Sri Durvasa, the venerable one, was 'born' into one of the most illustrious family. He is the son of Atri Maharshi, and Sri Anasuya devi. Most of you already may know his famous brothers, Soma and Dattatreya (read Avadhutha Gita to get a taste of Duttatreya's works.)

Durvasa, literally means, one who CANNOT be clothed. Clothed not just by mere cotton or deer-skin, but even by the five Koshas (viz Anna, Prana, Manas, Vignanam and Anandha maya kosam). Sri Durvasa is said to be one of the famous Devi bhakthas.

Durvasa, has wrongly been projectd, mostly in the puranas, as an ill-tempered person who does not know the time and place to check His anger. On the contrary, Durvasa's external expression of anger usually has a hidden meaning. (I am not sure about the source of Ambareesha's story.)

Shakthi Mahimna Stotram (by Sri Durvasa), is one of THE best works in Shaktha. My grandfather once said, "Till you have read Sri Shakthi Mahimna, you haven't really tasted Anandham.", and that definitely is true.

I may be biased in defending Sri Durvasa, but only a person who has known and appreciated His works can understand that Sri Durvasa was beyond all Gunas.

Rudra, Narasimha Murthy, Krishna, Rama and all have expressed anger, but that does not make them Egoistic.It's okay for you to get angry, but it's NOT okay for anger to get you. (I claim, I haven't been angry since 1986.)

------------------------------------



Garu vaddhandi Spinster garu. Meeru mareenu. Sunder ani pilavandi chalu

What you say is true, with advancement of each chakra (it's definitely not one day at a time.), the jiva - not just feels, but - BECOMES powerful, but in different planes. The flight thru the chakras are usually completed in less than few seconds. On some days, it's just a trickle upwards, and sometimes (including my first time), it's a volcanic gush, upwards and into oblivion.

The feeling of Shivoham and Aham Brahmasmi will only be en-route to the gush.. Once you reach THAT state, it's goes from Aham Brahmasmi, to Aham Asmi, to Aham, and finally, no words, but pure being. (I should say, my only support is Sri Lalithambhika.)

If you want to try it or know more, I recommend Hamsopanishad, coupled with Sri Ramakrishna's books and Sri Shankaracharya's books on the subject (Prapanchasara, Soundarya lahari etc.).



Ram Garu.. Just call me Sunder. That'll do. I do not know where you can get the movie in the us, but email me at purohit at hotmail. I Live in a country close to the US, a little country up North. Get the clue eh?

Yes Sunder,

I am descendant of Attri, so I am naturally curious about it.

In Tamil:
Matrorai madhiyngal,
Mamiyaarai midhiyngal (?) oops..

Regarding Ambareesha, I know the story. I think the story is in the Bhagavatha. I am not sure as I haven't yet read the Bhagavatham.

The story from Pandava vanavasa(mu) and the related Aksya patra(mu) story is different one. There, Devi Krishnaa (aka Draupathi) has an akshaya pathram given by Surya. On that particular day, Sri Durvasa, with his 10000 disciples (?) visit the pandavas. By the power of the patram, one can produce any number of servings as long as it's not washed for that particular day. Krishnaa (Panchali) has already washed it. She is apprehensive that she may incur the curse of the Sage (by whose mantra given to Kunti devi, the very Pandavas were born.)

When Krishnaa (later Sairandhari) prays to lord Krishna (Vasudeva), Krishna (Varshneya) appears and "inspects" the akshaya patram. There is a spinach leaf (or some leaf) attached to it. When Parandhama relishes it, the hunger of all 10001 Rishis are satisfied.

In Bhagavat Geetha there's a line :
Patram Pushpam Phalam Thoyam yo mae bhakthya prayachathi. (BG 9:26)

As examples, I have heard the following:
The Patram is from the Story above.
Pushpam is the one given by Gajendra (Gajendra Moksham.)
Phalam given by Shabari.
Thoyam Given by Ambareesha, or Ranthideva.



Ram ji, can you please tell us the Pravaram for Atri Gotram? I know Durvasa and Dattatreya are not Gotrakarthas, as they are nivritthi karakas.

most atris of south India are descendents of the the great R^ishi shyAvAshva Atreya and archanAnA Atreya.
Other branches that were present in india are the :
descendents of purvatitha, vadbhutaka, gaviShThira and the female Atreya vishvavArA. The dattAtreya gotra while not seen in south India is seen amongst Himachalis and Kashmiris

they all descend from the great atri bhauma the first of the atris.

HH,
Any idea on the lineage of Naithrava Kashyapa Gothram?
The thriya rishis that comes in my abhivathaye are kashyapa, avastara, naithrava?

and secondly,
w.r.t shifting of temples, don't they create a *balalayam* (which they do while doing the kumbabhishekam) and after which do they do the shifting?

Sunder Saar,

Here is the chapter on Ambareesha in Srimad Bhagavatam.
Srimad Bhagavatam- Skandam 9 Chapter 4

If you happen to live in Toronto, i would have loved to meet you last year when i was there. I have met the great spin(ster) there!

spinster garu, i will send u a mail shortly.

Just curious, being Galava gothra, why very limited descendents are found even in North India, I am not sure about south India.

HH,

What about vishWamitra gothra

They have a smaller percentage in the poll done on the internet site.
Where are they orginally from - which part.

Gotra Site: http://www.bharatava...otra/gotra.html

Being the source for the gotra material for that site, I must mention that while it is one of the most detailed exposition of the gotra founders on the net it is incomplete because I never found the time to put in all the data.

Acharya: vishvamitras are found throughout Bharat, though each branch shows a different distribution. I need to known you pravara R^ishis to ascertain the branch. In Tamil Nad and Andhra they are about a 20% of the brahmins. Several kshatriya lines of andhras, like shatavAhanas also claim descent from vishvamitra.

Mudy: gAlava was the celebrated author of one of the R^igvedIya krama pAThas. more on him later. His descendents are largely limited to North India.

Shridhar: It is correctly pronounced as the naidhruva kAshyapa gotra. The R^ishis were avatsAra, nidhruva were descendent of kashyapas and authors of the somAdhyAya of the 9th maNDala of the R^igveda. The peculiarity of this gotra is the soma only AprI, unlike the agni AprIs of the other gotras.

HH/Sunder Sir,
Thanks.

HH garu>> can you please tell us about
Sri Vatsasa gotram,
(which is pancha rishiyam, Bhargava,
Syaavana, AApnavaana, Owrva, Jaamadaghn)

TIA

On doing a web search I found the following.


****
ADVERTISEMENT


Manjula: here are some details :

There are 20 Gothras. Each has its own three Rishis, which are referrred to in
the Pravaram.I will list the 20 Gothras/Pravaras and illustrate one of the
famous Gothras with details .

.GOTHRAM
PRAVARAM
**************
*********************************************
1. Bharadwaja ------------------------------ Aankirasa, Bhaarhaspatya,
Bharadwaja

2. Shatamarshana ------------------------ AAnkirasa, Powrukutsa,Traasatasya

3 .AAtreya----------------------------------------Atreya,Aarchanaasa,Syaavaasva

4 .Vatula-----------------------------------------Bhargava,Vaitahavya,Saavedasa

5 .Srivatsa---------------------------------------Bhargava,
Syaavana,AApnavaana,Owrva, Jaamadaghn

ya(Oppiliappan)
6. Kowsika------------------------------------Vaiswaamitra, AAgamarshana,Kowsika

7. Viswamitra-------------------------------- Vaiswaamitra,Devaraata, Owtala

8. Kowndinya-------------------------------- Vaasishta,Maitraavaruna, Kowndinya

9. Harita----------------------------------------AAnkirasa, Ambarisha,Yuvanasva

10. Mowdkalya(3 Variations)------------(1) AAnkiras,Bharmyasva,Mowdgalya
(2)
Tarkshya,Bharmyasva,Mowdgalya
(3)
AAnkirsa, Dhavya, Mowdgalya
11.Sandilya (2 Variations)-----------------(1) Kasyapa,Aavatsaara,Daivala
(2)
Kasyapa,Aavatsaara,Sandilya
12.Naitruvakaasyapa--------------------Kasyapa,Aavatsara,Naitruva
13.Kutsa-----------------------------------Aankirasa, Maandhatra,Kowtsa
14.Kanva--------------------------------(1) Aankirasa, Ajameeda,Kaanva
(2) Aankirasa,
Kowra, Kaanva
15.Paraasara---------------------------(1) Vaasishta, Saaktya, Paarasarya
16.Aagastya-----------------------------Aagastya,Tardhachyuta,Sowmavaha
17. Gargi-------------------------(1)
Aankirasa,Bharhaspatya,Bharadwaja,Sainya,Gargya
(2) Aangirasa, Sainya, Gaargya
18.Bhadarayana----------------Aankirasa,Paarshadaswa, Raatitara
19.Kasyapa---------------------Kasyapa, Aavatsaara, Daivala
20.Sunkriti ----------------------(1) Aankirasa,Kowravidha,Saankritya
(2)
Sadhya,Kowravidha,Saankritya

Among the 20, based on an analysis of Pravaras, one can see the Aankirasa Rishi
appears 12 times including multiple versions. Aankirasa is the Rishi with
whom more than half of the Atharva Veda samhitas a re associated. An analysis of
the Rishis associated with the Veda Mantras will give info on the other Rishis
associated with the twenty Gothras and their lineage.

Sage Kanva is the father of Sakutala celebrated by Kaalidasa. Bhargava referes
to the lineage of Bhrigu Maharishi, the foster father of Maha Lakshmi worshipped
as Bhargavi. . I will now say afew words about Shatamarshana Gothram. Natha
Muni, Aalavandar(Yaamuna Muni) belong to this Gothram.Bharadwaja appears in
Raamayanam .


Brahma according to Puranas had 4 sons:Atri, Bhrigu,Vasishta and Ankiras.

Their lines are as follows:

1.Ankiras---) Shatamarshana(Penance in the middle of Five fires at Haridhwar and
got the boon that the Sata Vayu will not affect him . Similar to the case of
Satakopan(Nammalwar later).His predecessors, Purukutsar and Traasa Dasyu were
authorities on Rig Vedam.Tras is made up of 3 Kinds of fear .Since these htree
kinds of fear ran away fro him out of fear for his Power derived from penance,
He is called Trasa Dhasyu. All the three Rishis (Ankiras, Purukutsar,Trsadasyu)
are thus included in the Pravaram of Shatamarshana Gothris.
2.Bhrigu----) Valmiki and Sri Vatsa Gothram

3. Atri--------) Dattatreya---) Atreya Gothram-----) Atreya Ramanujar and links
to
Vedanta Desikan
4.Vasishta-----) Sakti, Paraasara,Vyasa.(Paraasara is the author of Vishnu
Puranam and Vysaa , the author of Brahma Sutrams and Puraanas.

All of them are devotees of Sriman Narayana and are StaunchVaishnavas.

About Shatamarshana Gothram lineage, Before Shatamarshana: Ankiras,Purugutsar
and Trasadasyuwere all born in this Gothram. Shatamarshana gothris are called
Sreshtars or Sottai Kulam people in Tamil. Aalawandar refers to his reputed
Lineage referring to his grandfather Nata Muni & Shatamarshana thi s way:: "
Janitvaham Jagati Mahati Kyata Yasasam"( Stotra Ratnakaram.)
P.A. Ranganatha Tatacharya has written about the glory this Gothram in his
monograph" Shatamarshana Gothra Prabhavam".

Hope this information is useful to you with respect to your queries!

Sadagopan

P.S; I wonder How many Gothras are represented in our Study Group . Mine is
Vatula Gothram.

Sadhu, Sadhu.. May you live a thousand years. Hauma, I definitely am quite in admiration not only for your knowledge, but also of the amount of material you have access to. Where do you find texts like "Gotra-Pravara-Manjari" of Purushottama Pandita ?

dhanyosi

>Gotra-Pravara-Manjari
You can get an English trans. through ILL if you have access to a US univ library (I do not if it works for Canada though?). I have also looked into Sanskrit text of it in India and the pravara kANDas of number of shrauta sUtras.

