08-24-2006, 02:21 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-digvijay+Aug 23 2006, 09:56 PM-->QUOTE(digvijay @ Aug 23 2006, 09:56 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Â Â What do you mean by re-examine the conclusions?
-Digvijay
[right][snapback]56116[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You do need to reexamine your conclusions. To do that you will have to read up on the various versions of history that are there.
I am not interested in a rajput war as you are having with Mr, Harsana of the Gujars in the All Empires group.
I am going to suggest you go through the archives of the yahoo Jathistory group before you continue this discussion
.
Search for Rajput, Bal Baliyan, Gehlaut, Maur, Mori ,Jodhpur, Amber, Jaipur, Harshvardhan, Timur, Akbar, Sarv Khap etc.
There are some excellent online books in the files section. Joon, Desraj( if you can read Hindi)
For the files section you need membership and a yahoo ID.
That is only a click away
[Edited- admin
No Reference to your yahoo group]
After you finish, you will have gained some more knowledge than you possess now.
You may, just may, change your mind and stop writing things like:â the jats lived in rajput villages and start to copy, take on rajput Goth( Gotra) names.â
Briefly:
The average Rajput is a brave fellow and a genuine patriot. Even in the wars between the rajput- Muslim Mughal combine and the Jats of the Braj (Agra, Mathura) the average Rajput agriculturist around Braj sided with the Jats and not with his kinsmen the rajputs of Jaipur, or Handothi.
I will be posting an article on that separately.
At a more advanced level:
The Rajput syndrome is one that only comes into light with the ascendancy of Islam in this country. It gets glorified by the British,( Todd) and later by Hindu Historians.
Th phenomena fitted well into the elusive Kshatriya sought by the castiest Hindu Historians, looking for a glorified past.
All that was significant was thus assigned to the Rajput class. Today our history books teach us just that.
<b>1. Harshvardhan
</b>
Bana's harsh Charita is online in the yahoo Jathistory section in the files section. You are welcome to read it for yourself.
Harshvardhan, is described as Rajyaputra, son of a king, that is what he was, his father was king before him.
That does not make him a Rajput. Equally all rajputs cannot be sons of âA king.â, there must be another explanation.
His goth (clan) is thought to be Virk by some authors- Dahiya, Desraj, who see him descended form the Virk Jats of Mandsor, and Bains by others, Ahlawat and Cunningham, who suggest his grandfather came to Thaneswar( modern Haryana) from the Punjab.
Both Virk and Bains are Jat Goths.
According to the Jat records of the Jat Haryana Sarvkhap,( republic) Harshvardhan was crowned Raja by the Sarvkhap at a meeting of all the Khaps ( republics) in Chaitya (March - April) VS 606. Harsh is credited with uniting the Jat Khaps from Multan to Mandsor, and forming the Sarv Khap itself.
They were the source of his power. He ruled with their consent.
There is no Rajput power/state in Western UP or Haryana.
2. Mor(i) rulers of Chittor ( Jattaur)
You claim that Mori rulers of Chittor were rajputs in 700 CE.
At that time there was no term like Rajput existed.
The older name of Chittor was Jattaur, named after the Jats.
The Mor (i) clan was a branch of the ancient Maur, Mor, Maurya. Another branch was in power in the Sind region and fought with Quasim. Another branch is found n the Konkan region.
They followed a mix of Buddhism, Jainism, and Shaivism. They are abused in Hindu literature as Shudra, so Rajputs they cannot be.
See also :
ON THE GEHLAUT, GUHILAWAT, MUNDTOR GEHLAWAT GOTRAS-
( BRANCHES OF THE BAL/BALIYAN CLAN.)
[edited - admin
provide reference to historical books , not to your yahoo group and messages]
<b>2. Rajput assistance to Muslims:
</b>
This is not restricted to one Rajput leader joining Babulâs side. ,as you would have believe.
Again do read your history and see what service the Rajput leaders of the princely houses of Rajastan, Kangra etc gave to the Muslims. Do not be surprised if you find they acted as the Military subcontractors for the Muslims. You also need to examine the histories of Jaipur, Jodhpur, Shekavati and the other Rajput Jagirs, and see how they were formed and with whose assistance they managed to continue in existence.
This assistance could not have been given without the support and advice of their Hindu priestly mantris, which is a subject all run away from.
The house of Mewar is the only one that stood out like a beacon, and paid the price.
[ Today their descendants may deny it, but they too did not call themselves Rajputs until the 16th century. They knew themselves as Jats. (Humayunâs memoirs)]
This house to its credit rejected the move by the houses of Jodhpur, Jaipur, Bikaner etc in 1947 to join Pakistan.
