http://vinaymangal.c...ctimetravel.pdf

The Age of Gemini

The Age of Gemini (c.6000 - c.4000) corresponded to the flourishing period of early Hinduism. It was under this sign that Rama, the seventh incarnation of Vishnu was manifested by the birth of the two pair of brothers: Rama and Lakshmana on the one hand, Satrughna and Bharata on the other. Rama Himself had twin sons: Lav and Kush (in harmony with the name of the constellation where the Sun was at that time.) Lav went to Russia from this we get the name of Slav. The other son, Kush went to China, hence we get the name Kushan. These two divine principles were also incarnated as Buddha and Mahavira, then as Adi Shankaracharya and Gnyaneshwara. In other Avatars they were Hassan and Hussein the sons of Fatima and Hazrat Ali . . . Rama incarnated during the Treta Yuga when the fourth chakra (Adi Anahathh) was opened in Virata. Anahathh is an important centre of the human being since it is here (on the left side, at the heart level) where the individual Spirit or the Self resides. "For where your treasure is, there also will your heart be" Jesus said (Luke 12:34.)

The Age of Taurus

The Age of Taurus (c.4000 - c.2000 B.C.). The aeon governing this age was Krishna, the eight Avatar, the Lord of the cows (Govinda.) The age stayed under the sign of the bull (Apis, or sacred bull Mnevis of Helipolis, identified to Ra), of the holy cow (Hathor in Egypt, surahbhi or Kamadhenu in India or may be worshipped in many spiritual cultures), or the golden calf in the polytheistic beliefs (see Exodus 32:4), preceding the Judaic monotheism. Krishna was said to have lived at the end of Dvapara Yuga (Encyclopaedia Universalis, Paris 1968, vol. 9, p.711) considered by some to have ended in the year 3102 B.C. (Zimmer, quoted work.) According to tradition, Krishna lived in the fourth millennium B.C. (La grande encyclopedie, H. Lamirault et Co., Paris, vol. 21, p.647.) During his time the fifth chakra (Adi Vishuddhi) of the Cosmic Being was enlightened.

The Age of Aries

The Age of Aries (c.2000 - 1 B.C.) was characterized by the establishment of the monotheistic Judaism through great spiritual personalities like Abraham (19th century B.C.) and Moses (13th century B.C.). Generally, this period was dominated by the manifestation of the universal principle of the spiritual master (Adi Guru Dattatreya.) Indeed, before the Christian era, Zarathustra incarnated (7th or 6th or even 10th century according to some opinions), Confucius and Lao-Tse (6th century), Socrates (5th century), alongside with the two great Jewish prophets (see chapt. X.) The symbol of the ram (or the Passover lamb) appeared as an object of sacrifice instead of worship, as a reaction against the belief of the previous age. That could be illustrated by the cult of Mithra who stabbed the mythological bull.

The Age of Pisces

The Age of Pisces (A.D. 1 - c.2000) during which Christianity appeared and spread out. The fish was known to have been the secret sign used by the early Christians to identify each other. The Greek word Ichtus (=fish) was made up of the following phrase capitals (acrostic): Iesous Christos Theou Uios Soter (=Jesus Christ Son of God, the Saviour.) In Hinduism it was also the symbol of the Saviour (Vishnu's first incarnation in the shape of a fish saved Manu from the flood)...

Similar to Mahavishnu, Jesus represented the ninth Avatar, who opened the Agnya chakra within the Cosmic Being. The reflection of this chakra at the microcosmic human level is situated in the centre of the forehead where the left channel (Ida nadi) and the right channel (Pingala nadi) form a subtle crossing. From an anatomical point of view, this is the place of:

* i) the chiasma opticalis (optical nerve crossing), corresponding to the anterior aspect of the chakra (front Agnya);

* ii) the decussatio pyramidum (crossing of the motor nuclei fibres of the spinal nerves for the upper limb and upper trunk and for the lower limb and lower trunk respectively), corresponding to the posterior aspect of the chakra (back Agnya.)


The three channels cross at the Agnya which represents the most narrow way for the Kundalini to pass through. It is the "narrow gate" that Jesus said about: "Strive with earnestness to enter through the narrow door, for many, I say, will seek to enter and will not be able" (Luke 13:24.) "Enter through the narrow gate" (Matthew 7:13.) Jesus revealed Himself as the Master of the Agnya chakra: "I am the door; if any one enter in by Me, he shall be saved" (John 10.9.) He will be saved because he will be able to reach the end, of the spiritual ascent, Sahasrara (the Kingdom of Heavens the synthesis of all chakras, where the individual Spirit joins with the Universal Spirit - God.)

The Mahabharata (14.2784) says that the gate of heaven is very small and narrow. It cannot be seen by those without any sense and blinded by the vain illusions of this world. Even those who can see well, who see the way and want to enter, will find the door locked and hard to open. Its heavy bolts are pride, lust, greed and debauchery. Jesus said to the Pharisees: "The kingdom of God does not come with observation" (Luke 17:20.) Schmemaan wrote: "For the early Christians the all-encompassing reality and the terrific newness of their belief was precisely that the Kingdom had drawn near and though unseen, it had already been there, among the people, illuminating and working in the world."