Gotra frequencies in Ayyars

HH boss,

My family is from North India - Vrindavan and rumour has it from somewhere in Haryana before that. I have been told that I belong to Kashyapa gotra. How would that relate to the Iyers ? Does it mean that Iyers belonging to Kasshyapa gotra are related to me ? Sorry dont know what prvara rshi lineage my family belongs to ..

Regards..

Please read "Power in Temples: A Modern Perspective", that presents a scientific view of temple worship, which has behind it a fund of well-coordinated knowledge of the deeper facts of life and the universe.

One can get it from http://www.integralbooks.com

Enjoy!

Technically gotras are inherited with the male line. Thus everyone gets their father's gotra. The wife makes her offering with the husband's gotra in a rite. So, technically all people sharing a gotra should have descended from a common male ancestor throughout India.

In practice there are many variations on this theme:
1) There have been people who cheated in the past especially to acquire entry into higher castes.
2) If a person becomes an honorary kshatriya or honorary vaishya, they may tentively adopt their brAhmana guru's pravara for the duration of a ritual (some time they retain it if they do only 1 major ritual).
3) If a person is being made into an honorary brAhmaNa, he is usually assigned the kAshyapa gotra without a specific lineage.
4) Because of these events in the past the gotras approximately but not always indicate common ancestory and this usually holds good only amongst brAhmaNas.

The brAhmaNas in order to ensure people entering their previlaged ranks used gotra and pravara as a potent device. In many orthodox brahmin families a secret mantra is transmitted father to son during the thread ceremony to ensure memory of the founding fathers. In marriages families had to give their gotra lineage and list their ancestor till at least 7 generations. This was also used to avoid intermarrying within a lineage shared for 7 generations. Orthodox brahmins and several other hindus avoid marriage within the same gotra very scrupulously (or sharing a 7 generation connection).

These days such practices seem to be eroding in the cosmopolitan urban population.

<<Sri Vatsasa gotram,
(which is pancha rishiyam, Bhargava,
Syaavana, AApnavaana, Owrva, Jaamadaghn)>>

Correctly pronounced shri vatsa
bhArgava, chAyvana, ApnavAna, aurva, jAmadagnya is the pravara
They are bhArgavas, descendents of bhR^igu, just like gAlava who is also a branch of the bhArgava clan.

In Addition to the above, a person who is ADOPTED (Dattham) by someone automatically gets the adopter's gotra.

I remember that there were some ppl in Srirangam became Brahmanas by saying "Om Namo Bhagavathe Vasudevaya". I am not sure if they had a gotra assigned en masse.

Thankyou HH and Sunder for your replies.

I will ask around and gather more details when I go to India the next time around. All I know at this time is that our gotra is Kashyapa, we are somehow called Gaud (sp?) brahmins (ie the ones who didnt attend Sri Rama's celebrations on his victory over Ravana as Ravana was a brahmin and were supposedly cursed by Sri Rama) and we are decendants of Acharya Sri Hit Hari Vansh Goswami - could never figure out how all that was related to Kashyapa gotra. Thanks for your replies, guroos - you guys are tremendous assets at IF ..

Regards..

I vaguely remember my dad telling me (years and years ago) something about we might have been kshatriyas a few hundred years ago but cant confirm it so what HH says about honorary status does ring a bell. Unfortunately my dad is no more so will have to confirm it with somebody else..

If it can be confirmed then it would be a good example of mobility between varnas.

Rajesh ji, the thanks should go to Sri HH. I am only a bystander, marvelling the abundance of Knowledge, just as you are

BTW, your mention of being a Kshatriya.. You still ARE one. You need not be a Jathi Kshatriya, or a Karma Kshatriya, you could still be a Guna Kshatriya. i.e. a selfless actor in nature.

Or perhaps a Bauddhika Kshatriya http://www.bharatvan...s/tfst/chi1.htm

HH/ Sundar

I belong to the maudgalya gothra (Angirasa, Maudgalya, Bharmaswa (?)), I was trying out the Gothra Survey form. Now the trouble is my subsect. I could have put it under 'Others', but I would like to seriously know more about my subsect. We are not "Vadamal", our ancestory lies in Tirunelvelli. We are Rig Vedics, and sometimes people say that we are "Chozhi" class. Now I would like to know who are these Chozhiyars - what is the basic difference between us and the "Vadamal" group. Sometimes I have seen us being a little, shall I say, "humbled" by saying how we are "lesser" mortals than the "Vadamal" group . I would appreciate if I could know the meaning of all this .

Regards, and Thanks,
Eswar

Eswar, HH can throw better light on this one. But in the meanwhile, here is something I found on the Kerala Iyers' site. (I think we need to take Gotra and Pravara in a new thread than mixing it with Temple history.)

http://www.keralaiyers.com/sects.html

Sub sects of Kerala Iyers

Depending on the path they chose to migrate the Kerala Iyers are divided into Palakkad Brahmins and Pandikkars. The ndikkars. The Palakkad Brahmins migrated via the Palakkad pass and the Pandikkars (meaning those belonging to Pandya Nadu) migrated via Shenkottai (Aruvamozhy pass). The other wave of migration was from Tirunelveli and they maintained a separate identity. It is strange to note that though both these districts belonged to Pandya Nadu, the people who migrated from Tirunelveli consider those who migrated from Madurai as Pandikkars. They say that this sect is not through out Travancore state but in pockets around Cochin.

Till recently the identity of these groups were maintained. Cross marriages between these groups were uncommon. The Samoohams were separately maintained in towns where there is considerable population of both these groups, e.g., in Trichur, Irinjalakkuda, and Ernakulam. Most of the sub groups of Iyers like Vadamas, Brihatcharanams, Vathimas, Ashtasahasram, etc are represented among Kerala Iyers. Those belonging to Krishna Yajurveda etc. are also represented. Vadamas means those from North and Brihatcharanam means 'Big step'. Most of the Kerala iyers belong to these two groups. The other numerically powerful group is Ashtasahasram who have migrated from a village called Ennayiram in Tamil Nadu.

The Iyengars are normally absent but there are Vaishnavite villages in Pallipuram, and Thirunellayi. The Iyers of these villages wear a red line (Urdwa Pundram) as against the Vibhuthi of other iyers. They also did not have "Paramesawar Preetyartham" in Sankalpas but used to perform Viswaksena Pooja instead of Ganapathi Pooja. But over years due to possible reason of non-availability of priests, they perform their rituals similar to other Smarthas. It is important to note that their womenfolk always used to wear the ritualistic Sari measuring 9 yards similar to Iyers and not Iyengars. They also did not follow Ramanujacharya but were followers of a rebel group of Vaishnavas belonging to Ahobila.

There are two more groups of Vaishnava smarthas (research has indicated that early Vadamas preferred to wear Gopi Chandana instead of Vibhuti) in Kerala; they wear Gopi Chandana in the pattern of Madhwa Brahmins of Karnataka who speak tulu and the long Gopi Chandana mark like the Marathi Brahmins round about Pandarpur.

Another interesting group is Chozhiyans. People say that they originated from Chozha Desa but the fact is that they are a sub group of Brahmins called Sholiyars who claim that 'The Great Chanakya' of Chandra Gupta's court was one of them. They were generally temple priests by profession. They also are supposed to have officiated as priests in functions of non-Brahmins. These Brahmins have tuft in front of the head similar to the Namboothiris or the Chidambaram Deekshithars. There is a proverb among Kerala Iyers that "Chozhiyan Kudumi Chumma Aadathu" meaning a Chozhiyan does not do anything without purpose. This group of Brahmins occupies mainly the villages of Kodunthirapally, Chembai, Nellayi, Padur and Vengassery.

The other interesting groups of Iyers found in Kerala are the Mukkanis. They are the group of people who help the Potti (Karnataka Brahmin) head priest to perform Pooja in Thiruchendur Temple of Tamil Nadu. They say that during the invasion of Tamil Nadu by Malik Kafur, their forefathers who were the chief priests in Thiruchendur ran away and settled in a village called Mukkani. After the soldiers retreated they went back to claim their Pooja rights, they were told that due to their cowardly act they have lost this right. Most of them are settled around Trivandrum of Kerala.

There are then the Kurukkal who are a very small community doing Pooja in Shiva Temples owned and managed by Kerala Iyers in and around Palakkad. They are Shivacharyas and in the by gone era considered as inferior.

There are also Azhwars who are Bhattacharyas doing Pooja in Vishnu or Krishna Temples owned or managed by Palakkad Iyers. As mentioned earlier there is a considerable population of Iyers belonging to Krishna Yajurveda in Kerala. They perform Pratha Sandhya after the bath and again take bath before their Madyannikam. Because of this practice some people refer them as Madyanna Parayan.

Searching the net for more instances of Gotram, I found some mentions on Namboothiri site (which I am pasting below), and also of a Bengali angle to it. When I get time, I plan to consolidate this and try to make some sense out of the pravara (across India.) I am aware of "Aruvella" Niyogis in Andhra. If anyone has more info on this, or links, it would be appreciated.

http://www.namboothi...les/gothram.htm

The Smrthis as to the number of Gothrams - 7, 8, 10, and so on, upto 48. "Manusmrthi" quotes 8, while "Dharma Pradeepam" speakes of 48. The famous "Dasagothrams" (ten Gothrams) are :
1. Bhaaradwaajam,
2. Kausikam,
3. Vaatsam,
4. Kaundinyam, 5. Kaasyapam,
6. Vaasishttham,
7. Jaamadagnyam, 8. Vaiswaamithram,
9. Gauthamam, and
10. Aathreyam.


"Vishnu Bhaagavatham" has reference to the following set of seven sages (Saptharshis) :

1. Mareechi,
2. Athri,
3. Angirass, 4. Pulasthyan,
5. Pulahan, 6. Krathu, and
7. Vasishtthan.


Several among the Saptharshis referred to in "Manusmrthi" as Swayambhuva Manu's progeny and ancestors are said to be creators of Rigveda Sookthams. The Saptharshis of the present Vaivaswatha Manwantharam are :

1. Vasishtthan,
2. Kaasyapan,
3. Athri, 4. Jamadagni,
5. Gauthaman, 6. Viswaamithran, and
7. Bharadwaajan.


The Chiranjeevis (those who live eternally) who are said to have become eligible to be the next set of Saptharshis are :

1. Deepthimaan,
2. Gaalavan,
3. Parasuraman, 4. Kripan,
5. Dronan, 6. Vyaaghan, and
7. Rishyasrngan.


PRAVARAM


Pravarams are sub-classes attached to each Gothram (Click here for article: About Namboothiris). The word literally means renowned, the best, the greatest, etc. Every Gothram has three or five Pravara-Purushans (great persons) whose names are attached to the Gothram thus defining the Pravaram. Therefore, every Braahmanan, just as he has a Gothram, has a specific Pravaram too.
The performer of certain rituals like Ishti and Yaagam has to know which Pravaram he belongs to, since he has to disclose it while doing them. Some Pakazhiyan (Aaswalaayanan) families have to say their Pravaram while performing Udakakriya.

GOTHRAM - PRAVARAM - CHARANAM : OCCASIONS FOR CHANGE

There are circumstances under which a Namboothiri family's Gothram, Pravaram and Charanam are to be changed. The occasions may be (1) "Dathu" (adoption), (2) "Penkoda"/ "Veli" (marriage) or (3) "Sarvaswa Daanam Vettirikkal" or "Vettirikkal".

(1) "Dathu" : Adoption of a boy (Unni) or an adult (Namboothiri) by a family is done only when all the lines (Thaavazhi) (branches) of the family cease to have a fertile male and threat of extinction prevails. It is recognised only through a "Pathu Kayyu Dathu" (ten hands - the boy's and the two original and the two adopting parents). After adoption, the boy and all his descendants must follow a combination (or mixture) of the two Gothrams and Pravarams of the previous and new families, if any of these are different. Those alive in the family at the time of adoption, retain theirs. If later, yet another adoption takes place in this family, they take on a mixture of the two, if different, and so on. Adopting family loses their earlier duties, powers as well as Charanam and accepts those of the boy's original family.

