure but tell any Hindu Pakistani that demographics don't matter he is sure to laught at u. And what is blaspheming Muhammad, atleast he spoke the truth about Muhammad unlike politically correct Hindus who like to praise Muhammad to flatter Muslims, whether or not his guru endorsed Muhmmad does not matter, what he said about Muhammad's fanaticism is the truth whether u like it or not.
"As for your gratuitous invective about "ISKCON", I can only say that it is your own imagination. Most ISKCON members willingly call themselves "Hindu" for "vyavaharik" practical purposes, but when it comes to philosophy, they make sure to distinguish and inform the listener that there are different "types" within this Hinduism umbrella. What's wrong with that? BTW, the fastest growing congregations for the Gaudiya Vaishnava sampradaya are in INDIA now, followed closely by Russia."
ISKCON are not Hindus, they themselves make it clear. Read the following article:
http://www.rickross.com/reference/krishna/krishna8.html
If they are Hindus then the following statement is quite a breakaway from Hinduism:
"The Krishna consciousness movement has nothing to do with the Hindu religion or any system of religion.... One should clearly understand that the Krishna consciousness movement is not preaching the so-called Hindu religion."
http://www.rickross.com/reference/krishna/krishna8.html
This is a complete breakaway from Hindus and Hinduism, there are theological diff's and they are Gaudiya Vaishnavas, but here Prabhupada himself made it clear that what they preach has nothing to do with Hinduism so how can we consider them to be Hindus.
And what about ISKCON preaching that Allah and Krishna are the same, if they are the same then what is the point of Krishna conciousness movement if Muslims already worship Krishna under the name Allah.
As for the fastest growing movement statement, can u provide statistics from India about ISKCON being the fastest growing movement without just making blanket statements.
As I said before ISKCON can call themselves whatever they want to, but they are not representative of the majority of Hindu Vaishnavas just like Vivekananda was not representative of every Hindu on the planet. They are not Hindus and they themselves made it quite clear, so stop trying to say that they are Hindus.