Christian Subversion And Missionary Activities - 6

[Husky]

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[color="#0000FF"]india.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/12/05/u-s-evangelicals-indian-expats-teamed-up-to-push-through-modi-visa-ban/?_r=0[/color]

(Indian christocommie expats and US christos. Sort of like how anti-Hindu cryptochristo commie Meera Nanda works for the US christian evangelical "Templeton" institute - along with Rajarant who also works for it. So many ways to make fun of him.)







But this set of posts is about something else entirely.



Post 1/2



A "fun" game is to read the title and subheading of the following article and guess who is behind the "backlash". Then read on and see if you were right. (If you look at the photo of the protestors and the signs they hold, it's also obvious. And I guess the thread choice itself is a give-away.)



More interesting are the shocking "revelations" - typical, in retrospect - in the later comments.



economist.com/news/asia/21591232-move-legalise-same-sex-marriage-provokes-surprisingly-large-backlash-going-nuclear/

Gays in Taiwan

Going nuclear

A move to legalise same-sex marriage provokes a surprisingly large backlash

Dec 7th 2013 | TAIPEI | From the print edition



[caption to photo of christists in Taiwan holding placards of "made by daddy and mommy":] We like the traditional way



IN CONSERVATIVE Asia, Taiwan has given the warmest embrace to gays and lesbians. Before he became president in 2008, Ma Ying-jeou was mayor of Taipei, the capital. He boasts that he made it the most gay-friendly city in Asia, even devoting a portion of the municipal budget to homosexual causes. Taiwan routinely holds Asia’s largest gay-pride march; the latest one, in October, attracted over 60,000 people. Recently a bill allowing same-sex marriage and married gay couples to adopt children passed its first reading in the island’s legislature.



But it has put the country’s liberal tendencies to the test. A survey conducted by TVBS, a broadcaster, suggests that 40% of Taiwanese are in favour of the same-sex marriage bill and 45% against. On November 30th over 150,000 Taiwanese rallied to show their opposition. The crowds waved pink and blue placards depicting a nuclear family. They voiced concerns about the decline of traditional family structures. Children could become confused about their gender, marchers claimed. It would only reinforce the long-run decline in the fertility rate.

(The TVBS figure is wrong, as seen in the comments and a blog's extracts below. The majority is in favour, a relative minority - predominantly christian - is against.)



Supporters of gay marriage said the large turnout was thanks to conservative Christians, a small but outspoken minority. But rally organisers (read christians) said Christians formed only a part. Several lawmakers from Mr Ma’s ruling party, the Kuomintang, attended.

It is unclear whether the bill will now pass, but Victoria Hsu, head of the Taiwan Alliance to Promote Civil Partnership Rights, which pushed for it, is optimistic. The mass turnout against it will galvanise those who are for, a group that includes many students and academics.

Opponents are demanding a referendum, should the bill eventually pass. This might worry China. It claims Taiwan as its own and frowns on referendums, which smack of self-determination, even more than it frowns on gays. Mr Ma, famous for his caution, will be torn over whether to please the pros or the antis.

Comments section:

economist.com/news/asia/21591232-move-legalise-same-sex-marriage-provokes-surprisingly-large-backlash-going-nuclear/comments





First, the comedy. An alien christist threatened inanely:

happyfish18 Dec 9th 2013 9:46 GMT

Even in the non-Abrahamic East, nobody can say that they will be safe from the Beast handiwork to chip at the Confucian moral fabric in a bid to lead the people away from God's Will on Earth.

Since when does Confucianism believe in the non-existent jeebusjehovallah and its "will on earth"? Only western christists - only Amerikkkans in specific - would say that.



Then the surprise at conservative E Asia attitudes being more liberal than what the word conservative ever meant in the "progressive" christowest:

Richard Brooks Dec 8th 2013 10:27 GMT

Good on Taiwan for even proposing this legislation. Shows how wrong I am about conservative East Asian attitudes. I think a referendum would be a great idea. Win or lose, it shows courage to test the country's opinion on such topics.