(2) "Penkoda" / "Veli" : The "Udakapoorvam" part of Namboothiri marriage ritual releases the bride from her father's Gothram, Pravaram and Charanam. The later portion, "Paanigrahanam", of the ritual attaches her to the groom's Gothram, Pravaram and Charanam for the rest of her life.

(3) "Sarvaswa - Daanam Vettirikkal" or just "Vettirikkal" : When all branches (Thaavazhi) of a family cease to have a fertile male, instead of "Dathu", a girl of the family can be given in marriage to a Namboothiri of another family, then receive both of them to the girl's house, and transfer the entire property and assets to him. The wife and their descendants then adopt her husband's Gothram, Prvaram and Charanam (if different), and other prescribed duties. The other living members of the family continue to keep their own Gothram, Pravaram and Charanam.


Some such families now do not know their original Gothram, Pravaram and Charanam, having been a long time after the event and the death of the then living members.


Many mistakenly believe that Viswaamithra Gothram has no Pravaram. Even Namboothirs of this Gothram, have Pravarams such as Kaathyolkilam and Madhuchhandass. Inter-marriage between different Pravarams is not permitted within Viswaamithra Gothram and therefore, many among this Gothram have forgotten their Pravaram. Among Namboothiris, in Kaasyapa Gothram, there is only one Pravaram, "Naidhruvam Aavatsaaram". Inter-marriage is permitted within Aangirasa Gothram if Pravarams are different.


------------

Traditional genealogy of bengali brahmins: shANDilya gotra
http://members.tripo...yopadhyaya.html

Traditional genealogy of bengali brahmins: sAvarNa gotra.
http://members.tripo...gopadhyaya.html

There has been some male mobility between varNas. They are usually of the following type:
1)people of the shudra varNa or indigenous tribals or foreign settlers like various mideaval Iranian tribes (eg. Saka, Parthian and Pahallavan) have becom kshatriyas. A notable case was the ceremony of lalitAditya the kashmirian emperor, where he had brAhmaNas elevate many tribes to the Rajput status. These became the agnikula Rajputs. Some Maharatta families are also kshatriyas of this type, while others claim a more ancient kshatriya origin.
2) Tribal and local priests occasionally gained access to the brAhmaNa varNa. The gurukal sect in TN may in part comprise of such upwardly mobile individuals. There is a certain rule of manu by which over several generations such mobility may happen.
3)The kshatriya/vaishya families of the Saurashtrians have undergone elevation to the purogidar status (considered equivalent to brAhmaNa). Some of them assume titles typical of brAhmaNas like Ayyar or Ayyangar.
4)Iranian priest of the aforementioned tribes, were absorbed in North India as shAkadvIpi brAhmaNa (usually assigned to kAshyapa gotra).
5) brAhmaNas have been down-graded in the North forming part of the Bumihar section.
.........
1) In ancient vedic times such transformations, usually involving marriage relationships with famous brahmin family resulted in kshatriyas becoming brAhmaNas: maudgalya (descendents of king bhR^imyAshva), shaDmarShaNas (descendents of great ikshvAku king trasadasyu), vAdhulas (descendents of king vItayhavya, the haihaya yadu) etc became brahmins.
2) vishvAmitra's clan a famous kshatriya clan became a brahmin clan- the kaushika gotra.

3) In more later times many brahmins assumed kshatriya-hood. The bharadvAja family gave rise to the shunga kings, kANva family to the kANva dynasty, the maitreya family to the maitraka kings, the bhArgava family to the famous ga~nga dynasty of south India.
..........
choLians are an early branch of south Indian brahmins. Along with the dIkShitas of Chidambaram, they are more closely related to the nambuthiris than the other Iyer groups.

The bR^ihat charaNaM means the great sect (not great step). They were the next large sect of brahmins to populate the tamil regions.

The vaDamas are the last and came from the north as their name indicates. They are not a uniform group. The bulk of them have a famous mantra for Narmada in the saMdhya indicating that they came from the banks of the Narmada, via Andhra. Other small groups from even further north such as Himachal and Nepal, Maharashtra or just a little north from Andhra. However, many of them have homogenzied a lot in recent time. Most people these days do not recall their ancestory and the knowledge of one's precise group is being lost.

In north India people still record their family name in temples.
One can trace ancestory more than 500 years back.

Thankyou HH for another very informative post.

If you could also cite some examples or just general information similarly for downwardly mobile varnas that would be great.

Regards..

Sunder i belong to Vaishnava smartha who wear Gopi Chandana instead of Vibhuti, though Rajamannargudi near Thanjavur is my native. In our family we get conflicting claims about the length of the Gopi Chandana that we should wear. And the latest i heard from that subject was that the length should reflect your Gnanam. We speak tamil.

And i hear that there is two more sub-classification of vadamas in the Tanjavur belt as 1) Vada desathu vadama 2) Chozha desathu vadama. And i also heard from our family members that one of our fore fathers came down from Vada desa to Chozha desa (hence the vada desathu vadama) during the islamic invasion. They say that the people who migrated down south during that period generally went either to Chozha desa or Pallakkad.

So, i am not sure whether it implies Chozha desathu vadama migrated to south earlier than the vada desathu vadama.

Hi HH,

Thanks for the wealth of information.

I would like you to clarify the pravaras & sutram for SankRti gotram.

1. Does the order matter when listing the pravaras?

The sandhya book that I have lists the following 3 pravaras for SankRti gotram:

a. Angirasa, gaurIvIti, sAnkRtya
b. sAktya, gaurIvIti, sAnkRtya
c. sAktya, sAnkRtya, gaurIvIti

You website lists it as:

Angirasa, sAmkRtya, gaurivIta
Angirasa, gaurivIta, sAnkRtya
shAktya,, gaurivIta, sAnkRtya

Also is the correct pronunciation gaurivIta or gaurIvIti ?

Furthermore how am I to determine which of the pravaras is mine?

Mitradena, are you a Sankrithi too ?
I was initiated, and taught to say my abivadhanam as follows:

Abivaadhayae, Saakthya, Sankruthya, Gauriveetha thraya rishae, pravaraanvithah, Sankrithi gotrah, apasthambha sutra, Yajuh.shaka adhyaayee, --- namaaham asmi Bo.H

Never said gauriveethi.

HH, you would be able to enlighten us. Perhaps we should approach HH, with fuel (samidh) in our hands.

Cool!

Long live the descendents of Sankrti!


I have seen people with last name Sankriti/ Saankritya/Sankrityan in different parts of India. Maybe we are all related!


Even I used to say gaurIvIta, but the sandhya book says gaurIvIti.

Furthermore, Rgveda verse 29 is attributed to gaurivIti sAktya and verse 73 & 74 to gaurIvIti. So gaurivIti could be the correct pronunciation.

There are two unrelated saMkR^ityas. 1) kevala A~ngirasa. A~ngirasa is there in their pravara.
2) shAktyas- these are vasiShThas- they have no A~ngirasa in their pravara and are descendents of shakti the son of vasiShTha through arundati.
shakti had two sons parAshara and gauravIti, whose son was saMkR^iti, from whom this gotra descends.
All currently recorded shAktya saMkR^ityas are only known to follow the Apastambha sUtra.

gauravIta is a patronymic derived from gauravIti the son of shAkti; hence it should be thus


well that is only for great munis not for mere vrAtyas like me.

Hi HH,

I found a third SankRti listed as "sAnkRti Atreya" in the Mahabharata!

The book I have is titled "Sandhyavandanam" and published by Giri trading, Chennai. (http://www.giritrading.com)

The lists of gotra in there are taken from a book called the "Dharma Sindhu".

It lists all the 3 sankRti gotra/pravarams under the bhAradvAja section. Which I assume is a sub-section of the kevala Agirasas.

More info on the kevala Angirasa sankRti :-

The Srimad Bhagavatam states that one vidAthin belonging to the bhAradvAja family was adopted by Maharaja Bharata son of dushyanta/sankuntala.

This vidAthin's descendents were:

vitatha
bhuvamanyu(bhumanyu)
Nara
SankRti

SankRti had 2 sons gurudhI and rantideva. rantideva is of course the famous Kshatriya king mentioned in many puranic stories.

Their descendents were converted into brahmanas.

Hi,
Am Sathish.New to this pot. My sharman is Rangaswami and gotram Kaushika. We are North Arcot Vadama. First of all great job with the research. Iam really amazed by it. Now to my queries.Firstly, how do I find out what subsect of Vadama do I belong to. Secondly, if Intermarriage within Gotras is prohibited, does that apply to different Pravaras arising out of the same Rishi?Thirdly, whats the significant difference in usage and practice of semi secular rituals in weddings and other social occassions between different subsects belonging to the same area.
Thanks

The only reliable way to do this is by consulting your predecessors. What kind of forehead mark do you wear? That may give a clue.



In most cases yes- All the bhArgavas sharing a common male ancestor for example do not inter-marry, but kevala bhArgavas and real bhArgavas may.



There are differences between sects of smArtas. For example in Tamil nad there the the great sect (bR^ihat charaNa) or the old migrants who have very different customs from brahmins of the northern sect or vaDamas. The vaDamas are also extremely heterogenous in themselves having multiple unrelated origins with different customs.

Some customs are gotra specific. For example the "main-line" bhArgava who practice the atharvan or were associated at some point with the atharvana shruti had some peculiarity in their marriage [cannot be discussed on open forum] and funeral customs that is no longer in vogue in the moderns. The conversion of vaiShNavism also introduced some special customs.

Finally, amongst other communities like Nayak, Nayadu, Nayar etc there are tremendous regional differences in customs even though they emerged from a common cultural stream.

Family tree- Rishis & Maharishis Lineage: -

1. Brahma
2. Atri & Daksha(two sons of Brahma).
3. Daksha begot Aditi
4. Aditi begot Vivasvat
5. Vivasvat begot Manu.
6. ILA (daughter of Manu - she married Soma)
7. ILA gave birth to .Pururavas.
8. Pururavas
9. Ayusha
10. Nahusha
11. Yayati(1st and greatest conquerer on earth) - he married Devayani daughter of Sage Sukracharya.
12. Devayani gave birth to two sons - Yadu and Turvasu - The descendants of Yadus were called as Yadavas.
13. Yadu had a son called Kroshtu
14. Devamidbush
15. Shoora
16. Vasudeva(Andhakas is another clan descended from another son of Kroshtu - 17. Ugrasena is the head of Andhakas - Vasudeva was the chieftain to the king Ugrasena).
18. Kamsa was the son of Ugrasena
19. Vasudeva Married Devaki the daughter of Devaka who was the brother of King Ugrasena.
20. Devaki gave birth to the SREEKRISNA


Lineage of Bhrigu: -

1.Bhrigu

2.Sukracharya (also called as kavi Ushanas).He had a daughter named Devayani who was married to King Yayati.

3.Chyavana (wife's name is Sukanya the daughter of King Sharyat).

4.Richika (hereditary chief of Bhrigus -the warrior priests - he was the high-priest of Mahismat, the king of Haihayas - he was considered the master of Atharvan lore - he married Satyavati daughter of king Gadhi after migrating from the present Gujarat to Punjab).

5.Jamadagni (son of Richika - Sage Jamadagni married Renuka who was affectionately called as Amba).

6.Parasurama (also called as Bhargava - Avatar - Bhagavan).

Lineage of Aryas:-
1.Sage Agastya(he married the great Lopadmudra - he had a daughter by name Rohini).

2.Sage Vashista(brother of Sage Agastya)

3.Sage Vishwamitra(he was the son of King Gadhi - he was called as Viswaratha - he married Rohini the daughter of Sage Agastya).


Sage Vashishta's Lineage:-
1.Sakthi.

2.Parasara

3.Krisna dvaipayana(Vedavyasa - he married Vatika the daughter of the great Master of Atharvan lore Sage Mahaatharvan Jaabali).

