03-24-2007, 05:10 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-ramana+Mar 23 2007, 08:38 AM-->QUOTE(ramana @ Mar 23 2007, 08:38 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->kaly boss, We need a clear logical demolition of this AIT & PIE nonsense that ordinary aam janata can understand. The reason is the poison pen of Romila types has spread far and wide and to own the space Indians have to be able to state clearly and unequivocally that AIT and all that is hogwash.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with you, Ramana ji. We have to remove the cobwebs which have accumulated in Bharatiya scholarship -- for over 200 years now --, admiring the fraud called William Jones. This accumulation is best exemplified by the adoration of IEL by the likes of Koenraad Elst. A non-falsifiable discipline CANNOT be demolished using the fraudulent rules of that very discipline. We have to re-discover bhaashya just as we rediscovered Sarasvati. There is no other civilizational area in the world which has such a rich tradition of bhaashya. The Mahes'vara sutraani are a pinnacle of achievement in the evolution of knowledge systems.
I will go through the Sarasvati thread and respond.
I would like to flag another dimension to the IEL belief system which is nowadays, sought to be buttressed by bogus DNA studies. What used to be called 'racism' is now-a-days called either 'ethnicity studies' or 'evolutionary biology'.
Here is a report on Nazi science. k
Nazi science in Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
Copy of my letter to: bmbf@bmbf.bund.de is given below for reference (annexes not included).
See also:
http://www.sabha.info/research/aif.html
http://www.math.uni-hamburg.de/home/bandel...erabad_2006.ppt The show ain't amusing, it is shocking.
Namaskaram.
k
22 March 2007
For the attention of Federal Minister of Education and Research Annette Schavan
Federal Ministry of Education and Research
HeinemannstraÃe 2
53175 Bonn
Phone: +49 22899 57-0
Fax: +49 22899 57-83601
Dear Hon'ble Bundesministerin Dr. Annette Schavan
Re: "Allegations of Nazi science"
This is to bring to your notice some issues for investigation and remedial action.
Both Profs. Stoneking and Jean-Jacques Hublin of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Germany seek to prove Aryan Invasion Theory using Aryan Invasion Theory (a strange case of circular reasoning, this is non-falsifiable, and hence, NOT scientific research) . Prof. Hublin is supporting Prof. Stoneking who is propagating a White Supremacist theory and hence, what Prof. Stoneking himself calls, in his letter titled: 'Allegations of Nazi science'. This amounts to bible-thumping on the part of some reseaches citing the authority of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology, because Aryan Invasion Theory was born and based on Biblical Creationism and Tower of Babel.
The researches of Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology assume the truth of Aryan Invasion Theory (including migrations into India). Romila Thapar's paper cited as reference 17 in Prof. Stoneking's paper assumes the truth of Aryan Invasion Theory and is crucial to conclude that Aryan Invasion Theory is true. This level of intellectual sophistry, circular causation, is unbelievable.
I am appending in Annex 2 some fallacies in the researches of the Institute as brought out by HJ Bandelt and T. Kivisild (2006).
Prof. Stoneking notes in the summary of his research monograph: "⦠We conlude that paternal lineage of Indian caste groups are primarily descended from Indo_european speakers who migrated from Central Asia ~3500 years ago." An extraordinary claim for a seemingly scientific paper to make !
In the text of the paper, the origin of R2 (M124), and L (M20) was estimated out of India (Central Asia) while it is proved now by current studies that R2 and L are Indian origin (Sahoo et al. 2006, Sengupta et al. 2006, Chaubey et al. 2007). Prof. Stoneking adds: " The central Asian Y chromosomes spread over the Indian subcontinent recently and in a rather short period of time, as suggested by the relative homogeneity and close relationship of all caste populations. A possible explanation for these patterns is that Indian caste paternal lineages are largely descended from the linguistically and archaeologically inferred dispersal of Indo-European-speaking pastoralists who mi grated from central Asia some 3500 years ago [2â4, 7â9]. "
Annex 2 exposes Prof. Stoneking's defense of his completely wrong data. It is surprising that wrong data should be used and such data should be misinterpreted just to prove the views of Romila Thapar about Aryan Invasion Theory which is an euphemism for Nazi Aryan supremacy Theory.
