<!--QuoteBegin-Bodhi+Nov 14 2008, 06:20 PM-->QUOTE(Bodhi @ Nov 14 2008, 06:20 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Husky, is beating/punishing children for sake of discipline, in itself a "wrong" or "bad" thing to do?
[right][snapback]90131[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->There's no point in asking me questions that concern ethics. I'm not ethical.
All I know is:
1) It wouldn't <i>ever</i> work on me. It would leave me only with thoughts of revenge and I will do everything opposite of what's asked of me, just to <i>spite</i> anyone who tried such tactics on me.
2) I've seen how it breeds fear in children. And causes trauma.
One kid in Indian kindergarten urinated out of fear of getting beaten up by the christoterrorist convent penguins (nuns) for something very minor and then they beat him up for <i>that</i> (poor thing suffered a seizure on account of their blows and his anxiety; that was when the nuns got scared and stopped). I should have taken the sadistic torturers' rulers and broken it over the penguins' knuckles. That's what I <i>should</i> have done, and what one part of me wanted to do back then. But my age meant I was not of any challenging size, which made me shamefully cowardly. Even now, so many years on, I have occasional nights when I am plagued by nightmares revisiting the numerous occasions when I didn't stand up for my kindergarten classmates when they were beaten up.
Always remember: children NEVER forget, even if it is only witnessing other kids getting beaten.
I'm not non-violent: I'm for taking on villains of >= one's own size. But it is <i>cowardly in the extreme</i> to beat animals or children. BTW, in my view, slapping someone (in a way that doesn't hurt, but that makes them take notice and go "oh, why did they suddenly do something so unexpected") is not beating. Beating is when it inflicts pain. But children are little, adults cannot estimate what will and will not hurt them.
It was noted how Native Americans didn't beat their kids but raised them really well. Proves there's another way. If parents have to resort to hitting children for bad behaviour, it says more about the 'parents' bad parenting skills than anything about the kids; like how the saying goes that 'there's never a bad dog, only bad owners'.
Intimidation tactics do not teach discipline (what's that?), they only impart fear: children learn nothing more than to fear the violent person, like an animal will learn nothing more than to fear a violent owner. What knowledge can be imparted through blows? What sort of positive behaviour can be instilled by it (unless fear, anger and resentment are the kind of effect one <i>wants</i> to induce)?
I don't know anything about parenting, though.
<b>ADDED:</b>
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->punishing children<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->This is a different matter. Rewarding good behaviour and punishing bad behaviour in kids is similar to teaching pets (if anyone is offended: oh come on, humans are animals). But one doesn't hit pets.
Punishment does not equate to beating. For instance, parents can withhold their attention from kids to show their displeasure, until the child apologises for pulling its sibling's hair or throwing a tantrum or whatever. Withholding attention drives children wild, because all children crave affectionate attention. So once they return remorsefully, parents can hug them to show there's no hard feelings and to reinforce positive behaviour (that is, penitence after bad conduct is rewarded with a hug).
Then on TV I've seen professional people counsel parents who are at their wits end to try the following: to dismiss kids to their room when these are in a cloudy mood until their tantrum is over. Every time they come out of their room before they calm down, parents were taught to take them back without responding to them and without letting on that their freaking out is stressing the parent(s) out. Maybe this may also work.
[right][snapback]90131[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->There's no point in asking me questions that concern ethics. I'm not ethical.
All I know is:
1) It wouldn't <i>ever</i> work on me. It would leave me only with thoughts of revenge and I will do everything opposite of what's asked of me, just to <i>spite</i> anyone who tried such tactics on me.
2) I've seen how it breeds fear in children. And causes trauma.
One kid in Indian kindergarten urinated out of fear of getting beaten up by the christoterrorist convent penguins (nuns) for something very minor and then they beat him up for <i>that</i> (poor thing suffered a seizure on account of their blows and his anxiety; that was when the nuns got scared and stopped). I should have taken the sadistic torturers' rulers and broken it over the penguins' knuckles. That's what I <i>should</i> have done, and what one part of me wanted to do back then. But my age meant I was not of any challenging size, which made me shamefully cowardly. Even now, so many years on, I have occasional nights when I am plagued by nightmares revisiting the numerous occasions when I didn't stand up for my kindergarten classmates when they were beaten up.
Always remember: children NEVER forget, even if it is only witnessing other kids getting beaten.
I'm not non-violent: I'm for taking on villains of >= one's own size. But it is <i>cowardly in the extreme</i> to beat animals or children. BTW, in my view, slapping someone (in a way that doesn't hurt, but that makes them take notice and go "oh, why did they suddenly do something so unexpected") is not beating. Beating is when it inflicts pain. But children are little, adults cannot estimate what will and will not hurt them.
It was noted how Native Americans didn't beat their kids but raised them really well. Proves there's another way. If parents have to resort to hitting children for bad behaviour, it says more about the 'parents' bad parenting skills than anything about the kids; like how the saying goes that 'there's never a bad dog, only bad owners'.
Intimidation tactics do not teach discipline (what's that?), they only impart fear: children learn nothing more than to fear the violent person, like an animal will learn nothing more than to fear a violent owner. What knowledge can be imparted through blows? What sort of positive behaviour can be instilled by it (unless fear, anger and resentment are the kind of effect one <i>wants</i> to induce)?
I don't know anything about parenting, though.
<b>ADDED:</b>
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->punishing children<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->This is a different matter. Rewarding good behaviour and punishing bad behaviour in kids is similar to teaching pets (if anyone is offended: oh come on, humans are animals). But one doesn't hit pets.
Punishment does not equate to beating. For instance, parents can withhold their attention from kids to show their displeasure, until the child apologises for pulling its sibling's hair or throwing a tantrum or whatever. Withholding attention drives children wild, because all children crave affectionate attention. So once they return remorsefully, parents can hug them to show there's no hard feelings and to reinforce positive behaviour (that is, penitence after bad conduct is rewarded with a hug).
Then on TV I've seen professional people counsel parents who are at their wits end to try the following: to dismiss kids to their room when these are in a cloudy mood until their tantrum is over. Every time they come out of their room before they calm down, parents were taught to take them back without responding to them and without letting on that their freaking out is stressing the parent(s) out. Maybe this may also work.
Death to traitors.