4.Suka

5.Blind Dhridrirashtr(he married Gandhari) - Kauravas

6.Pandu -(he married Prita/Kunti sister of Vasudeva - the powerful Yadava chief and the adopted daughter of King Kuntibhoj and also to Madri sister of Salya the king of Madra) Pandavas

7.Vidhur


Sage Viswamithra's lineage: -
1.Sunahshepa

2.Devadatta

I am a newcomer to this Forum. I am deeply impressed by the depth and width of knowledge of the participants--especially HH.
May I know how I can access the bharatavarsha site? Everytime I try to log on I get a notice that the site is FORBIDDEN !
In all Tamil Brahmin weddings a charade of the Bridegroom being intercepted on his way to Benares for further studies is being enacted. I have seen similar things in Tamil speaking Iyengars of Karnataka also. Is this practice prevalent throughout this country? I will be grateful for any information about this.
To my knowledge only gotra pravaras of three generations are being called out during Tamil Brahmin marriages nowadays. Were they reciting SEVEN generations of gotra-pravaras in days of yore?
Thanks

Hi,

I am new to this forum and I am amazed at the knowledge that you guys have.
I would like to know if anyone has heard of Sankethis. They are a particular sect of people, originally Tamil brahmins who migrated to Karnataka. Their dilect is a mixture of Tamil and Kannada.
I would like to know more about their style of wearing the nine yards saree and the kind of forehead mark that they wear. Any info about this will be appreciated.
Please do not give me anything from google because i have read all thats in there.
Anyone who is a sankethi / mysorean / has moved with these people, can give their personal observations .....

thanks in advance...

regards,
suman.

Does this mean that the current Maudgalya, Vatula and Shadamarshanas were actually kshatriyas ? So the pravarams under these gotras come in after these kshtriyas transformed into brahmins ?

Yes, you are talking about Kasi Yatra that's symbolic of an incident that could have happened centuries ago, where a bride groom overcome by vairagya (or quest of knowledge) leaves for Kasi, but was intercepted by the father-in-law-to-be and cajoled into accepting his daughter in marriage. Like most other part of the wedding ceremony, this too is just a ritual that's symbolic. Other such rituals include "Nelangu" - something that embarasses the 28 year old groom or the 25 year old bride now-a-days.


As a Sankritya, I callout three rishi names (Trayarishih) while people of Srivatsa gotra will call out Pancha-rishih (Five rishis). Do you mean this type of gotra pravaram or do you mean reading out the name of the groom's immediate parents, grand-parents and greatgrandparents?

HH garu, I have a question for you.... While in a discussion last nite, a group of people were comparing Gotra/Pravarams, and one Nair family had asked what their gotra was. I know of Brahmanas having Gotra from Rishis, and Kshatriyas go by Parampara or Kulam (Varshneya, RaguVamsham etc.) How do itharaah (others) trace back their lineage?

Sunderji, thanks.
Indeed I was referring to kasi yatra.
What I wanted to know was whether this practice is prevalent in all marriage ceremonies where the bride is given as a dAn-- throughout our country.
Also how I can access the bharatvarsha site. I keep getting a 'forbidden' notice every time I try to log in!
I am a bhAratvAja myself but I was referring to the kind of banns they are announcing just before the main function starts--loudly proclaiming the gotra-pravaras of both the bride and the groom. I have heard this being recited up to three generations only. I wanted to know whether it was being recalled up to seven generations.
Thanks for your response.
Chandramoulee

Rule 1: If you are performing a shrauta ritual then you shall name the purohita's gotra for the pravara recitiation if you do not have one of your own. This rule typically applies to kShatriyas and vaishyas. The brahmin must known his pravara to be considered valid barring exceptional cases.

Rule 2: Many of the non-dvijas have their own peculiar gotras that have no relationships with the dvija gotras. They observe the same exogamous rules with respect to their gotras as the dvijas. These peculiar gotras of theirs are not used in vedic shrauta rituals but may be used for laukIka religious practices.

While it is common belief that all non-dvijas are excluded from vedic rites this is not really so, because the iShukR^it and the niShada sthapati were some allowed non-dvijas. Of course there are numerous honorary kShatriya classes.


BTW the Bharatavarsha site will probably be discontinued by us. My friends (and me) who were maintaining it are hard pressed for time and we were unable to updated as originally planned. So we decided to stop the project for now. Though we may bring it back with a different cheaper hosting scheme.

In marriages the ancestors are announced for 7 generation if remembered.


|-------------------------------------------|



Daffodil change your usr id to meet the forum rules.

Yes the above have kShatriya male line ancestors. But they are called kevala bhArgava or kevala A~ngirasa gotras as all of them were absorbed via marriage into the bhArgava and A~ngirasa traditions. They are listed in the pravara khaNDas in the kevala categories,

HH
Any idea about the "poonula" gotra ? Its mine.
Poonul == the sacred thread.

Amarnath, I am not familiar with the origins of the gotra names amongst the kammas. There has been much debate about the origins of the Kammas, but all we can say is that the version in Tamil Nad originally came from Andra. May be you could collect the Kamma gotras and study their distributions- this may offer useful date. There is a genealogy claiming that Kamma-like castes are related the Kayastas. However, this link is again not well supported.

The Chenchus are a broad exogamous group that is sub-divided into various clans. They follow the ancient system in Hindu tradition of gotras, which represents the lineage and descent of clan members. There are 26 gotras found among the Chenchus and the various clans are identified by their gotra name. They never marry within the gotra or clan and intermarry other clan members. The wife bears the husband’s gotra after marriage.

I never would have imagined that there is Gotra pravara amongst the tribal population of one of the most ancient tribes of India.


http://www.peoplesof...enchu/index.jsp

Hi,



There is absolutely no truth in this myth. Other related myths that have been floating around is that - (a) Ramanuja converted number of itaras into brahmin fold (b) Thenkalais were those converts.

There is no truth in either of the claim. Some uninformed vadakalais use (b) against thenkalis in their polemics, but learned vadakalais wouldn't like the notion of (a) as it would entail Ramanuja tampering with dharma shastras, which he never did. Moreover, the vadakalai/thenkalai distinction didn't exist during Ramanuja times but crystallized few centuries later.

Having said this, I am aware of a section of people in a village called Kovilam, who being actually vahnians took up thread en masse and entered thenkalai fold. (Referred to in Diwan Bahadur Rangachari's Sri Vaishnava brahmans). The usual practice is the castes entering sri vaishnava fold retain their caste identity.



The above information is a joke, to put it mildly. Purukutsa and Trasadasyu were kshatriyas (most probably Ikshvakus). Trasadasyu actually means "he who makes the dasyus shake with fear". There is no relation between ShaDmarshanas (ShaTamarshanas ?!) and shaTakopa. Probably the SVs engaged in folk etymology by corrupting "shaDmarshana" to "shaTamarshana" to see a link to shaTakopa or nammazhvar.


It is unfortunate for the article to use the term "gotra". Adding pravara to the above is even more unfortunate! Clan exogamy, (which the dwijas follow using the gotra system) is a pan human practice. (I am lazy to pick up my anthropology book to list the tribes across the globe that follow this). In a nutshell, various endogamous tribes are divided into clans with their own totems and these clans follow exogamy. Usually the woman enters the clan of her husband after marriage.
So, the chenchus may as well be following clan exogamy -- but this in itself doesn't warrant a connection to "atri brhgu kutsa vasishTa gautama Agnirasa..." list.

Is anyone aware of Karandikar's "Hindu exogamy"? He seems to imply that the gotra names actually implies totemism (Kashyapa - tortoise, Bharadwaja - Sky lark, Vatsa - Calf etc.). So, in ancient days, anyone can enter a rishi's gotra. Karandikar cites a line in shatapatha brAhmaNa "He chooses the pravaras connected to the rishis..." --> implying the sacrificer had full liberty to choose the pravara rishis and hence he could choose any gotra he wanted

The historian K A N Shastri seems to agree with Karandikar in "Dravidans and Aryans - cultural contacts" that the "vedic" gotra exogamy was modelled after indigenous prototypes (as Iranians and Indo-Europeans didn't seem to have a gotra system), but sapinda exogamy is not.

My personal view is that, since the clan exogamy is found in most of the tribes across the globe (probably this is a convergent evolution), the vedic people may have converged to this system without external cultural contact.

Regards,
Giri

I heared people saying that Anybody(may or may not be a rishi) who lives to see Seven generations (Male?) can span off his own Gothra (meaning, Their generation will have a new Gothra by that man's name and older name will be discontinued)

Is that TRUE? Is this the reason why we have so many gothra?

Can anybody Clarify.

bengurion

From what I have understood Gotra is required only when performing religious rituals, hence I learnt my Gotra is Paulashya (is there anything more to it).

I am a Kshtriya/Rajput, I guess this is the Varna.

What is the relevance of Gotra in Practical life?

I tried to fill in the Gotra Online survey, ends up in an error on submission

Thanks in advance.

Sayvari

Paulashya is probably a corruption of paulastya gotra, which implies descent from Rshi pulastya. This comes under the Bhrgu family.

My sandhyAvandanam book lists 3 variations for the pravaras. Two are tryArsheya (3 Rshis) and one is panchArsheya (5 Rshis) :-

1. BhArgava, chyAvana, jAmadagnya
2. BhArgava, aurva, jAmadagnya
3. BhArgava, chyAvana, ApnavAna, aurva, baida

rAvaNa belonged to paulastya gotra. pulastya's son was visravas. His son was rAvana.

Rishi lineage according to Brihadarankya Upanishad:




Mine is Sanaga.

Brihadarankaya Upanishad

andariki namaskaram,
it is very interesting for the topic is touching the roots.There are ten brahmin catageries in India.
Panca goudas> goudiya(bengal),kaanya kubja(U.P & Haryana & Punjab & Rajasthan)maithila(Bihar),saraswata (M.P & North Maharashtra) and Kasmeera
Panca dravidas>dravida (TN & Kerala),karnataka,andhra,maharashtra and ghoorjara (Gujarat)
But these are speak about origins. Brahmins had been highly mobile from 4th century.So more indicaters are needed to find about the roots.Gotras and Sutras and Veda sakhas ,Nadus may help.
I am interested where my actual counsins are,with what outfits(sic)
My gotram is Maitreyasa and ekarsiya gotram.Vardhasva is the gotra karta.
thanking you sirs.

Hello, is there a Sanskrit word for our collective racial memory of being Bharatiyas or a Sanskrit word for our racial soul?

The word kula means clan/race, and also shakti/soul.

Are there any other words?

Thanks.

In above post of Aarya, there are multiple entries for Sage Sandilya.

1. What is the difference? Are there two different sages with same name, or there is some other reason?
2. My gotra is Sandilya and would like to know if there is a way to find which of the above Sandilya would be mine?
3. Within Sandilya gotra, I have seen intermarriages based upon certain sub-classification. Does anyone know about how, why?
4. Sandilya Bhakti Sutram - of the famed "athAto bhakti jigyAsA" - is that a smriti/shruti? Which of the above Shandilya Rishis is this from? What could be the approximate time line of its origination?
5. Should one be right in being proud on one's gotra? I feel proud on coming from the lineage which developed Bhaki-sutras :-)
6. Are gotras somehow cross-metrixed with varnas. e.g. same gotra can be/can not be shared by different varnas?

By the way here is one URL for accessing Sandilya Bhakti Sutra: Sutra

Do you know what your Pravara Rshis are?
They will help a lot in debugging the problem.

No. Will try to find.

Best of luck.

I had to struggle to unearth my Pravara Rshis.

Mine is tricky because it is listed under both Vasishtha and Angiras clans.

The "Gotra Pravara Manjari" book lists it as a special case.

Thanks to one of my relatives I finally managed to determine that it is part of the Vasistha clan.


We need make sure this kind of information does not become extinct due to carelessness or sheer apathy.