On January 26, 2007 I sent this mail to Max Planck Institute. The subject of the mail was: Prof. proves Aryan Invasion Theory using the Aryan Invasion Theory
http://www.sabha.info/archives/sabha_25jan2007.html#2
[quote] Thanks to SABHA for being the first to report this fantastic discovery to the gullible public.
Professor proves Aryan Invasion Theory using Aryan Invasion Theory!
Mark Stoneking of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Germany has proven the Aryan Invasion Theory using the Aryan Invasion Theory!
According to his paper titled 'Independent Origins of Indian Caste and Tribal Paternal Lineages,' the caste system in India is no more than 3500 years old because Romila Thapar says so. http://www.eva.mpg.de/genetics/pdf/Corda...ol2004.pdf
Moreover, the caste system was elaborated only within the last 3500 years [2,17], which constitutes a rather short period of time for observing such dramatic differences in Y chromosome variation between caste and tribal people at a pooled-data level.
. . .
It therefore appears that Indian caste and tribal paternal lineages derive from independent sources.
Reference number 17 - on which the Professor bases his claim - is a paper written by people who base their ideas on the assumption that the Aryan Invasion Theory is true.
Gadgil, M., and Thapar, R. (1990). Human ecology in India: some historical perspectives. Interdiscipl. Sci. Rev. 15, 209â223
Thus, in a display of academic brilliance, Stoneking uses Romila Thapar's claim that Aryans invaded India and introduced the caste system, and goes on to prove that Aryans invaded India and introduced the caste system!
You can contact Mark Stoneking at stoneking AT eva.mpg. if you wish to congratulate him for his brilliant piece of work which proves a Nazi theory and furthers the field of Circular Logic. Don't forget to copy your emails to SABHA and the members of the management of Max Planck Institute, whose email ids can be found here: http://www.eva.mpg.de/english/profil.htm
feedback@sabha.info [unquote]
I am also providing in Annex 1 subsequent correspondence with Prof. Stoneking and Prof. Jean-Jacques Hublin. (Letter of March 12, 2007 from Prof. Stoneking; letter of 5 March 2007 from Prof. Stoneking, my response of 13 March 2007; letter of 14 March 2007 from Prof. Stoneking; my response of 15 March 2007; further letter of 16 March 2007 from Prof. Stoneking; and letter of 18 March 2007 from Jean-Jacques Hublin, Director, Department of Human Evolution, Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Thanking you for your consideration and with the best regards,
I agree with you, Ramana ji. We have to remove the cobwebs which have accumulated in Bharatiya scholarship -- for over 200 years now --, admiring the fraud called William Jones. This accumulation is best exemplified by the adoration of IEL by the likes of Koenraad Elst. A non-falsifiable discipline CANNOT be demolished using the fraudulent rules of that very discipline. We have to re-discover bhaashya just as we rediscovered Sarasvati. There is no other civilizational area in the world which has such a rich tradition of bhaashya. The Mahes'vara sutraani are a pinnacle of achievement in the evolution of knowledge systems.
I will go through the Sarasvati thread and respond.
I would like to flag another dimension to the IEL belief system which is nowadays, sought to be buttressed by bogus DNA studies. What used to be called 'racism' is now-a-days called either 'ethnicity studies' or 'evolutionary biology'.
Here is a report on Nazi science. k
Nazi science in Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
Copy of my letter to: bmbf@bmbf.bund.de is given below for reference (annexes not included).
See also:
http://www.sabha.info/research/aif.html
http://www.math.uni-hamburg.de/home/bandel...erabad_2006.ppt The show ain't amusing, it is shocking.
Namaskaram.
k
22 March 2007
For the attention of Federal Minister of Education and Research Annette Schavan
Federal Ministry of Education and Research
HeinemannstraÃe 2
53175 Bonn
Phone: +49 22899 57-0
Fax: +49 22899 57-83601
Dear Hon'ble Bundesministerin Dr. Annette Schavan
Re: "Allegations of Nazi science"
This is to bring to your notice some issues for investigation and remedial action.
Both Profs. Stoneking and Jean-Jacques Hublin of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Germany seek to prove Aryan Invasion Theory using Aryan Invasion Theory (a strange case of circular reasoning, this is non-falsifiable, and hence, NOT scientific research) . Prof. Hublin is supporting Prof. Stoneking who is propagating a White Supremacist theory and hence, what Prof. Stoneking himself calls, in his letter titled: 'Allegations of Nazi science'. This amounts to bible-thumping on the part of some reseaches citing the authority of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology, because Aryan Invasion Theory was born and based on Biblical Creationism and Tower of Babel.