See:
Re: Role Jats in NW India- part 4 Rajputs opt for Pakistan
[edited - admin
provide reference to historical books , not to your yahoo group and messages]
-Digvijay
[right][snapback]56116[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You do need to reexamine your conclusions. To do that you will have to read up on the various versions of history that are there.
I am not interested in a rajput war as you are having with Mr, Harsana of the Gujars in the All Empires group.
I am going to suggest you go through the archives of the yahoo Jathistory group before you continue this discussion
.
Search for Rajput, Bal Baliyan, Gehlaut, Maur, Mori ,Jodhpur, Amber, Jaipur, Harshvardhan, Timur, Akbar, Sarv Khap etc.
There are some excellent online books in the files section. Joon, Desraj( if you can read Hindi)
For the files section you need membership and a yahoo ID.
That is only a click away
[Edited- admin
No Reference to your yahoo group]
After you finish, you will have gained some more knowledge than you possess now.
You may, just may, change your mind and stop writing things like:â the jats lived in rajput villages and start to copy, take on rajput Goth( Gotra) names.â
Briefly:
The average Rajput is a brave fellow and a genuine patriot. Even in the wars between the rajput- Muslim Mughal combine and the Jats of the Braj (Agra, Mathura) the average Rajput agriculturist around Braj sided with the Jats and not with his kinsmen the rajputs of Jaipur, or Handothi.
I will be posting an article on that separately.
At a more advanced level:
The Rajput syndrome is one that only comes into light with the ascendancy of Islam in this country. It gets glorified by the British,( Todd) and later by Hindu Historians.
Th phenomena fitted well into the elusive Kshatriya sought by the castiest Hindu Historians, looking for a glorified past.
All that was significant was thus assigned to the Rajput class. Today our history books teach us just that.
<b>1. Harshvardhan
</b>
Bana's harsh Charita is online in the yahoo Jathistory section in the files section. You are welcome to read it for yourself.
Harshvardhan, is described as Rajyaputra, son of a king, that is what he was, his father was king before him.
That does not make him a Rajput. Equally all rajputs cannot be sons of âA king.â, there must be another explanation.
His goth (clan) is thought to be Virk by some authors- Dahiya, Desraj, who see him descended form the Virk Jats of Mandsor, and Bains by others, Ahlawat and Cunningham, who suggest his grandfather came to Thaneswar( modern Haryana) from the Punjab.
Both Virk and Bains are Jat Goths.
According to the Jat records of the Jat Haryana Sarvkhap,( republic) Harshvardhan was crowned Raja by the Sarvkhap at a meeting of all the Khaps ( republics) in Chaitya (March - April) VS 606. Harsh is credited with uniting the Jat Khaps from Multan to Mandsor, and forming the Sarv Khap itself.
They were the source of his power. He ruled with their consent.
There is no Rajput power/state in Western UP or Haryana.
2. Mor(i) rulers of Chittor ( Jattaur)
You claim that Mori rulers of Chittor were rajputs in 700 CE.
At that time there was no term like Rajput existed.
The older name of Chittor was Jattaur, named after the Jats.
The Mor (i) clan was a branch of the ancient Maur, Mor, Maurya. Another branch was in power in the Sind region and fought with Quasim. Another branch is found n the Konkan region.
They followed a mix of Buddhism, Jainism, and Shaivism. They are abused in Hindu literature as Shudra, so Rajputs they cannot be.
See also :
ON THE GEHLAUT, GUHILAWAT, MUNDTOR GEHLAWAT GOTRAS-
( BRANCHES OF THE BAL/BALIYAN CLAN.)
[edited - admin
provide reference to historical books , not to your yahoo group and messages]
<b>2. Rajput assistance to Muslims:
</b>
This is not restricted to one Rajput leader joining Babulâs side. ,as you would have believe.
Again do read your history and see what service the Rajput leaders of the princely houses of Rajastan, Kangra etc gave to the Muslims. Do not be surprised if you find they acted as the Military subcontractors for the Muslims. You also need to examine the histories of Jaipur, Jodhpur, Shekavati and the other Rajput Jagirs, and see how they were formed and with whose assistance they managed to continue in existence.
This assistance could not have been given without the support and advice of their Hindu priestly mantris, which is a subject all run away from.
The house of Mewar is the only one that stood out like a beacon, and paid the price.
[ Today their descendants may deny it, but they too did not call themselves Rajputs until the 16th century. They knew themselves as Jats. (Humayunâs memoirs)]
This house to its credit rejected the move by the houses of Jodhpur, Jaipur, Bikaner etc in 1947 to join Pakistan.
See:
Re: Role Jats in NW India- part 4 Rajputs opt for Pakistan
[edited - admin
provide reference to historical books , not to your yahoo group and messages]