01-12-2006, 11:32 PM
Ashok Kumar,
Thanks for the kind welcome.
About Airyanam Vaejo, Elst and a few others have substantial reason to believe that it is not Azerbaijan but located in Northern India. I once again refer to his article 4.6.6. Iranian Urheimat memory :<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The Iranians are fairly clear about their history of immigration from Hapta-Hendu and Airyanam Vaejo, two of sixteen Iranian lands mentioned in the Zoroastrian scripture Vendidad.
...
The Iranian homelands Airyanam Vaejo, described as too cold in its 10-months-long winter, and Hapta-Hendu, described as rendered too hot for men (i.e. the Iranians) by the wicked Angra-Mainyu, are Kashmir and Sapta-Saindhavah (Panjab-Haryana) respectively.54<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->I'm inclined to think this is likelier than Azerbaijan. For one thing, Azerbaijan is located Northwest of Iran. Secondly, Zoroaster (whose work is the Avesta which mentions Airyanam Vaejo) was born in Afghanistan which is east of Iran. To get from Afghanistan to Azerbaijan before landing in Iran, the Iranians would have had to do some circular travel: go from Afghanistan, through Turkmenistan (a Finno-Ugric country with mostly non-Indo-Europeans, the little Iranian presence there is from the Islamic times), across the Caspian Sea, into Azerbaijan and from there into northern Iran.
Of course, with the AIT scenario (taking Anatolia which is modern-day Turkey as the fabled "PIE homeland") entry of Iranians into Azerbaijan would be through Armenia. Subsequently they'd have moved south into Iran and then East into Afghanistan and India. Although no proponent of AIT that I've read of has suggested Iran was populated before Afghanistan, so another roundabout travel is required with Anatolia as the Urheimat.
Another problem of Iran being populated by the IEs prior to India would be that very same Avesta's mention of Hapta Hendu as one of the former lands where Iranians lived. There's also the mention of Angra-Manyu, the Angry Mind, which Talageri and Elst have connected with their enemies, the Vedic seers Angiras - see footnote 54 in the above link to Elst's article.
I will defer to your opinion on the name of Iran being derived from Aila. When it comes to Airyanam Vaejo though, the Northwestern parts of India still seem the most reasonable.
Mitradena,
The starting "I" in Iran is pronounced like "ee" in "bee" by Americans and western people. However, (some) Iranians used to pronounce it as the English self-referential word "I". So I-ran is a valid pronunciation. In which case spelling it as Airan would be phonetically correct, English spelling sometimes being arbitrary. This does not exclude the possibility of the name having been derived from Aila as Ashok Kumar indicated. We need to know how they wrote it in their script in older times (not how it's recently written). Their script is very likely to be more phonetically accurate than English, thankfully.
The only way we can know for sure is to find contemporary references by non-Persian people to Iran's former country name. India was known to be called Aryadesha and Bharatvarsha by Chinese travellers who have recorded this. Our own old records also state we called our land Aryavarta. Do old Iranian records state the meaning of Airyanam? And did others outside Iran know it by that name? Or did Persia go by a different name after the Iranians left Airyanam Vaejo? It seems unlikely that Iranians would have gone around naming all Iranian lands by the same "Airyana", because there were so many countries they settled in.
I know Pars was their metropolis, but I don't know what their country was called. Was the countryname unimportant, as it was in the case of Rome? Did Persia have a different name before the founding of Pars? If so what do their ancient records state it to have been?
I just have lots of questions, few answers. Anyone know or have suggestions?
Thanks for the kind welcome.
About Airyanam Vaejo, Elst and a few others have substantial reason to believe that it is not Azerbaijan but located in Northern India. I once again refer to his article 4.6.6. Iranian Urheimat memory :<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The Iranians are fairly clear about their history of immigration from Hapta-Hendu and Airyanam Vaejo, two of sixteen Iranian lands mentioned in the Zoroastrian scripture Vendidad.
...
The Iranian homelands Airyanam Vaejo, described as too cold in its 10-months-long winter, and Hapta-Hendu, described as rendered too hot for men (i.e. the Iranians) by the wicked Angra-Mainyu, are Kashmir and Sapta-Saindhavah (Panjab-Haryana) respectively.54<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->I'm inclined to think this is likelier than Azerbaijan. For one thing, Azerbaijan is located Northwest of Iran. Secondly, Zoroaster (whose work is the Avesta which mentions Airyanam Vaejo) was born in Afghanistan which is east of Iran. To get from Afghanistan to Azerbaijan before landing in Iran, the Iranians would have had to do some circular travel: go from Afghanistan, through Turkmenistan (a Finno-Ugric country with mostly non-Indo-Europeans, the little Iranian presence there is from the Islamic times), across the Caspian Sea, into Azerbaijan and from there into northern Iran.
Of course, with the AIT scenario (taking Anatolia which is modern-day Turkey as the fabled "PIE homeland") entry of Iranians into Azerbaijan would be through Armenia. Subsequently they'd have moved south into Iran and then East into Afghanistan and India. Although no proponent of AIT that I've read of has suggested Iran was populated before Afghanistan, so another roundabout travel is required with Anatolia as the Urheimat.
Another problem of Iran being populated by the IEs prior to India would be that very same Avesta's mention of Hapta Hendu as one of the former lands where Iranians lived. There's also the mention of Angra-Manyu, the Angry Mind, which Talageri and Elst have connected with their enemies, the Vedic seers Angiras - see footnote 54 in the above link to Elst's article.
I will defer to your opinion on the name of Iran being derived from Aila. When it comes to Airyanam Vaejo though, the Northwestern parts of India still seem the most reasonable.
Mitradena,
The starting "I" in Iran is pronounced like "ee" in "bee" by Americans and western people. However, (some) Iranians used to pronounce it as the English self-referential word "I". So I-ran is a valid pronunciation. In which case spelling it as Airan would be phonetically correct, English spelling sometimes being arbitrary. This does not exclude the possibility of the name having been derived from Aila as Ashok Kumar indicated. We need to know how they wrote it in their script in older times (not how it's recently written). Their script is very likely to be more phonetically accurate than English, thankfully.
The only way we can know for sure is to find contemporary references by non-Persian people to Iran's former country name. India was known to be called Aryadesha and Bharatvarsha by Chinese travellers who have recorded this. Our own old records also state we called our land Aryavarta. Do old Iranian records state the meaning of Airyanam? And did others outside Iran know it by that name? Or did Persia go by a different name after the Iranians left Airyanam Vaejo? It seems unlikely that Iranians would have gone around naming all Iranian lands by the same "Airyana", because there were so many countries they settled in.
I know Pars was their metropolis, but I don't know what their country was called. Was the countryname unimportant, as it was in the case of Rome? Did Persia have a different name before the founding of Pars? If so what do their ancient records state it to have been?
I just have lots of questions, few answers. Anyone know or have suggestions?