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Why Was There No Tranfer Of Population? - acharya - 11-21-2003

How one man can change the course of history



BULBUL SHAH

A dervish who changed the course of history



By: Hakim Imtiyaz Hussain



Kashmir has got a rich heritage and its history is undoubtedly

exciting. A huge collection of historical material-ancient and

contemporary about Kashmir has been made available both by the

foreign as well as Kashmiri historians but there are still certain

grey areas which need further research as the correct and actual

facts either lay buried under the debris of such material or have

been ignorantly or intentionally distorted.

Notwithstanding the numerous histories on Kashmir.there is scant

material on the early history of Islam in Kashmir. When did the

Muslims first enter Kashmir is not known but the historians are of

the view that Muslim missionaries and preachers began to enter the

valley to propagate and teach the tenets of Islam from eighth century.

Kalhana’s certain accounts point out to the presence of Muslims in

the valley during the period of Raja Bappiyaka (754-761AD) and Raja

Harsh (1089-1101 A.D).

According to Hassan (1) (Endnotes), a noted historian, Sultan Mahmud

of Ghazni (998-1030 AD) came to Kashmir, stayed for 31 days and

converted large number of people to Islam. He has further stated that

Mahmud entered the temple situated at Sulaiman Hill (Srinagar) and

offered zuhar (midday) prayers there. This account is, however, not

authenticated by other historians (2), who assert that Mahmud invaded

Kashmir twice but failed to conquer it due to heavy snow fall.

Known Venetian traveller Marco Polo too reports (3) about presence of

Muslims in Kashmir in the year 1277 AD.

These historical accounts establish the presence of Muslims in

Kashmir during Hindu period but due to the paucity of historical

material it is difficult to say when ‘this Islamising influence first

made itself felt in the country’. Sufi (4) says that ‘whatever

evidence is available leads us, however, to attribute the spread of

Islam in the Valley, on the whole, to a long continued missionary

movement inaugurated and carried out mainly by faqirs or friars or

darvishes and the ‘ulama’ or theologians.’

History is silent on the activities of early missionaries and the

first missionary, of whom we have any firm historical record, is Syed

Bulbul Shah who succeeded in converting Rinchen Shah, a Buddhist

ruler of Kashmir to Islam.

Rinchen Shah or Rinchu (full name Lha-chen-rgyal-bu-rin-chen) was son

of a Ladakhi ruler Lhachen (1290 – 1320 AD). He came to Kashmir in

1320 AD along with a good number of his followers from Ladakh after

the enemies killed his father there. In Kashmir he came in contact

with Ramachandra – the commander-in-chief of Suhadeva, ruler of

Kashmir(1300-1319/20 AD). Ramachandra gave the village of Gagnahgir,

pargana Lar as a jagir to him. During his stay in Kashmir an

important political event took place, which gave a new turn to both

the history of Kashmir as well as the fate of Rinchen Shah. Zulkadar

Khan or Zulju (Zilchu) a Tatar and grand son of Halaku invaded

Kashmir. He came along with 70,000 Turks from Turkistan and entered

Kashmir from the Baramulla road. The ruler of Kashmir, not being able

to oppose and fight escaped to Kishtwar providing a cake walk victory

for Zulju, who occupied Kashmir, started a reign of tyranny and

oppression and killed several thousand people. Zulju stayed in

Kashmir for eight months and left the valley during winter through

the passes from the south. He and his army and Kashmiri captives

however perished due to heavy snowfall in Pargana Divahsar.

Kashmir was now without a ruler and every one, with some influence

tried to snatch the power. Rinchen Shah took advantage of this

situation and with the help of his people established his authority.

Every one yielded to his supremacy, the situation went in his favour

and he became the ruler of Kashmir in 1320 AD.

When Buddhist Rinchen Shah assumed power, there were a few number of

Muslims in the valley but most of them were unaware of the tenets of

Islam. The majority constituted Buddhist and Hindus. Hassan also

reports of the presence of Parses in the valley. But over all

position was very disturbing. Kashmir was a country of drunkards,

gamblers and profligate women (5). Perhaps due to these facts Rinchen

became dissatisfied with the faith he followed. He, on getting power

turned his attention towards religious matters.He made enquiries from

learned Hindus and Buddhist priests and held discussions with them.

It is reported by Jonaraja (6) that Hindus did not accept him into

the ‘Shivite’ faith as he happened to be a ‘Bhutta’ (Buddhist) by

birth but this argument is not convincing. At that juncture of the

history any body would have liked the entry of the king to his faith.

According to Mohibul Hassan the reason why Rinchen did not embrace

Shivaism was that it could not satisfy his spiritual cravings’ (7).

