Post 6/?
This post is on Magical men with their magical chants and rituals. How "uniquely oryan/IE" are they. Or rather: Not.
Just some examples for statements made earlier.
Retreading the following link, since it mentions Holy men with Magical powers who say Magical Chants to sap a dangerous dragon's strength.
And who are these magical men? They're Pacific Islanders. Will try to *make* them IE later on, to save Mair the trouble.
The list of holy magical men chanting incantations is endless. You could find them in countless African narratives.
(But if it happens in China - also non-IE - it must be Oryan onlee, and will be IE-ised tomorrow.)
www.blackdrago.com/fame/kataore.htm
Look how these adept holy men (tohunga) needed to chant mantras at the dragon (taniwha). As stated before, the conclusion is that this rogue dragon needs to be magical, else the heroes could have slain it without help of the tohunga.
"Tomorrow" the beady-eyed PIE-ists will realise that next they need to claim all of the Pacific too, else this sort of "magical" behaviour isn't uniquely PIE anymore. :Oh-Woe: Can't have that now, can we?
So the PIE-ists will twist the fact that the Pacific and Americas* were populated from Asia to argue that "therefore" IE - "having influenced E Asia (and southern Asia=India)" - IE thus also indirectly influenced the Pacific when this got populated. (Except that the time ranges don't match, but never mind.) And then PIE-ism will declare that all magical-ness is therefore still "PIE QED".
Except (<- that word again) that
- *the Americas were peopled at a point in time long before PIE-ists can allege IE-ism must take credit for magical chants - and oracling, rain dancing, exorcisms, etc - there. I'm sure that won't detain PIE-ists though: they will eventually come up with some convoluted theory of ancient constant contact between IE-(influenced) populations in Asia and the ancient Americas, and one-way traffic of ideas from Asia to Americas via the Pacific Ocean.
Unless of course, PIE-ists want to skip past calling in Leif Erikson and resort in great desperattion to blowing life into the more recent but unpopular Pict Theory to declare that IE transferred these things to North America's native Americans from W-Europe via the Atlantic Ocean much later.
(The Pict Theory in brief again: Alleged European "discovery" of Americas by "IE" Picts before Leif Erikson, the Viking. IIRC Picts were chased/harried/ethnically cleansed from continental western Europe to British Isles and ultimately to extinction as a distinct population first by the Celts and then by Romans and possibly Angles and/or Saxons too somewhere in there. The "Picts Discovered America" theory - which still hasn't caught on, since Leif is still credited with being the first European to 'discover' the US - is that some Picts may have got chased west so often, they went all the way west into America. Anything's possible. But to prove that native Americans got their magical-ness from IE, PIE-ists will still need to provide evidence of transfer of these ideas.)
- Sub-Saharan Africa had magical chants for healing, for in battle, for abhicharam, for invocation and sacrifice, oracling, dancing for various magical purposes including rain dancing*, and just about Everything. And Africa had all this from Ur-Oer-history. But I forget, nobody ever credits Africa with anything. (Personally I'd like to know what - among religious practices and views/ideas that are familiar to heathens elsewhere - Africans didn't have. Beats me.)
And there are ancient African communities that had a whole culture surrounding their cattle. Come to think of it, they were nomadic pastoralists too. With domesticated cows. Whose milk the humans drank. (What's that African community that pricks their cows to let a drop of its blood trickle into their milk and then drink it that way? Was it the pygmees? But can't remember.)
* Repeating:
African rain dancing, which colonial missionaries grudgingly documented as having been effective, since converted sheep could not bring back the rain whereas it was still plenty in the regions of the unconverted: after conversion "the rain would not even look at us with one eye" or something - as per the Beeb IIRC. Yes, yes it was. To repeat (but wow, for once I remembered the phrase rather accurately - well, it was poetic and painfully poignant, how was I to forget):
bbc.co.uk/worldservice/africa/features/storyofafrica/6chapter5.shtml
=More proof jeebus never existed and that the African heathens' Gods are forever real. Also seen in:
Anyway, just proves that African Gods are clearly real: they made it rain when propitiated by sacred established ritual. And they only abandoned any Africans when such Africans abandoned them. (Sort of what has happened to every once-heathen population when it gets brainwashed into missionary cults.)
A heathen [population] is nothing without its Gods. A heathen [population] only finds fulfillment and completion when it has grabbed all its ancestral Gods to itself. As a baby orang-utan clings to its mother and thereby becomes secure, but any that may let go and becomes lost and abandoned, dies from depravation.
This post is on Magical men with their magical chants and rituals. How "uniquely oryan/IE" are they. Or rather: Not.
Just some examples for statements made earlier.
Retreading the following link, since it mentions Holy men with Magical powers who say Magical Chants to sap a dangerous dragon's strength.
And who are these magical men? They're Pacific Islanders. Will try to *make* them IE later on, to save Mair the trouble.
The list of holy magical men chanting incantations is endless. You could find them in countless African narratives.
(But if it happens in China - also non-IE - it must be Oryan onlee, and will be IE-ised tomorrow.)
www.blackdrago.com/fame/kataore.htm
Quote:Basic Information
Type/Species: Taniwha
Origin: Maori (MÃÂori) Mythology, New Zealand
About Kataore
Kataore lived in a cave located near Rotorua, in the Tiki-tapu district. Kataore the taniwha was something of a pet to the local chief, Tangaroa-mihi. As Kataore grew, the chief lost control of the taniwha, and Kataore became violent and began to eat travelers. The last human that he managed to devour was Tuhikarapapa, a high-born young maiden who was going to marry Reretoi. [1]
Reretoi, enraged at the loss of his wife to be, gathered people to help him slay the monster. He made certain that some of the [color="#0000FF"]tohunga, which are holy men with magical powers[/color], could help him, for they had the ability to sap the dragon's power. When he had gathered enough men, Reretoi marched with them out to kill Kataore, the green-eyed dragon.