I don't know why people think conservative E Asians would be conservative in a christo-sense: conservative E Asians are pro-suicide for instance. E Asia is conservative in a heathen sense by nature.



Finally, the more relevant comments - and they are important for Hindus to read I think, because they show the power christianism employs and the lengths it will go to to get the numbers to stage a protest:

Falmer Dec 9th 2013 6:22 GMT

That figure of 150 000 people in attendance is also being contested by people on the ground, as the links posted in some of the comments show. More conservative estimates are 10-20 000 people.

A different angle for this article would have been to ask why was it that the "security service" (complete with red arm band, face mask, and white hat) felt it had the right to restrain and manhandle the people it saw as against their ideas and interests (like journalists). It is leading to a flurry of legal cases around the country as we speak.



dearpeter Dec 8th 2013 8:25 GMT

In my opinion (and I live here) this march amounted to Christian groups seizing an opportunity to thrust themselves into the limelight and feel relevant to social policy for a change.

Normally, religion is a non-issue in Taiwan and the only religious groups that ever get to feel socially influential are Buddhist groups like Tsu Chi (an enormous social welfare NGO that runs hospitals and relief efforts), or fringe cults that frequently make the news for various, often perverse, reasons.

The truth is, in my opinion, most Taiwanese would be fine with a same-sex marriage law if they were well-informed on the reasoning behind it. I expect a counter-demonstration will soon emerge with a much greater turnout.



Mei-Yu Liu Dec 8th 2013 6:11 GMT

The march is lack of credibility. As far as I know, many of the participants are very young, and some of them said they attended the march to get the volunteer credits from their high schools or middle schools. Who made the participation a volunteer credit? The conservative teachers. Another motivation is homophobia. A young man who attended that march wore Nazi military uniform there. He said, "I hate gay people, so as the Nazis." His provoking behavior has already won him the attention from the Israeli ambassador. (Oh look, a christian who is a nazi. Like every other nazi was a christian. The only difference is this is a Taiwanese christian=nazi, as opposed to a christian German/Slovakian/Italian/Croatian nazi/fascist.)

(The red bit above becomes more interesting in the comment below, which will reveal that the reference to "conservative teachers" is exclusively to christian teachers/schools.)



itaal Dec 7th 2013 16:17 GMT

First, most of the polls on same-sex marriage conducted in the last couple of months in Taiwan showed that the majority of Taiwanese are actually in favour of the bill. In fact, an overwhelming 70-80% of people in their 20s and in their 30s supports same-sex marriage, including adoption rights for same-sex couples. I'm not sure why this article ignores these facts.

Second, Christians (all denominations) consist of less than 5% of the population but most have always taken the most conservative stance on these issues and have always been very outspoken. The churches and related organizations and businesses in fact spent a huge amount of money this time to mobilize lots of resources to oppose the bill. There have been reports that Christian teachers distributed petitions to their students, most of whom non-Christian and asked (forced) their students to attend the protest. As a result, even though the protest received a lot of coverage in the media, it does not reflect what the majority of people in Taiwan think on this issue.

Third, I'm not sure why the article has to mention China at the end. Even if there's ever a referendum on this issue, I doubt China will care that much about this one in particular, out of all the other national and regional elections that have been held in Taiwan in the past.



(The following foreign christoterrorist who doesn't know anything about Taiwan has to then intervene to pretend any expose of how christianism organised the homophobic rally and coerced heathen students to take part is actually a lie and a sign of christophobia

nfinityman in reply to itaal Dec 8th 2013 5:20 GMT

Your attack on Christians for following their beliefs is noteworthy in many respects. First, you make very broad statements about how they behave but offer no real facts. Second, you purport that they somehow force their students to attend the protests, again with no real supporting evidence. You sound to me like a anti-Christian bigot.