Actually, Mitradena, there is no conflict. Angirasas were also ancestors of the Parâshara Shâktyas, meaning that the Shâktyas accepted Angiras as an ancestor too. See Rgveda I.71.2 Pada AB a Sûkta of a Parâshara Shâktya saying:

viiLú cid drLhaá pitáro na ukthaír | ádriM rujann ángiraso ráveNa |

(pitáro naH) Our forefathers, (ángirasaH) the Angirasas, (ukthaíH) through their praise songs (rujan) have shattered (ádriM) the mountain-shaped clouds (ráveNa) by the sound, (viiLú cid drLhaá) even the firm stronghold;

Some other Angirasas, like the KrNvas (Paippalâda spelling) = KaNvas are also counted as a VasiShTha Pravara.

Dear Bodhi,

Teachers
"8. ShâNDilya from Kaushika and Gautama, 38. ShâNDilya from Kaishorya Kâpya" is a reference to (unrelated) teachers learning one from the other(s) within one Shâkhâ, the Vâjasaneya or Shukla Yajurveda.
They start from the latest teacher and end up with the earliest. They go back to the time of ParikShit I Kauravya (mentioned in the Rgveda Khilâni), thus at the very start of recollecting the Rc-Sâmam-Yajus and Chandas in a new Samhitâ.

ShâNDilya Gotra
This is placed with the Kashyapas in the Gotra-Pravara sections of the Kalpasûtras. But, looking closer we have this information in their section:
TryârSheya: Kashyapa-Avatsâra-ShâNDilya
So far, no problem, as Kashyapa is the main RShi, and Avatsâra a Kâshyapa descendant. But the third may not be a Kâshyapa, but is a matrmonially allied Pravara after which there is an "avaivâhika" status between the Avatsâras and ShâNDilyas.
In support that the third AarSheya Pravara may not be of the first or second, is when we notice the following within the Kashyapa section:
TryârSheya: Kashyapa-Avatsâra-VasiShTha ! VasiShTha is certainly not a Kashyapa, thus we get here the information that there is a matrimonial relation involved of two Gotras within certain Pravaras. [it is not improbable that the third AarSheya in both examples denotes an equation, perhaps supported further by the data below]

- My Tabla Guru, from the ShâNDilya Gotra, confirmed that they were certainly not Kashyapas.

- The PurâNas name the Purohita of king Dilîpa II KhaTvânga of Ayodhya as an Atharvanidhi VasiShTha, and also as ShâNDili (story of the kings Dilîpa II and Bhuvamanyu). The last name may have been his personal name.

- Matsya PurâNa places ShâNDili with the VasiShThas.




If individuals started with other professions, they may have remembered their Gotra-Pravara, but changed their VarNa.




One may be proud, but it is better as a descendant, follower or inspirated one by their teachings, to take their examples to develop further personally and socially. Our ancestors have sacrificed a lot to attain wisdom for the benefit of all. It's a waste to neglect what they wanted to pass to us.

Thanks for information ishwa.

What is the common practice? i.e. do we commonly find people of different varnas from same gotra/pravar? e.g. Kshatriys and Brahmins from lets say Shandilya, Gotama, Kashyap gotras?

Also I have heard some gotra names - especialy from some Vaishyas - which don't sound like Rishi names, like 'Goyal', 'Mittal' etc. Whats the reason? Are these gotra names, or actual gotras are something else but forgotten?

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Dear Bodhi, these are difficult questions. As the most attention was towards static = not changing Gotra-Pravara developments, we do not know too much.
Brahma and KShatra interchanged their functions more easily.

A glimpse can be caught perhaps, by the word Khattrî, of which the origin is KShatriya, but the profession became VaNij Vaishya.
There is more work needed to entangle the intricacies.

Names like Goyal and Mittal may come from individuals or some characteristics shared by the descendants. These are rather Kula than Gotra names. These Kulas do remember their Gotracharyas, even Shâkhâ, etc. Is this a sign that these Kulas once had RShi ancestry? I do not know. Bit it seems that indian society was more dynamic than is believed by some these days.

A person born as son of a professing Vipra, but himself not engaged in his profession, is merely in name a Vipra. If he starts a business or agriculture, and after him his descendants, where does he stand? As a descendant of one, he may count himself as a Vipra, but as an active VaNij he is within the Vaishya VarNa.

Indian society was complex, with multilevel dynamics. Like the indian mind having no problem functioning in western societies, while playing with Nirâkâra and Sâkara levels criss-crossed by Shaiva-vaiShNava-GâNapata-Shâktya concepts and rituals. This is probably too hard for many non-Indians.

The standard books are written by the last or their faithful indigenous followers who obstruct (other) Indians to tell their side or obstructing them to search for forgotten or rare phenomena, keeping respect.

Ishwa,

Very good posts.

I got some questions for you. But very busy now, so will ask you later.

Hey everyone,

Can anyone suggest or enlighten me on the lineage of Nath? They are Hindus, but anything about their gotras etc.

Regards

[username to be changed - Admin]

Nath is a family of spiritual sects originated from Hath Yogis. Some prominent Nath gurus have been Sri Goraksha Nath, Sri Matsyendra Nath, Sri Adi Nath etc. So I think Nath is a practice-based spiritiual following rather than a birth-based gotra/pravara etc. (which means one may become a Nath if wanted to and accepted by a Nath guru) Naths can be found all over India but prominently in Eastern-Northern UP, Haryana, Northern Maharashtra, W Bengal etc.

The Gosains consider their founder to have been Shankaracharya, the great apostle of the revival of the worship of Siva in Southern India , who lived between the eighth and tenth centuries. He had four disciples from whom the ten order of Gosai's are derived. These are commonly defined as follows
1. Tirtha (a shrine of pilgrimage) 2 Asharm{hermitage) 3. Ban or Van (the forest) 4 Aranya (forest) 5 Giri [Peak of mountain] 6. Parvat (a mountain) 7. Sagar (the ocean) 8 Saraswati (the Goddess of learning) 9. Bharthi (the Goddess of speech) 10. Puri ( a town)

Can anybody give me the gotras of these order's of Goswami samaj?

Can any one tell me about Jabali gotra or jabali rishi

Rishi Satyakama Jabala is mentioned in Chhandogya Upanishad. Cross-posting from another post:


Not sure if Jabali = Jabala.

My introduction in the traditional way:

Abhivadaye
Angirasa, Bhaarhaspatya, Bharadwaja Triyarishiye Pravaranvitha
Bharadwaja gotraha
Apasthamba sutraha
Yajushaakhadhyayi
Shri Kartik Sramana
Asmibhu

I'm a Vadama Iyer from Palakkad.
I heard somewhere that Bharadwaja is the most common gotra. Does it also mean that my particular pravara is the most common. Aren't there any other pravaras which originate from Angirasa-Bhaarhaspatya. Do everybody have Apasthamba sutra? What exactly does sutra signify?? Also thru my Abhivaday can it be traced where and when my family came from in the north.

Google book -
The Bharadvajas in Ancient India By Thaneswar Sarmah
On the Hindu sage Bharadvaja, his descendants, and their contributions to the practices in Hinduism.

Limited access available.

The Early Brahmanical System of Gotra and Pravara: A Translation of the Gotra-pravara-manjari,... By Purusottama Pandita
By Purusottama
Pandita
Published 1953
University Press
227 pages

Mudy ji thankyou very much. Without you I wouldn't know such books existed.

bharadvAja-s are the most frequent gotra amongst Telugu smArtas and vaDamAs, both of which are genetically close group of brAhmaNas.

They are not the most frequent group amongst various Maharashtra smArtas or differen groups of North Indian brahmins of the pa~ncha gauDa division. The bv-s are however fairly frequent amongst gauDa sArasvatas who originated amongst the pa~ncha-gauDa before moving south.

You cannot always say from your pravara when your ancestors moved south. In general there were 3 major waves of vaDamas. One prior to rAmAnuja the vaiShNava guru, a second during Moslem depredations in the 1300s and another during the southerward shift in vijayanagara when Hampi fell to the Moslems.

Common Jatis and Upjatis of Brahmins in India

(Not sure about accuracy. Have noticed some inaccuracies already. Just reproducing from one of Dr. Ambedkar's paper.)

3 major Brahmin classifications:
- Dravid Brahmin jatis
- Gauda Brahmin Jatis
- Other Brahmins

A) Dravid Brahmins

(1) The Maharashtrians
(2) The Andhras
(3) The Dravidians (proper)
(4) The Karnatakas
(5) The Gurjaras

1. THE MAHARASHTRA BRAHMINS

(1) The Deshasthas, (2) The Konkanasthas, (3) The Karhadas, (4) The Kanvas, (5) The Madhyandinas, (6) The Padhyas, (7) The Devarukhas, (8) The Palashas, (9) The Kirvantas, (10) The Tirgulas, (11) The Javalas, (12) The Abhiras, (13) The Savashas, (14) Kastas, (15) The Kunda Golakas, (16) The Randa Golakas, (17) The Brahmana-Jais, (18) The Soparas, (19) The Khistis, (20) The Huseinis, (21) The Kalankis, (22) The Maitrayaniyas, (23) The Varadis-Madhyandin-YaJ'ur-Vedi, (24) The Varadis-Madhyandin-Rig Vedi, (25) The Jhade. The Shenvis are further divided into nine sub-castes called (26) Narvankar, (27) Keloskar, (28) Bardeshkar, (29) Kudaldeshkar, (30) Pednekar, (31) Bhalavelekar, (32) Kushasthali, (33) Khadape and (34) Khajule.

2. THE ANDHRA BRAHMINS

(1) The Varnasalus, (2) The Kamarukubi, (3) The Karanakamulu, (4) The Madhyandians, (5) The Tailangas, (6) The Murakanadus, (7) The Aradhyas, (8) The Yajnavalkyas, (9) The Kasaranadu, (10) The Velandus, (11) The Venginadus, (12) The Vedinadus, (13) The Samavedis, (14) The Ramanujis, (15) The Madhavacharis, (16) The Niyogis.

3. THE TAMIL BRAHMINS

(1) The Rig-Vedis, (2) The Krishna Yajur-Vedis, (3) The Shukia Yajur-Vedis—Madhyandinas, (4) The Shukla Yajur-Vedis-Kanvas, (5) The Sama Vedis, (6) The Atharva, (9) The Vaishnavas, (10) The Vira Vaishnavas, (11) The Shri-Vaishnavas, (12) The Bhagvatas, (13) The Shaktas.

4. THE KARNATAKA BRAHMINS

(1) The Rig Vedis, (2) The Krishna Yajur-Vedis, (3) The Shukia Yajur-Vedis Madhyandinas, (4) The Shukla Yajur-Vedis Kanvas, (5) The Sama Vedis, (6) The Kume Brahmins and (7) The Nagara Brahmins.

5. THE GURJARA BRAHMINS
5.1 The Andichya Brahmins.
(1) Siddhpura Andichya, (2) Sihor Andichya, (3) Tolkiya Andhichya, (4) Kunbigor, (5) Inochigor, (6) Darjigor, (7) Grandhrapagor, (8) Koligor, (9) Marwadi Andichya, (10) Kachhi Andichya, (11) Vagdiya Andichya.

5.2 The Nagar Brahmins.
(12) The Vadanagar Brahmins, (13) The Vishalnagar Brahmins, (14) The Sathodra Brahmins, (15) The Prashnoras, (16) The Krishnoras, (17) The Chitrodas, (18) The Baradas. (19) Gujarathi Nagars, (20) Sorathi Nagars and (21) Nagars of other Towns.

5.3 The Girnar Brahmins.
(22) The Junagadhya Girnars, (23) The Chorvada Girnars, (24) The Ajakiyas.

5.4 The Mevadas Brahmins.
(25) The Bhata Mevadas, (26) The Trivadi Mevadas, (27) The Charosi Mevadas.

5.5 The Deshavala Brahmins.
(46) The Deshavala Brahman Surati.

5.6 The Rayakavala Brahmins.
(47) The Navas (new ones) and (48) The Mothas (old ones).

5.7 The Khedvala Brahmins.
(49) The Khedvala Bajas, (50) The Khedvala Bhitaras, (51) The Khedva Bajas, (52) The Khedva Bhitaras.