While the enquiries of Rinchen Shah were on he came in contact with a

Muslim saint namely ‘Bulbul Shah’, a learned Syed from Iran. On

enquiry the Syed explained to the king the tenets of Islam and

principles of Islamic jurisprudence, which impressed the king. He

embraced Islam and adopted Sadr-ud-Din as his new Muslim name.

According to the anonymous author of Baharistan-i-Shahi-a medieval

Persian text on the history of Kashmir, when Rinchen started making

enquiries to adopt the right path,he one day decided that he would

embrace the religion of the first man he would meet in the street

after coming out of his house the next morning. Next morning he came

out of his palace and saw a dervish offering namaz (the Muslim way of

praying), with full devotion. He went towards him and enquired about

his name and faith.The dervish told him that his name was Bulbul

Qalandar and his religion was Islam. He then mentioned to him some of

the miracles performed by the Prophet and the virtues and superior

qualities of ‘Ali, the Imam.‘His (Rinchan’s) heart had previously

been blackened by the beliefs of a false community.Now he subjected

himself to the teachings of the religion of Mustafa (Prophet),and the

right principles of the truthful path of Murtaza (Ali),and embraced

Islamic religion with sincerity and comviction.He gave up once for

all the false and corrupt religions’. (8)

Rinchen Shah thus became the first Muslim ruler of Kashmir.Some

historians believe that Rinchen’s conversion to Islam was promoted by

political reasons. Whatever was the cause, almost all the writers on

Kashmir believe that there was no compulsion in his conversion to

Islam and that Muslim saint Bulbul Shah played a vital role in

it.Following the conversion of Rinchen Shah several other leading

Kashmiris also embraced Islam.Many ‘low’ castes and Buddhists

too,began to embrace the new faith,seeing in it a source of

liberation from the shackles of the Brahminical system.It is said

that, in all, Hazrat Bulbul Shah succeeded in making some ten

thousand converts to Islam through means of peaceful missionary

effort,although this figure seems considerably exaggerated. (9)

Bulbul Shah was thus instrumental in the conversion of Rinchen Shah

and is considered to be the first missionary of Islam in Kashmir,who

succeeded in introducing Islam at the state level.Writers on Kashmir

history have not however given any detailed account of Bulbul Shah

and his personality is shrouded in myth and legend.The historians

even donot agree on his name and have given their own views about his

faith and mission.

Bulbul Shah was descendant of Imam Musa al- Kazim (A), seventh Imam

and thus a ‘Syed’ (10). Some historians (11) assert that he was

follower of Shia faith.

Bulbul Shah’s name was Syed Sharaf-ud-Din. There is however

difference among the historians over his actual name. Some say that

his actual name was Sayyid Abdur Rahman (12) while others call him

Bilal or Baba Bulbul Qalander or Baba Bulbul (13). According to one

writer,such a lover of the tradition of the Prophet (ashiq-i-sunnat-i-

Rasul) was he that he was given the title of Bilal,after a favourite

companion of the Prophet Muhammad (S), which later corrupted

as ‘Bulbul’. As regards his place of birth,the historians give

different views.According to some he was from Turkistan,while

according to some others he was from Iran or Bagdad.

The genelogical table of his family published by Munshi Nawalkisore

Press, Lucknow in 1925 AD, shows that his name was Syed Sharaf ud Din

and title Bulbul Shah.In the valley of Kashmir he is popularly

remembered as Bulbul Shah.

His genealogy (14) has been described as under:

Sharaf-ud-Din (Bulbul Shah) b. Sheikh Amin-ud-Din Jabriel b. Shaikh

Salah b. Qutb-ud-Din b. Salah-ud-Din b. Muhammad Al Hafiz b. Awaiz ul

Khawais b. Feroz Shah Zarien Kalah b. Muhammad b.Ashraf Shah b.

Muhammad b. Hassan b. Muhammad b. Ibrahim b. Jaffar b. Muhammad b.

Ismail b. Muhammad b. Ahmad Arabi b. Abu Muhammad Al Qasim b. Abial

Qasim Hamza b.Imam Musa Al- Kazim (A) b. Imam Jafar-al Sadiq (A) b.

Imam Muhammad -al Baqir (A) b. Imam Ali Zainul Abdin (A) b. Imam

Hussain (A) grandson of holy Prophet (S).

