Unmasking AIT

[Husky]

Something added to a post in another thread that is relevant to this one:



[quote name='Husky' date='16 June 2015 - 09:39 PM' timestamp='1434470463' post='117826']

Can scroll down here (down to the photo captioned with "Harappa Period Chariot from Daimabad, Maharashtra, Source: Upinder Sindh/Sali 1986:477-479") to see obvious ratha-s in IVC. The same link includes a photo captioned with "This copper chariot was found by M.S. Vats, the Director of the ASI, at Harappa. Dates back to 3000 BC. Oldest so far found in world." At least these 2 photos of IVC artifacts are unmistakable. (Meanwhile, IE-ism wants to claim rathas were a development in 1600 BCE - since in Euro/Steppe space they can only trace chariots that far back apparently - and that all IE migrations that brought the 'IE' chariot 'innovation' therefore have about 1600 BCE as a ceiling.)

[/quote]



Archiving:



1. The 1600 BCE ref is from this comment:



www.librarything.com/topic/141380

For those who are interested in serious thinking about this long-standing question, here are my comments on my reading of Robert Drews' 'The Coming of the Greeks: Indo-European conquests in the Aegean and the Near East':



"Splendid example of hypothesis construction & testing. Effect is to strengthen greatly the Gamkrelidze/Ivanov hypothesis on the IE homeland (Armenia/Eastern Anatolia), with corrected chronology (2nd M not 4th or 5th) and good archaeological data. Gimbutas ('out of the steppes') & Renfrew ('plodding farmers demic diffusion') loose credibility.



""All the IE movements of the Bronze Age that we know about are takeovers, date no earlier than ca.1600BC, & are associated with chariot warfare." (p153)



""Chariot warfare, along with 'the Greeks', came to Greece ca.1600BC ... similar in the takeover of nthwestern India by the Aryans, of southern Mesopotamia by the Kassites, of Egypt by the Hyksos, of Mitanni by Aryans ... All of the takeovers occurred within a few generations after the perfection, around the middle of the C17thBC, of chariot warfare ..."(pp170-172).



"" ... 'the coming of the Greeks' did not ethnically transform the land; instead, it seems to have superimposed upon the indigenous population of Greece a small minority of PIE speakers. In this respect, as in its date, the Hellenization of Greece thus seems to parallel the Aryanization of nthwest India" (pp199-200).



(Oooh. ^Is that the "Aryan AND Dravoodian" theory for Greece? Wouldn't wish that on an enemy. Well, on christoislam, sure. Would call down a pox and death on christoislam.

But, poor Greeks of the Olympic religion: welcome to the Pit.

Guess it was expected, though, since the genetic data for the Greeks doesn't favour the oryan markers that the Ukraine-pushers were favouring. As seen in stuff pasted 2 posts up and above. And I guess European genetics studies would have known this for some years.)



"PS August 2012: If we factor in the Ryan/Pitman hypothesis on the catastrophic filling of the Euxine around 5600 BCE as the seas rose in the deglaciation of the Holocene a process that continues today, then it becomes interesting that all the arguments on the origins of the IEs focus on places all round the Black Sea - the 'Kurgan' theory of Marija Gimbutas and many others including David Anthony focussed on the northern and north-eastern steppes; Renfrew et al focussed on the spread of agriculture to Europe out of Anatolia; and the linguistic theories of Gamkrelidze and Ivanov, supported by Drews albeit with much lower chronology, focussed on eastern Anatolia and Armenia, particularly around Lake Van. Perhaps the conceptualisers should be thinking more sub-marine at this stage!"

2. The Harappan images of chariots in the IVC referred to in this post's opening quoteblock, are at

aryaninvasionmyth.wordpress.com/2012/10/01/3/



aryaninvasionmyth.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/chariot-daimabad-2.jpg

Harappa Period Chariot from Daimabad, Maharashtra, Source: Upinder Sindh/Sali 1986:477-479



Chariot from Daimabad: Harrapan period site;

Now - in pre-emption - that may not look like and may not be horses harnessed to the ratha (btw, the chariot looks rather like what Greeks would use later).

But the point is that it IS a chariot.

Besides, none less than the Great God Thor (of the heathens in the NW of Europe) himself rides a chariot with IIRC 2 *goats* harnessed to it. And *that* instance of a chariot is IIRC used as proof of chariots in the Germanic/Nordic case.



Therefore, in India too it should not matter as to what species of domesticated animals are tied to the front of the single pair of wheels: as long as it's a chariot. Which it clearly is.



And this is rather a beauty too:

aryaninvasionmyth.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/chariot-harappa-e1349088737873.jpg

This copper chariot was found by M.S. Vats, the Director of the ASI, at Harappa. Dates back to 3000 BC. Oldest so far found in world.



Harappa chariot, Harappa copper chariot, the first covered chariot of the world



(besides it being almost 1.5 millennia older apparently than they can trace *any* kind of chariots in any part of the "IE" world at least....

And it is fair to infer that the covered chariot may be in consequence to uncovered models preceding it: which would date uncovered kinds in Harrappa/IVC = the Hindoo homeland still older than 3000 BCE.)



found by M.S. Vats at Harappa.

Another related Harappan image is at the link:



aryaninvasionmyth.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/chriot-harappa-brooklyn.jpg

Harappan Chariot toy kept at the Brooklyn University Museum



Source Brooklyn Museum website.

(Still, a single pair of wheels - so not a cart - harnessed to domesticated animals. But the first 2 images are more decisive and less liable to be dismissed.)



No doubt there'll be excuses from P/IE-ists about

- the covered chariot photo with the man seated in front on the left is not clear enough. It is probably a piece of metal smelted wrong. And pareidolia (essentially seeing familiar shapes in random ones) takes care of the rest. Not evidence. Dismissed.

- tying donkeys or other non-true horses or any other 4 legged domesticated animals don't count as chariots. Unless it's Thor or any another European God, in which case it is of course a chariot.

- toy chariots don't count. It merely proves an Indian dream of a chariot, realised only by invading oryans from the steppes/wherever millennia later. Possibly shows that the Indians of India were merely anticipating an invasion by their superiors, the white oryans; you know, the way some native Americans in the Americas allegedly had a prophecy of 'white' aliens entering their lands in ships, which then 'came true' in the later half of the 2nd millennium CE.

- copper toy chariots don't count. As copper is not bronze which is of the (later part of the) Bronze age. "But..." "You do agree that copper is not bronze don't you, Don't You?"

- Or the most important reason of them all: none of these could be a chariot, because then the presence of chariots in India would precede 1600 BCE/1800 BCE and thus precedes the Oryan invasion of India. "I mean, chariots in India all the way in 3000 BCE? I don't think so." And we all *know* only Oryans invented and brought chariots to India. No earlier than 1800 BCE, but rather after 1600 BCE and - as per Victor Mair (IIRC) - closer to1000 BCE. Etc. AIT QED.