07-15-2010, 02:59 AM
Dear Ramana,
I am working on it and I will repost this a.s.a.p. as an article here.
[quote name='Husky' date='14 July 2010 - 07:37 PM' timestamp='1279115967' post='107458']
^ Request for Ishwa
Chandra is definitely a possibility. Not faint at all.
So yes, when a Dutch person is trying to approximate a Bharatiya word with the Roman letters "Tschandra", it is quite possible that the original word was Chandra (if this were to be rendered in English).
[color="#0000FF"]ADDED:[/color]
Actually, it's even possible that back in the early 17th century, sch in Dutch - like say in Belgium - was pronounced closer to the German variant (where sh does exist in the form of sch). So if that holds, then Tsch could be pronounced Tsh and that is exactly the closest English phonetic approximation to ch.
Of course, as I said, this depends on what Dutch sounded like then.
[/quote]
Dear Husky,
You are absolutely right. It must be a clear Chandra, nothing else.
A point of attention is this: Pelsaert's pecular style is to prefix a dead -t- before sibilants, which gives names as T-sickerij for Sikri, T-sekandra for Sikandra, etc. So the prefix -t- must be ignored for the pronunciation of these particular original placenames.
The special case of Tschandra: either it stands for T-schandra with a dead -t-. Or this -t- forms a supportive cluster with -sch- to give a palatal cha-kAra.
T-schandra => a Pelsaert spelling chandra would have been enough to give a sound like shandra, see for instance Pelsaert's Cha for Shah. The preceding -s- must particularly have been used to render an original cha-kAra sound.
That a sibilant can be equaled with a palatal by Pelsaert, can be witnessed with the name Tsiouwhan for Chauhan. One can say that the -si- spelling followed by another vowel stands for a ca-kAra as in this case or a ja-kAra as in Siahan for Jahan.
This -sch- for a palatal original is used by Pelsaert as a variant rendering of his -si-. Both variants may have been enforced by the prefixed -t-
In either case, the original name of the city was Chandra or perhaps Chandrapura. The Moon (cult) must have played a particular important role in both cities on either bank of the Yamuna. We have a Mehtab Bagh opposite the Taj Mahal. Perhaps in place of an older chandra(pura) vATikA?
The Moon (cult) may also be related to that particular Rajput dynasty responsible for a part of the history of the city, especially keeping in mind that Agra was a great city even before the Afghans. In this case, a Moon cult with a Chandravamshi background, we may exclude the Kachhvahas .....
This city seems to have been changed in Sikandra by the Afghan Lodis. It is here that we have to look for the Lodi capital, safer from attacks from the west. And a perfect connection with the important trade lines with the Purab, where Afghans were also ruling.
I am working on it and I will repost this a.s.a.p. as an article here.
[quote name='Husky' date='14 July 2010 - 07:37 PM' timestamp='1279115967' post='107458']
^ Request for Ishwa
Chandra is definitely a possibility. Not faint at all.
So yes, when a Dutch person is trying to approximate a Bharatiya word with the Roman letters "Tschandra", it is quite possible that the original word was Chandra (if this were to be rendered in English).
[color="#0000FF"]ADDED:[/color]
Actually, it's even possible that back in the early 17th century, sch in Dutch - like say in Belgium - was pronounced closer to the German variant (where sh does exist in the form of sch). So if that holds, then Tsch could be pronounced Tsh and that is exactly the closest English phonetic approximation to ch.
Of course, as I said, this depends on what Dutch sounded like then.
[/quote]
Dear Husky,
You are absolutely right. It must be a clear Chandra, nothing else.
A point of attention is this: Pelsaert's pecular style is to prefix a dead -t- before sibilants, which gives names as T-sickerij for Sikri, T-sekandra for Sikandra, etc. So the prefix -t- must be ignored for the pronunciation of these particular original placenames.
The special case of Tschandra: either it stands for T-schandra with a dead -t-. Or this -t- forms a supportive cluster with -sch- to give a palatal cha-kAra.
T-schandra => a Pelsaert spelling chandra would have been enough to give a sound like shandra, see for instance Pelsaert's Cha for Shah. The preceding -s- must particularly have been used to render an original cha-kAra sound.
That a sibilant can be equaled with a palatal by Pelsaert, can be witnessed with the name Tsiouwhan for Chauhan. One can say that the -si- spelling followed by another vowel stands for a ca-kAra as in this case or a ja-kAra as in Siahan for Jahan.
This -sch- for a palatal original is used by Pelsaert as a variant rendering of his -si-. Both variants may have been enforced by the prefixed -t-
In either case, the original name of the city was Chandra or perhaps Chandrapura. The Moon (cult) must have played a particular important role in both cities on either bank of the Yamuna. We have a Mehtab Bagh opposite the Taj Mahal. Perhaps in place of an older chandra(pura) vATikA?
The Moon (cult) may also be related to that particular Rajput dynasty responsible for a part of the history of the city, especially keeping in mind that Agra was a great city even before the Afghans. In this case, a Moon cult with a Chandravamshi background, we may exclude the Kachhvahas .....
This city seems to have been changed in Sikandra by the Afghan Lodis. It is here that we have to look for the Lodi capital, safer from attacks from the west. And a perfect connection with the important trade lines with the Purab, where Afghans were also ruling.