01-25-2006, 02:12 PM
Following Dharma is Hinduism/Jainism/Buddhism. No set of laws in Hindu Dharma (other than the Dharma itself of course).
yes.
so there is no way one can be a better or worse hindu, no way one can be a more correct or less correct hindu.
why even try to villify netaji from a un-necessary dharmic reference frame.
netaji carried out his dharma/duty better than 99.9% indians.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->theocratical hindu central command<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Don't know that there was such a thing.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->and then ... free of a theocratical hindu central command.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->So what exactly does this mean? Pax Americana? Go with the flow of progress (whatever's fashionable), calling it Hindu Dharma so you get popular support? It's not the Hindu religion at all.
More importantly what is it you want to change - what do you identify as a theocratical Hindu central command? You've obviously identified this as a problem, but there is no central command. This is not Islam, Christianity or Marxism as you yourself admitted. So I'm really curious what you are referring to here.
i am referring to this dharmic reference frame from which you have started judging all and sundry. thats the sort of theocratical hindu central control system we could do without, unless we want to become a hindu soudi arabia.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->indian people who do their duty follow their dharma (duty).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->And not being able to distinguish right action/duty from wrong is known as adharma.
yes.
netaji managed to distinguish right from wrong just fine.
he knew it was more right to help india become independent with help from hitler, than to NOT do a thing to make india indipendent while maintaining their distance from hitler.
the same way it was more correct for arjun to kill the kuravas than to not kill them.
not that patriots need to be judged from a point of view of dharma or other irrelevant reference frames. the only one that applies to him is of patriotism - where is towers above them all.
So what's the source (book, sloka, whatever you've learnt from your Hindu environment) which helps you decide what is dharma and what is not? Do you randomly decide that what your mind tells you to do is dharma? Then everyone in the world follows dharma. Why oppose the commies/Muslims/Christians/imperialists when they attack Hindus? They're following their "duty" (which you've equated with dharma).
If you refer to humanism as being your guide to duty, then that's a different matter. But it still isn't Hindu Dharma.
if i believe that god is a cowboy, then than becomes part of the hindu dharma.
if 10 million indians believed in that we would have cowboy festivals in hinduism.
and its not me that equated duty with dharma. it just so happens that dharma means duty.
and for the n'th time - religion is irellevant while discussing freedom fighters. you best take such arguements to the RK mission or to mathura where there will be many takers for such tangential arguements.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->hinduism isnt a religion (as the abrahamics understand it) - its a way of life, and of the people, by the people and for the people.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> It is a way of life, but it is the way of life our ancestors had and improved upon. Your suggestions don't seem to be improvements. The people didn't invent it ("by the people") but the ancient rishis were great Yogis who gleaned universal truths and passed them on for the betterment of humanity. To forget and bypass all of that and call whatever goes "Hinduism" isn't Hinduism at all.
your opinions on hinduism is a valid or invalid as anyone else's - cso hinduism is a bell curve of the religious beliefs of 1 billion[people.
btw, you seem more devout than patriotic. i have no time for sanya-sins.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->mugging slokas... doesn't help. you seem to lok at hinduism as a set of laws to be followed.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> You know nothing about me.
and dont want to either.
And these statements seem to indicate you know little of Hinduism too. I suggest you read the Gita and the Upanishads. If that doesn't interest you, read the Dhammapada (Buddhist) or any Jain scriptures in English translation. Or the Tao teh Ching. Some of this is bound to interest you. If nothing appeals to you, look at Bertrand Russell or some other western atheist/agnostic authors (I don't think Thomas Paine et al's Deism will appeal to you, because it involves a God).
i could do without advice from you on religion, that to on a netaji thread
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->and firstly i'd want india to be free - and then free from islam, marzists and free from lunatic analogies and free of a theocratical hindu central command.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> (Assuming "free from Christianity" is included somewhere in there)
And then....? Pax Americana, sorry Pax Indiana?
no just a free india.
can you never ever manage to read betwen the lines and get the subtext??
By the way, if you get the India you want, quite a few Hindus will want to seccede.
i am sure you will be one of them. not that i will mind.
It's no Hinduism we know, nor an India we want. It's odd that at some point you accused me of being a greater evil than any of the 3 ideologies threatening India. And yet, the more you post, the more I get the feeling that you are not quite certain what Hindu Dharma is and what it isn't.
it isnt anything one can pin point, or define.
- If you want an atheist country, one that is proud of a historic "Hindu culture and thought" (but which is nevertheless confined to history), fine. Say that then.
when did i say i want an atheist country??
i am just an agnostic - i dont know for sure if there is a god nor know for sure if there isnt any.
