12-14-2005, 06:49 AM
Ben Ami,
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->yes ritual nude bathing was common amongst barbarians
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure if that's a typo. I mean, I bathe everyday as if it's a ritual, I'm sure you and all Indians do too <!--emo&
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> like most cultures. And, like most people, it's easiest in the nude. If washing oneself in Indian rivers, one can wear simple loose clothes too.
Besides, bathing is better than the thought of those smelly colonials who didn't bathe at all and had to learn it from us colonised savages. So perhaps it's a sign that the 'barbarians' of Europe were more civilised than the colonials they later became (although that isn't hard to achieve).
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->the camel jockey arabs you mean??
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Come on. Where's the good in arrogance? We sound like the British colonials by separating people into civilised and savage based not on mindset but on accomplishment. It's alien to us.
Pre-islamic Arabians were good, they had a lot in common with us especially when it came to accepting people of other religions - in spite of them being regularly attacked for conversion by Christians and even by some radical Jewish communities. I read this in Koenraad Elst's "De Islam voor ongelovigen" ("Islam for the Unbelievers"). If you or anyone else wants me to translate parts of it, I will. It's got some really interesting bits in there.
Like Ali Sina and Koenraad Elst say, one can dislike the ideology, but there's no reason for us to dislike the people under its spell. Ali Sina goes one further and refers to Muslims as patients afflicted by the religion of Islam, who others must help by curing them of the disease. Sounds quite acceptable to me. It's good to have compassion for them even while we avoid being hurt by their ideology which often drives them to violence. After all, had fate been less kind to our ancestors we might also have ended up being Muslim. Worrying thought.
I have some questions for you, if they aren't too personal.
What does your name mean? Is it Indian, is it Hindu? I don't mean the question to be offensive, I am merely curious - remember that it's none of my business so you don't need to answer at all. I think that Ben is something like 'daughter of' in Gujarati (similar to Bent in Arabic with the same meaning, while Bin in Arabic and Ben in Hebrew stand for 'son of').
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->anyway even the celts, ... , didnt have a script.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is this known for a fact? I thought they were still speculating on the possibility of them having had a script. Oh, well. The Celts are still more civilised than those who murdered the millions of Native Americans over the entire continent and ended so many world cultures.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->yes ritual nude bathing was common amongst barbarians
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure if that's a typo. I mean, I bathe everyday as if it's a ritual, I'm sure you and all Indians do too <!--emo&
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> like most cultures. And, like most people, it's easiest in the nude. If washing oneself in Indian rivers, one can wear simple loose clothes too. Besides, bathing is better than the thought of those smelly colonials who didn't bathe at all and had to learn it from us colonised savages. So perhaps it's a sign that the 'barbarians' of Europe were more civilised than the colonials they later became (although that isn't hard to achieve).
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->the camel jockey arabs you mean??
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Come on. Where's the good in arrogance? We sound like the British colonials by separating people into civilised and savage based not on mindset but on accomplishment. It's alien to us.
Pre-islamic Arabians were good, they had a lot in common with us especially when it came to accepting people of other religions - in spite of them being regularly attacked for conversion by Christians and even by some radical Jewish communities. I read this in Koenraad Elst's "De Islam voor ongelovigen" ("Islam for the Unbelievers"). If you or anyone else wants me to translate parts of it, I will. It's got some really interesting bits in there.
Like Ali Sina and Koenraad Elst say, one can dislike the ideology, but there's no reason for us to dislike the people under its spell. Ali Sina goes one further and refers to Muslims as patients afflicted by the religion of Islam, who others must help by curing them of the disease. Sounds quite acceptable to me. It's good to have compassion for them even while we avoid being hurt by their ideology which often drives them to violence. After all, had fate been less kind to our ancestors we might also have ended up being Muslim. Worrying thought.
I have some questions for you, if they aren't too personal.
What does your name mean? Is it Indian, is it Hindu? I don't mean the question to be offensive, I am merely curious - remember that it's none of my business so you don't need to answer at all. I think that Ben is something like 'daughter of' in Gujarati (similar to Bent in Arabic with the same meaning, while Bin in Arabic and Ben in Hebrew stand for 'son of').
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->anyway even the celts, ... , didnt have a script.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is this known for a fact? I thought they were still speculating on the possibility of them having had a script. Oh, well. The Celts are still more civilised than those who murdered the millions of Native Americans over the entire continent and ended so many world cultures.