The Agnya chakra controls mental processes. Maitrayana Upanishad says (6:34) that the thoughts are the only cause of the cycle of birth and death; man, therefore should endeavour to purify his thoughts. A man is what he thinks: this is the ancient secret. The same idea was expressed by Guatama Buddha in the first line of the Dhammapada: All that we are is the result of what we have thought, is based on our thoughts, and made out of our thoughts. That is why Yogis attach such a great importance to thought detachment and getting into the "thoughtless awareness" or Nirvichara Samadhi; the real state of meditation enabling the union (Yoga.)

The Age Of Aquarius

The Age of Aquarius (c.2000 ) starts at the dawn of Satya Yuga. The beginning of this age was estimated by various calculations around the year 2000. Some astrologers believe that mankind will step out of the mystical age of Pisces right into the luminous age of Aquarius between 2000 and 2050, which means the end of superstitions and of dogmatic religions (apud Bruno Wurtz.) It is not without interest to go back to the Ahmadiya Movement of Islam speaking about Mahdi's appearance on the Earth. We shall quote here Gibb and Kramer (Shorter Encyclopaedia of Islam, p.24): "To believe in His as the Second or the Promised Messiah is an article of faith, because first of all His coming early in the 14th century of the Hidjra was predicted by Muhammad." Or, Hidjra (Hegira), the starting point of the Muhammadan period was the 20th of September, 622 and that gives us the date close to the end of the year 1922 maybe the beginning of the year 1923 for the start of the new era.

2012 in brief

The Mayan civilization of Central America was and is the most advanced in relation to time-science knowledge. Their main calendar is the most accurate on the planet. It has never erred. The Mayan fifth world finished in 1987. The sixth world starts in 2012. So we are currently "between worlds"

1. Humanity and Planet Earth are currently going through a huge change or shift in consciousness and reality perception.

2. The Mayan civilization of Central America was and is the most advanced in relation to time-science knowledge. Their main calendar is the most accurate on the planet. It has never erred. They actually have 22 calendars in total, covering the many timing cycles in the Universe and Solar System. Some of these calendars are yet to be revealed.

3. The Mayan fifth world finished in 1987. The sixth world starts in 2012. So we are currently "between worlds". This time is called the "Apocalypse" or revealing. This means the real truth will be revealed. It is also the time for us to work through "our stuff" individually and collectively.

4. The Mayan sixth world is actually blank. This means it is up to us, as co-creators, to start creating the new world and civilization we want now.

5. The Mayans also say that by 2012

we will have gone beyond technology as we know it.
we will have gone beyond time and money.
we will have entered the fifth dimension after passing through the fourth dimension
Planet Earth and the Solar System will come into galactic synchronization with the rest of the Universe.
Our DNA will be "upgraded" (or reprogrammed) from the centre of our galaxy. (Hunab Ku)
Everybody on this planet is mutating. Some are more conscious of it than others. But everyone is doing it.

6. In 2012 the plane of our Solar System will line up exactly with the plane of our Galaxy, the Milky Way. This cycle has taken 26,000 years to complete. Virgil Armstrong also says that two other galaxies will line up with ours at the same time. A cosmic event!

7. Time is speeding up (or collapsing). For thousands of years the Schumann Resonance or pulse (heartbeat) of Earth has been 7.83 cycles per second, The military have used this as a very reliable reference. However, since 1980 this resonance has been slowly rising. It is now over 12 cycles per second! This means there is the equivalent of less than 16 hours per day instead of the old 24 hours.

8. During the Apocalypse or the time "between worlds" many people will be going through many personal changes. The changes will be many and varied. It is all part of what we came here to learn or experience. Examples of change could be- relationships coming to an end, change of residence or location, change of job or work, shift in attitude or thinking etc."

2012 - Series

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=nY3v2MP_fAQ

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=rtAUGi8bwFI

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=6ZQ0mSyrzvY

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=anQ0bz4wQ_k

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=s7gQ8vFsmlg

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Ec4c3rXDGKc



http://www.youtube.c...h?v=I5f_OnxylSw

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=_GbzrcjJsbk

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=sSCFHOxbAPU

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=3I5S-gk46Vw

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=ZixRxRlmzXw

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=TQX68CKIZR4

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=_GbzrcjJsbk

December 21, 2012

End of world, I hope its not like skylab or 1984 or 2000

The long-defunct New Age 'Spiritweb' site was saying in the late 90s that 2012 was going to be the year when the world became better for everyone. I'm not holding my breath.

The year itself is auspicious from the Hindu point of view, and I do know that the Mayans regard it highly as well.
But the Kali Yuga has many millennia to go, doesn't it? I was told the Yugas are very long.

But if 2012 is going to mark a good beginning and an improvement, then it is certainly most welcome; even if I'm unable to see how we're going to get out of the mess others insist on making with their intolerant ideologies. 2012, may it be good, may it be a good beginning.

