01-17-2006, 07:14 AM
Talageri's book at http://voiceofdharma.org/books/rig/ch6.htm refers to <b>Gherardo Gnoli</b>'s work (The <b>VidEvdAt or VendidAd is abbreviated to Vd</b>):<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->But the <b>geographical facts of the Avesta, as set out by Gnoli</b> in great detail in his book <i>Zoroasterâs Time and Homeland</i>, show very <b>clearly that the oldest regions known to the Iranians were Afghanistan and areas to its east</b>. They also show (and he says so specifically in no uncertain terms) that <b>areas to the west, and also to the north, were either totally unknown to the Iranians, or else they were areas newly known to them and which did not form a part of their traditional ethos. Any references to migrations, in his analysis, are always to migrations from east to west or from south to north.</b>
...
Gnoli repeatedly stresses âthe fact that Avestan geography, particularly the list in Vd. I, is confined to the east,â30 and points out that this list is âremarkably important in reconstructing the early history of Zoroastrianismâ.31
Elsewhere, he again refers to âthe entirely eastern character of the countries listed in the first chapter of the VendidAd, including Zoroastrian RaYa, and the historical and geographical importance of that listâ.32
The horizon of the Avesta, Gnoli notes, âis according to Burrow, wholly eastern and therefore certainly earlier than the westward migrations of the Iranian tribes.â33
...
In great detail, <b>he rejects theories which seek to connect up some of the places named in the Avesta (such as Airyana VaEjah and RaYa) with areas in the west</b>, and concludes that this attempt to transpose the geography of the Avesta from Afghanistan to western Iran âwas doubtless due to different attempts made by the most powerful religious centres of western Iran and the influential order of the Magi to appropriate the traditions of Zoroastrianism that had flourished in the eastern territories of the plateau in far-off times. Without a doubt, the identification of RaYa with AdurbAdagAn, more or less parallel with its identification with Ray, should be fitted into the vaster picture of the <b>late location of Airyana VaEjah in ADarbAyjAn</b>.â34
The crucial geographical list of sixteen Iranian lands, in the first chapter of the VendidAd, is fully identified: âFrom the second to the sixteenth country, we have quite a compact and consistent picture. The order goes roughly from north to south and then towards the east: Sogdiana (Gava), Margiana (Mourv), Bactria (BAx?I, Nisaya between Margiana and Bactria, Areia (HarOiva), KAbulistAn (VaEkArAta), the GaznI region (UrvA), XnAnta, Arachosia (HaraxvaitI), Drangiana (HaEtumant), a territory between Zamin-dAvar and Qalâat-i-Gilzay (RaYa), the LUgar valley (Caxra), BunEr (VarAna), <b>PañjAb (Hapta HAndu)</b>, <b>RaNhA ⦠between the KAbul and the Kurram, in the region where it seems likely the Vedic river RasA flowed.</b>â35
<b>Gnoli notes that India is very much a part of the geographical picture: âWith VarAna and RaNhA, as of course with Hapta HAndu, which comes between them in the Vd. I list, we find ourselves straight away in Indian territory</b>, or, at any rate, in territory that, from the very earliest times, was certainly deeply permeated by Indo-Aryans or Proto-Indoaryans.â36
Although the scholars are careful to include ânortheastern modem Iranâ in their descriptions, the <b>areas covered by the VendidAd list only touch the easternmost borders of Iran</b>: but they cover the whole of Afghanistan, the northern half of present-day Pakistan (NWFP, Punjab), and the southern parts of Central Asia to the north of Afghanistan, and, again, in the east, they enter the northwestern borders of present-day (post-1947) India.
...
RaNhA itself leads Gnoli âto think of an eastern mountainous area, Indian or Indo-Iranian, hit by intense cold in winterâ.38
<b>In sum, the geography of the Avesta almost totally excludes present-day Iran </b>and areas to its north and west, and consists exclusively of Afghanistan and areas to its north and east, including parts of Rigvedic India (see map opposite p.120).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->When it comes to Zoroaster, it is generally accepted that he was born in Balkh. Since Iranians settled in Iran after Afghanistan, as indicated by the Avesta, Balkh seems more than a possibility.