5.8 The Modha Brahmins.
(53) The Trivedi Modhas, (54) The Chaturvedi Modhas, (55) The Agihans Modhas, (56) The Tripal Modhas, (57) The Khijadiya Sanvana Modhas, (58) The Ekadashdhra Modhas, (59) The Tandulotha Modhas, (60) The Utanjaliya Modhas, (61) The Jethimal Modhas, (62) The Chaturvedi Dhinoja Modhas, (63) The Dhinoja Modhas.

5.9 The Shrimali Brahmins.
(64) The Marwadi Shrimali, (65) The Mevadi Shrimali, (66) The Kachhi Shrimali, (67) The Kathiavadi Shrimali, (68) The Gujarathi Shrimali. The Gujarathi Shrimali are further sub-divided into
(69) Ahamadabadi Shrimali, (70) Surati Shrimali, (71) Ghoghari Shrimali and (72) The Khambhati Shrimali. The Khambhati Shrimali are again sub-divided into: (73) Yajurvedi Khambhati Shrimali, (74) Samavedi Khambhati Shrimali.

5.10 The Chovisha Brahmins.
(75) Mota (Great ones), (76) Lahana (small ones).

5.11 The Sarasvata Brahmins.
(77) Sorathiya Sarasvata, (78) Sindhava Sarasvata.

5.12 Other Gujarata Brahmins:
(79) The Sachora Brahmins, (80) The Udambara Brahmins,
(81) The Narsipara Brahmins, (82) The Valadra Brahmins,
(83) The Pangora Brahmins, (84) The Nandodra Brahmins,
(85) The Vayada Brahmins, (86) The Tamil (or Dradvida) Brahmins,
(87) The Rodhavala Brahmins, (88) The Padmivala Brahmins,
(89) The Gomativala Brahmins, (90) The Itavala Brahmins,
(91) The Medhatavala Brahmins, (92) The Gayavala Brahmins,
(93) The Agastyavala Brahmins, (94) The Pretavala Brahmins,
(95) The Unevala Brahmins, (96) The Rajavala Brahmins,
(97) The Kanojiya Brahmins, (98) The Sarvariya Brahmins,
(99) The Kanoliya Brahmins, (100) The Kharkheliya Brahmins,
(101) The Parvaliaya Brahmins, (102) The Sorathiya Brahmins,
(103) The Tangamadiya Brahmins, (104) The Sanodiya Brahmins,
(105) The Motala Brahmins, (106) The Jhalora Brahmins,
(107) The Rayapula Brahmins, (108) The Kapila Brahmins,
(109) The Akshayamangala Brahmins, (110) The Gugli Brahmins,
(111) The Napala Brahmins, (112) The Anavala Brahmins,
(113) The Valmika Brahmins, (114) The Kalinga Brahmins,
(115) The Tailinga Brahmins, (116) The Bhargava Brahmins,
(117) The Malavi, (118) The Banduan Brahmins,
(119) The Bharathana Brahmins, (120) The Pushkarana Brahmins,
(121) The Khadayata Brahmins, (122) The Maru Brahmins,
(123) The Dahima Brahmins, (124) The Chovisa Brahmins,
(125) The Jambu Brahmins, (126) The Maratha Brahmins,
(127) The Dadhicha Brahmins, (128) The Lalata Brahmins,
(129) The Valuta Brahmins, (130) The Borshidha Brahmins,
(131) The Golavala Brahmins, (132) The Prayagvala Brahmins,
(133) The Nayakvala Brahmins, (134) The Utkala Brahmins,
(135) The Pallivala Brahmins, (136) The Mathura Brahmins,
(137) The Maithila Brahmins, (138) The Kulabha Brahmins,
(139) The Bedua Brahmins, (140) The Ravavala Brahmins,
(141) The Dashahara Brahmins, (142) The Karnatika Brahmins,
(143) The Talajiya Brahmins, (144) The Parashariya Brahmins,
(145) The Abhira Brahmins, (146) The Kundu Brahmins,
(147) The Hirayajiya Brahmins, (148) The Mastava Brahmins,
(149) The Sthitisha Brahmins, (150) The Predatvala Brahmins,
(151) The Rampura Brahmins, (152) The Jila Brahmins,
(153) The Tilotya Brahmins, (154) The Durmala Brahmins,
(155) The Kodva Brahmins, (156) The Hanushuna Brahmins,
(157) The Shevada Brahmins, (158) The Titraga Brahmins,
(159) The Basuladas Brahmins, (160) The Magmarya Brahmins,
(161) The Rayathala Brahmins, (162) The Chapila Brahmins,
(163) The Baradas Brahmins, (164) The Bhukaniya Brahmins,
(165) The Garoda Brahmins, (166) The Taporana Brahmins.

B) GAUDA BRAHMINS

5 main upjatis:
(1) The Sarasvata Brahmins,
(2) The Kanyakubja Brahmins,
(3) The Gauda Brahmins,
(4) The Utkala Brahmins,
(5) The Maithila Brahmins

1. THE SARASVATA BRAHMINS
The Sarasvata Brahmins fall into three territorial sections: Punjab, Kashmir, Sindh

1.1 The Sarasvatas of the Punjab
1.1.A Sarasvatas of the districts of Lahore, Arnritsar, Batala, Gurdaspur, Jalandar, Multan, Jhang and Shahpur:

(1) Navale, (2) Chuni, (3) Ravade, (4) Sarvaliye, (5) Pandit,
(6) Tikhe, (7) Jhingan, (8) Kumadiye, (9) Jetle, (10) Mohle or Mole,
(11) Tikhe-A'nde, (12) Jhingan-Pingan, (13) jetli-Petli,
(14) Kumadiye-Lumadiye, (15) Mohle-Bohle, (16) Bage,
(17) Kapuriye, (18) Bhaturiye, (19) Maliye, (20) Kaliye,
(21) Sanda, (22) Pathak, (23) Kural, (24) Bharadwaji,
(25) Joshi, (26) Shori, (27) Tiwadi, (28) Marud, (29) Datta,
(30) Mujhal, (31) Chhibar, (32) Bali, (33) Mohana, (34) Lava,
(35) Vaidya, (36) Prabhakar, (37) Shame-Potre, (38) Bhoja-Potre,
(39.) Singhe-Potre, (40) Vatte-Potre, (41) Dhannan-Potre,
(42) Dravade, (43) Gaindhar, (44) Takht Laladi, (45) Shama Dasi,
(46) Setpal (or Shetpal), (47) Pushrat, (48) Bharadvaji,
(49) Katpale, (50) Ghotke, (51) Pukarne.
(52) Diddi, (53) Shridhara, (54) Vinayaka, (55) Majju,
(56) Khindariye, (57) Harad, (58) Prabhakar, (59) Vasudeva,
(60) Parashara, (61) Mohana, (62) Panjan, (63) Tivara,
(64) Kapala, (65) Bharkhari, (66) Sodhi, (67) Kaijar,
(68) Sangad, (69) Bharadvaji, (70) Nage, (71) Makavar,
(72) Vashishtha, (73) Dangaval, (74) Jalap, (75) Tripane,
(76) Bharathe, (77) Bansale, (78) Gangahar, (79) Jotashi,
(80) Rikhi (or Rishi), (81) Mandar, (82) Brahmi, (83) Tejpal,
(84) Pal, (85) Rupal, (86) Lakhanpal, (87) Ratanpal,
(88) Shetpal, (89) Bhinde, (90) Dhami, (91) Chanan,
(92) Randeha, (93) Bhuta, (94) Rati, (95) Kundi, (96) Hasadhir,
(97) Punj, (98) Sandhi, (99) Bahoye, (100) Virad, (101) Kaland,
(102) Suran, (103) Sudan, (104) Ojhe, (105) Bramha-Sukul,
(106) Hariye, (107) Gajesu, (108) Bhanot, (109) Tinuni, (110) Jalli,
(111) Tole, (112) Jalap, (113) Chitchot, (114) Padhe or Pandhe,
(115) Marud, (116) Laladiye, (117) Tote, (118) Kusarit,
(119) Ramtal, (120) Kapale, (121) Masodare, (122) Ratniye,
(123) Chandan, (124) Churavan, (125) Mandahar,
(126) Madhare, (127) Lakarphar, (128) Kund, (129) Kardam,
(130) Dhande, (131) Sahajpal, (132) Pabhi, (133) Rati,
(134) Jaitke, (135) Daidriye, (136) Bhatare, (137) Kali,
(138) Jalpot, (139) Maitra, (140) Sankhatre, (141) Ludra,
(142) Vyasa, (143) Paitu, (144) Kirar, (145) Puje, (146) Isar,
(147) Latta, (148) Dhami, (149) Kalhan, (150) Madarkhamb,
(151) Bedesar. (152) Salvahan, (153) Dhande, (154) Marud,
(155) Bature, (156) Joti, (157) Soyari, (158) Tejpal, (159) Kuralpal,
(160) Kalas, (161) Jalap, (162) Tinmani, (163) Tanganivate,
(164) Jalpot, (165) Pattu, (166) Jasrava, (167) Jayachand,
(168) Sanwal, (169) Agnihotri, (170) Agraphakka, (171) Ruthade,
(172) Bhaji, (173)Kuchhi, (174)Saili, (175)Bhambi,
(176)Medu, (177) Mehad, (178) Yarnye, (179) Sangar,
(180) Sang, (181) Nehar, (182) Chakpaliye, (183) Bijraye,
(184) Narad, (185) Kutwal, (186) Kotpal, (187) Nabh, (188) Nad,
(189) Parenje, (190) Kheti, (191) A'ri, (192) Chavhe, (193) Bibde,
(194) Bandu, (195) Machhu, (196) Sundar, (197) Karadage,
(198) Chhibbe, (199) Sadhi, (200) Tallan, (201) Karddam,
(202) Jhaman, (203) Rangade, (204) Bhog, (205) Pande,
(206) Gande, (207) Pante, (208) Gandhe, (209) Dhinde,
(210) Tagale, (211) Dagale, (212) Lahad, (213) Tad, (214) Kayi,
(215) Ludh, (216) Gandar, (217) Mahe, (218) Saili, (219) Bhagi,
(220) Pande, (221) Pipar, (222) Jathee.

1.1.B Sarasvata Brahamins of Kangada and the adjacent Hill Country:

(1) Osdi, (2) Pandit Kashmiri, (3) Sotri, (4) Vedve, (5) Naga, (6) Dikshit,
(7) Misri Kashmiri, (8) Madihatu, (9) Panchkarn, (10) Raine, (11) Kurudu,
(12) A'Chariye.
(13) Chithu, (14) Panyalu, (15) Dumbu, (16) Dehaidu, (17) Rukhe,
(18) Pambar, (19) Gutre, (20) Dyabhudu, (21) Make,
(22) Prot (Purohita) Jadtotrotiye, (23) Visht Prot, (24) Padhe Saroj,
(25) Padhe Khajure, (26) Padhe Mahite, (27) Khajure, (28) Chhutwan,
(29) Bhanwal, (30) Rambe, (31) Mangrudiye, (32) Khurvadh, (33) Galvadh,
(34) Dangmar, (35) Chalivale.