Bulbul Shah’s father Shaikh Amin-ud-Din Jabriel, had seven sons;

Mansoor Aba Ali,Ismail Saif-ud-Din,Rashid Salah-ud-Din,Yousf

FakruhDin, Mohd Alias Shams-ud-Din,Sharaf-ud-Din Bulbul Shah and

Shaikh Safi-ud-Din Ardabeli. (15)

Bulbul Shah was thus the brother of renowned Sufi saint of Iran

Shaikh Safi- ud- Din ( 650 / 1252 – 735 / 1334 ), the founder of the

Safavid order, which went on to produce the Safavid dynasty in Iran.

(...To be concluded)



References:

1.Tarikh-i-Hassan, II, 115.

2. See Nazim, Sultan Mahmud of Ghazna, 105; see also Mohibbul Hasan,

Kashmir under the Sultans, 29

3. The Travels of Marco Polo,ed.Manuel Komroff, 1939, 64.

4. Sufi, Kashir, I, 81.

5. See Lawrence, The Valley of Kashmir, 189 and Dr. Steins remarks

vide his Introduction to the Kalhana’s Rajatarangini,130-132.

6. Jonaraja,The Rajatarangini of Jonaraja, 71.

7. Kashmir under the Sultans, footnote 5 at pages 39-40

8. Baharistan-i-Shahi, eng.tr.by Pandita, 21-22.

9. Sikand, Hazrat Bulbul Shah: The first Muslim Missionary in

Kashmir, 1: See Rafiqui, Sufism in Kashmir, 27.

10. According to Sufi (Kashir, I, 82) and Bamzi (History of Kashmir,

482) he was a Mosavi Sayyid.

11. Pandit K.N on the basis of Baharistan-i-Shahi is of the view

that ‘Rinchen was converted by Bulbul Qalandar to Shia faith’.

(Baharistan- i - Shahi, eng.tr foot note 35,Chapter II,P.27).

12. Sufi, Kashir, I, 82

13. Baharistan-i-Shahi, 260, Malik Haider Chadura, Tarikh-i-Kashmir,

50.

14. Pedigree table of Alahazrat Syed Safi Ali Shah Safvi published by

Munshi Nawalkisore Press,Lucknow at the desire of Hazrat Zulfikar Ali

Shah Safvi in 1925 A.D.

15. Dr.Syed Fazal Ali Shah Musavi Safvi, Al-Shajratul Taiba, 5. See

also Sayyid Jamal Turaabi Tabatabai, Aasar Bastani Azerbaijaan, II,

211.



The author is Principal Sessions Judge, Kashmir, he can be

reached at: hussainimtiyaz2002@y...

Why Was There No Tranfer Of Population? - G.Subramaniam - 11-22-2003

If you read kashmiri pandit websites they have a much different picture of this monster

Why Was There No Tranfer Of Population? - G.Subramaniam - 11-22-2003

Pakistan is not our last demand

-----------------------

From Hamid Dalwai's book, he said muslim leaders planned more pakistans

Their game plan was to create muslim majority pockets within residual India

and aid pakistani terrorism

Hamid Dalwai also warned about muslim demographic warfare and BD illegals

Hamid Dalwai's book came out in 1968



Thanks to hindu foolishness in family planning and greedy hindu vote bankers

a series of mini-pakistans have been formed within residual India



Apart from kashmir, the writ of the Indian state does not run in most muslim ghettos. These muslim ghettos are defacto Darul Islam

Most of these ghettos are formed after 1951, by low level muslim rioting

For example in the recent Gujurat riots, a notorious zone was Juhupura

This locality is 100% muslim now. As late as 1985, it was 70% hindu

Muslim mafia slowly terrorised the hindus into fleeing

Same has happened to a depth of 10 miles from the Bangladesh border

Same has happened for a 50 mile sea coast near Marad, Kerala



Lt.Col Kuldip Singh Ludhra, has revealed ISI operation Sierra Tango

The goal is

1. To push in more muslims into India, so that the host society gets stressed and riot prone as muslim numbers climb

2. To settle Indian muslims in strategic zones

Both the Kolkata and Mumbai port areas are heavily muslim dominated and

ISI choke points

3. To settle Indian muslims near defence areas. Since any muslim area has many butcher shops, these attract crows etc. Apparently these crows have made

the Hindon airbase near Delhi unusable



These local Darul-Islams are the seeds of the next pakistans

There is an islamic corridor all the way from Pakistan to BD

Ajmer-Delhi-Moradabad-Gorakhpur-North bihar-North WB-Assam

Close to 33% of all Indian muslims live here and this was Jinnahs corridor demand

Most of this islamic corridor runs along sparsely populated areas near the Nepal border, hence it is easy to tilt the demographics and being on the border of 2 countries, easy for subversion





The Indian govt needs to redeploy its armed forces

We need a lot more paramilitary second echelon forces than top ranked first echelon forces



