01-13-2006, 03:32 AM
Hauma,
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Iran is indeed derived from Airyana vaejo not Aila. There is no doubt about this.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->I did think that Airyanam Vaejo referred to Noble land. I have no idea about etymology.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Many Indo-Iranian tribes called themselves Aryan, but specifically declared their rivals non-Aryan.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Koenraad Elst states that they used the word Airya like Arya was used by the Pauravas. So their rivals like the Shakas were definitely not designated as such (Airya/Arya). The Saxons, whether of Germany or England, can stop all references to themselves as Aryan.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The claim that Sassanians persecuted others is particularly exaggerated by the Western Christian authors.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->I knew it! Wikipedia is where I first came across the story of the "persecuting Sassanians". But I didn't completely believe it. Then I started to more than just suspect it when an Armenian Christian site was listing all the persecutions it had suffered at the hands of Zoroastrianism. I wondered why they were accusing Zoroastrianism in general when it was obvious they were referring to the allegations against the Sassianian rulers. Then it struck me (I was later proven right): Zoroastrianism is making somewhat of a comeback in Armenia!
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->rising Mithraism which was pretty similar to Mazdaism but concentrated on Mithra rather than Mazda (varuNa).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Fascinating.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->After Constantine's conversion the Christian exclusivism spread to Iranian territories. Constantine advised the Iranian emperor Shapur II to convert to the Yesu mata. Of course the Iranians did not bother. That initiated the holy war of the Christians. About 80 years later Christians started desecrating Iranian fire temples. This resulted in swift retaliation as the Christians were punished by the Iranian for their hostile attacks in Iranian territory. They fled west into the Roman territory and sought aid from the Christian roman emperor. In the christian Roman empire Iranian and other pagan shrines like those of the Germans were descrated, though Iran itself recognized minority rights of Christians and provided them protection to worship.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Sometimes, I wish India would behave a bit more like Persia in the face of Christian aggression. Replace Constantine's empire with any remnant Christian missionary factions in Europe and the western Roman empire with missionary America. India should say no to missionaries: no more overt or covert evangelisation.
However, Persia was too kind in "recognising the minority rights of Christians" within the Zoroastrian heartland. If Islam hadn't come along to change history into the misery we know, doubtless Christianity in Persia would have started showing serious fangs.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->There has been large scale displacement of the original Iranian stock in Iran by the Moslems<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->I don't think you're implying that there are no Iranians in Iran today, right? I am certain that by far the majority of Iran is Iranian (mainly Persian as well as Parthian refugees from Iraq and Kurdish ones from Kurdistan). I'm guessing you mean that many Iranians fled out of Iran as well as many more remaining behind in Iran. The Baluchis might be a case in point. I'm pasting Elst's statement again:<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->the Baluchis have immigrated into this area from Western Iran during the early Muslim period. Before that, in most of the areas where Pashtu and Baluchi are now spoken, the language was Indo-Aryan Prakrit. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Were the Baluchis still Zoroastrian when they came to Afghanistan, only to be converted when Afghanistan was finally and completely conquered? Or had their settlement in Afghanistan nothing to do with fleeing from Islam?
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Iran is indeed derived from Airyana vaejo not Aila. There is no doubt about this.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->I did think that Airyanam Vaejo referred to Noble land. I have no idea about etymology.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Many Indo-Iranian tribes called themselves Aryan, but specifically declared their rivals non-Aryan.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Koenraad Elst states that they used the word Airya like Arya was used by the Pauravas. So their rivals like the Shakas were definitely not designated as such (Airya/Arya). The Saxons, whether of Germany or England, can stop all references to themselves as Aryan.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The claim that Sassanians persecuted others is particularly exaggerated by the Western Christian authors.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->I knew it! Wikipedia is where I first came across the story of the "persecuting Sassanians". But I didn't completely believe it. Then I started to more than just suspect it when an Armenian Christian site was listing all the persecutions it had suffered at the hands of Zoroastrianism. I wondered why they were accusing Zoroastrianism in general when it was obvious they were referring to the allegations against the Sassianian rulers. Then it struck me (I was later proven right): Zoroastrianism is making somewhat of a comeback in Armenia!
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->rising Mithraism which was pretty similar to Mazdaism but concentrated on Mithra rather than Mazda (varuNa).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Fascinating.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->After Constantine's conversion the Christian exclusivism spread to Iranian territories. Constantine advised the Iranian emperor Shapur II to convert to the Yesu mata. Of course the Iranians did not bother. That initiated the holy war of the Christians. About 80 years later Christians started desecrating Iranian fire temples. This resulted in swift retaliation as the Christians were punished by the Iranian for their hostile attacks in Iranian territory. They fled west into the Roman territory and sought aid from the Christian roman emperor. In the christian Roman empire Iranian and other pagan shrines like those of the Germans were descrated, though Iran itself recognized minority rights of Christians and provided them protection to worship.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Sometimes, I wish India would behave a bit more like Persia in the face of Christian aggression. Replace Constantine's empire with any remnant Christian missionary factions in Europe and the western Roman empire with missionary America. India should say no to missionaries: no more overt or covert evangelisation.
However, Persia was too kind in "recognising the minority rights of Christians" within the Zoroastrian heartland. If Islam hadn't come along to change history into the misery we know, doubtless Christianity in Persia would have started showing serious fangs.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->There has been large scale displacement of the original Iranian stock in Iran by the Moslems<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->I don't think you're implying that there are no Iranians in Iran today, right? I am certain that by far the majority of Iran is Iranian (mainly Persian as well as Parthian refugees from Iraq and Kurdish ones from Kurdistan). I'm guessing you mean that many Iranians fled out of Iran as well as many more remaining behind in Iran. The Baluchis might be a case in point. I'm pasting Elst's statement again:<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->the Baluchis have immigrated into this area from Western Iran during the early Muslim period. Before that, in most of the areas where Pashtu and Baluchi are now spoken, the language was Indo-Aryan Prakrit. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Were the Baluchis still Zoroastrian when they came to Afghanistan, only to be converted when Afghanistan was finally and completely conquered? Or had their settlement in Afghanistan nothing to do with fleeing from Islam?