<!--QuoteBegin-dhu+Nov 1 2007, 08:00 AM-->QUOTE(dhu @ Nov 1 2007, 08:00 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->It's all because of the christian meme that they've not been able to shake, <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I knew you would bring this up, huskybhai. Meme model was lifted from the discrete units of genetics. This model is regularly applied to the religion domain but it does not capture the intent behind the propagation of these ideologies. Meme model was invented to obfuscate responsibilty and traceability of the actors behind these ideologies. We are replicating model of 'original sin' when we speak of this meme floating throughout history.[right][snapback]74722[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->So this was the thread - I was looking in the "christianism" threads instead.
Dhu, I know that the concept of memes was not invented for non-genetics purposes. But I've found that memes are the only explanation for why former-christians are such sane and humane people while - going by their self-description of their former selves (before their 'de'-conversion) - they used to be totally the opposite. The same goes for islam. When they leave the Religion of Peace, they no longer think taking out as many of the kaffirs as possible - even if it comes down to shaheeding themselves - is a sensible let alone compassionate pastime.
Nothing of good has been accomplished by either religion. Sane people who adopt it either go mad immediately or (if they are still under the benign influence of their old religion/atheism) their next generations go violent 'zealous'. It's the people that leave christianism/islamism/communism that have returned to humanity.
I agree with your statement about "actors behind these ideologies" who were definitely there as you have shown with Atwill's material on Titus. But the virus that was unleashed has mutated beyond all laboratory confines now and is capable of driving itself quite well with ridiculous ideas like "you've sinned, you need a fix, meet jeebus and tell your friends/make them join".
Some people manage to snap out of it and when they do, they're as good as old. Doesn't that support a "memetic disease" view of christoislamicommunism? I find it does. The same goes for ex-communistos (Sita Ram Goel and others in India, for example), who return to being so normal and likeable after leaving the rabid komrade klub (while going by their own descriptions of how they used to be and how they fretted over struggling for world revolution, it sounds pretty much like a christian on "fire for jesus" and eager to set the world aflame too or a muslim jihadding for dar-ul-islam).
<!--QuoteBegin-Honsol+Nov 23 2007, 08:10 PM-->QUOTE(Honsol @ Nov 23 2007, 08:10 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Finno-ugric language family is diferent from turko-mongol language family.[right][snapback]75537[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->You're right of course. I confused myself as usual. "Finno-Ugric" sounded like the two groups I was looking for, when in reality it was supposed to be FU's superfamily Uralic-Altaic or something. Its believers think that Uralic-Altaic consists of FU and Japanese and Turkic and who knows what else.
http://ancienthistory.about.com/cs/languag.../finnougric.htm
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Some <b>believe</b> the Finno-Ugric languages share a common ancestry with Turkish and Japanese. The umbrella language group is called Ural-Altaic. Three branches of the Altaic group are Turkic, Mongolian, and Manchu-Tungus. The Ural group is formed of two language groups: Finno-Ugric and Samoyed.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->I'm glad they wrote the word "believe". All they need to do now is have the honesty to apply that as fearlessly to other similar belief systems...
More on FU and the "Uralic-Altaic" theory/belief: http://www.helsinki.fi/~jolaakso/fufaq.html
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->There are cases when russian missionaries throw idols to the ground(to show their powerless),which make native siberians become angry at missionaries.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->They should take video/pictures of it on the mobile phone and put it up in Utoob as examples of "christianity loving its neighbours".
I knew you would bring this up, huskybhai. Meme model was lifted from the discrete units of genetics. This model is regularly applied to the religion domain but it does not capture the intent behind the propagation of these ideologies. Meme model was invented to obfuscate responsibilty and traceability of the actors behind these ideologies. We are replicating model of 'original sin' when we speak of this meme floating throughout history.[right][snapback]74722[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->So this was the thread - I was looking in the "christianism" threads instead.
Dhu, I know that the concept of memes was not invented for non-genetics purposes. But I've found that memes are the only explanation for why former-christians are such sane and humane people while - going by their self-description of their former selves (before their 'de'-conversion) - they used to be totally the opposite. The same goes for islam. When they leave the Religion of Peace, they no longer think taking out as many of the kaffirs as possible - even if it comes down to shaheeding themselves - is a sensible let alone compassionate pastime.
Nothing of good has been accomplished by either religion. Sane people who adopt it either go mad immediately or (if they are still under the benign influence of their old religion/atheism) their next generations go violent 'zealous'. It's the people that leave christianism/islamism/communism that have returned to humanity.
I agree with your statement about "actors behind these ideologies" who were definitely there as you have shown with Atwill's material on Titus. But the virus that was unleashed has mutated beyond all laboratory confines now and is capable of driving itself quite well with ridiculous ideas like "you've sinned, you need a fix, meet jeebus and tell your friends/make them join".
Some people manage to snap out of it and when they do, they're as good as old. Doesn't that support a "memetic disease" view of christoislamicommunism? I find it does. The same goes for ex-communistos (Sita Ram Goel and others in India, for example), who return to being so normal and likeable after leaving the rabid komrade klub (while going by their own descriptions of how they used to be and how they fretted over struggling for world revolution, it sounds pretty much like a christian on "fire for jesus" and eager to set the world aflame too or a muslim jihadding for dar-ul-islam).
<!--QuoteBegin-Honsol+Nov 23 2007, 08:10 PM-->QUOTE(Honsol @ Nov 23 2007, 08:10 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Finno-ugric language family is diferent from turko-mongol language family.[right][snapback]75537[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->You're right of course. I confused myself as usual. "Finno-Ugric" sounded like the two groups I was looking for, when in reality it was supposed to be FU's superfamily Uralic-Altaic or something. Its believers think that Uralic-Altaic consists of FU and Japanese and Turkic and who knows what else.
http://ancienthistory.about.com/cs/languag.../finnougric.htm
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Some <b>believe</b> the Finno-Ugric languages share a common ancestry with Turkish and Japanese. The umbrella language group is called Ural-Altaic. Three branches of the Altaic group are Turkic, Mongolian, and Manchu-Tungus. The Ural group is formed of two language groups: Finno-Ugric and Samoyed.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->I'm glad they wrote the word "believe". All they need to do now is have the honesty to apply that as fearlessly to other similar belief systems...
More on FU and the "Uralic-Altaic" theory/belief: http://www.helsinki.fi/~jolaakso/fufaq.html
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->There are cases when russian missionaries throw idols to the ground(to show their powerless),which make native siberians become angry at missionaries.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->They should take video/pictures of it on the mobile phone and put it up in Utoob as examples of "christianity loving its neighbours".