01-17-2006, 05:07 AM
Ben Ami, first a reply to your question:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->is the story of the saviour indeed a fable?? he never existed?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Let's put it this way: so many Godmen born of virgins, so many pre-Christian crucifictions (the Greek God Dionysus was depicted as such on a cross centuries before Christ was, in the same pose!), so many resurrections, so many "saviours". Entire chapters of the Bible are from other religious sources (as I recall, the Book of Revelations is Zoroastrian and Egyptian scripture). Parts of the "Fall in the Garden of Eden" story was similar to a story native to Greece, see http://www.greatlie.com/en/bookphotos.cfm?id=8&photo=2
One of the two <i>contrary</i> creation myths of the Bible, is from Zoroastrian and taken from the Avesta:
http://www.africawithin.com/jgjackson/jgja...ican_origin.htm (look for the word "Bundahish").
Jesus' supposed life is assembled from the lives of, amongst others, Krishna and Buddha. It includes, but is not limited to, Kamsa mirrored in Herod's actions, Buddha's dealings with a woman of low caste copied into the story of the Good Samaritan, etc. Likewise, other parts of Jesus' life are taken from other Gods' and heroes life stories*.
Many sayings attributed to Jesus in the New Testament, were stolen from Krishna's words in the Gita, from Buddha, as well as from famous heroes and Gods from other parts of the world.
Jesus turning water into wine which is celebrated during the "Epiphany(?)", was taken over from the celebration of Dionysus's miracle of water-into-wine which had previously occurred during the same time-period. Dionysus was the Greek God of Wine and Joy who yearly turned entire rivers into wine, so it only makes sense when Dionysus did it.
Baptism was performed by many people in the Middle-Eastern region. Many Biblical scholars and critics actually think it was taken over from an Indian tradition.
The Persian influences on Christianity (example, the word "paradise" entered Hebrew as "pardes" from the Iranian word Paradaiza which in Samskrt is Paradesha) are too numerous to list. But they include the story of the three "Magis" (Zoroastrian priests) guided by a bright star to visit the baby Jesus. This is said to lifted from the prediction of the Saoshyant, the Zoroastrian Saviour who will restore the world to right, mixed with the birth of either Zoroaster himself or Mithra.
In short, the Jesus of the New Testament was a construction that brought together the most common or out-of-context components of previous Gods and great men. Out-of-context is the key phrase as nothing makes sense in the setting of the New Testament or as enacted by Jesus. But when one finds it in the original source, the meaning becomes clear. Even the Gospel of St Thomas (likely to have been written down long after Thomas could have existed, if he ever did, although written before the 4 officially recognised gospels), has phrases that are extremely familiar to anyone who's read the Gita. Note: it's mentioned in another thread here, but the St Thomas Gospel has never been in the possession of the "Syrian" Christians of India.
In addition to all this, Christianity is in irreconcilable conflict with Judaism on the most important point. Christians conflated the Jewish term Messiah with the Zoroastrian Saoshyant. The Jewish Messiah was not someone who was to bring a spiritual world about which is the definition of the Saoshyant. The Messiah was to be a political leader (of the line of King David I think), who was to restore the temple of Jerusalem and end the oppression of the Hebrew people (under Rome, I believe) and lead them to have their own nation. The Messiah has nothing to do with anyone sent to "save souls" from the "original sin" or any other sin. So according to the Jews, the Messiah never came. We must believe the Jewish people on this, because after all Messiah is their term for something unique to their religion. It was (mis)appropriated by the early Church which, being mainly Roman or Byzantine, had little understanding of Hebrew and Judaism and made this colossal error in translation.
Finally, there were many Jesuses in the time that JC was claimed to have lived. None of them, in any important respect, matches the description of the JC of faith/of the Bible. There is ample historical evidence for the many Jesuses, none for the JC of Christianity.
More information can be found at:
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com (the name of the site is clear in itself)
*There is more than enough reason to suspect that the story of Jesus having been in Kashmir was not that of Jesus but Apollonius of Tyana who is known to have travelled and learnt spiritual teachings in India (even as per his own admission). See http://www.askwhy.co.uk/christianity/074...onius.html and http://www.askwhy.co.uk/christianity/0685L...html#Apollonius. He had performed the same miracles that the Jesus of Christianity is claimed to have performed, but Apollonius referred to them as being based on the laws of nature. Come 4th century, the by then well-established Christianity declared Apollonius an anti-Christ. A big surprise. Some people can't take competition for their mythical creation in the form of historically attested characters who led a similar life to the invented character (i.e. Christ).
Make up your own mind: take away all the plagiarism inherent in Jesus' life and sayings and what have you got? Nothing. Well, that's exactly how much historians, biblical scholars and archaeologists have been able to find about the Jesus of history: nothing. (The recent James' brother of Jesus ossuary has been declared a fake like all the many 'proofs of Jesus' existence' before and doubtless all of them to come).
