12-08-2006, 09:22 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Bharatvarsh+Dec 8 2006, 07:26 AM-->QUOTE(Bharatvarsh @ Dec 8 2006, 07:26 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->(Though it is a different matter that once you leave Hinduism you cannot be called a rajput. But I guess blood does have something to do with bravery).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not really, until Shivaji many Marathas were serving under Muslims and did not have any fame like they do now, the Tamils were declared non martial by the British but I am sure you must have heard of the LTTE (still the most organised terrorist/guerilla group in the world).
Bengalis were also declared non martial but most of the people who shot dead British officials came from that province not the so called martial classes like Rajputs or Gurkhas.
[right][snapback]61815[/snapback][/right]
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There are braves, accomplished, intelligent, wise men in all communities across the world. There are also weak, coward, narrow minded people in all communities. Sometimes some communities because of their socio-economic conditions are predisposed towards certain professions or way of life, which builds some particular characteristics. But if tapped properly you can find all sorts of abilities in all sorts of communities.
Also people can be brave and courageous without weilding the sword. You are courageous if you stand up for your rights and principles, then it doesn't even matter whether you even have a hand to weild a sword. It was masses of unarmed men and women, old and children with no weapon in hand, only motivated by an idea, that resisted British imperialism in India and unnerved that regime. It can be a long debate, whether satyagraha helped us win freedom or not, but it cannot be disputed that it was a potent force and it was a major factor. And it had all sorts of communities across the length and breadth of India.
While it is nice to get more knowledge about the brave Rajput warriors, to give an entire community an exalted status and a common branding of bravery is too much to accept. Till the 1857 revolt, most of British army which vanquished various Indian states did not have some of the "martial" races like Turks, Afghans, Rajputs, Sikhs etc. You talk of British misrespresenting our history and you yourself are falling victim to one of their propogandas and pet theory viz. "martial races". This was precisely to incorporate more Sikhs and Rajputs in the Indian army. In fact the Sikhs were overproportionately represented in the Indian army during British regime.
And about blood, Indians are very mixed in their DNA and ancestry. And especially a group like Rajput will have various strands. I don't know if any DNA study has been done on the same, maybe that would be an interesting input.
Also to end off, want to tell you about what is known and told about the Shahis of Udbhandpura or Hindu Shahiyas as they are called. They battled the fierce Turco-Afghans invaders from the north west from Sabuktigin to his son Mahmud and their entire line perished fighting. Jaipala gave up his life on a funeral pyre because he could not accept defeat. Anandapala determinedly fought Mahmud, tried to create a grand alliance with other Indian potentates, mainly the Rajput followers, but in the battle they left him alone. After his death, his sons and their sons continued fighting until the entire line got extinguished. Your greatest measure of praise is the one where an admiring enemy appreciates your mettle. Chand Bardais can always sing Prithviraj Rasos, but I consider Al-Biruni statement about the Shahis, the best proof of bravery.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahi
"Emperor Jayapala was challenged by the armies of Sultan Sabuktigin and later by his son Sultan Mahmud. According to the Minháj ad-Dīn in his chronicle Tabaqát-i Násiri (Raverty's trans., Vol.1, p.82), he bears a testament to the political and powerful stature of Maharaja Jayapala Shah, "<b>Jayapála, who is the greatest of all the ráis (kings) of Hind..."</b> Misra wrote on Jaypala: <b>"(He) was perhaps the last Indian ruler to show such spirit of aggression, so sadly lacking in later Rajput kings."</b> (Indian Resistance to Early Muslim Invaders Up to 1206 AD, R.G Misra, Anu Books, repr.1992)
Alberuni, in spite of the fact that he lived under Mahmud, praises the Shahis:
<b>"The Hindu Shahiya dynasty is extinct and of the whole house there is not the slightest remnant in existence. We must say that in all their grandeur, they never slackened in the ardent desire of doing that which is good and right, that they were men of noble sentiment and noble bearing."</b>
Kalhana writes about the sad fate of the Shahis:
<b>"Where is the Shahi dynasty with its ministers, its kings, and its great grandeur? ... The very name of the splendor of Shahi kings has vanished. What is not seen in dream, what even our imagination cannot conceive, that dynasty accomplished with ease"</b>
The <b>Janjua Rajputs </b>of Punjab are the descendants of the House of Jayapala (Chronicles of Early Janjuas, 2003, iUniverse, Dr H Khan, p2-10) (Coins of Medieval India, A.Cunningham, London, 1894, p56, p62) (''The Last Two Dynasties of The Sahis, A Rehman, 1988, Delhi, p131,p48, p49)(Gazeteer of the Jhelum District, Lahore, 1904, p93)"
As you can see some descendants of the Hindu Shahiyas who were Brahmins of the Mohyal caste call themselves Janjua Rajputs. Hence lets stop having this notion of Rajput blood or Afghan blood or Brahmin blood being superior.