THE PHOTON-BELT ENCOUNTER
(January, 1998)

By Noel Huntley, Ph.D.

By means of satellite instrumentation, astronomers in 1961 discovered what appeared to be an unusual nebula. We normally understand the nebula phenomenon as a vast cloud-like mass of gas or dust. This one, however, appeared to have anomalous properties and was named the Golden Nebula. The public's attention was not drawn to this unusual revelation until much later, presumably when it was realised that this nebula's location was coincident with the projected orbit of our solar system. Around the early 1980s a radio announcement in the U.S. was made (heard by the author) that our solar system was, in fact, going to collide with an 'electromagnetic cloud' in the not too distant future. This incredibly important statement of astronomical and historical significance was expressed in the usual casual and indifferent manner as though of little consequence--just as was, about that time, the announcement that the FDIC (bank-depositor's insurance) was penniless! Follow-up data was then suppressed and another government cover-up was contrived for the typical purpose of exploiting where possible natural events to camouflage contrived chaos.

What is this electromagnetic cloud, this golden nebula, sometimes referred to as the radiant nebula by ETs? Its more universal designation is 'photon belt' or 'photon band', consisting of many bands, and any encounter with this belt is recognised by extraterrestrials as of great import. It is in fact referred to by more enlightened ETs as a 'planetary trouble shooter'.

Let us outline the mechanics of this anticipated encounter of our solar system with the photon belt. The whole universe is held together by means of vortices within vortices of centripetal energy--with their associated electromagnetic fields--like whirlpools on water, within larger whirlpools (this is the machinery behind Einstein's spacetime topology of general relativity). These spiralling energies give rise to natural spacetime orbits: satellites around planets, planets around stars, solar systems around other more major vortex centres, and so on. Our planet Earth orbits the Sun once a year but our solar system as a whole also traverses an orbit in this section of the galaxy with a period of about 24,000 years. There are many other solar (star) systems in this cyclic motion (just as there are numerous planets orbiting the Sun). The Pleiades, which is encircled by the photon belt, is about 400 light years from us, and is part of this system and in fact our solar system orbits the central sun of the Pleiades, Alcyone. The belt consists of many photon bands emanating from the centre of the galaxy, and associated with the spiral arms of the galaxy.

Thus our solar system, and therefore planet Earth, takes some 24,000 years to come back to its same point in this particular orbit. Picture several star systems in a massive orbit, but now envisage overall a toroid or doughnut-shaped cloud cutting across these orbiting star systems. It is also described as an amoeba-like cloud of particles but most of its frequencies are invisible. This is the photon belt, or photon band. This means our solar system goes through the belt twice each cycle of 24,000 years (that is, every half cycle). The thickness of the photon cloud is such that technically it takes about 2000 years for our solar system to pass through, and therefore about 10,000 years between each encounter with this belt (2 x 10,000 plus 2 x 2000 = 24,000 years). Nevertheless, some sources state that the period in the band could be much less: 30 to 40 years, depending on man's resistance to change. This is difficult to relate to our fixed cyclic picture but, in addition, this same source points out that Earth was in trouble from the damage incurred by our civilisation and called for the photon belt--a typical emergency call procedure for planets. The fact that the 'call' was synchronous with the orbital position merely indicates the higher plans--that the big picture would already have matters organised to happen in that way. This 'call' occurred in 1947 and manifested as a signal which could have been monitored on the AM band, producing a clicking sound--see Robert Shapiro's Explorer Race and Shining The Light series of books.

When will this interaction occur? Scientists around the globe in 1992 predicted that the encounter would occur within months to a year; with significant disagreements. A particular source of Pleiadian extraterrestrials indicated that it would not occur until just after 2010 and that it was difficult to predict since the belt was oscillating randomly. There have been in fact huge discrepancies in channeled material regarding the date of this revelatory occurrence, ranging from 1987 to 'definitely before the end of this century' to 2003 and finally about 2011-2012. Other Pleiadians tell us that our solar system skimmed the belt for a few days in 1987, then contacted it for over a week in the following year, increasing the degree of entry each year, and then the Sun went in fully in 1998. The information indicates that Earth does not enter fully until 2012. At the present time we are being informed that the Earth is in the belt (for the period December, 1998 and June, 1999). The belt does, however, have an outer aura which we enter first, and we are not expected to experience the full-blown effects until 2012.

What does the photon belt consist of? What will be its effects on the life on our planet, positive or negative? Also what is its purpose, if any? The radio announcement used the term 'electromagnetic' to describe the phenomenon--this is the same as photon, which is a particle of light or electromagnetic radiation.

The photon belt is an immense region of space which is radiating intense electromagnetic radiation throughout the visible spectrum and beyond, into high-frequency invisible light; even including some x-ray spectra. It is part of a magnetic flow of light throughout the galaxy. Reference has already been made through the media to huge increases in intensity of 'dangerous' radiation entering through the holes in the ozone layer in certain regions of our planet.