1.1.C Sarasvata Brahmins of Dattarpur, Hoshyarpur and the adjacent Country:

(1) Dogre, (2) Sarmayi, (3) Dube, (4) Lakhanapal, (5) Padhe Dholbalvaiya,
(6) Padhe Ghohasniye, (7) Padhe Dadiye, (8) Padhe Khindadiya, (9) Khajurive.
(10) Kapahatiye, (11) Bharadhiyal, (12) Chaprohiye, (13) Makade,
(14) Kutallidiye, (15) Sarad, (16) Dagadu, (17) Vantade,(18) Muchle,
(19) Sammol,(20) Dhose,(21) Bhatol, (22) Rajohad, (23) Thanik,
(24) Panyal, (25) Chibbe, (26) Madote, (27) Misar, (28) Chhakotar,
(29) Jalreiye, (30) Lahad, (31) Sel, (32) Bhasul, (33) Pandit,
(34) Changhial, (35) Lath, (36) Sand, (37) Lai, (38) Gadottare, (39) Chirnol,
(40) Badhie, (41) Shridhar, (42) Patdu, (43) Juwal, (44) Maite, (45) Kakliye,
(46) Tak, (47) Jhol, (48) Bhadoe, (49) Tandik, (50) Jhummutiyar,
(51) A'l, (52) Mirat, (53) Mukati, (54) Dalchallie, (55) Bhatohaye,
(56) Tyahaye, (57) Bhatare

1.2 The Sarasvatas of Kashmir
There are two sub-sections of the Sarasvatas of Kashmir.

1.2.A) Kashmiri Pandits

(1) Kaul, (2) Rajdan, (3) Guriti, (4) Jitish, (5) Dar, (6) Trakari,
(7) Mujhi, (8) Munshi, (9) Butal, (10) Javi, (11) Bajai, (12) Rei,
(13) Hundo, (14) Dipti, (15) Chhichvali, (16) Rugi, (17) Kall,
(18) Sum, (19) Hanji, (20) Hastivali, (21) Mutu, (22) Tikku,
(23) Gais, (24) Gadi, (25) Brari, (26) Ganj, (27) Vangan,
(28) Vagana, (29) Bhut, (30) Bhairava, (31) Madan, (32) Dina,
(33) Shargal, (34) Hakchar, (35) Hak, (36) Kukar, (37) Chhatari,
(38) Saunpuri, (39) Matti, (40) Khush, (41) Shakdar,
(42) Vaishnava, (43) Kotar, (44) Kak, (45) Kachari, (46) Tote,
(47) Saraph, (48) Gurah, (49) Thanthar, (50) Khar, (51) Thaur,
(52) Teng, (53) Saiyad, (54) Trupuraya, (55) Muthi, (56) Saphai,
(57) Bhan, (58) Vanya, (59) Garial, (60) Thapal, (61) Nauri,
(62) Masaldan, (63) Mushran, (64) Turki, (65) Photedar,
(66) Kharu, (67) Karbangi, (68) Bhath, (69) Kichilu, (70) Chhan,
(71) Mukdam, (72) Khapari, (73) Bulaki, (74) Kar, (75) Jelali,
(76) Saphayu, (77) Batphali, (78) Hukhi, (79) Kukpari, (80) Kali,
(81) Jari, (82) Ganj, (83) Kim, (84) Mundi, (85) Jangal, (86) Jati,
(87) Rakhyas, (88) Bakayi, (89) Geri, (90) Gari, (91) Kali,
(92) Panji, (93) Bangi, (94) Sahib, (95) Belab, (96) Rayi,
(97) Galikarap, (98) Chan, (99) Kababi, (100) Yachh,
(101) Jalpuri, (102) Navashahari, (103) Kisi, (104) Dhusi,
(105) Garnkhar, (106) Tholal, (107) Pista, (108) Badam,
(109) Trachhal, (110) Nadir, (111) Lidarigari, (112) Pyal,
(113) Kabi, (114) Chhatri, (115) Vanti, (116) Vatlilu, (117) Khari,
(118) Vas, (119) Lati, (120) Sabanj, (121) Dandi, (122) Raval,
(123) Misari, (124) Sibbi, (125) Singari, (126) Mirje,
(127) Mal, (128) Variki, (129) Jan, (130) Lutari, (131) Parim, (132) Hali,
(133) Nakaib, (134) Main, (135) Ambaradar, (136) Ukhal, (137) Kanth,
(138) Bali, (139) Jangali, (140) Duli, (141) Parava, (142) Harkar,
(143) Gagar, (144) Pandit, (145) Jari, (146) Langi, (147) Mukki,
(148) Bihi, (149) Padaur, (150) Pade, (151) Jand, (152) Teng,
(153) Tund, (154) Drabi, (155) Dral, (156) Phambbi, (157) Sajavul,
(158) Bakhshi, (159) Ugra, (160) Nichvi, (161) Pathan, (162) Vichari,
(163) Unth, (164) Kuchari, (165) Shal, (166) Babi, (167) Makhani,
(168) Labari, (169) Khanya, (170) Khanyakati, (171) Shah,
(172) Pir, (173) Khurdi, (174) Khunki, (175) Kalposh, (176) Pishan,
(177) Bishan, (178) Bul, (179) Choki, (180) Chak, (181) Rai,
(182) Priti, (183) Pati, (184) Kichili, (185) Kahi, (186) Jiji, (187) Kilmak,
(188) Salman, (189) Kadalbaju, (190) Kandahari, (191) Bali,
(192) Manati, (193) Bankhan, (194) Hakim, (195) Garib,
(196) Mandal, (197) Manjaha, (198) Shair, (l99) Nun, (200) Teli,
(201) Khalasi, (202) Chandra, (203) Gadir, (204) Jarabi, (205) Sihari,
(206) Kalvit, (207) Nagari, (208) Mungvuch, (209) Khaibari,
(210) Kulli, (211) Kabi, (212) Khosa, (213) Durani, (214) Tuli, (215) Garib,
(216) Gadi, (217) Jati, (218) Rakhsas, (219) Harkar, (220) Grad,
(221) Vagari


1.2.B) Sarasvata Brahamans of Jammu, Jasrota and the neighbouring Hill Country:

(1) Amgotre, (2) Thappe, (3) Dube, (4) Sapoliye Padhe, (5) Badiyal,
(6) Kesar, (7) Nadh, (8) Khajure Prahot, (9) Jamval Pandit, (10) Vaidya,
(11) Lava, (12) Chibar, (13) aliye, (14) Mohan, (15) Bambhaval (16) Raine, (17) Satotre, (18) Katotre, (19) Lalotre, (20) Bhangotre,
(21) Samnotre, (22) Kashmiri Pandit, (23) Pandhotre, (24) Vilhanoch,
(25) Badu, (26) Kernaye Pandit, (27) Danal Padhe, (28) Mahite,
(29) Sudhraliye, (30) Bhatiad, (31) Puroch, (32) Adhotre, (33) Mishra,
(34) Parashara, (35) Bavagotre, (36) Mansotre, (37) Sudathiye (38) Sudan, (39) Sukhe, (40) Bhure, (41) Chandan, (42) Jalotre,
(43) Nabhotre, (44) Khadotre, (45) Sagdol, (46) Bhuriye,
(47) Baganachhal, (48) Rajuliye, (49) Sangde, (50) Munde,
(51) Surnachal, (52) Ladhanjan, (53) Jakhotre, (54) Lakhanpal,
(55) Gauda Purohita, (56) Shashgotre, (57) Khanotre,
(58) Garoch, (59) Marotre, (60) Upadhe, (61) Khindhaiye Padhe,
(62) Kalandari, (63) Jarad, (64) Udihal, (65) Ghode,
(66) Basnotre, (67) Barat, (68) Chargat, (69) Lavanthe,
(70) Bharangol, (71) Jaranghal, (72) Guhaliye, (73) Dhariancha,
(74) Pindhad, (75) Rajuniye, (76) Badakulive, (77) Sirkhandiye,
(78) Kirpad, (79) Balli, (80) Salurn, (81) Ratanpal, (82) Banotre,
(83) Yantradhari, (84) Dadorich, (85) Bhaloch, (86) Chhachhiale,
(87) Jhangotre, (88) Magdol, (89) Phaunphan, (90) Saroch,
(91) Gudde, (92) Kirle, (93) Mansotre, (94) Thammotre,
(95) Thanmath, (96) Bramiye, (97) Kundan, (98) Gokuliye Gosain,
(99) Chakotre, (100) Rod, (101) Bargotre, (102) Kavde,
(103) Magdiyaliye, (104) Mathar, (105) Mahijiye, (106) Thakure Purohita,
(107) Galhal, (108) Cham, (109) Rod, (110) Labhotre, (111) Redathiye,
(112) Patal, (113) Kamaniye, (114) Gandhargal, (115) Prithvipal,
(116) Madhotre, (117) Kambo, (118) Sarmayi, (119) Bachhal,
(120) Makhotre, (121) Jad, (122) Batialiye, (123) Kudidab,
(124) Jambe, (125) Karanathiye, (126) Suthade, (127) Sigad,
(128) Garadiye, (129) Machhar, (130) Baghotre, (131) Sainhasan,
(132) Utriyal, (133) Suhandiye, (134) Jhindhad, (135) Battal,
(136) Bhainkhare, (137) Bisgotre, (138) Jhalu, (139) Dabb,
(140) Bhuta, (141) Kathialu, (142) Paladhu, (143) Paladhu,
(144) Jakhotre, (145) Pange, (146) Solhe, (147) Suguniye,
(148) Sanhoch, (149) Duhal, (150) Bando, (151) Kanungo,
(152) Jhavdu, (153) Jhaphacu, (154) Kaliye, (155) Khaphankho.

1.3 The Sarasvatas of Sindh

The Sarasvatas of Sindh are sub-divided as follows:
(1) Shikarpuris, (2) Barovis, (3) Ravanjahis, (4) Shetpalas
(5) Kuvachandas, and (6) Pokharana.

2. THE KANYAKUBJA BRAHMINS
The Kanuakubjas take their name from the town Kanoj which was the capital of the Empire. They are also called Kanoujas. There are two denominations of the Kanyakubja Brahamins. One is called the Sarajupari or Sarvariyas and the other is called the Kanyakubjas. The Sarvariyas got their name from the river Saryu to the east of which they are principally found. They are a provincial offset from the Kanaujas, with whom they do not now intermarry. The sub-divisions among the Sarvariyas are generally the same as those found among the Kanaujas. It is therefore enough to detail the sub-divisions among the Kanaujas. There are ten divisions of the Kanyakubja Brahmins:

(1) The Mishra, (2) The Shuklas, (3) The Tiwaris, (4) The Dubes,
(5) The Pathaks. (6) The Pande, (7) The Upadhya, (8) The Chaubes,
(9) The Dikshitas, (10) The Vajapeyis.

2.1. THE MISHRAS
(1) The Madhbani, (2) The Champaran, (3) The Patlal or Patlayala,
(4) The Ratanvala, (5) The Bandol, (6) The Matol or Matevala,
(7) The Katariya of the same Veda, (8) The Nagariya of the Vatsa Gotra,
(9) The Payasi of the Vatsa Gotra, (10) The Gana,
(11) The Teunta or the Tevanta, (12) The Marjani, (13) The Gurha,
(14) The Markara, (15) The Jignya, (16) The Parayana, (17) The Pepara,
(18) The Aterva or Atharva, (19) The Hathepara, (20) The Suganti,
(21) The Kheta, (22) The Grambasi, (23) The Birha, (24) The Kausi,
(25) The Kevati, (26) The Raisi, (27) The Bhahajiya, (28) The Belva,
(29) The Usraina, (30) The Kodiya, (31) The Tavakpuri, (32) The Jimalpuri,
(33) The Shringarpuri, (34) The Sitapuri, (35) The Putavha,
(36) The Sirajpuri, (37) The Bhampuri, (38) The Terka,
(39) The Dudhagaumi, (40) The Ratnapuri, (41) The Sunhanla.

2.2 SHUKLAS

(1) The Khakhayijkhor named from two villages,
(2) The Marnkhor named from two villages, (3) The Tipthi,
(4) The Bhedi, (5) The Bakaruva, (6) The Kanjahi, (7) The Khandail,
(8) The Bela, (9) The Change the Avasthi, (10) TheTevarasi Parbhakar,
(11) The Mehuliyar, (12) The Kharbahiya, (13) The Chanda,
(14) The Grga, (15) The Gautami, (16) The Parasa, (17) TheTara,
(18) The Barikhpuri, (19) The Karyava, (20) The Ajmadgadhya,
(21) The Pichaura, (22) The Masauvas, (23) The Sonthianva,
(24) The Aukin, (25) The Bir, (26) The Gopinath.

