11-22-2005, 10:24 PM
[quote=dhu,Nov 11 2005, 12:31 PM]
Dhu
From what I am reading, I do not think we are at cross purposes.
1) Kushans:
You are correct, that this is a cultural phenomenon. I lean towards the older Vedic cultural influences.
The term Kushan is inappropriate nomenclature. The term is actually that of the Clan Kshvan or Kisan, which rose to prominence, at this time, and this was the name with which their empire /expansion got be known as.
There is some evidence of their Westward expansion too- towards Bulgaria
The Kasvan clan is still found among the Jats of Rajasthan.
Linking Kuch or Kashi to the origin of the name Kushan, as you have rightly pointed out is a bit fanciful, and not to be accepted, unless some better evidence is supplied.
We can however note that the â Kushanâ Empire spread from Central Asia, Bactria, Karnataka, to Orissa. Quite a large empire by nay standards
Re the expansion further to the East to Kampuchea, it may not be out of order to take into account the evidence that points to Kushan/ Gandhara/ Kamboja links to Kampuchea.
Xanthii/ Iatti/ etc are late terms picked up by Cunningham etc. The positive thing is that they at least noticed it. But I will shift this part of the discussion to the Jat history thread.
2) Re Buddha Sakyamuni.
I am quite open re the dates of Gautam Buddha. The work of Sethna among others points to a great discrepancy between the conventional dates of Buddha, an Indian Historians tend to point to.
Omanand Saraswati, of the Arya Samaj Gurukul Jhajjar, for example also wrote a number of books on Indology, before Sethna et al, and he too among many others did not accept the Western Indologists dating.
Was there a connection between the Sakyamuni or the Sakas- there may very well be. It is not issue worth being bogged down into a â There never was â standâ.
A good book is Republics in Ancient India - R P Sharma, Leiden 1955 .
It s based on the Rig Ved evidence..
There is plenty of evidence pointing to a Northwest connection of the Liccvhavis.
.
3)' Huing Nu' 'displacement; of Jats (Juts)(Chinese Yueh Chi)
Who were these People?
This is all from a Chinese work the Ho Han Shu; a manuscript of circa 100 BCE .I would take it with a pinch of salt.
I have discussed this with committed â Silk Roadâ types, to whom this thing is the Holy gospel and the Holy Grail combined in one.
Migrations/ wars occurred all the time.
The real issue is that one cannot set up a well organized Empire â from Central Asia to Orissa, unless one is part of an advanced society, - agriculture, literature, intellectual , economic surplus.
Earlier you had asked about the Jat Rig Ved connection. I will post that on the Jat history thread
Ravi
Dhu
From what I am reading, I do not think we are at cross purposes.
1) Kushans:
You are correct, that this is a cultural phenomenon. I lean towards the older Vedic cultural influences.
The term Kushan is inappropriate nomenclature. The term is actually that of the Clan Kshvan or Kisan, which rose to prominence, at this time, and this was the name with which their empire /expansion got be known as.
There is some evidence of their Westward expansion too- towards Bulgaria
The Kasvan clan is still found among the Jats of Rajasthan.
Linking Kuch or Kashi to the origin of the name Kushan, as you have rightly pointed out is a bit fanciful, and not to be accepted, unless some better evidence is supplied.
We can however note that the â Kushanâ Empire spread from Central Asia, Bactria, Karnataka, to Orissa. Quite a large empire by nay standards
Re the expansion further to the East to Kampuchea, it may not be out of order to take into account the evidence that points to Kushan/ Gandhara/ Kamboja links to Kampuchea.
Xanthii/ Iatti/ etc are late terms picked up by Cunningham etc. The positive thing is that they at least noticed it. But I will shift this part of the discussion to the Jat history thread.
2) Re Buddha Sakyamuni.
I am quite open re the dates of Gautam Buddha. The work of Sethna among others points to a great discrepancy between the conventional dates of Buddha, an Indian Historians tend to point to.
Omanand Saraswati, of the Arya Samaj Gurukul Jhajjar, for example also wrote a number of books on Indology, before Sethna et al, and he too among many others did not accept the Western Indologists dating.
Was there a connection between the Sakyamuni or the Sakas- there may very well be. It is not issue worth being bogged down into a â There never was â standâ.
A good book is Republics in Ancient India - R P Sharma, Leiden 1955 .
It s based on the Rig Ved evidence..
There is plenty of evidence pointing to a Northwest connection of the Liccvhavis.
.
3)' Huing Nu' 'displacement; of Jats (Juts)(Chinese Yueh Chi)
Who were these People?
This is all from a Chinese work the Ho Han Shu; a manuscript of circa 100 BCE .I would take it with a pinch of salt.
I have discussed this with committed â Silk Roadâ types, to whom this thing is the Holy gospel and the Holy Grail combined in one.
Migrations/ wars occurred all the time.
The real issue is that one cannot set up a well organized Empire â from Central Asia to Orissa, unless one is part of an advanced society, - agriculture, literature, intellectual , economic surplus.
Earlier you had asked about the Jat Rig Ved connection. I will post that on the Jat history thread
Ravi