I don't know which place the Avesta refers to when speaking of "Airyanam Vaejah", but because most of Iran was unknown to the Iranians prior to them settling there, it seems to rule out its chances of being the Iranian homeland.
...
Gnoli repeatedly stresses âthe fact that Avestan geography, particularly the list in Vd. I, is confined to the east,â30 and points out that this list is âremarkably important in reconstructing the early history of Zoroastrianismâ.31
Elsewhere, he again refers to âthe entirely eastern character of the countries listed in the first chapter of the VendidAd, including Zoroastrian RaYa, and the historical and geographical importance of that listâ.32
The horizon of the Avesta, Gnoli notes, âis according to Burrow, wholly eastern and therefore certainly earlier than the westward migrations of the Iranian tribes.â33
...
In great detail, <b>he rejects theories which seek to connect up some of the places named in the Avesta (such as Airyana VaEjah and RaYa) with areas in the west</b>, and concludes that this attempt to transpose the geography of the Avesta from Afghanistan to western Iran âwas doubtless due to different attempts made by the most powerful religious centres of western Iran and the influential order of the Magi to appropriate the traditions of Zoroastrianism that had flourished in the eastern territories of the plateau in far-off times. Without a doubt, the identification of RaYa with AdurbAdagAn, more or less parallel with its identification with Ray, should be fitted into the vaster picture of the <b>late location of Airyana VaEjah in ADarbAyjAn</b>.â34
The crucial geographical list of sixteen Iranian lands, in the first chapter of the VendidAd, is fully identified: âFrom the second to the sixteenth country, we have quite a compact and consistent picture. The order goes roughly from north to south and then towards the east: Sogdiana (Gava), Margiana (Mourv), Bactria (BAx?I, Nisaya between Margiana and Bactria, Areia (HarOiva), KAbulistAn (VaEkArAta), the GaznI region (UrvA), XnAnta, Arachosia (HaraxvaitI), Drangiana (HaEtumant), a territory between Zamin-dAvar and Qalâat-i-Gilzay (RaYa), the LUgar valley (Caxra), BunEr (VarAna), <b>PañjAb (Hapta HAndu)</b>, <b>RaNhA ⦠between the KAbul and the Kurram, in the region where it seems likely the Vedic river RasA flowed.</b>â35
<b>Gnoli notes that India is very much a part of the geographical picture: âWith VarAna and RaNhA, as of course with Hapta HAndu, which comes between them in the Vd. I list, we find ourselves straight away in Indian territory</b>, or, at any rate, in territory that, from the very earliest times, was certainly deeply permeated by Indo-Aryans or Proto-Indoaryans.â36
Although the scholars are careful to include ânortheastern modem Iranâ in their descriptions, the <b>areas covered by the VendidAd list only touch the easternmost borders of Iran</b>: but they cover the whole of Afghanistan, the northern half of present-day Pakistan (NWFP, Punjab), and the southern parts of Central Asia to the north of Afghanistan, and, again, in the east, they enter the northwestern borders of present-day (post-1947) India.
...
RaNhA itself leads Gnoli âto think of an eastern mountainous area, Indian or Indo-Iranian, hit by intense cold in winterâ.38
<b>In sum, the geography of the Avesta almost totally excludes present-day Iran </b>and areas to its north and west, and consists exclusively of Afghanistan and areas to its north and east, including parts of Rigvedic India (see map opposite p.120).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->When it comes to Zoroaster, it is generally accepted that he was born in Balkh. Since Iranians settled in Iran after Afghanistan, as indicated by the Avesta, Balkh seems more than a possibility.
I don't know which place the Avesta refers to when speaking of "Airyanam Vaejah", but because most of Iran was unknown to the Iranians prior to them settling there, it seems to rule out its chances of being the Iranian homeland.