01-12-2006, 06:27 PM
Dhu,
thanks for your explanations, including Haplogroup 3=M17=R1a. The Neolithic farmers invasion into Europe from the Middle-East is very intriguing.
I had earlier on read the 2003 Kivisild et al paper you referred to, but had found it harder to digest than their previous ones. Thanks for the excerpt, the first time I read that (along with its containing paragraphs) I thought they were stating it as <i>another</i> way to read the data which had previously been used to draw the opposite conclusion. But going back over that page of Kivisild's 2003 paper, I realise they are actually serious in suggesting it. They also suggest further research into the Y chromosomal material.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->(annoyed parties)... realize that Renfrew's hypothesis of an early neolithic "IE" expansion makes more sense ⦠thus the preponderance of recent mischievous studies.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Frankly, I find it disturbing that there are those walking under the cloak of science who are subverting research. Which reminds me. I'm going to test your patience by asking more questions (feel free to ignore them). They are located in <b>post#170 </b>of Aryan Invasion/migration Theories & Debates.
On another topic previously mentioned:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->There are relationships within brahmins that transcend regional differences (see below). Many markers are shared by Iyer, Iyengar, Konkanasta Brahmin and Bengal Brahmin. So a core brahmin group spreading out is a possibility. Interestingly Iyer and Kbr form a close cluster despite the former being typically dark and the later fair. UP brahmins seem to have had a major component from the West most likely as Shakadvipi brahmins.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->That's not surprising, considering that Indian tradition states that the East and the South invited Brahmin families from the Northern parts several thousands of years ago. The connection between Iyer/Iyengar and Konkanasta can be explained. They might have arrived from the same North-western spot (early Paurava states?). The Konkanasta were much later arrivals into their current region (history cites displacement due to Islam as the cause), so they aren't yet adapted to the climate down where they are now. The older Southern brahmins have been there for a long time and generally tend to look indistinguishable from other South Indians (to me).
thanks for your explanations, including Haplogroup 3=M17=R1a. The Neolithic farmers invasion into Europe from the Middle-East is very intriguing.
I had earlier on read the 2003 Kivisild et al paper you referred to, but had found it harder to digest than their previous ones. Thanks for the excerpt, the first time I read that (along with its containing paragraphs) I thought they were stating it as <i>another</i> way to read the data which had previously been used to draw the opposite conclusion. But going back over that page of Kivisild's 2003 paper, I realise they are actually serious in suggesting it. They also suggest further research into the Y chromosomal material.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->(annoyed parties)... realize that Renfrew's hypothesis of an early neolithic "IE" expansion makes more sense ⦠thus the preponderance of recent mischievous studies.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Frankly, I find it disturbing that there are those walking under the cloak of science who are subverting research. Which reminds me. I'm going to test your patience by asking more questions (feel free to ignore them). They are located in <b>post#170 </b>of Aryan Invasion/migration Theories & Debates.
On another topic previously mentioned:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->There are relationships within brahmins that transcend regional differences (see below). Many markers are shared by Iyer, Iyengar, Konkanasta Brahmin and Bengal Brahmin. So a core brahmin group spreading out is a possibility. Interestingly Iyer and Kbr form a close cluster despite the former being typically dark and the later fair. UP brahmins seem to have had a major component from the West most likely as Shakadvipi brahmins.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->That's not surprising, considering that Indian tradition states that the East and the South invited Brahmin families from the Northern parts several thousands of years ago. The connection between Iyer/Iyengar and Konkanasta can be explained. They might have arrived from the same North-western spot (early Paurava states?). The Konkanasta were much later arrivals into their current region (history cites displacement due to Islam as the cause), so they aren't yet adapted to the climate down where they are now. The older Southern brahmins have been there for a long time and generally tend to look indistinguishable from other South Indians (to me).