For example the typical soldier retires at 35

But is still physically fit for local armed policing till the age of 50



India has about 3 million armed men overall,

but out of these only 70,000 are located in riot zones

these are called Rapid Action Forces battalions



Out of 500 Indian districts outside JK, 30 districts are more than 30% muslim



Recently KPS.Gill said that Pakistan is shifting its efforts to using internal jihadists

And before anyone says Ayodhya, I will remind that SIMI was formed in 1977



As I have explained, our main threat is internal jihadists

A trained company ( 100 men ) with INSAS can tackle easily a mob of 5000



We need about 1 million anti-riot paramilitaries

deployed in communally sensitive zones with shoot to kill orders

These can be recruited from ex-servicemen



All communally sensitive areas are those with over 20% muslim



In short the level of policing needs to be improved, and the local police need teeth

No-go zones must be aggressively reclaimed from Darul Islam by ruthless policing

Modi seems to have reimposed the rule of law on many muslim ghettos



Even Delhi is under policed, and there are only 80000 cops vs 1 million BD illegals



If we look at USA, it jails 2% of its population,

meaning India needs to have and can jail 20 million people



It is going to be a long war of attrition

and counter-demographic warfare and raising the policing levels are critical



Another factor to note is that islam is a triumphalistic religion,

when they smell success, they suddenly flip into jihadist mode

When defeated they go into deep depression for decades



Take for example the kashmir insurgency

This was always going on at a low level from 1953 onwards

After the pakistani defeat of 1971, this died down



As long as IG was the PM, the internal jihadists were afraid of her



After Mufti's daughter was exchanged they suddenly went into jihadist mode

In 1990, 1 lakh kashmiri govt employees went on strike demanding Azadi





The pressure on the local jihadists must be relentless

Any relaxation of pressure and jihadism surfaces



The Indian muslims can be further divided into 2 groups

Mullahs and followers

The key to control is to control the mullahs, who are 1% of the group

Some of them respond to money, or other forms of bribery to preach non-jihadist sermons.

Egregious cases like Imam Bukhari need exemplary punishment

If we note that every religious riot is mullah inspired, we already know the few thousand mullahs to jail

Why Was There No Tranfer Of Population? - Guest - 11-22-2003

Folks, as I have said before there is an alternative to increasing Hindu population and diluting residual muslim population. The solution is PROSELYTIZATION!!!





We need to actively seek out Muslim pockets and convert them to Hindu dharma en masse.



Let the B'deshis pump in a million Muslims every year.. we will convert them to Hinduism. The solution out of this Pukiland and B'dsh armpit is ACTIVE PROSELYTIZATION !!!!



The problem started with the invaders converting Hindus to Islam and it shall end when we convert Muslims back to the Hindu religion.



By 2050 Pukiland population will be 350 million, B'desh armpit will be 250 million and India 1600 million. We need to start proselytizing now to be in a decent position by 2050.

Why Was There No Tranfer Of Population? - G.Subramaniam - 11-22-2003

Demographic warfare defeats Proselytisation

-----------------------------------------------------



Lets look at the xtians, they pumped in billions of dollars and in 200 years went from 0.5% to 2% in south asia

from 1800-2000



In the meantime by simply making babies, muslims expanded from 15% to 30%

of south asia



Further, they kill proselytisers and finally they wont be amenable to conversion if they think they can win by simply making babies



Hence for several decades we need counter demographic warfare right up to the malthusian limits



Sheer survival over-rides education, wealth and good quality of living



By the time you convert 1, they make 10000

Why Was There No Tranfer Of Population? - Guest - 11-22-2003

GS,



The Xtians were/are not operating on their own turf. We will be operating on our own turf and we will be in majority. Your argument may be valid if Hindus tried to proselytize in B'desh or Pukiland. Also the Muslims in India were originally Hindus.. So proselytization may not be as bad as you think.



Also, I am not suggesting proselytization at the expense of other options, but remember that we will have a tough time convincing Hindus to have more kids because that would entail more economic burden.



I have been toying with this proselytization idea only recently.. Do any of you have any idea about groups/people doing this?

Why Was There No Tranfer Of Population? - G.Subramaniam - 11-22-2003

In India, if a hindu or xtian proselytiser enters a muslim neighborhood, they will be killed

Unlike xtians, hindus dont have a proselytising organisation

Further the rate of proselytisation has to be super fast

The only feasible alternative is a counter-demographic war immediately with an awareness campaign showing that neither your wealth nor your education will save you from islamic demographics

Why Was There No Tranfer Of Population? - Guest - 11-22-2003

Getting rid of bangladeshi's is possible. It will require vigilante justice, but it is possible. Once they realize they will get hurt and are unwelcome, they start to run back.