- If you want to just exist with your wife and children and coexist with others, fine.
let me get hold of a wife first. i'd like to marry a blue eyed pagan... better than a starry eyed hindu.
but even it it wasnt fine with you - i dont give a cat/rat's ass
I guess that's a form of Hinduism... and Deism... and many other religions.
- But if you want to <i>guide</i> the country down a path that is beyond anything that is familiar or acceptable to the part of the Indian population that does follow Dharma, then know that it is not Hinduism you are following.
thanks socrates for al that advice. really apt on a netaji thread
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->i always thought hinduism ws something that followed the peope of india, cos its the bell curve of all our existing religious belief.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> So I guess if we all became Christians - then Christianity is Hinduism. "Whatever we do, whatever we become - it's Hinduism." Interesting concept, but it's wrong.
It is supposed to be: <i>as long as we follow and are guided by the Eternal Dharma</i>, what we do and become adds to the evolution of Hinduism.
nope. christianity is not native to the people of india. its an imported concept. not home grown.
hinduism is the bell curve all the surviving hime grown religious beliefs of indians.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->i am not a religious person, just a proud hindu, not a pious hindu.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> You're a proud Indian who prefers Hinduism to Christianity/Marxism/Islam. If born a Buddhist or Jain you would identify yourself as a "proud Jain/Buddhist and proud Indian". Or would you have gone out of your way to convert to the mainstream Hindu Dharma?
well i am glad i am not a jain or buddhist - no offense intended - just that i my religion to be who i am not what i believe or folow. in fact i dont like to follow anything but my own call. hence i am a pukka hindu.
FINALLY ONE LAST REQUEST - ITS BAD ENOUGH THAT YOU DID YOUR LEVEL BEST TO CLUB NETAJI WITH THE HITLERS AND OTHER VILLAINS - THAT TOO ON JAN 23RD - HIS BIRTHDAY. NOW FOR HEAVENS SAKE AT LEAST STICK TO THE TOPIC AND DONT BRING DHARMA, MICKEY MOUSE, KAMA SUTRA AND CRICKET INTO THIS THREAD. IF YOU WANT TO TALK DHARMA AND WHATS HINDUISM AND WHATS NOT, THERE ARE PLENTY OF THREADS ON THAT - THIS ONE IS ABOUT NETAJI, ABOUT INDIAS FREEDOM MOVEMANT AND RELATED TOPICS.
yes.
so there is no way one can be a better or worse hindu, no way one can be a more correct or less correct hindu.
why even try to villify netaji from a un-necessary dharmic reference frame.
netaji carried out his dharma/duty better than 99.9% indians.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->theocratical hindu central command<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Don't know that there was such a thing.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->and then ... free of a theocratical hindu central command.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->So what exactly does this mean? Pax Americana? Go with the flow of progress (whatever's fashionable), calling it Hindu Dharma so you get popular support? It's not the Hindu religion at all.
More importantly what is it you want to change - what do you identify as a theocratical Hindu central command? You've obviously identified this as a problem, but there is no central command. This is not Islam, Christianity or Marxism as you yourself admitted. So I'm really curious what you are referring to here.
i am referring to this dharmic reference frame from which you have started judging all and sundry. thats the sort of theocratical hindu central control system we could do without, unless we want to become a hindu soudi arabia.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->indian people who do their duty follow their dharma (duty).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->And not being able to distinguish right action/duty from wrong is known as adharma.
yes.
netaji managed to distinguish right from wrong just fine.
he knew it was more right to help india become independent with help from hitler, than to NOT do a thing to make india indipendent while maintaining their distance from hitler.
the same way it was more correct for arjun to kill the kuravas than to not kill them.
not that patriots need to be judged from a point of view of dharma or other irrelevant reference frames. the only one that applies to him is of patriotism - where is towers above them all.
So what's the source (book, sloka, whatever you've learnt from your Hindu environment) which helps you decide what is dharma and what is not? Do you randomly decide that what your mind tells you to do is dharma? Then everyone in the world follows dharma. Why oppose the commies/Muslims/Christians/imperialists when they attack Hindus? They're following their "duty" (which you've equated with dharma).