It appears that for mankind on this planet the photon belt encounter will be essentially a spiritual experience--but this really depends on man. Nevertheless, the real benefits of this phenomenon is from what is actually causing the photons. It is linked with the so-called convergences. If we are sufficiently evolved at the time, great advancements will occur in our consciousness as we attune to the higher-frequencies. If we are negative, that is, possess too many lower vibrations, the result of selfish actions, we are not expected to survive the frequency incompatibility.

The convergence is the end of a stellar activation cycle--this is explained in detail in Anna Hayes' material. Thus, what causes the photon belt? The stellar activations have already begun and will continue through 2012 to 2017. The principle time cycle is 26,556 years, which is the precession of the equinoxes and is caused by a slow wobble of the Earth as it spins and orbits around the Sun. This is known by astronomers. Note that this period is not to be confused with the 24,000 (or so) year cycle in which our solar system orbits Alcyone.

Stellar activation occurs when our solar system lines up with the higher frequency bands of Pleiades (star Alcyone), Sirius, Arcturus, Orion, and Andromeda. The frequency bands then merge and pass through Earth. If Earth is out of balance within itself due to abuse from invader ETs, the illuminati, and Earthman's behaviour, the higher frequencies will cause an 'Armageddon'.

To understand the alignment, one could think of circles within circles (cycles within cycles) turning at different rates to which are attached magnets. Clearly, periodically they could line up, forming one long and powerful magnet. This would act like a powerful current. It is called a holographic beam since it contains the fundamental energy of these systems.

After the convergence, this holographic beam carries the remains of photon activity. When Earth is in alignment, it merges with higher-dimensional parallel Earth, Tara. During this process the particles and antiparticles of these planets and their antiparallel planets are unified in certain specific ways. When these particles and antiparticles come together they create intense photonic activity which we know as the photon belt. It is continually renewed each cycle as the holographic beam passes out through Alcyone, leaving the band around this star.

As implied, there will be a natural spiritual selection. In the initial stages of the photon-belt encounter only sensitives will detect anything strange but when we enter fully, even the most hardened individuals will receive the full effects. Both great illumination of consciousness will occur and great resistance to new ideas. This is a period of awakening essentially due to the ascension cycle and planetary alignment. What proportion of effects are directly due to the belt is difficult to say. Nevertheless this phenomenon of both the photon belt plus stellar activity will reduce the veil stopping us from seeing who we are. It will remove some of the barriers around cells and DNA making them more reactive or responsive to new energies, and in fact the DNA will attempt to respond to the changing frequencies, increasing its capacity.

Psychological characteristics of entering the belt are the effect of uprooting hidden, secret, or withheld material, bringing it to the surface for transmutation. This means psychological and physical disease patterns will be forced to the surface, that is, the conscious mind. This will give tremendous opportunity to make advancements but also where there is too much to handle will cause illness, depressions, disease and death.

More advanced viewpoints see the photon band as a being, a consciousness, which essentially has a 'personality' for change and action. It presents opportunities for change on a planet by adding new energies. It increases the flow of energy in the magnetic grids of Earth, attracting new ideas and energies. People will feel the need to transform but those who consider this physical reality their only expression will dwindle into greater fixations, blocks and negativity. Nevertheless it aids eradication of a species' self-destructive tendencies, which might mean wiping out the civilisation. Even the most dense person will be accelerated into a higher state of consciousness, causing possible havoc in their mind and body if they are not prepared. Channeled material from the Shining the Light books tells of a civilisation which was utilising the planet's resources to make it into a dynamo. This was killing the planet and it called on the photon belt which eradicated the race, everyone, in three days, by putting them to 'sleep'. Nothing as drastic as this will be necessary for Earth; the energy will encourage people to come into balance but where resisted will cause further imbalances.

Other information from this source has been given about the effect on animals. They will forage more widely and attempt to give birth more often to maximize their species. They will also be drawn to built-up areas; in some cases this will be old territory for them but in general they will feel the need to be closer to humans. This would only apply to wild animals.

The effects on the Earth's body are expected to be quite dramatic. The photon belt enables the planet to repair herself. She will, for example, protect her oil. Too much is being drawn off by man and cannot all be replaced--not dissimilar to drawing off man's cerebral spinal fluid. Mother Earth will harden the crust under the surface and pull in the oil, also gases, coal and ores, deeper into the centre, shifting harmlessly also benevolent races into protected regions. The photon belt will not apparently leave until humans utilise surface resources only, including water.

Scientists will find that sub-atomic particles will become more evident and easier to detect. Electricity will be reduced and become less available in the next 50 years--this represents an energy depletion of the planet. Earth is taking on a new energy and scientists must find new ways of working with it. They will even give more attention to how love affects life and its chemistry. New diseases will arise and abnormal heart rhythms for the descending group but expansion of the heart for the ascending group.

Other spectacular effects, some of a temporary nature, were expected prior to the recognition that Earth intended to receive the photon belt as gently as possible as our Sun system moves into it. Earth is circling the Sun, thus it is alternatively ahead of the Sun and behind in its linear translation towards the belt. Consequently, either the Sun or our planet would enter first. Scientifically it would have been impossible to predict which, since, as stated, the photon belt is expanding and contracting randomly. If the Sun reached the photon cloud before Earth it had been channeled that darkness would ensue for about three to five days. It would have been expected to be pitch dark with probable cancellation of electrical power sources. If, however, Earth went in first then the darkness would have been avoided. This was all earlier speculation.