(But then the one who originally referred to "conservative teachers" and concealed the operating ideology out of the usual politeness that ultimately protects christianism and gets heathenism killed, finally spells out that it was indeed christians, christians and more christians behind it and that they were indeed coercing the students



Mei-Yu Liu in reply to nfinityman Dec 8th 2013 5:54 GMT

Indeed, there are plenty of documents and related stories you can reach online that point out the forcing/deceiving behavior done by Christian teachers to their students. Please exercise your finger and Google. The teachers distributed flyers of twisted statement, which claims the same-sex marriage bill will legalize polygamy and even zoophilia. The statement, obviously, isn't true. It was not only spread in schools, but also in offices of various businesses. Many of my friends have gotten it. (I personally haven't, since I work in the US.)

Now, the conservative church members are proclaiming themselves as the "disadvantaged majority," and urging the government to "protect their rights." Although I can't see any harm to the straight marriage rights in the bill.

The last, FYI, quoting the survey of TVBS could be a bad idea. The majority of TVBS' audience is the ruling party KMT supporters, which means, they may take the voice from a biased group sourcing. In fact, some people in Taiwan mock the broadcaster as "TVBullShit."



itaal in reply to nfinityman Dec 8th 2013 12:48 GMT

This journalist said it in better words.

fareasternpotato.blogspot.tw/2013/11/a-feast-of-hatred.html



jogazing Dec 7th 2013 15:34 GMT

The poll from TVBS actually is the most underestimated poll in Taiwan. Currently all the other poll results conducted by other social group/media/researchers have showed more than 50% of Taiwanese now support gay marriage.



jogazing in reply to jogazing Dec 7th 2013 16:12 GMT

What I was trying to say is the survey result from TVBS is absolutely an underestimate...... Even Apollo survey from China Times - one of the most China-favoring media in Taiwan - showed 56.2% of Taiwanese think gay marriage should be legalized. The report published by Academia Sinica also revealed that 52.5% of Taiwanese people think gay couple should also have the right to get married just like heterosexual couples.

Some excerpts - not the entire thing - from the following article by a Canadian journalist in Taiwan, which was linked to in one of the comments above.



fareasternpotato.blogspot.tw/2013/11/a-feast-of-hatred.html

Pink was the color theme for the event. There was a variety of placards, many reading “Made in Mommy and Daddy” or “All Kids Need Daddy and Mommy,” among others (I have one dad and three moms, and they all love me; how about that, lady?). Apparently the organizers failed to realize that pink was the very color used by the Nazis — the infamous “pink triangle” — to identify homosexuals. (According to the Holocaust Encyclopedia, the Gestapo arrested as many as 100,000 men as homosexuals between 1933 and 1945. About 50,000 men were sent to regular prison, while between 5,000 and 15,000 were interned in concentration camps.) One of the protesters even turned up wearing a complete Nazi uniform. “I don’t care if people don’t like it,” he said. “I will fight back.” To be fair to the Nazis (I can’t believe I’m saying this!), I would say that many of the haters who came out today were more a mix of Nazis and the KKK.



[...]



Not all the protesters who participated at the event were Nazis, of course, but a great many of them were Christians. Even though organizers had called upon their followers to avoid showing any sign that would identity them as members of the Church, the choice of songs left little doubt about their affiliations.



[color="#800080"][photo caption:][/color] Blocking efforts



Interestingly, in my more than seven years working as a journalist in Taiwan, this was the first time that civilians approached me and told me I was not allowed to take pictures. (That's because the "civilians" in this case were christians. Everyone else's rights come to an end when christians have power, after all. As seen in India's theocratic christist-majority Northeast.)



The site of the protest on Ketagalan Boulevard, they told us as we approached, was a “closed area.” Only after I insisted that I was a journalist, and Ketty told them she was an academic here to study social movements in Taiwan, were we allowed to enter the site. All “security” staff wore special red armbands. There were several hundreds of them, and they kept close tabs on whoever walked around, in a manner that was reminiscent of, but that surpassed in its aggressiveness, the staff of Citizen 1985 who got on my nerves when I tried to cover their protests. Sometimes they would ask people who approached whether they were “for” or “against” same-sex marriage. Those who answered that they were for were barred access. So much for dialogue...



