11-25-2006, 09:14 PM
Suresh:
So that we have a proper basis to discuss..
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Only a socialist system of governance can be a suitable alternative. But it's NOT the socialism that you imagine it to be, that of Mao's or Lenin's. Nor, is it the Indian version of socialism, namely minority appeasement.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What exactly is 'socialism' that you define of. From what I know USSR was a "Soviet <b>Socialist</b> Republics". Per the book defination of socialism it's "<i>property and the distribution of wealth are subject to social control</i>". It's not clear that what '<i>social control</i>'; nor are there defined parameters to put such controls into practise; nor have we seen metrics to measure them or their success.
An example of socialist system would be government planners could dictate as to how much one produced or not and savvy socialists proponents like economist Oskar Lange contended that watching lines at retail stores was an indicator of what inventory levels should be. (Kinda like capitalist version of the legendary investor Peter Lynch stating that you ought to drive around the malls or K-Mart/Wal-Mart parking lot before buying it's stock).
Friedrich Hayek in his famous article The Use of Knowledge in Society debunked socialist economic models stating that central planners cannot replicate all decisions and calculations that private firms make in market system.
Who defines the PROPER in <!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"PROPER wealth generation, distribution and consumption, which involves the common ownership of the means of production"?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do you have any working examples?
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> Everything that comes from COOMOP will be treated as profits and shared amongst all workers.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In such a scenario, what incentive do you have to work as hard as you do when you could just be a lazy bumb like me since I'll be making as much as you do.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Again, you never ask these questions to a capitalist, who also has failed to deliver your utopia<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Any listed companies promising utopia rather than shareholder value that you can name of? I'll short their stock once the market opens Monday morning.
and
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->That's why I feel it imperative for Hindus and Socialists to get together and fight imperialist designs.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who exactly are these imperialist? And spell out their designs? America?
"<i>The Americans couldn't destory Hanoi but we have destoryed our city by very low rents</i>" - Vietnam's foreign minister Nguyen Co Thact in '89.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->At the moment, our socialism should be turned toward improving workers' conditions, govt. control of large-scale industries so the wealth generated could be used for welfare schemes and social security, and so on.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Itâs called taxes â is this term foreign to socialists? Only creation of wealth can provide for schemes to defend or provide for those who need to be provided for.
Mudy: No attacks on democrats please - Taliban/Sudan different thread. And vishwas - no attack on daily dose of dailykos please <!--emo&
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
So that we have a proper basis to discuss..
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Only a socialist system of governance can be a suitable alternative. But it's NOT the socialism that you imagine it to be, that of Mao's or Lenin's. Nor, is it the Indian version of socialism, namely minority appeasement.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What exactly is 'socialism' that you define of. From what I know USSR was a "Soviet <b>Socialist</b> Republics". Per the book defination of socialism it's "<i>property and the distribution of wealth are subject to social control</i>". It's not clear that what '<i>social control</i>'; nor are there defined parameters to put such controls into practise; nor have we seen metrics to measure them or their success.
An example of socialist system would be government planners could dictate as to how much one produced or not and savvy socialists proponents like economist Oskar Lange contended that watching lines at retail stores was an indicator of what inventory levels should be. (Kinda like capitalist version of the legendary investor Peter Lynch stating that you ought to drive around the malls or K-Mart/Wal-Mart parking lot before buying it's stock).
Friedrich Hayek in his famous article The Use of Knowledge in Society debunked socialist economic models stating that central planners cannot replicate all decisions and calculations that private firms make in market system.
Who defines the PROPER in <!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"PROPER wealth generation, distribution and consumption, which involves the common ownership of the means of production"?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do you have any working examples?
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> Everything that comes from COOMOP will be treated as profits and shared amongst all workers.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In such a scenario, what incentive do you have to work as hard as you do when you could just be a lazy bumb like me since I'll be making as much as you do.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Again, you never ask these questions to a capitalist, who also has failed to deliver your utopia<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Any listed companies promising utopia rather than shareholder value that you can name of? I'll short their stock once the market opens Monday morning.
and
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->That's why I feel it imperative for Hindus and Socialists to get together and fight imperialist designs.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who exactly are these imperialist? And spell out their designs? America?
"<i>The Americans couldn't destory Hanoi but we have destoryed our city by very low rents</i>" - Vietnam's foreign minister Nguyen Co Thact in '89.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->At the moment, our socialism should be turned toward improving workers' conditions, govt. control of large-scale industries so the wealth generated could be used for welfare schemes and social security, and so on.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Itâs called taxes â is this term foreign to socialists? Only creation of wealth can provide for schemes to defend or provide for those who need to be provided for.
Mudy: No attacks on democrats please - Taliban/Sudan different thread. And vishwas - no attack on daily dose of dailykos please <!--emo&
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->