Not really, until Shivaji many Marathas were serving under Muslims and did not have any fame like they do now, the Tamils were declared non martial by the British but I am sure you must have heard of the LTTE (still the most organised terrorist/guerilla group in the world).
Bengalis were also declared non martial but most of the people who shot dead British officials came from that province not the so called martial classes like Rajputs or Gurkhas.
[right][snapback]61815[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There are braves, accomplished, intelligent, wise men in all communities across the world. There are also weak, coward, narrow minded people in all communities. Sometimes some communities because of their socio-economic conditions are predisposed towards certain professions or way of life, which builds some particular characteristics. But if tapped properly you can find all sorts of abilities in all sorts of communities.
Also people can be brave and courageous without weilding the sword. You are courageous if you stand up for your rights and principles, then it doesn't even matter whether you even have a hand to weild a sword. It was masses of unarmed men and women, old and children with no weapon in hand, only motivated by an idea, that resisted British imperialism in India and unnerved that regime. It can be a long debate, whether satyagraha helped us win freedom or not, but it cannot be disputed that it was a potent force and it was a major factor. And it had all sorts of communities across the length and breadth of India.
While it is nice to get more knowledge about the brave Rajput warriors, to give an entire community an exalted status and a common branding of bravery is too much to accept. Till the 1857 revolt, most of British army which vanquished various Indian states did not have some of the "martial" races like Turks, Afghans, Rajputs, Sikhs etc. You talk of British misrespresenting our history and you yourself are falling victim to one of their propogandas and pet theory viz. "martial races". This was precisely to incorporate more Sikhs and Rajputs in the Indian army. In fact the Sikhs were overproportionately represented in the Indian army during British regime.
And about blood, Indians are very mixed in their DNA and ancestry. And especially a group like Rajput will have various strands. I don't know if any DNA study has been done on the same, maybe that would be an interesting input.
Also to end off, want to tell you about what is known and told about the Shahis of Udbhandpura or Hindu Shahiyas as they are called. They battled the fierce Turco-Afghans invaders from the north west from Sabuktigin to his son Mahmud and their entire line perished fighting. Jaipala gave up his life on a funeral pyre because he could not accept defeat. Anandapala determinedly fought Mahmud, tried to create a grand alliance with other Indian potentates, mainly the Rajput followers, but in the battle they left him alone. After his death, his sons and their sons continued fighting until the entire line got extinguished. Your greatest measure of praise is the one where an admiring enemy appreciates your mettle. Chand Bardais can always sing Prithviraj Rasos, but I consider Al-Biruni statement about the Shahis, the best proof of bravery.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahi
"Emperor Jayapala was challenged by the armies of Sultan Sabuktigin and later by his son Sultan Mahmud. According to the Minháj ad-Dīn in his chronicle Tabaqát-i Násiri (Raverty's trans., Vol.1, p.82), he bears a testament to the political and powerful stature of Maharaja Jayapala Shah, "<b>Jayapála, who is the greatest of all the ráis (kings) of Hind..."</b> Misra wrote on Jaypala: <b>"(He) was perhaps the last Indian ruler to show such spirit of aggression, so sadly lacking in later Rajput kings."</b> (Indian Resistance to Early Muslim Invaders Up to 1206 AD, R.G Misra, Anu Books, repr.1992)
Alberuni, in spite of the fact that he lived under Mahmud, praises the Shahis:
<b>"The Hindu Shahiya dynasty is extinct and of the whole house there is not the slightest remnant in existence. We must say that in all their grandeur, they never slackened in the ardent desire of doing that which is good and right, that they were men of noble sentiment and noble bearing."</b>
Kalhana writes about the sad fate of the Shahis:
<b>"Where is the Shahi dynasty with its ministers, its kings, and its great grandeur? ... The very name of the splendor of Shahi kings has vanished. What is not seen in dream, what even our imagination cannot conceive, that dynasty accomplished with ease"</b>
The <b>Janjua Rajputs </b>of Punjab are the descendants of the House of Jayapala (Chronicles of Early Janjuas, 2003, iUniverse, Dr H Khan, p2-10) (Coins of Medieval India, A.Cunningham, London, 1894, p56, p62) (''The Last Two Dynasties of The Sahis, A Rehman, 1988, Delhi, p131,p48, p49)(Gazeteer of the Jhelum District, Lahore, 1904, p93)"
As you can see some descendants of the Hindu Shahiyas who were Brahmins of the Mohyal caste call themselves Janjua Rajputs. Hence lets stop having this notion of Rajput blood or Afghan blood or Brahmin blood being superior.