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->is the story of the saviour indeed a fable?? he never existed?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Let's put it this way: so many Godmen born of virgins, so many pre-Christian crucifictions (the Greek God Dionysus was depicted as such on a cross centuries before Christ was, in the same pose!), so many resurrections, so many "saviours". Entire chapters of the Bible are from other religious sources (as I recall, the Book of Revelations is Zoroastrian and Egyptian scripture). Parts of the "Fall in the Garden of Eden" story was similar to a story native to Greece, see http://www.greatlie.com/en/bookphotos.cfm?id=8&photo=2
One of the two <i>contrary</i> creation myths of the Bible, is from Zoroastrian and taken from the Avesta:
http://www.africawithin.com/jgjackson/jgja...ican_origin.htm (look for the word "Bundahish").
Jesus' supposed life is assembled from the lives of, amongst others, Krishna and Buddha. It includes, but is not limited to, Kamsa mirrored in Herod's actions, Buddha's dealings with a woman of low caste copied into the story of the Good Samaritan, etc. Likewise, other parts of Jesus' life are taken from other Gods' and heroes life stories*.
Many sayings attributed to Jesus in the New Testament, were stolen from Krishna's words in the Gita, from Buddha, as well as from famous heroes and Gods from other parts of the world.
Jesus turning water into wine which is celebrated during the "Epiphany(?)", was taken over from the celebration of Dionysus's miracle of water-into-wine which had previously occurred during the same time-period. Dionysus was the Greek God of Wine and Joy who yearly turned entire rivers into wine, so it only makes sense when Dionysus did it.
Baptism was performed by many people in the Middle-Eastern region. Many Biblical scholars and critics actually think it was taken over from an Indian tradition.
The Persian influences on Christianity (example, the word "paradise" entered Hebrew as "pardes" from the Iranian word Paradaiza which in Samskrt is Paradesha) are too numerous to list. But they include the story of the three "Magis" (Zoroastrian priests) guided by a bright star to visit the baby Jesus. This is said to lifted from the prediction of the Saoshyant, the Zoroastrian Saviour who will restore the world to right, mixed with the birth of either Zoroaster himself or Mithra.
In short, the Jesus of the New Testament was a construction that brought together the most common or out-of-context components of previous Gods and great men. Out-of-context is the key phrase as nothing makes sense in the setting of the New Testament or as enacted by Jesus. But when one finds it in the original source, the meaning becomes clear. Even the Gospel of St Thomas (likely to have been written down long after Thomas could have existed, if he ever did, although written before the 4 officially recognised gospels), has phrases that are extremely familiar to anyone who's read the Gita. Note: it's mentioned in another thread here, but the St Thomas Gospel has never been in the possession of the "Syrian" Christians of India.
In addition to all this, Christianity is in irreconcilable conflict with Judaism on the most important point. Christians conflated the Jewish term Messiah with the Zoroastrian Saoshyant. The Jewish Messiah was not someone who was to bring a spiritual world about which is the definition of the Saoshyant. The Messiah was to be a political leader (of the line of King David I think), who was to restore the temple of Jerusalem and end the oppression of the Hebrew people (under Rome, I believe) and lead them to have their own nation. The Messiah has nothing to do with anyone sent to "save souls" from the "original sin" or any other sin. So according to the Jews, the Messiah never came. We must believe the Jewish people on this, because after all Messiah is their term for something unique to their religion. It was (mis)appropriated by the early Church which, being mainly Roman or Byzantine, had little understanding of Hebrew and Judaism and made this colossal error in translation.
Finally, there were many Jesuses in the time that JC was claimed to have lived. None of them, in any important respect, matches the description of the JC of faith/of the Bible. There is ample historical evidence for the many Jesuses, none for the JC of Christianity.
More information can be found at:
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com (the name of the site is clear in itself)
*There is more than enough reason to suspect that the story of Jesus having been in Kashmir was not that of Jesus but Apollonius of Tyana who is known to have travelled and learnt spiritual teachings in India (even as per his own admission). See http://www.askwhy.co.uk/christianity/074...onius.html and http://www.askwhy.co.uk/christianity/0685L...html#Apollonius. He had performed the same miracles that the Jesus of Christianity is claimed to have performed, but Apollonius referred to them as being based on the laws of nature. Come 4th century, the by then well-established Christianity declared Apollonius an anti-Christ. A big surprise. Some people can't take competition for their mythical creation in the form of historically attested characters who led a similar life to the invented character (i.e. Christ).
Make up your own mind: take away all the plagiarism inherent in Jesus' life and sayings and what have you got? Nothing. Well, that's exactly how much historians, biblical scholars and archaeologists have been able to find about the Jesus of history: nothing. (The recent James' brother of Jesus ossuary has been declared a fake like all the many 'proofs of Jesus' existence' before and doubtless all of them to come).