We were told by one source of ETs that as our planet enters the bands, which would be at a relatively high velocity, we would experience an immediate electric shock, lasting about one tenth of a second, but not dangerous. This appears unlikely now as we are moving in very gradually. Apparently it could have been sufficiently sudden to destroy the civilisation and to heal the planet quickly, but Earth requested a very gradual repair.

Of greater concern were said to be the effects of the intense photon activity on the radiation belt around Earth and the sudden compression of the atmosphere and expansion, which was expected to be such that the radiation belt could ignite. If it did, within minutes the sky would be lit up with intense light, more powerful than from a welder's torch. If eyes were not protected it would cause blindness. This intense light was expected to last three days. These dangers appear to have been by-passed. The photon belt encounter, thanks to Mother Earth, has been adjusted to give minimum suffering to mankind and maximum benefit.

Another spectacular feature given in earlier reports but not high-lighted so much in the present ones, will be the effect of the intense photon activity on matter. High excitation of atoms will occur, causing fluorescence of all objects, and as a result there will be no normal night time during the period of interaction.

The stellar alignments and accompanying photon-belt encounter will play a significant role in the (biblical) transformation of man. Our interaction with it has been referred to in channeling as the Christus. Moreover, the event is supposed to be the true nature of the ascension or rapture, well known in the prophecies of Christianity. The term 'Christus' apparently expresses the Second Coming of Christ. (Christ is a state of being/consciousness --some ETs refer to it as the 'Christ office'. Jesus was not Christ but he could attune to this state--which in turn then paradoxically means he was (being) Christ.)

There will be a rebirthing of planet Earth. We are told it will divide; each part retaining wholeness though, producing a 3rd density (frequency density) Earth and a 4th density Earth. This will not be perceived physically; the planets will be in different dimensions. One will be in a parallel universe relative to the other. Earth has many parallel bodies: one around 3.0; we are about 3.5, then 4.0 and 5.0, etc. (the 4th is apparently relatively unoccupied except for some animals having left us and are waiting). The Voyagers books of Anna Hayes describes the division into three time tracks and is highly recommended reading.

(Note that serious books on physics cover parallel-universe theories--there is nothing particular weird or new about this. It has been channeled that we sometimes move into parallel-universe planes and back, which are sometimes virtually identical. A further example is that an advanced civilisation exists in the centre of the Earth but this particular civilisation is in a parallel plane which is reached by entering 'electromagnetic' corridors near the openings at the poles and certain other regions.)

Possibly the only sad event will be that some families will be split up by the natural spiritual selection of the photon-belt encounter. Some individuals will go with the more evolved Earth, referred to as 4th density, and others with the 3rd density Earth, which could permanently separate their evolution by several thousands of years (in rare instances one person taking the more evolved path may suspend progress to wait for the other).

There are a number of greater cycles involved at this time, for example, 225 million years (the Reptilian cycle), 26,556 years (as mentioned), and 104,000 years (a prominent evolutionary peak after four cycles of 26,556 years), culminating in a powerful convergence at this time. It has also been stated that this point in time coincides with the universe reaching its maximum point of expansion. Synchronisation of all such nodes would be expected to open up the dimensional strata for the influx of new energy and the subsequent changes--in other words, a major alignment.

The photon cloud has a high density of electrons and positrons (positive, anti-electrons). When an electron and a positron collide they are annihilated and the mass is converted into radiation--photons. The presence of these positrons, however, has been predicted to interfere with electricity, of which the latter is due to the flow of electrons. It has been indicated that before this event occurs it would be possible to redesign the present polarity system, giving a reversal of our polarity to compensate for this problem (we haven't noticed any effect yet). The photon energy as a result of the collision of electrons and positrons will become a major source of free energy (and at this time the NWO will be unable to suppress its use).

According to channeled information, extraterrestrials will be aiding our transition during this photon-belt event. It is stated that they altered (years ago) the basic polarity of the Sun to allow it to maintain the integrity of the Sun's planetary system. At a later time, however, NASA's space probe Ulysses detected that the magnetic field of the Sun no longer has a north and south pole! The Sun's magnetic field was found to have changed dramatically into a homogeneous field. No scientific explanation was given, and of course it has been withheld from the public. Furthermore, the SOHO satellite more recently revealed that the Sun responded abnormally to the impact of cosmic bodies causing an eruption of some 30 to 35 solar flares, which is unprecedented. (Note that unknown to present physics the Sun and planetary bodies, etc. have powerful high-frequency electromagnetic fields which would be expected to form the basis for the solar system integrity, despite interference and jeopardy from magnetic pole variations.)

The photon-belt encounter and its origin, the alignments, are intended to be a positive experience but only man with sufficient discipline to improve and elevate his consciousness can ensure that the anticipated Golden Age will manifest.

