08-27-2006, 11:13 AM
Nandi,Ravi and other fellow Jats,
The assertion that Jat is the MOST ancient race is false.
The assertion that all rajputs are descendants of Jats is also a lie.
Rajput is literally "Raja Putra" i.e son of the king.
I will ask you a few questions:
a) Why is that rajputs and Jats are socially so different? If they were same people
they should be socially same. Rajput women do not go and work in the fields
while Jat women do. (Do not give me one off examples. We are taking about
what generally happens in Jat and rajput villages).
b) Why is that rajputs and Jats do not intermarry?
c) Why is it that the ancient Hara and Khichi clan of chauhan rajputs absent in Jats?
(Hooda is not acceptable as Hara because if rajputs can retain Hara/Khichi so
should have Jats if they were same). Hara rajputs ruled Boondi and Kotah.
Prithviraj Chauhan belonged to the Khichi Shakha of Chauhans.
http://www.uq.net.au/~zzhsoszy/ips/misc/chauhan.html
The mistake that you guys are making just as gujjars are making today is that people
with same last names are considered the same. I will give you an example: Rajputs
have Deora Chauhans. Gujjars have Devda Gujjars. The progenitor of each Deora /
Devda clan was a different person who lived in a different geographical location.
Yet today Devda Gujjar might say we are same as Deora Chauhan which of course
is false as is historically recorded.
Jats were pastoralists whose help was taken by rajput kings to make there
kingdoms richer by giving them land. Please read annals of Bikaner and find out
why is the word "ner" used in Bikaner. (Hint: it is after a Jat on whose lands Rathore
Bika established his kingdom. The Jat Khap of that area gave there lands to Bika
without a fight and Bika gave them lots of honours like using a part of jat clans name
to name his kingdom.) Jats were usually not required by rajput kings to send an
army. This function was carried out solely by the land owners that the king himself
gave lands to.
-Digvijay
In this section below (written by a good friend) origin of different people with same
last name is discussed. Also note that Gujjars and jats refer to there surnames as
there gotras but rajputs do not.
Rajputs and Jats have some similar shakha/gotras. In fact gurjars and rajputs also have some similar shakhas/gotras. They way a shakha/gotra started was usually from the name of person. For example progeny of Kumpa (a rathore) were referred to as Kumpawat. Note Kumpawat is a join of two words: Kumpa (name of the person) + Vats (a hindi word which means children) so kumpawat is literally children of kumpa. Some Gotra's do not use the word Vats they just use the name of the progenitor as in the case of Khokhra/Hara/Deora etc. Others use the combined style as in Ranawat (Maharana Pratap's descendants)/ Kumpawat/ Sangawat etc.
Similarly in western world you will find lot of names like Johnson. These follow similar logic i.e sons of John or Ingriddoitr i.e daughter of Ingrid.
Khokra are a shakha of rathore rajputs who descended from Rao Khokhra, an ancestor of present day Jodhpur/Bikaner royal houses.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rathore#Rathore_Genealogy (Look for Rao Tida's
brother).
There are multiple possibilities how jats and gurjars have similar surnames as rajputs.
a) If you look at today's rajput villages in India, besides rajputs there are other people in the village like Teli (people who extract oil), julaha (weavers), gadariya (cow herds) and some more. Not all but some of them actually put the surname of the rajput clan of that village at the end of there name. Since Jats and rajputs lived in the same villages in rajasthan (In fact there living quarters were not close to each other. Jats mostly lived in houses close to the fields they tilled) it is possible some Jats started using the same surname as the rajputs of that village.
b) Since Jats and rajputs were in the same region they would have seen how rajput gotra's start i.e from a person so it is entirely possible they followed a similar style. Also, even today, people tend to name there children after "known persons" of history. If we take an example: Say Rao Khokhra was an important rathore ruler in medieval rajasthan. It is probable that some jats in villages where Khokra ruled could have named there children Khokra and if this child's progeny thrived they all could have used the patrynomic khokra."