This was also one of the rare times when civilians arrogated upon themselves rights and duties that are normally the remit of law-enforcement officers. Groups of protesters repeatedly locked arms, encircled, and blocked people who carried placards supporting gay marriage (see videos here and here and here). Not even the betel nut-chewing thugs hired by the German wind power firm InfraVest to protest their sites in Yuanli, Miaoli County, were this bad. On many occasions, they also prevented me from walking around freely and left me little choice but to collide with them. More than once I asked what right they had to prevent people from moving freely in a public space. I never received an answer.



At one point, two men locked arms around a young man who had fallen to the ground while they were pursuing him. I got on my knees next to him and snapped pictures, as several dozens of protesters with their pink placards and banners looked on. They nearly suffocated the poor thing, so closely were they holding him. I looked up and saw a group of Southeast Asian women praying out loud, their arms extended towards the young man. I went over and asked them what they were doing. “We are praying,” one of them said. This much I could tell. “Are you praying so that you will heal him?” I asked, echoing a belief, held by many religious people, that somehow homosexuality is a disease that can be healed. “Why are you asking?” one of them replied with palpable contempt. I told them I was a journalist and that I was curious as to why they were extending their arms in his direction while praying. “We’re just praying,” she said, whereupon they made it clear that his questions — his presence, in fact — were unwelcome. I had my answer: they were indeed trying to “heal” him.



[color="#800080"][photo caption of christist siegheiling and wearing pink KKK hats:][/color] Praying to 'heal' a young gay man?



For people who claim to know about love, the mobilization today was one of pure hatred and discrimination. Group dynamics were evidently at play and confirmed what I have long suspected, that a large number of those who turn to religion do so out of a need to follow, to be told how to think. Many of them are perfectly suited to meet the needs of the authoritarian Church and follow it like sheep, even if this leads them down the road of bigotry. Individually they are cowards, but as a group, they impose their beliefs on others in a way that contradicts what the Book tells them. Challenged with fact, they quickly run out of ideas and run away.



Many of the protesters were children and hired helps who obviously didn’t have a clue about the issue. Some children were doing their homework on the ground.

(Because they were children who were forcibly volunteered by their christoterrorist "teachers". As seen in the comments at The Economist further above.

Also, I am sure those "hired helps" were also coerced by christian employers who probably threatened to fire them unless they increased the ranks of the christoterrorist protestors at christianism's homophobic rally.

The hired helps and kids in Taiwan ought to consider themselves lucky: In India, the christians use force to *convert*.)

One mother firmly held up the arm of her little girl, who obviously didn’t want to be there, for half an hour so that the homosexuals and their supporters who faced them could see the pink placard she was holding. Organizers wanted a large turnout, and they got one. Still, numbers alone don’t mean much unless they are put in a context. There were far, far more people today who expressed their opposition to same-sex marriage, but in the end, they remain the minority. Taiwan, a predominantly Buddhist country, has about 500,000 Christians. Even if every single one of them opposed same-sex marriage and showed up at the protest (not all religious persons are homophobic, but most homophobes happen to be religious), they would still only constitute 1/46th of the total population of about 23 million. That a relatively much smaller number of people turned up to support gay marriage, or didn’t show up altogether, is a sign that for them, this is a non issue and none of their business. We should also add that the LGBT Pride parade held last month, which attracted approximately 65,000 people, had already advocated for the marriage rights of same-sex couples.

(Majority of Taiwan is non-christian. Majority of Taiwan is okay with gay rights.)



[...]

The natural state of E Asians is to be easy-going and leave other people's private affairs alone.

Look at the rabid psychos that christianism has created with the population. Taiwanese and every non-christian E Asian population/country have to be afraid - very afraid - for when the christists are greenlighted by Pope/Amerikkkan christocults to convert E Asian nations at full-power as is currently on in India. And even more afraid if christoism were ever to become the majority. Christianism must be terminated. The way Angola has apparently banned islam and is dismantling mosques. The world must follow suit.



The next post is a case in point/a lesson for E Asia: a christian theocratic state in India (and how exactly it became christian when it was heathen majority until a recent time).