Source: http://www.users.glo.../photonbelt.htm

In the Hindu system of time cycles, the longest cycles last trillions of years, but at the shorter end of the cycle spectrum, we have the four Yugas, which are:

* Krita Yuga (Golden Age): 1,728,000 years = 2,160 x 800
* Treta Yuga (Silver Age): 1,296,000 years = 2,160 x 600
* Dvapara Yuga (Copper/Bronze Age): 864,000 years = 2,160 x 400
* Kali Yuga (Iron Age): 432,000 years = 2,160 x 200 ...

[ Since 2,160 years = 72 x 30 = precession of the equinox through 30 degrees, or 1/12 of a full precession, there may be some connection between the Hindu system of time cycles and precession, but it is not completely clear to me because 200, 400, 600, and 800 are not multiples of 12. I would be happier with the precession idea if, instead of multiples of 100, multiples of 9 x 12 = 108 had been used to get:

* Krita Yuga (Golden Age): 1,866,240 years = 2,160 x 864
* Treta Yuga (Silver Age): 1,399,680 years = 2,160 x 648
* Dvapara Yuga (Copper/Bronze Age): 933,120 years = 2,160 x 432
* Kali Yuga (Iron Age): 466,560 years = 2,160 x 216

However, it may be an acceptable practice in Hindu/Vedic cosmology to approximate 108 by 100. ]

... John Major Jenkins' recent book, Galactic Alignment goes into the Vedic Yuga system in some detail, and he studies the work of Hindu saint, Sri Swami Yukteswar, (born 1855) ... In one of the oldest Vedic writings, attributed to the god-man Manu, the 4 Yugas are said to add up to 24,000 years, but when they are enumerated, they only come to 12,000 years.

* The Satya Yuga (Golden Age) lasts 4,800 years;
* the Treta Yuga (Silver Age) lasts 3,600 years;
* the Dvapara Yuga (Bronze age) lasts 2,400 years, and
* the Kali Yuga (Iron Age) lasts 1,200 years.

Yuketswar ... equates the 12,000 years to a descending half of the 24,000-year cycle, and another 12,000 years to an ascending half. Jenkins' Study of the Yukteswar analysis shows that Yukteswar was talking about the precession cycle, but basing it on a 24,000-year cycle, rather than the (approx) 25,700-year cycle recognised by astronomy.

[ The approximation by 25,700 by 24,000 = 25,920 / 1.08 is within the range mentioned above of approximating 108 by 100. ]

The descent into darkness started when the Summer (June) solstice sun was aligned with Galactic Centre, around 10,800 BC, and

the ascent back to light starts when the Winter (December) solstice sun aligns with Galactic Centre ...[ which is in the year 2012 ]".

http://www.angelfire.com/yt/Yukteswar/

Human Population Growth

According to an article by Joel E. Cohen in the September 2005 issue of Scientific American:

"... The year 2005 is the midpoint of a decade that spans three unique, important transitions in the history of humankind.

* Before 2000, young people always outnumbered old people. From 2000 forward, old people will outnumber old people.
* Until approximately 2007, rural people will have always outnumbered urban people. From approximately 2007 forward, urban people will outnumber rural people.
* From 2003 on, the median woman worldwide had, and will continue to have, too few or just enough children during her lifetime to replace herself and the father in the following generation.

The century with 2000 as its midpoint marks three additional, unique, important transitions in human history.

* First, no person who died before 1930 had lived through a doubling of the human population. Nor is any person born in 2050 or later likely to live through a doubling of the human population. In contrast, everyone 45 years or older today has seen more than a doubling of human numbers from three billion in 1960 to 6.5 billion in 2005. The peak population growth rate ever reached, about 2.1 percent a year, occurred between 1965 and 1970. Human population never grew with such speed before the 20th century and is never again likely to grow with such speed. Our descendants will look back on the late 1960s as the most significant demographic event in the history of the human population ...
* Second, the dramatic fall since 1970 of the global population growth rate to 1.1 or 1.2 percent a year today resulted primarily from choices by billions of couples around the world to limit the number of children born. ... Never before the 20th century has a fall in the global population growth rate been voluntary [ as opposed to plagues, wars, etc ] ...
* Finally, the last half a century saw, and the next half a century will see, an enormous shift in the demographic balance between the more developed regions of the world and the less developed ones. Whereas in 1950 the less developed regions had roughly twice the population of the more developed ones, by 2050 the ratio will exceed six to one.

... By 2050 the world's popuylation is projected to reach 9.1 billion, plus or minus two billion people, depending on future birth and death rates. ... humans are already growing enough cereal grains to feed 10 billion people a vegetarian diet. ... ".

acharya,
10,800 BC is also the same time many alternative theorists believe Sphinx was built,which withstood the great flood of the nile. Is there any connection with the time line or is it just a coincidence? Please enlighten me.

There is a time line. The sky and the position of the stars in 10800 BC will replicate again.



