05-26-2005, 12:55 PM
Belief is indeed stronger than ideas. For ideas evolve, whereas a belief by its very definition is rigid. However, the illusion of strength that a rigid belief gives will always be challenged by good ideas.
In my understanding, the Vaishnavism as defended by Carl is an belief similar to Christianity or Islam. In that it believes that the âindividual soulâ is somehow separate from the âuniversal soulâ. We will end up arguing terminology and constructs ad infinitum in this pursuit.
It is illogical to argue with someone who has a belief, even if it is consistent to challenge the belief itself. The essence of Advaita (if you want to call it that!) is an idea. Different acharyas have given us different ways to think about the same problem, they have given us ideas to ponder on.
If Linus (from the popular comic strip Charlie Brown) wants to believe in the Great Pumpkin, who brings toys and gifts to children, at a cabbage patch, every Halloween, he is welcome to believe so. Millions believe in other such artificial beliefs. But please excuse the rest of us, including Mr. Schultz, if we remain skeptical regarding this belief.
Thus in my mind the labels assigned to me, a Hindu, has no meaning spiritually. As I ponder ideas, the way the vedantis would have wanted us to, but I have no rigid beliefs. If your motivation is political, social, etc., then yes, there is certainly reason to have discourse on who is a "Hindu"? But I dare say I want open that can of worms.
<b>Let me leave this subject with a few of my favorite verses:</b>
naham manye suvedeti no na vedeti veda ca
yon as tad veda tad veda no na vedeti veda ca
<i><b>I do not think that I know it well; nor do I think that I do not know it.
He, who among us knows it, knows it and he too, does not know that he does not know.</b></i>
Yasyamatam tasya matam maam yasya na veda sah
Avijnatam vijanatam vijnatam avijanatam
<i><b>To whomsoever it is not known, to him it is known: To whomsoever it is known, he does not know.
It is not understood by those who understand it; It is understood by those who do not understand it.</b></i>
<b>I for one sure don't understand it</b>
In my understanding, the Vaishnavism as defended by Carl is an belief similar to Christianity or Islam. In that it believes that the âindividual soulâ is somehow separate from the âuniversal soulâ. We will end up arguing terminology and constructs ad infinitum in this pursuit.
It is illogical to argue with someone who has a belief, even if it is consistent to challenge the belief itself. The essence of Advaita (if you want to call it that!) is an idea. Different acharyas have given us different ways to think about the same problem, they have given us ideas to ponder on.
If Linus (from the popular comic strip Charlie Brown) wants to believe in the Great Pumpkin, who brings toys and gifts to children, at a cabbage patch, every Halloween, he is welcome to believe so. Millions believe in other such artificial beliefs. But please excuse the rest of us, including Mr. Schultz, if we remain skeptical regarding this belief.
Thus in my mind the labels assigned to me, a Hindu, has no meaning spiritually. As I ponder ideas, the way the vedantis would have wanted us to, but I have no rigid beliefs. If your motivation is political, social, etc., then yes, there is certainly reason to have discourse on who is a "Hindu"? But I dare say I want open that can of worms.
<b>Let me leave this subject with a few of my favorite verses:</b>
naham manye suvedeti no na vedeti veda ca
yon as tad veda tad veda no na vedeti veda ca
<i><b>I do not think that I know it well; nor do I think that I do not know it.
He, who among us knows it, knows it and he too, does not know that he does not know.</b></i>
Yasyamatam tasya matam maam yasya na veda sah
Avijnatam vijanatam vijnatam avijanatam
<i><b>To whomsoever it is not known, to him it is known: To whomsoever it is known, he does not know.
It is not understood by those who understand it; It is understood by those who do not understand it.</b></i>
<b>I for one sure don't understand it</b>