Re-coversion is possible, but I don't think we have any political consensus to accomplish it in a significant way.

My opinion is we will have to all of the above in some measure to move the needle :



1) Re-convert as many as we can back to Hindu or Sikh or Budhist

2) Expand the base of moderates amongst muslims

3) Tactical demographic warfare, with a view to diluting muslim %

4) Make it very "costly" for bangla's to sneak into India; put the fear of wahe-guru/ram in the buggers who are already here to make them run away.

5) Strengthen law and policing - as recommended by GS above in his numerous posts



All of these in combination will be required to stem the rot , resulting from the folly of Nehru and company in 1947 - and our weak character to not resist it mightily.

Why Was There No Tranfer Of Population? - G.Subramaniam - 11-22-2003

All these need hindu awareness

-------------------------------------



To give an example, if we look at the eastern border belt, which has grown from

21% to 28% muslim, since 1951-1991

In these areas, hindus vote BJP since there is sharp polarisation due to islamic behavior patterns such as ISI activity and rioting

However only 10% of hindus live in these zones and are aware

90% of hindus are dumb fools singing Iswar Allah Tere Naam



Once hindu awareness starts then progress can be made

Why Was There No Tranfer Of Population? - Guest - 11-22-2003

I am surprised that with the BJP has so much power in Gujarat and yet they have not pushed all the muslims living there into Pakistan.

There are about 4 million muslims in Gujarat and 5 million in Rajasthan.

With the absolute power that Narendra Modi has in Gujarat, what is preventing him from pushing the 4 million Guju Muslims across the border?


In Rajasthan, recently the tribals cleaned out all the muslims living their village and made it a 100% Hindu village.

Why Was There No Tranfer Of Population? - G.Subramaniam - 11-23-2003

While the BJP is less anti-hindu than others, in most ways it resembles the
congress of 1947 - Nehru
Which was opposed to Nehru's muslim appeasement, but not aimed at muslim extermination

Advani attended his niece's Nikah to a muslim

The agenda of BJP is not extermination or expulsion of muslims
It is getting Indian muslims to accept cultural nationalism,
a-la Indonesian muslims, stop identifying with foreign invaders and so on
Syed Shahabuddin is well aware of this and even he admitted in an interview with
foreign journalists that neither liquidation nor forced conversion is on the agenda
of the sangh parivar

What the sangh parivar does not understand is that accepting cultural nationalism
or accepting that muslim invaders did misdeeds will unravel islam
and hence is being bitterly opposed by mullahs
Mullahs for example teach the curriculum of Shah Wali-ullah in all madrasas
Shah Wali-ullah called for forced conversion of hindus

To my understanding the sangh parivar has no idea of practical and realistic methods to defang islamic fundamentalism
It is being unfairly tarnished by the psecs for simply observing correctly that
islamic fundamentalism is not a fringe phenomenon and is a threat to hindus

In a recent muslim abduction case in bihar, I tried working with the sangh parivar and discovered that it has no muscle power
It does function as an early news alert service
It warned against muslim demographic warfare, article 370, BD illegals and ISI activities by Indian muslims ,since about 1960

About 80% of the efforts of the sangh parivar is focused on sewa activities

While it did fight against muslims in 1947 in Punjab and kashmir, that was not its main function and in both those cases, the congress supplied weapons to RSS to fight the islamists

Even in the Gujurat riots, VHP has branches in 10,000 villages and only 200 villages saw riots. Meaning in 98% of cases, VHP did not take part in riots
In the Gujurat hindu retaliation, in many cases the mobs were led by local
hindu congressmen

Even in Gujurat, islamists have not been fully defanged, they still do low level rioting every day

Naredra Modi does not have absolute power in Gujurat
He is hounded by psec media and psec supreme court
Further he is subject to the Indian constitution
Modi is less fascistic than CPM in WB and Lalloo and Mulayam


In many tribal villages, muslim money lenders and landlords exploit hindu tribals
The leftist EPW admitted last year that if the oppressors were hindus, the tribals would have been justified in doing much more violence, but it disapproved of the violence because muslims were on the receiving end

Last year, 2 million hindus rioted in Gujurat
The sangh parivar does not have 2 million members in Gujurat
What happened was that on a local basis, hindus who had been suffering low level muslim harassment for decades decided to take local revenge after Godhra raised emotions

Why Was There No Tranfer Of Population? - Guest - 11-23-2003

Subramaniam,

Thanks for the clarification.

It appears that the RSS, VHP & BJP are also soft organizations.