The assertion that Jat is the MOST ancient race is false.
The assertion that all rajputs are descendants of Jats is also a lie.
Rajput is literally "Raja Putra" i.e son of the king.
I will ask you a few questions:
a) Why is that rajputs and Jats are socially so different? If they were same people
they should be socially same. Rajput women do not go and work in the fields
while Jat women do. (Do not give me one off examples. We are taking about
what generally happens in Jat and rajput villages).
b) Why is that rajputs and Jats do not intermarry?
c) Why is it that the ancient Hara and Khichi clan of chauhan rajputs absent in Jats?
(Hooda is not acceptable as Hara because if rajputs can retain Hara/Khichi so
should have Jats if they were same). Hara rajputs ruled Boondi and Kotah.
Prithviraj Chauhan belonged to the Khichi Shakha of Chauhans.
http://www.uq.net.au/~zzhsoszy/ips/misc/chauhan.html
The mistake that you guys are making just as gujjars are making today is that people
with same last names are considered the same. I will give you an example: Rajputs
have Deora Chauhans. Gujjars have Devda Gujjars. The progenitor of each Deora /
Devda clan was a different person who lived in a different geographical location.
Yet today Devda Gujjar might say we are same as Deora Chauhan which of course
is false as is historically recorded.
Jats were pastoralists whose help was taken by rajput kings to make there
kingdoms richer by giving them land. Please read annals of Bikaner and find out
why is the word "ner" used in Bikaner. (Hint: it is after a Jat on whose lands Rathore
Bika established his kingdom. The Jat Khap of that area gave there lands to Bika
without a fight and Bika gave them lots of honours like using a part of jat clans name
to name his kingdom.) Jats were usually not required by rajput kings to send an
army. This function was carried out solely by the land owners that the king himself
gave lands to.
-Digvijay
In this section below (written by a good friend) origin of different people with same
last name is discussed. Also note that Gujjars and jats refer to there surnames as
there gotras but rajputs do not.
Rajputs and Jats have some similar shakha/gotras. In fact gurjars and rajputs also have some similar shakhas/gotras. They way a shakha/gotra started was usually from the name of person. For example progeny of Kumpa (a rathore) were referred to as Kumpawat. Note Kumpawat is a join of two words: Kumpa (name of the person) + Vats (a hindi word which means children) so kumpawat is literally children of kumpa. Some Gotra's do not use the word Vats they just use the name of the progenitor as in the case of Khokhra/Hara/Deora etc. Others use the combined style as in Ranawat (Maharana Pratap's descendants)/ Kumpawat/ Sangawat etc.
Similarly in western world you will find lot of names like Johnson. These follow similar logic i.e sons of John or Ingriddoitr i.e daughter of Ingrid.
Khokra are a shakha of rathore rajputs who descended from Rao Khokhra, an ancestor of present day Jodhpur/Bikaner royal houses.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rathore#Rathore_Genealogy (Look for Rao Tida's
brother).
There are multiple possibilities how jats and gurjars have similar surnames as rajputs.
a) If you look at today's rajput villages in India, besides rajputs there are other people in the village like Teli (people who extract oil), julaha (weavers), gadariya (cow herds) and some more. Not all but some of them actually put the surname of the rajput clan of that village at the end of there name. Since Jats and rajputs lived in the same villages in rajasthan (In fact there living quarters were not close to each other. Jats mostly lived in houses close to the fields they tilled) it is possible some Jats started using the same surname as the rajputs of that village.
b) Since Jats and rajputs were in the same region they would have seen how rajput gotra's start i.e from a person so it is entirely possible they followed a similar style. Also, even today, people tend to name there children after "known persons" of history. If we take an example: Say Rao Khokhra was an important rathore ruler in medieval rajasthan. It is probable that some jats in villages where Khokra ruled could have named there children Khokra and if this child's progeny thrived they all could have used the patrynomic khokra."