01-17-2006, 06:56 AM
Ashok Kumar,
Something very interesting came up in your post #41. "Vanguhi <b>Daitya</b>" which - as per the link you got the excerpt from ( http://www.avesta.org/vendidad/vd1sbe.htm ) - means 'the Vanguhi of the Law'.
So Daitya is a reference to something Iranian. Adityas vs Daityas is like Suras (Devas) vs Ahuras, when it comes to terminology. Once again, a word that so many people have assumed as referring to the "Dravidians" turns out to refer to an Iranian element.
For the next section and the subsequent post I'll be referring to the part from the Avesta you pasted along with "Note 5" about Airyanem Vaejo, Oxus, "Adarbajan", etc.
If Iran proper was the homeland of the Iranians, how does one make sense of the early Avesta references to Hapta Hendu. From Elst' in http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/books/ait/ch46.htm <!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The Iranian homelands Airyanam Vaejo, described as too cold in its 10-months-long winter, and Hapta-Hendu, described as rendered too hot for men (i.e. the Iranians) by the wicked Angra-Mainyu, are Kashmir and Sapta-Saindhavah (Panjab-Haryana) respectively.54 They are considered as the first two of sixteen countries successively allotted to the Iranians, the rest being the areas where the Iranians have effectively been living in proto-historical times. This scenario tallies quite exactly with the Vedic and Puranic data about the history of the Anavas, one of the five branches of the Aila/Saudyumna people: from Kashmir, they invaded Sapta-Saindhavah, but were defeated by the Paurava branch (which composed the Rg-Veda) and driven northwestward.
<b>Those who deny this scenario have had to invent a second âland of seven riversâ as the common Indo-Iranian homeland, from which the Iraniansâ Vedic cousins took the name but not the memory into India;</b> or to interpret the Avestan river-name Ranha (correlate of Sanskrit RasA, the Puranic name of the Amu Darya or Oxus) as meaning the Volga.55 It is a safe rule of scientific method that <b>âentities are not to be multiplied without necessityâ (Occamâs razor)</b>, and therefore, until proof of the contrary, we should accept that the term Sapta Saindhavah and its Iranian evolute Hapta Hendu refer to the same region historically known by that name. Both Indian and Iranian sources situate the break-up between Indians and Iranians, Deva- and Asura-worshippers, in Sapta-Saindhavah. Before such a concordant testimony of all parties concerned, it is quite pretentious to claim that one knows it all better, and that they separated in Iran or Central Asia instead. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Even in the consideration (going against Occam's Razor) of there being a reduplication of Sapta Sindhu in Afghanistan under the name "Hapta Hendu" - it's still in Afghanistan and not Iran. But Hapta Hendu has been identified with India's Punjab by Gnoli (who has studied the Avesta):<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Kochhar is mistaken when he claims that "India does not figure in the Avestan and Pahlevi literature at all" (p.97). <b>The land of seven rivers, Hapta Hendu, mentioned in Videvdad 1, is none other than Sapta-Sindhu, northwestern India (confirmed e.g. by Gherardo Gnoli: De Zoroastre à Mani, Paris 1985, p.26)</b>, and not the Afghan Farah-rud as Kochhar arbitrarily claims. Also, Airyanam Vaejo, mentioned ibidem, is a bit of a mystery to iranologists, but one serious candidate is certainly Kashmir, where summer does indeed last only two months, in conformity with the description given. The Persian word Hindu for "Indian" confirms that, contrary to Kochhar's claim, Hindu/Sindhu was their name for the Indus river and not merely a generic term for "river".<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Something very interesting came up in your post #41. "Vanguhi <b>Daitya</b>" which - as per the link you got the excerpt from ( http://www.avesta.org/vendidad/vd1sbe.htm ) - means 'the Vanguhi of the Law'.
So Daitya is a reference to something Iranian. Adityas vs Daityas is like Suras (Devas) vs Ahuras, when it comes to terminology. Once again, a word that so many people have assumed as referring to the "Dravidians" turns out to refer to an Iranian element.
For the next section and the subsequent post I'll be referring to the part from the Avesta you pasted along with "Note 5" about Airyanem Vaejo, Oxus, "Adarbajan", etc.
If Iran proper was the homeland of the Iranians, how does one make sense of the early Avesta references to Hapta Hendu. From Elst' in http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/books/ait/ch46.htm <!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The Iranian homelands Airyanam Vaejo, described as too cold in its 10-months-long winter, and Hapta-Hendu, described as rendered too hot for men (i.e. the Iranians) by the wicked Angra-Mainyu, are Kashmir and Sapta-Saindhavah (Panjab-Haryana) respectively.54 They are considered as the first two of sixteen countries successively allotted to the Iranians, the rest being the areas where the Iranians have effectively been living in proto-historical times. This scenario tallies quite exactly with the Vedic and Puranic data about the history of the Anavas, one of the five branches of the Aila/Saudyumna people: from Kashmir, they invaded Sapta-Saindhavah, but were defeated by the Paurava branch (which composed the Rg-Veda) and driven northwestward.
<b>Those who deny this scenario have had to invent a second âland of seven riversâ as the common Indo-Iranian homeland, from which the Iraniansâ Vedic cousins took the name but not the memory into India;</b> or to interpret the Avestan river-name Ranha (correlate of Sanskrit RasA, the Puranic name of the Amu Darya or Oxus) as meaning the Volga.55 It is a safe rule of scientific method that <b>âentities are not to be multiplied without necessityâ (Occamâs razor)</b>, and therefore, until proof of the contrary, we should accept that the term Sapta Saindhavah and its Iranian evolute Hapta Hendu refer to the same region historically known by that name. Both Indian and Iranian sources situate the break-up between Indians and Iranians, Deva- and Asura-worshippers, in Sapta-Saindhavah. Before such a concordant testimony of all parties concerned, it is quite pretentious to claim that one knows it all better, and that they separated in Iran or Central Asia instead. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Even in the consideration (going against Occam's Razor) of there being a reduplication of Sapta Sindhu in Afghanistan under the name "Hapta Hendu" - it's still in Afghanistan and not Iran. But Hapta Hendu has been identified with India's Punjab by Gnoli (who has studied the Avesta):<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Kochhar is mistaken when he claims that "India does not figure in the Avestan and Pahlevi literature at all" (p.97). <b>The land of seven rivers, Hapta Hendu, mentioned in Videvdad 1, is none other than Sapta-Sindhu, northwestern India (confirmed e.g. by Gherardo Gnoli: De Zoroastre à Mani, Paris 1985, p.26)</b>, and not the Afghan Farah-rud as Kochhar arbitrarily claims. Also, Airyanam Vaejo, mentioned ibidem, is a bit of a mystery to iranologists, but one serious candidate is certainly Kashmir, where summer does indeed last only two months, in conformity with the description given. The Persian word Hindu for "Indian" confirms that, contrary to Kochhar's claim, Hindu/Sindhu was their name for the Indus river and not merely a generic term for "river".<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->