They talk big about "Hindu rashtra", but they neither the will nor the muscle power to back it up.

The late Arvind Ghosh who used to run the website www.swordoftruth.com, called the RSS as "a bunch of old men doing sit ups & sit downs with twigs and branches".

Looks like the Sangh Parivar is just a cultural organization.

We need to create other organizations who will solve the islamic problem one and for all in India.

Why Was There No Tranfer Of Population? - Guest - 11-23-2003

Very informative and interesting GS!

So it looks like there is no organized resistance of muslims by hindus. I used to believe that the RSS and VHP were much more than just anti-muslim-appeasement. But it looks like they are only reactive and not proactive.

Why Was There No Tranfer Of Population? - G.Subramaniam - 11-24-2003

Regarding Sangh Parivar
---------------------

If you consider that hindu society is besieged and facing total war
sangh parivar performs a role which I term civil defense
a very critical and important role, but much different from an army

The psecs paint sangh parivar as a militant organisation mainly to fool hindus
to think they have a protector and they can rest at ease
At no point does sangh parivar claim to have a paramilitary force

Per Guru Golwalker and many other hindu scholars, hindu society faces attacks
from 3 fronts
Islam, missionary minded xtians ( as opposed to normal xtians ), and commies

All 3 of them aim to detach the weakest link in hindu society, namely Dalits and tribals
The composition of India is as follows

Muslims 13%
Xtians 3%
Dalits 16%
Tribals 8%
Sikhs, Jains, Buddhists 3%
OBC 43%
Upper Caste 14%

The main thrust of sangh parivar is to integrate the weaker sections into hindu society. They have several anti-casteist fronts and incidents of casteism have come down drastically, while of course there is still much ground to cover

Tribals are also being integrated into a honorable place in hindu society
Sangh parivar has many senior Dalit and tribal leaders

Sewa activities are critical since this prevents inroads of petro-dollars, church dollars and naxalism
If you look at the naxalite movement, they have a tactical alliance with islamists and missionaries. The Nepal maoists have banned sanskrit and enforced beef eating in their areas

The VHP for instance is not a pure sangh parivar front, it has some members from sangh parivar and some from religious leaders
Thanks to inputs from sangh parivar, many of the independent religious leaders have started anti-casteism and sewa work
This is foundation level work, in raising awareness and creating a will to resist
and creating cohesion in hindu society

Resistance to muslim rioters actually comes from pre-existing caste associations
95% of so called communal riots are local riots between muslims and local caste groups
In Agra, it is between Jatavs ( Dalits ) and muslims
In Hubli it is between Pattigars ( OBC ) and muslims
In Marad it is between fishermen ( Dalits ) and muslims

The sangh parivar has a very peripheral role in these events except that some local sangh units may at times, help these local caste groups resist islamists

Sangh parivar also acts as awareness raising in showing these episodes in mini-pakistans to other hindus

At this point sangh parivar is simply a reactive movement

My suggestion for more activist hindus is to follow the advice of Savarkar and enlist in the army
The Indian army offers a 5 year short service commission
Militarise hindu society and the muslims prefer non-jihadism

It is also found from field experience that muslims prefer to attack hindu localities that are non-cohesive, hence by field experience it is found that muslim propensity to riot comes down in many instances where thanks to sangh ground work in the field, the local hindus got organised

The function of the sangh parivar is to deter muslim rioting and not indulge in rioting

The sangh parivar also suffers from lack of clear thinking

They lament over Akhand Bharat and at the same time complain quite rightly about BD illegals ( a small sample of Akhand Bharat or shall I say Akhand Islamistan )
Sardar Patel was much clearer on the implication of partition
he called it amputation of a gangrenous limb
Partition got rid of as many muslims as possible without losing too much land

The sangh parivar laments over islamic demographics instead of launching a
counter-demographic warfare program

In conclusion, the sangh parivar offers a very useful but incomplete solution to the problems of hindu society

Why Was There No Tranfer Of Population? - acharya - 11-26-2003

http://www.partitionofindia.com/

We all know that India was partitioned in 1947 and while some would call it "The Year of the Lion", the others would call it "The Year of the Rat". It affected hundreds of millions of human lives. But since then very little thought has been given to the reasons, the circumstances and the consequences of Partition for all the people of the sub continent ever since.

World War 2 had been a bitter struggle for life and death of the United Kingdom, India's imperialist masters at the time and their Indian colony was assured of independence as a reward for their support to defeat the AXIS Powers (Germany, Italy and Japan). Not all the political parties in India supported the war effort. All India Congress Party under the leadership of Mr. MK ("Mahatma") Gandhi and Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru were conspicuously opposed to the continuing British rule over India and had become an obstacle. There had been widespread civil disobedience across the country, particularly in Maharashtra, UP and Bihar. However, All India Muslim League, the party claiming to speak for all the Indian Muslims remained neutral.