2.3. TIWARI
(1) The Lonakhar, (2) The Lonapar, (3) The Munjauna, (4) The Mangraich,
(5) The Jhunadiya, (6) The Sohgaura, (7) The Tara, (8) The Gorakhpuriya,
(9) The Daurava, (10) Pendi, (11) The Sirjam, (12) The Dhatura,
(13) The Panauli, (14) The Nadauli or Tandauli, (15) The Burhiyabari,
(16) The Gurauli, (17) The Jogiya, (18) The Dikshita, (19) The Sonaura,
(20) The Agori, (21) The Bhargava, (22) The Bakiya, (23) The Kukurgariya,
(24) The Dama, (25) The Gopala, (26) The Govardhana, (27) The Tuke,
(28) The Chattu, (29) The Shivali, (30) The Shakharaj, (31) The Umari,
(32) The Manoha, (33) The Shivarajpur, (34) The Mandhna,
(35) The Sape, (36) The Mandan Tirvedi, (37) The Lahari Tirvedi,
(38) The Jethi Tirvedi.

2.4. DUBEY
(1) The Kanchani, (2) The Singhva, (3) The Belava, (4) The Parava,
(5) The Karaiya, (6) The Bargainya, (7) The Panchani, (8) The Lathiahi,
(9) The Gurdvan, (10) The Methiber, (11) The Barhampuriya,
(12) The Singilava, (13) The Kuchala, (14) The Munjalva, (15) The Paliya,
(16) The Dhegava, (17) The Sisra, (18) The Sinani, (19) The Kudavarye,
(20) The Kataiya, (21) The Panva.

2.5. PATHAKS
(1) The Sonaura, (2) The Ambatara, (3) The Patakhavaliya,
(4) The Dhigavach, (5) The Bhadari.

2.6. PANDEY
(1) The Tirphala or Triphala, (2) The Jorava, (3) The Matainya,
(4) The Toraya, (5) The Nakchauri, (6) The Parsiha, (7) The Sahankol,
(8) The Barhadiya, (9) The Gegas, (10) The Khoriya, (11) The Pichaura,
(12) The Pichaura Payasi, (13) The Jutiya or Jatya, (14) The Itar or Intar,
(15) The Beshtaul or Beshtavala, (16) The Charpand, (17) The Sila,
(18) The Adhurj, (19) The Madariya, (20) The Majgaum,
(21) The Dilipapar, (22) The Payhatya, (23) The Nagav, (24) The Talava,
(25) The Jambu.

2.7. UPADHYAY
(1) The Harainya or Hiranya, (2) The Devarainya, (3) The Khoriya,
(4) The Jaithiya, (5) The Dahendra, (6) The Gorat, (7) The Ranisarap,
(8) The Nizamabad, (9) The Dudholiya, (10) The Basgava.

2.8. CHAUBES
(1) The Nayapuras, (2) The Rargadis, (3) The Chaukhar, (4) The Katayas,
(5) The Rampuras, (6) The Paliyas, (7) The Hardaspuras, (8) The Tibaiyas,
(9) The Jamaduvas, (10) The Gargeya.

2.9. DIKSHITAS
(1) The Devagaum, (2) The Kakari, (3) The Nevarshiya, (4) The Anter,
(5) The Sukanta, (6) The Chaudhari, (7) The Jujatvatiyas.

2.10. VAJAPEYEE
(1) The Unche, or the High, (2) The Niche or the Low.

2.11 Other isolated Kanyakubjas
(1) The Samdariya, (2) The Tirguvati, (3) The Bhaurha, (4) The Kabisa,
(5) The Kevati, (6) The Chandravala, (7) The Kusumbhiya,
(8) The Bisohya, (9) The Kanhali, (10) The Khajuvai, (11) The Kisirman,
(12) The Paihtiya, (13) The Masonad, (14) The Bijara, (15) The Ansnaura.

3. THE GAUDA BRAHMINS
The Gauda Brahmins derive their name from the Province and (now ruined) city of Gauda, for long the capital of Bihar and Bengal (the seat of the Angas and Vangas or Bangas). The subdivisions among the Gauda Brahmins are very considerable in number. The most conspicuous of them are the following:

(1)The Gaudas or Kevala Gaudas, (2)Adi-Gaudas,
(3) Shukiavala Adi-Gaudas, (4) Ojhas, (5) Sanadhya Gauda,
(6) Chingalas, (7) Khandevalas, (8) Daymias, (9) Shri-Gaudas,
(10) Tamboli Gaudas, (11) Adi-Shri Gaudas, (12) Gurjar Gaudas,
(13) Tek Bara Gaudas, (14) Chamar Gaudas, (15) Hariyana Gaudas,
(16) Kirtanya Gaudas, (17) Sukul Gaudas.

4. THE UTKAL BRAHMINS
Utkal is the ancient name of Orissa and Utkal Brahmins means Brahmins of Orissa.
(1) The Shashani Brahmins, (2) The Shrotriya Brahmins,
(3) The Panda Brahmins, (4) The Ghatiya Brahmins,
(5) The Mahasthana Brahmins, (6) The Kalinga Brahmins.

The Shashani Brahmins have the following sub-divisions.
(1) The Savanta, (2) The Mishra, (3) The Nanda, (4) The Pate,
(5) The Kara, (6) The Acharya, (7) The Satapasti, (8) The Bedi,
(9) The Senapati, (10) The Parnagrahi, (11) The Nishank,
(12) The Rainipati.

The Shrotriya Brahmins have the four following sub-divisions:
(1) Shrotriyas, (2) Sonarbani, (3) Teli, (4) Agrabaksha

5. THE MAITHILYA BRAHMINS
The Maithilya Brahmins derive their designation from Mithila, an ancient division of India and which includes a great portion of the modern districts of Tirhut, Saran, Purnea and also parts of the adjacent tracts of Nepal. The following are the sub-divisions of the Maithilya Brahmins:

(1) The Ojhas, (2) The Thakurs, (3) The Mishras, (4) The Puras,
(5) The Shrotriyas, (6) The Bhuiharas.

Of these the Mishras have the following sub-sections:
(1) The Chandharis, (2) The Rayas, (3) The Parihastas, (4) The Khanas,
(5) The Kumaras.

C) OTHER BRAHMINS

1. OTHER BRAHMINS OF SOUTH INDIA
(1) The Konkani Brahmins
(2) The Hubu ,
(3) The Gaukarna ,
(4) The Havika ,
(5) The Tulva ,
(6) The Amma Kodaga ,
(7) The Nambudri

The Nambudri Brahmins are the principal group of Brahmins living in Malabar. Besides the Nambudris there are also other sections of Brahmins. They are:
(1) The Pottis, (2) The Muttadus, (3) The Fledus, (4) The Ramnad-writ Parasahas, (5) The Pattaras, (6) The Ambalvasis.

2. RAJPUT BRAHMINS
The upjatis of Rajput Brahmins not mentioned in the list of Gurjar Brahmins are:
(1) The Shrimalis Brahmins, (2) The Sachoda Brahmins,
(3) The Pallivalar Brahmins, (4) The Nandanas Brahmins,
(5) The Pushakars Brahmins, (6) The Pokhar Sevakas Brahmins,
(7) The Medatvala, (8) The Parikha Brahmins, (9) The Lavanas Brahmins,
(10) The Dakotas Brahmins, (11) The Garudiyas Brahmins,
(12) The Acharjas, (13) The Bura Brahmins, (14) The Kapidas,
(15) The Dahimas, (16) The Khandelvalas, (17) The Divas,
(18) The Sikavadas, (19) The Chamatvalas, (20) The Marus,
(21) The Shrivantas, (22) The Abhiras, (23) The Bhartanas,
(24) The Sanacadas, (25) The Vagadis, (26) The Mewadas,
(27) The Rajgurus, (28) The Bhats, (29) The Charanas.

Full of inaccuracies and errors. At best it can be considered an inaccurate list of jatis reported in brahmins.

Dhanyawaad Hauma Hamiddha Ji. Is it just hopeless, or can it be fixed with little effort? Any particular section with most errors or is it all over? (I have reviewed Gauda Kanyakubja/Sarayuparin list - that appeared accurate)

Many parts are hopeless and so is the organization. Many the names are correct but that is about it. If we take the Tamil Nad brahmins its useless. R^igvedi yajurvedi etc are not different sects or types of brahmins. They are just the vedic shakhAs which are studied and in the same family you may see different shakhas by marriage (though they are patrilineally inherited).

Even north Indian list is full of inaccuracies. e.g. Sodhi are jat. It is a collection of last name. It means Dr. Ambedkar was not clear about jati and varna.

Mudy aren't they Khatri?

From what I know all the 10 Sikh Gurus come from the Sodhis and the Bedis and they were all Khatri.

There are some Khatri, but majority are jat / Jatt

This google search Link confirms plus Matrimonial ads solidify.



Dhose, Padhe or Pande are those who normally come for bhoj in North India.

Acharya Hazari Prasad Dwivedi mentions a very interesting thing in the preface of one of his books published around 1930. Translation mine.

Further from the same book:

This post has been edited due to obscene language and slurs. If you want to continue posting desist from such usage.
-Moderators

HH-ji you have enlightened us in so many ways, that I think samidha and jalam in our hands are very much in order, as someone suggested before.

but one more question.



I was trying to look up about Sandilya gotra in Sri Skanda Purana. Above image is from Bramhakhandam, dharmaranyam, gyAti-bheda-gotra-devi-varNanam -adhyayam 39, sthanam 49, shloka 257-260.

It lists 5 pravar R^shi-s of Sandilya gotra:
bhArgava,
chyAvana,
apnavAna,
aurvava,
jAmadagnya.

But in post 13, the two variants mentioned of (unrelated?) Sandilya streams dont tally with any of these...

Sandilya 1) Kasyapa,Aavatsaara,Daivala
Sandilya 2) Kasyapa,Aavatsaara,Sandilya

besides, in one other post, these above five are listed under Vatsasa gotram.

1. Which (or both?) is correct?
2. Based upon your studies, do you find all gotra-pravara descriptions in different sources tally? Or do they some time conflict?
3. above mentions yakshiNi as devi for Sandilya gotra(s)?
4. heavy body, large belly, lengthy ears, long arms.... ? (Likewise this text is a most detailed chapter about various gotras and lakshaNa-s of their respective gaNa.)

where did I go wrong?

Bodhi-ji to give a quick answer- The first list is wrong. None of the authoritative sources list shANDilya as a bhArgava. He is a kAshyapa of the Avatsara lineage. If one is in doubt one has to consult the vedic sources on this matter- they supersede purANas on this matter. The lists in the kalpa sUtra-s were all collected together into a text called gotra-pravara-manjari and another called gotra nibandha. These lists are unanimous in declaring shANDilya-s as kAshyapa-s. This is also confirmed by whatever inscriptions of shANDilya I have located to date. Likewise, the bhR^igu vaMsha-s do not give any shANDilya pravara. The list in the matsya-purANa is more accurate. I believe these mistakes in the purANa-s come from scribal errors or errors of sUta-s unfamiliar with the brahminical gotra system.

I am yet to complete reading you translation on the setu tIrtha- sorry.

Hauma Hamiddhaji, its immediate objective is met, so no hurry at all, please take your time.

Thanks for the guidance.

I do:

Abhivadaye vashista maitra varuna koundinya traya risheya pravaranvita:
Koundinya Gotra Apasthambha sutra yajushakha adhyay ..

How far back my traits go?

HH, my gotra is kutsa and the pravara is

harita ambareesha youvanashva gomadhwa kutsa pancharisheya.

I couldn't find the pravara anywhere. Do you have more info on it?

Thanks!

Hello
I wonder if anyone can help me with a query.
I am a Saraswat Brahmin who originates from Himachal Pradesh.
My gotra is Gautama and i have seen a few times in matrimonials the word "Jalpot" next to this gotra. I also see that in the earlier post, listing punjabi Brahmin saraswat names, it is listed at number 138.
I would be greatful for any infomation about the connection.
Regards
Vedam