Pitaka, now on his third encounter with dangerous taniwha, came to help slay the dragon. He and some of the warriors grabbed a few fresh nooses and snuck into the dragon's cave. Since [color="#0000FF"]the dragon had become weak and tired from the tohunga's magic chants, [/color]they easily slipped the nooses around the dragon's neck and raced out of the cave. [1]
When the men left the cave, the others began to pull on the ropes, which were now fixed around the dragon's neck. At first, Kataore began to writhe as they pulled him out of the cave, but the ropes only became tighter, and the dragon lost his strength.
With that, the men leaped upon Kataore and slew him. They cooked his heart, and they named that ridge Te Ahi-Manawa. [1]
Look how these adept holy men (tohunga) needed to chant mantras at the dragon (taniwha). As stated before, the conclusion is that this rogue dragon needs to be magical, else the heroes could have slain it without help of the tohunga.
"Tomorrow" the beady-eyed PIE-ists will realise that next they need to claim all of the Pacific too, else this sort of "magical" behaviour isn't uniquely PIE anymore. :Oh-Woe: Can't have that now, can we?
So the PIE-ists will twist the fact that the Pacific and Americas* were populated from Asia to argue that "therefore" IE - "having influenced E Asia (and southern Asia=India)" - IE thus also indirectly influenced the Pacific when this got populated. (Except that the time ranges don't match, but never mind.) And then PIE-ism will declare that all magical-ness is therefore still "PIE QED".
Except (<- that word again) that
- *the Americas were peopled at a point in time long before PIE-ists can allege IE-ism must take credit for magical chants - and oracling, rain dancing, exorcisms, etc - there. I'm sure that won't detain PIE-ists though: they will eventually come up with some convoluted theory of ancient constant contact between IE-(influenced) populations in Asia and the ancient Americas, and one-way traffic of ideas from Asia to Americas via the Pacific Ocean.
Unless of course, PIE-ists want to skip past calling in Leif Erikson and resort in great desperattion to blowing life into the more recent but unpopular Pict Theory to declare that IE transferred these things to North America's native Americans from W-Europe via the Atlantic Ocean much later.
(The Pict Theory in brief again: Alleged European "discovery" of Americas by "IE" Picts before Leif Erikson, the Viking. IIRC Picts were chased/harried/ethnically cleansed from continental western Europe to British Isles and ultimately to extinction as a distinct population first by the Celts and then by Romans and possibly Angles and/or Saxons too somewhere in there. The "Picts Discovered America" theory - which still hasn't caught on, since Leif is still credited with being the first European to 'discover' the US - is that some Picts may have got chased west so often, they went all the way west into America. Anything's possible. But to prove that native Americans got their magical-ness from IE, PIE-ists will still need to provide evidence of transfer of these ideas.)
- Sub-Saharan Africa had magical chants for healing, for in battle, for abhicharam, for invocation and sacrifice, oracling, dancing for various magical purposes including rain dancing*, and just about Everything. And Africa had all this from Ur-Oer-history. But I forget, nobody ever credits Africa with anything. (Personally I'd like to know what - among religious practices and views/ideas that are familiar to heathens elsewhere - Africans didn't have. Beats me.)
And there are ancient African communities that had a whole culture surrounding their cattle. Come to think of it, they were nomadic pastoralists too. With domesticated cows. Whose milk the humans drank. (What's that African community that pricks their cows to let a drop of its blood trickle into their milk and then drink it that way? Was it the pygmees? But can't remember.)
* Repeating:
African rain dancing, which colonial missionaries grudgingly documented as having been effective, since converted sheep could not bring back the rain whereas it was still plenty in the regions of the unconverted: after conversion "the rain would not even look at us with one eye" or something - as per the Beeb IIRC. Yes, yes it was. To repeat (but wow, for once I remembered the phrase rather accurately - well, it was poetic and painfully poignant, how was I to forget):
bbc.co.uk/worldservice/africa/features/storyofafrica/6chapter5.shtml
Quote:WHERE'S THE RAIN?
"'We like you as well as if you had been born among us; you are the only white man we can become familiar with (thoaela); but we wish you to give up that everlasting preaching and praying; we cannot become familiar with that at all.
You see we never get rain, while those tribes who never pray as we do obtain abundance.' This was a fact; and we often saw it raining on the hills ten miles off, while it would not even look at us 'even with one eye.'"
Taken from an account of Living with the Bakwain, by Scottish missionary David Livingstone.
=More proof jeebus never existed and that the African heathens' Gods are forever real. Also seen in:
Quote:Many communities mixed Muslim or Christian practices with traditional ones. The Wolof, in Senegal, might go to the Mosque to pray for rain. If that failed (as it undoubtedly would, since the monogawd is not just invisible but non-existent as well) they would ask the women to do a rain dance.One wonders why these improperly converted Senegalese (and all Africans) don't just toss christo-islam and its invisible=non-existent mono-gawd and go back to their Gods.
Anyway, just proves that African Gods are clearly real: they made it rain when propitiated by sacred established ritual. And they only abandoned any Africans when such Africans abandoned them. (Sort of what has happened to every once-heathen population when it gets brainwashed into missionary cults.)
A heathen [population] is nothing without its Gods. A heathen [population] only finds fulfillment and completion when it has grabbed all its ancestral Gods to itself. As a baby orang-utan clings to its mother and thereby becomes secure, but any that may let go and becomes lost and abandoned, dies from depravation.