05-10-2008, 11:30 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-11-2008, 01:01 AM by Bharatvarsh.)
The "success" of the Indian diaspora in US being discussed above maybe true but it can give a skewed picture of the reality, although US and Canada border each other, Indians (or Hindus for that matter) in Canada have more in common with Indians in UK than with those in US in terms of socio economic status, education and other variables.
The Indians in US are highly self selected and many come from well off families in India, in Canada by contrast many Indians who come here are middle class or even lower, and do labour jobs at least in the first generation, I am not sure how Indian kids perform here in education. You even see some Indians coming here from the villages, mainly Panjabi Jatt farmers who settle in BC where there are Sikhs in rural areas or Brampton. In US by contrast many Indians are engaged in IT and well off.
Also the so called "success" comes at a price, I noticed that the outmarriage rate for Hindus is higher in US when compared with UK or Canada, and a lot of 2nd generation Hindus in US fall into the ABCD category. US is a self designated melting pot which would explain the high outmarriage rate, plus besides some NJ cities I don't know any big city in US with substantial Hindu population. By contrast most Hindus in Canada are concentrated in Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver (London and Leicester in UK). I was checking some survey, it showed that by 3rd generation 91% of US Indians can only speak English, the rates would be much lower in UK or Canada, I know 3rd generation Gujaratis who can still speak fluent Gujarati. So while some Indians may go gaga over how Indians are doing in US, there are also trade offs such as how many remain Hindu or convert etc.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In Vietnamese, the number 12 is âmöôøi haiâ (möôøi=ten; hai =two). Hence Mr. Nguyen perceives the number 12 simply as âten-twoâ. This obviates the need to translate back and forth during numerical tasks.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The same is true for South Indian languages too, at least for Telugu and Tamil so I presume others are similar.
13 = padhamoodu (padhi = 10, moodu = 3)
14 = padhnaalugu (padhi = 10, naalugu = 3)
And so on.
The above mentioned Sonjoy Dos makes some valid arguements but a lot of rubbish claiming that "lower" castes are more intelligent than "upper" castes solely based on his own prejudices or that africans are more intelligent than indians or chinese without stating the evidence for this conclusion.
His reason for malnourishment in India being the caste system is also laughable, as is the claim that Ireland is one of the wealthiest nations (certainly a developed country but plenty of other nations are ahead).
His claim that IQ tests are absolutely useless in estimating intelligence is also rubbish, of course nothing can measure your intelligence 100% correctly but they give us a good approximations of intelligence.
If he makes claims then he better have some evidence to back them up.
If Rushton is a charlatan (which he is) then this guy is an even bigger charlatan, one of those ultra leftist types who claim that we are all equaly endowed and environment is the sole cause of differences.
The current position in Psychology (which I support) is that both genes and environment play a role and neither of them are isolated from each other but interact constantly.
As for the claims of this or that caste having a better IQ, I repeat that guesswork is all fine but nothing compensates for hard data which can only be compared when all other important factors are controlled for. Until such experiments are done, I would be hesitant to make confident claims about any group IQs.
The Indians in US are highly self selected and many come from well off families in India, in Canada by contrast many Indians who come here are middle class or even lower, and do labour jobs at least in the first generation, I am not sure how Indian kids perform here in education. You even see some Indians coming here from the villages, mainly Panjabi Jatt farmers who settle in BC where there are Sikhs in rural areas or Brampton. In US by contrast many Indians are engaged in IT and well off.
Also the so called "success" comes at a price, I noticed that the outmarriage rate for Hindus is higher in US when compared with UK or Canada, and a lot of 2nd generation Hindus in US fall into the ABCD category. US is a self designated melting pot which would explain the high outmarriage rate, plus besides some NJ cities I don't know any big city in US with substantial Hindu population. By contrast most Hindus in Canada are concentrated in Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver (London and Leicester in UK). I was checking some survey, it showed that by 3rd generation 91% of US Indians can only speak English, the rates would be much lower in UK or Canada, I know 3rd generation Gujaratis who can still speak fluent Gujarati. So while some Indians may go gaga over how Indians are doing in US, there are also trade offs such as how many remain Hindu or convert etc.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In Vietnamese, the number 12 is âmöôøi haiâ (möôøi=ten; hai =two). Hence Mr. Nguyen perceives the number 12 simply as âten-twoâ. This obviates the need to translate back and forth during numerical tasks.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The same is true for South Indian languages too, at least for Telugu and Tamil so I presume others are similar.
13 = padhamoodu (padhi = 10, moodu = 3)
14 = padhnaalugu (padhi = 10, naalugu = 3)
And so on.
The above mentioned Sonjoy Dos makes some valid arguements but a lot of rubbish claiming that "lower" castes are more intelligent than "upper" castes solely based on his own prejudices or that africans are more intelligent than indians or chinese without stating the evidence for this conclusion.
His reason for malnourishment in India being the caste system is also laughable, as is the claim that Ireland is one of the wealthiest nations (certainly a developed country but plenty of other nations are ahead).
His claim that IQ tests are absolutely useless in estimating intelligence is also rubbish, of course nothing can measure your intelligence 100% correctly but they give us a good approximations of intelligence.
If he makes claims then he better have some evidence to back them up.
If Rushton is a charlatan (which he is) then this guy is an even bigger charlatan, one of those ultra leftist types who claim that we are all equaly endowed and environment is the sole cause of differences.
The current position in Psychology (which I support) is that both genes and environment play a role and neither of them are isolated from each other but interact constantly.
As for the claims of this or that caste having a better IQ, I repeat that guesswork is all fine but nothing compensates for hard data which can only be compared when all other important factors are controlled for. Until such experiments are done, I would be hesitant to make confident claims about any group IQs.