The researches of Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology assume the truth of Aryan Invasion Theory (including migrations into India). Romila Thapar's paper cited as reference 17 in Prof. Stoneking's paper assumes the truth of Aryan Invasion Theory and is crucial to conclude that Aryan Invasion Theory is true. This level of intellectual sophistry, circular causation, is unbelievable.
I am appending in Annex 2 some fallacies in the researches of the Institute as brought out by HJ Bandelt and T. Kivisild (2006).
Prof. Stoneking notes in the summary of his research monograph: "⦠We conlude that paternal lineage of Indian caste groups are primarily descended from Indo_european speakers who migrated from Central Asia ~3500 years ago." An extraordinary claim for a seemingly scientific paper to make !
In the text of the paper, the origin of R2 (M124), and L (M20) was estimated out of India (Central Asia) while it is proved now by current studies that R2 and L are Indian origin (Sahoo et al. 2006, Sengupta et al. 2006, Chaubey et al. 2007). Prof. Stoneking adds: " The central Asian Y chromosomes spread over the Indian subcontinent recently and in a rather short period of time, as suggested by the relative homogeneity and close relationship of all caste populations. A possible explanation for these patterns is that Indian caste paternal lineages are largely descended from the linguistically and archaeologically inferred dispersal of Indo-European-speaking pastoralists who mi grated from central Asia some 3500 years ago [2â4, 7â9]. "
Annex 2 exposes Prof. Stoneking's defense of his completely wrong data. It is surprising that wrong data should be used and such data should be misinterpreted just to prove the views of Romila Thapar about Aryan Invasion Theory which is an euphemism for Nazi Aryan supremacy Theory.
On January 26, 2007 I sent this mail to Max Planck Institute. The subject of the mail was: Prof. proves Aryan Invasion Theory using the Aryan Invasion Theory
http://www.sabha.info/archives/sabha_25jan2007.html#2
[quote] Thanks to SABHA for being the first to report this fantastic discovery to the gullible public.
Professor proves Aryan Invasion Theory using Aryan Invasion Theory!
Mark Stoneking of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Germany has proven the Aryan Invasion Theory using the Aryan Invasion Theory!
According to his paper titled 'Independent Origins of Indian Caste and Tribal Paternal Lineages,' the caste system in India is no more than 3500 years old because Romila Thapar says so. http://www.eva.mpg.de/genetics/pdf/Corda...ol2004.pdf
Moreover, the caste system was elaborated only within the last 3500 years [2,17], which constitutes a rather short period of time for observing such dramatic differences in Y chromosome variation between caste and tribal people at a pooled-data level.
. . .
It therefore appears that Indian caste and tribal paternal lineages derive from independent sources.
Reference number 17 - on which the Professor bases his claim - is a paper written by people who base their ideas on the assumption that the Aryan Invasion Theory is true.
Gadgil, M., and Thapar, R. (1990). Human ecology in India: some historical perspectives. Interdiscipl. Sci. Rev. 15, 209â223
Thus, in a display of academic brilliance, Stoneking uses Romila Thapar's claim that Aryans invaded India and introduced the caste system, and goes on to prove that Aryans invaded India and introduced the caste system!
You can contact Mark Stoneking at stoneking AT eva.mpg. if you wish to congratulate him for his brilliant piece of work which proves a Nazi theory and furthers the field of Circular Logic. Don't forget to copy your emails to SABHA and the members of the management of Max Planck Institute, whose email ids can be found here: http://www.eva.mpg.de/english/profil.htm
feedback@sabha.info [unquote]
I am also providing in Annex 1 subsequent correspondence with Prof. Stoneking and Prof. Jean-Jacques Hublin. (Letter of March 12, 2007 from Prof. Stoneking; letter of 5 March 2007 from Prof. Stoneking, my response of 13 March 2007; letter of 14 March 2007 from Prof. Stoneking; my response of 15 March 2007; further letter of 16 March 2007 from Prof. Stoneking; and letter of 18 March 2007 from Jean-Jacques Hublin, Director, Department of Human Evolution, Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology.
Thanking you for your consideration and with the best regards,