If you get a astronomy software and check the stars in the sky 10800 BC you will see the similarity



In 2012 the plane of our Solar System will line up exactly with the plane of our Galaxy, the Milky Way. This cycle has taken 26,000 years to complete. Two other galaxies will line up with ours at the same time. A cosmic event!

http://pwentworth196...tudy/id383.html

Maya 2012 and Hindu 2013

The date February 21st, 2013 is very significant and it closely
corresponds with the date of December 21st, 2012, which the ancient
Maya believed to be the Earth's final day. Although separated by two
months, these two dates probably point to the same momentous and
epochal event. The Maya claimed that this future end-time could
include a catastrophic magnetic pole reversal of the planet Earth, a
solar shift, a Venus transit and mounting earthquakes, among other
catastrophes. On the other hand, other experts claim that the Mayans
might not have claimed that the year 2012 would necessarily be
the "end of days," but perhaps just the end of an age. Many cycles
are said to begin on that same date. The belief is that Mother Earth
as a living entity will transcend to another level or frequency or
consciousness and a new and special era will begin. The preparation
for this new age is now in the womb of the Mother Earth, so to
speak, and the process of change is bringing transcendental
manifestations, which as Sahaja Yogis we can all bear witness.

The Mayan calendar is recognized as the world's most accurate
calendar, more so than the Gregorian system in use today. Its
accuracy is said to be such that the Mayan calendar will need to be
adjusted by only one day in 380,000 years. From astronomical
observations measuring the precession of the equinoxes and
solstices, the ancient Mayan or pre-Maya determined the date of
December 21st, 2012, as the end of their Long Count Calendar, the
end of time. This end-date of the Long Count Calendar in 2012, this
precession of the equinoxes indeed pinpoints a rare alignment in a
vast cycle of time. On December 21st, 2012, the galactic equator,
the mid-point of our galaxy, will cross the ecliptic path of the
sun, creating a rare conjunction of the winter solstice.

A new precessional cycle is a very significant event indeed. It
happens only once every 25,800 years. The classical Maya who
apparently were masters of large cycles of time, believed that a
precessional cycle marked a specific time of spiritual evolution.
Thus, a new cycle of spiritual evolution is now beginning as marked
by their 2012 calendar end-point. Also, this is the date on which
the earth will pass over from Pisces and the new Age of Aquarius
will truly begin; in Sahaj terminology this date will herald the
start of Satya Yuga. Below is a passage showing how the onset of
Satya Yuga is described in the Devi Bhagavatam. Note that when Satya
Yuga is truly established, in the words of the Devi
Bhagavatam, "...and all will meditate on the Dev�." Can anybody
doubt that eventual victory will belong to the Divine Mother?

"O N�rada! Thus, when the Kali will have its full play, the whole
world will be filled with Mlechchas, the trees will be one hand high
and the men will be of the size of a thumb. Then the most powerful
Bhagav�n N�r�yana will incarnate in His part in the house of a
Br�hmin named Visnujas'� as his son. Mounted on a long horse,
holding a long sword He will make the world free of the Mlechchas in
three nights. Then he will disappear from the face of the Earth and
She will be without any sovereign and be filled with robbers. There
will be incessant rain, for six nights and it will rain and rain and
the whole earth will be deluged; no traces of men, houses, and
trees. After this the Twelve Suns will rise simultaneously and by
their rays the whole water will be dried up and the earth will
become level. Thus the dreadful Kali will pass away when the Satya
Yuga will come back, Tapasy� and the true religion and Sattva Guna
will prevail again. The Br�hmins will practise Tapasy�, they will be
devoted to Dharma and the Vedas. The women will be chaste and
religious in every house. Again the wise and intelligent Ksattriyas
devoted to the Br�hmanas will occupy the royal thrones and their
might, devotion to Dharma and love for good deeds will increase. The
Vais'yas will again go on with their trades and their devotion to
their trade and the Br�hmins will be reestablished. The S'�dras,
too, will be again virtuous, and serve the Br�hmins. Again the
Br�hmins, Ksattriyas, and Vais'yas and their families will have
Bhakti towards the Dev�, be initiated in Dev� Mantras and all will
meditate on the Dev�." (Book 9, Chapter Cool
www.sacred-texts.com/hin/db/bk09ch08.htm

Thus the dreadful Kali
will pass away when the Satya Yuga will come back..." If the
beginning of 2013 is taken to be the start of Satya Yuga or the
return of Kalki, then the seven-year Tribulation could be
starting very soon.

So in just a little over seven years from now, to borrow from a
famous speech, mankind will have its tryst with destiny and then at
the stroke of the midnight hour, while the rest of the world sleeps
(both literally and metaphorically), the realized souls of the world
will awaken to a new world, the new age of enlightenment, the Satya
Yuga! But on the other hand, if we do not live up to our
responsibilities over the next seven years and if there is no or
insufficient spiritual transformation and awakening in mankind, then
we could all wake up to the nightmare of Tandava! the Dance of
Sadashiva. The ancient Mayans have foreseen the possible outcomes.
It is all up to us now as the rest of mankind nonchalantly lays,
unaware, teetering on the brink.

http://adishakti.org...topic.php?t=644

We are at a critical juncture in history, a �decision-window� where we face both the danger of global collapse and the opportunity of worldwide renewal.