If you refer to humanism as being your guide to duty, then that's a different matter. But it still isn't Hindu Dharma.
if i believe that god is a cowboy, then than becomes part of the hindu dharma.
if 10 million indians believed in that we would have cowboy festivals in hinduism.
and its not me that equated duty with dharma. it just so happens that dharma means duty.
and for the n'th time - religion is irellevant while discussing freedom fighters. you best take such arguements to the RK mission or to mathura where there will be many takers for such tangential arguements.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->hinduism isnt a religion (as the abrahamics understand it) - its a way of life, and of the people, by the people and for the people.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> It is a way of life, but it is the way of life our ancestors had and improved upon. Your suggestions don't seem to be improvements. The people didn't invent it ("by the people") but the ancient rishis were great Yogis who gleaned universal truths and passed them on for the betterment of humanity. To forget and bypass all of that and call whatever goes "Hinduism" isn't Hinduism at all.
your opinions on hinduism is a valid or invalid as anyone else's - cso hinduism is a bell curve of the religious beliefs of 1 billion[people.
btw, you seem more devout than patriotic. i have no time for sanya-sins.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->mugging slokas... doesn't help. you seem to lok at hinduism as a set of laws to be followed.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> You know nothing about me.
and dont want to either.
And these statements seem to indicate you know little of Hinduism too. I suggest you read the Gita and the Upanishads. If that doesn't interest you, read the Dhammapada (Buddhist) or any Jain scriptures in English translation. Or the Tao teh Ching. Some of this is bound to interest you. If nothing appeals to you, look at Bertrand Russell or some other western atheist/agnostic authors (I don't think Thomas Paine et al's Deism will appeal to you, because it involves a God).
i could do without advice from you on religion, that to on a netaji thread
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->and firstly i'd want india to be free - and then free from islam, marzists and free from lunatic analogies and free of a theocratical hindu central command.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> (Assuming "free from Christianity" is included somewhere in there)
And then....? Pax Americana, sorry Pax Indiana?
no just a free india.
can you never ever manage to read betwen the lines and get the subtext??
By the way, if you get the India you want, quite a few Hindus will want to seccede.
i am sure you will be one of them. not that i will mind.
It's no Hinduism we know, nor an India we want. It's odd that at some point you accused me of being a greater evil than any of the 3 ideologies threatening India. And yet, the more you post, the more I get the feeling that you are not quite certain what Hindu Dharma is and what it isn't.
it isnt anything one can pin point, or define.
- If you want an atheist country, one that is proud of a historic "Hindu culture and thought" (but which is nevertheless confined to history), fine. Say that then.
when did i say i want an atheist country??
i am just an agnostic - i dont know for sure if there is a god nor know for sure if there isnt any.
- If you want to just exist with your wife and children and coexist with others, fine.
let me get hold of a wife first. i'd like to marry a blue eyed pagan... better than a starry eyed hindu.
but even it it wasnt fine with you - i dont give a cat/rat's ass
I guess that's a form of Hinduism... and Deism... and many other religions.
- But if you want to <i>guide</i> the country down a path that is beyond anything that is familiar or acceptable to the part of the Indian population that does follow Dharma, then know that it is not Hinduism you are following.
thanks socrates for al that advice. really apt on a netaji thread
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->i always thought hinduism ws something that followed the peope of india, cos its the bell curve of all our existing religious belief.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> So I guess if we all became Christians - then Christianity is Hinduism. "Whatever we do, whatever we become - it's Hinduism." Interesting concept, but it's wrong.
It is supposed to be: <i>as long as we follow and are guided by the Eternal Dharma</i>, what we do and become adds to the evolution of Hinduism.
nope. christianity is not native to the people of india. its an imported concept. not home grown.
hinduism is the bell curve all the surviving hime grown religious beliefs of indians.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->i am not a religious person, just a proud hindu, not a pious hindu.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> You're a proud Indian who prefers Hinduism to Christianity/Marxism/Islam. If born a Buddhist or Jain you would identify yourself as a "proud Jain/Buddhist and proud Indian". Or would you have gone out of your way to convert to the mainstream Hindu Dharma?
well i am glad i am not a jain or buddhist - no offense intended - just that i my religion to be who i am not what i believe or folow. in fact i dont like to follow anything but my own call. hence i am a pukka hindu.
FINALLY ONE LAST REQUEST - ITS BAD ENOUGH THAT YOU DID YOUR LEVEL BEST TO CLUB NETAJI WITH THE HITLERS AND OTHER VILLAINS - THAT TOO ON JAN 23RD - HIS BIRTHDAY. NOW FOR HEAVENS SAKE AT LEAST STICK TO THE TOPIC AND DONT BRING DHARMA, MICKEY MOUSE, KAMA SUTRA AND CRICKET INTO THIS THREAD. IF YOU WANT TO TALK DHARMA AND WHATS HINDUISM AND WHATS NOT, THERE ARE PLENTY OF THREADS ON THAT - THIS ONE IS ABOUT NETAJI, ABOUT INDIAS FREEDOM MOVEMANT AND RELATED TOPICS.