With long memory and a spirit of vengeance the British decided to leave India but only after partitioning it between the Muslims and the Hindus. However, since All India Congress Party continued to insist on speaking on behalf of all the Indians, including the Muslims, the term "Hindus" became "The Rest".

By this insistence of All-India Congress Party, the Muslims were rewarded with FIVE provinces of India while the Hindus ended up with nothing. Hindu religion was not enshrined in her Constitution as the State Religion. India still remained under Congress Party that was committed to the rights of the Muslims as much as to the rights of the Hindus. In this equation, the unfortunate Hindus became twice losers.

Islamic Pakistan set about total ethnic cleansing of the non Muslim minorities while the Rest of India became secular and protective of Muslim life, property, constitutional rights and safeguards. It is this fact that has continuously soured relations between the two communities in PI (Partitioned India).

Since Congress Party were in absolute control of PI, they could simply brainwash their subjects into forgetting Partition and, instead, to look at the achievements of its own leaders in driving the British out of India. The subservient "Indian coolie" media continued to champion the new ideology of make-believe world in which a fragment of India is still called "India", SOUTH Kashmir is still known as "Kashmir" and the small fragment of the original grand province of The Punjab is still known as "Punjab". The people of India really swallowed the Congress bait "hook, line and sinker".

Pandit Nehru, aware of his High Treason, set about playing the tunes of "Hindu-Muslim Bhai Bhai", Secularism, adoration of Gandhi and his Ahimsa Parmo Dharma, lulling the people into accepting his Dynasty as the legitimate and rightful rulers of India for ever. Thus he could successfully prevent any inquisitive patriotic eyes from probing into his treacherous role at Partition.

In due course of time Nehru Dynasty acquired so much power over the people of India that more of them saw their salvation in worshipping Nehru and his politically convenient mentor Gandhi, rather than questioning his role at Partition or his secularism and morality. The Gandhis, as the Nehru Dynasty came to be known to further mislead and fool the people as to their real genealogy and ideology, had a paranoia about freedom of speech. They controlled the media, particularly Broadcasting, that is crucial in an
illiterate country like India, and closely watched any journalist and editor "stepping beyond the line". They put their foot down on 1947 and all what happened to the ordinary people of India in that year.

Whatever was to smear their fair name in the world, was ruthlessly ELIMINATED or CRUSHED. Some dare devil democrats and champions of freedom of speech were severely punished during the Emergency declared by Pandit Nehru's daughter in 1975. It was a hammering that was to keep the nation's HEAD DOWN for another quarter of a century.

There were two unfortunate consequences of this Suppression of Truth about Partition. Firstly, the guilty were never punished and secondly no official report was commissioned on PARTITION to list the losses- both HUMAN and MATERIAL, or record the political consequences like the wars over Kashmir. Nothing was put down in the Constitution enacted under Nehru's close scrutiny on 26 January 1950 about reunification of the country. The questions, "What direction will India, Pakistan and Bangladesh be going?" and, "What will be the consequences of that for peace in all parts of former India?" have never been answered.

As a result of this extreme suspicion of 'people power', the two new States bore the brunt of brutality. It meant that Nehru Dynasty were beyond Law and NO enquiry could be conducted about their treason and corruption at and after Partition. No one could question their vast wealth in the shape of bank accounts and properties in India and abroad, and the various "foundations" that siphon off nation's savings in a big but unseen way. SOUTH Kashmir and EAST Punjab have remained afflicted with militancy that has held life to ransom. Both States are related in an ironic way, being the illegitimate product of Partition.

The website www.1947.lt is the PEOPLE'S own site with two aims-

1. Give the people the chance to tell the others of their personal experiences and memories of that fateful year when MILLIONS were uprooted from their ancestors' territory.
2. Offer indictment of the political leaders of the time who are otherwise beyond reproach and criticism. We hear the term "Father of the Nation" applied blindly in the case of both Jinnah and Gandhi. On THIS site the PEOPLE will look at the roles fathers play in the family and whether these two men were really entitled to be called "fathers" since they were more the victims of their own personal ambitions, mutual rivalries and animosities and the invisible hand of the Imperialist Overlords overhead.

