[quote name='capt m kumar' date='07 December 2009 - 05:41 AM' timestamp='1260144181' post='102809']
<img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
' /> btw; I am told that Sari was introduced to India by some Greek woman. I am not sure whether this has been pointed out earlier or not.
Of course, it has to be pre-MahaBharata as Draupdi also used to wear sari.
[/quote]You've "been told"? And you just accepted it without question?
"Some Greek woman".
Who. When. Documentation.
I think there's mention of saree style clothing in Vedas. And I thought shaatika was the name for the sari in Samskritam and that the word sari derived from that.
Yes. Well, sort of:
http://nopr.niscair.res.in/bitstream/123...97-203.pdf
Romani wrote:
Oh what a miracle that somewhere else in the world people invented a single piece of straight and straightforward cloth that they wrapped around themselves and that was long enough to cover all of them (long enough to wrap and stay put properly). And they slung it over their shoulders! It must all imply the same single origin!
Like the Abyssinians and Ethiopians until at least the 19th century used to wear a white cloth in veshti style and slung another white cloth over their shoulders very like Brahmanas. Another miracle! It must have been borrowing.
All this is like the case of the Swastika: a very simple shape that - because of its simplicity and circumstance (some circular implication or solar motif etc) - many peoples came up with, including NA Native Americans. Doesn't make the similarly-shaped symbol in Jewish Synagogues or used among Northern Europeans and NA Native Americans into a *Swastika*, because the Swastika is Hindu.
Likewise, a single long piece of draping cloth is a very straightforward invention in pre-mass-production times (pre-sowing-machine) where the climate allowed for it. Doesn't make the Sumerian or Babylonian or Greek dress a Sari, because the Sari is Hindu. Nor does the matter indicate a single origin. (Similarly, the Abyssinian, Ethiopian male dress doesn't imply the same origin as the white Veshti+slung over cloth worn by Brahmanas.)
And why this constant assumption that Greeks and Babylonians predate Hindus? If they did anything it's always declared older amongst them.
Chinese definitely.
Persians? You mean the origin of the later "harem" pants of islamic courts in Iran? Could very well be of Persian origin, it was certainly not an Arabic innovation (full dress worn by Arabian men and women, hair and face coverage by men and women against sandstorms). Seems too sudden for Arabian full dress to turn into mid-rif bearing top + puff pants in Iranian territory. Like other pre-islamic (Persian) dress gear which the islamised retained for a while when in Iranian territory, harem-style clothing (including pants) could well be too.
Don't know about pants among Celts. The Scotsmen certainly wore skirts. During festivals, their women also wear tartan-ed dress gear to this day. No pants that I have seen. Druids are always depicted in a full dress - how accurate that is to history, I don't know. By the time Celts occupied Anatolia as Galatia, there was already contact with China for them (IIRC as per claims in a doco I watched), so hard to tell whether any pants that might have been used in SE/E-European regions at that time would have been a local innovation (I have not heard of them using pants, the opening is merely to allow the supposition).
<img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
' /> btw; I am told that Sari was introduced to India by some Greek woman. I am not sure whether this has been pointed out earlier or not.Of course, it has to be pre-MahaBharata as Draupdi also used to wear sari.
[/quote]You've "been told"? And you just accepted it without question?
"Some Greek woman".
Who. When. Documentation.
I think there's mention of saree style clothing in Vedas. And I thought shaatika was the name for the sari in Samskritam and that the word sari derived from that.
Yes. Well, sort of:
http://nopr.niscair.res.in/bitstream/123...97-203.pdf
Quote:Indian Journal of Traditional Knowledge. Vol. 7(1), January, 2008, pp.197-203.
Protection and revival of traditional hand embroidery, Kasuti by automation
Shailaja D Naik & Jyoti V Vastrad
Department of Textiles and Apparel Designing, College of Rural Home Science,
University of Agricultural Sciences, Dharwad 580005, Karnataka
Received 31 July 2007. Revised 8 October 2007.
[color="#800080"](Excerpt from p.1 of the PDF[/color]
The art of weaving is inherited right from the start of civilizations. However, it is difficult to say as to when the feminine made-up the sari came into existence, since the existence of sari is seen in some ancient sculptures of the Sumerian tradition [color="#800080"][again, they merely mean something that *looks* like the sari][/color].
Hiranyadrapi, in Rigveda is an example of the sari, a fine cloth with border as pattas. In Mahabharat, minicheri is nothing but a woven sari interwoven with pearls and gliterring borders. In Ajanta there are various specimens of saris woven with different techniques. The chief characteristic of colour in sari is to produce rhythmic contrasts, which have been displayed in the murals of Ajanta2. The word sari is believed to be derived from sat' [color="#800080"](OCR error? "sati?")[/color] or shati, a Sanskrit word which means 'a sley of cloth' or 'pattas of cloth'. From shatika word satee was formed and later it came to be known as sadi in Marathi and sadee in Oriya, Bengali, Bihari and Hindi.
[...]
Romani wrote:
Quote: saree like costume were weared by greeks and babilonians.
Oh what a miracle that somewhere else in the world people invented a single piece of straight and straightforward cloth that they wrapped around themselves and that was long enough to cover all of them (long enough to wrap and stay put properly). And they slung it over their shoulders! It must all imply the same single origin!
Like the Abyssinians and Ethiopians until at least the 19th century used to wear a white cloth in veshti style and slung another white cloth over their shoulders very like Brahmanas. Another miracle! It must have been borrowing.
All this is like the case of the Swastika: a very simple shape that - because of its simplicity and circumstance (some circular implication or solar motif etc) - many peoples came up with, including NA Native Americans. Doesn't make the similarly-shaped symbol in Jewish Synagogues or used among Northern Europeans and NA Native Americans into a *Swastika*, because the Swastika is Hindu.
Likewise, a single long piece of draping cloth is a very straightforward invention in pre-mass-production times (pre-sowing-machine) where the climate allowed for it. Doesn't make the Sumerian or Babylonian or Greek dress a Sari, because the Sari is Hindu. Nor does the matter indicate a single origin. (Similarly, the Abyssinian, Ethiopian male dress doesn't imply the same origin as the white Veshti+slung over cloth worn by Brahmanas.)
And why this constant assumption that Greeks and Babylonians predate Hindus? If they did anything it's always declared older amongst them.
Quote:The pants came from celts,persians and chinese.
Chinese definitely.
Persians? You mean the origin of the later "harem" pants of islamic courts in Iran? Could very well be of Persian origin, it was certainly not an Arabic innovation (full dress worn by Arabian men and women, hair and face coverage by men and women against sandstorms). Seems too sudden for Arabian full dress to turn into mid-rif bearing top + puff pants in Iranian territory. Like other pre-islamic (Persian) dress gear which the islamised retained for a while when in Iranian territory, harem-style clothing (including pants) could well be too.
Don't know about pants among Celts. The Scotsmen certainly wore skirts. During festivals, their women also wear tartan-ed dress gear to this day. No pants that I have seen. Druids are always depicted in a full dress - how accurate that is to history, I don't know. By the time Celts occupied Anatolia as Galatia, there was already contact with China for them (IIRC as per claims in a doco I watched), so hard to tell whether any pants that might have been used in SE/E-European regions at that time would have been a local innovation (I have not heard of them using pants, the opening is merely to allow the supposition).