You are invited to recall those days and if you were born after 1947 or have no clear memory, then please ask those who were well aware of what was happening then. The best people to set the PEOPLE'S record straight are the elderly in our communities, our parents and grandparents and anyone else who can narrate truthfully and as objectively as possible, as to what happened before, during and after the partition of India. Personal stories like witnessing burning properties, abduction and rape of girls, killing of people, ambushes and the long convoys and their arrival at new and
unfamiliar places, the modes of travel and escape, are all important to be recorded for posterity. We should not have to live under the remorse that "they scattered and vanished like the ants when floods devastate their colony."

On this List all are invited to contribute- not any one particular group or denomination. It is for the Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists and Atheists as much as for the Muslims and the Christians, and anyone else. These ought to be true recollections and honest views and impressions.

THANK YOU.

Why Was There No Tranfer Of Population? - Guest - 12-25-2003

<!--QuoteBegin-mitradena+Nov 23 2003, 03:42 AM-->QUOTE(mitradena @ Nov 23 2003, 03:42 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--> I am surprised that with the BJP has so much power in Gujarat and yet they have not pushed all the muslims living there into Pakistan.

There are about 4 million muslims in Gujarat and 5 million in Rajasthan.

With the absolute power that Narendra Modi has in Gujarat, what is preventing him from pushing the 4 million Guju Muslims across the border?


In Rajasthan, recently the tribals cleaned out all the muslims living their village and made it a 100% Hindu village. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree that we would have all been better off if the Muslims had not invaded us and converted a lot of people by force and spread the virus of differences, but that was 711AD, this is 2003.

We cannot throw out our Muslims, but we can make sure that we don't pamper them or let them get away with crimes. STOP the Haj subsidy. Enforce uniform civil laws. If they want islamic rule, they can go live in Saudi Arabia of Pure Land Pakistan. Indian Muslims must learn to live with the dominant Hindus, else they can leave. But if they do, they can stay.

Thats what I feel about it.

Why Was There No Tranfer Of Population? - G.Subramaniam - 12-25-2003

Muslims dont obey laws anyways

Illegal Roadside Namaz
Illegal cow slaughter
Illegal Azan etc

Any attempts to enforce existing laws on muslims will lead to riots

Muslim ghettos are defacto pakistan and only armed police can enter this area

Unless hindu society develops the backbone to enforce existing laws, simply
passing laws is of no use

As far as UCC is concerned, it directly hits the power of the mullah and expect to
see partition type riots if UCC is passed

Late Ali Mian said if UCC is passed, each muslim must have 10 children to overturn
the law

Why Was There No Tranfer Of Population? - Guest - 12-25-2003

GS: See the problem has been for the past 50+ years one community has been selectively given special status at expense of all other communities.
Yes we have laws - should be enforced uniformly. Laws were shamelessly overlooked for appeasment as in case of Shah Bano. Check any other non-muslim nation - it's not all that easy to start screamig at the top of the lungs at 5:00 am or one just can't divorce over cellphone's SMS typing "talak" thrice.
Speaking out against such nonsense gets one brickbats from the p-sec types. <!--emo&:argue--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/argue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='argue.gif' /><!--endemo-->

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Late Ali Mian said if UCC is passed, each muslim must have 10 children to overturn the law<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't know who this Mian bhai is - but I hope anyone advocating such carp is given a sound trashing - that too by muslim women <!--emo&Tongue--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tongue.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Let's hope one of these days UCC will be passed AND IMPLEMENTED.

Why Was There No Tranfer Of Population? - Guest - 12-25-2003

I visited India exactly a year ago and went to Mysore, Delhi and Jaipur, the racket caused by the mullah in the mosque calling people to prayer was so annoying. Why the F can't they ban that stuff, this is India, not Saudi Arabia. Prophet Mohd didn't tell them to use loudspeakers to blare their moans all across town. It was really bad in Jaipur where the main street was close to a masjid.

BAN ALL LOUDSPEAKERS AT MOSQUES.

Let the mullah scream at the top of his lungs if he loves his God so much. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Why Was There No Tranfer Of Population? - Guest - 12-25-2003

KJ: I spent a few years amongst community which had a major muslim population and lived listening to loud speakers blaring early morning for every day that I lived there. In Mumbai, from what I"ve heared recently, the late night dandiya-raas during Navratri is shut down around 1:00 a.m. In past it used to go on till the wee hours of the early morning. I support this 100% because I seen as to how disruptive it can be especially if it's a weekday where you are kept awake by the loud dance and festivities for 9 consecutive days. <!--emo&Confusedleepy--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sleepysmileyanim.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sleepysmileyanim.gif' /><!--endemo-->

I trust there is a noise ordinance act - now why is this not implemented - UNIFORMLY? Simple laws - already in books. <!--emo&:blink:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blink.gif' /><!--endemo-->