According to era we have six to seven years to head off unsustainable trends that would lead to a �tipping point� beyond which there is no turning back. After this �tipping point� we either evolve to a safer, more sustainable world, or the social, economic and ecological systems that frame our lives will break down.

This is the Chaos Point, but this need not be the end of the world, only the end of a phase from which a new world could dawn. In today�s �decision window� we have a unique chance of creating that new world. This period tells us what healing and renewal means, and how each of us can help in achieving it.

http://blip.tv/file/187638

Husky, Let the thread flow. We will see how the events turn out

Global Warming is a concept being sold to the public by certain Govt's and interests. It is a coverup for keeping people ignorant about the true source of sharp temperature fluctuations on earth viz Solar Flares and various changes taking place in the Sun.

http://news.bbc.co.u.../tech/56456.stm

SOLAR FLARES AND GLOBAL WARMING. A recent study by researchers at Duke University and the Army Research Office has found new evidence of a link between solar flare activity and the earth's temperature. The work is another contribution to the ongoing debate over global warming and its causes. A strong link between solar flares and our climate, if it exists, could override the influence humans have on the temperature of our environment. One of the challenges of determining the connection between solar flare activity and the atmosphere stems from the fact that the motion of the air that blankets our planet is turbulent and complex. A sudden burst of solar activity would, in effect, be smeared out by moving air and its interaction with the earth's surface. Any temperature increase caused by a given period of solar flare activity would be difficult to determine, at best. Rather than focus on such challenging one-to-one correlations, the new study compares the form of the statistical fluctuations in solar flare activity with the form of the statistical fluctuations of the earth's temperature. The researchers (contact: Bruce J. West, Bruce.J.West@us.army.mil, 919-549-4257) explain that solar flare activity can be characterized by a type of statistics described by a Levy distribution, which is generated by a "Levy-walk." (Many natural phenomena, from foraging patterns of spider monkeys to complex hydrodynamic flows, are well described by Levy walks, although the coefficients in the relevant equations typically vary from one phenomenon to another. See Update 510-3 for one example.) Analyses of global and local temperature fluctuations are also well described by a Levy-walk. In fact, a comparison of the mathematical coefficients that describe the fluctuations suggest to the researchers that the atmosphere directly inherits its temperature fluctuations from the variation in solar flare activity. Unless some other underlying cause is responsible for the unlikely correspondence between solar flares and the earth's temperature, the research suggests that for the large part variations in global temperatures are beyond our control and are instead at the mercy of the sun's activity. (Nicola Scafetta and Bruce J. West, Physical Review Letters, 20 June 2003)


http://newton.ex.ac....ysnews.642.html

Also here is an interesting article from an Indian freelance researcher who seems to have stumbled upon a significant correlation between solar flares and earthquakes.




http://www.hindu.com...12304970400.htm

NASA predicts huge solar flares directed towards earth between 2010 and 2012

http://science.nasa....tormwarning.htm


http://science.nasa....tormwarning.htm

My recollection of the 1987 is one of a sudden change into an extremely hot year. There was severe drought in few states. That 1987 drought is still considered the greatest drought that India had in the century. I still have images fresh in my memory, while returning to Delhi from Calcutta after summer vacations, of dried up cattle carcass lying on either side of the rail tracks along stretches in UP.

As per above reports, we might not always be so lucky.

In 2003 something similar happened, but fortunately earth just received just a fraction of the flare.



http://news.bbc.co.u...ure/3251481.stm

Raju,

Those CMEs flares etc are not a cause for worry as long as earth's magnetosphere remains intact. Earth has faced many direct hits with large CMEs and a person on ground perhaps merely noticed his TV channels becoming noisy. To date worst impacts have only caused some power outages and possibly some satellite damage due to EMP kind of effect.

The speed of CME/flare plasma seems daunting, but they are extremely dilute when they hit earth's magnetosphere. Those charged particles don't much penetrate earth's magnetosphere and are sent spiralling down earth's magnetic field lines creating aurorae. The x-rays, UV rays gamma rays etc also get absorbed or scattered. Thats why astronauts in earth orbit are safe from flares, while those outside the magnetosphere, say on moon could be in danger when facing a flare.

Also that picture from BBC is not correct. A typical CME expands to about 2000-4000 times earth size when it hits earth's magnetosphere. And it primarily just wraps around the magnetosphere and goes away. Magnetosphere just gets hammered and distorted causing a geo-magnetic storm, but not much lasting damage is done.

IIRC earth has never been in the direct line-of-sight of a massive solar flare ever. The biggest Solar Flare ever recorded in history in 2003 found Earth receiving only a glancing blow from the flare.

However this is nothing compared to what would have happened if the flare had been targeted directly towards Earth. This is the 2010-12 scenario.

Many spacecrafts (outside earth's magnetosphere) have been hit by and passed through centers of many flares, big and small, and their magnetic/particle data is available.

In short, undue worries about flares are misplaced, unless you happen to be outside earth's magnetosphere without a radiation suit. Of course power grid instabilities and satellite failures can occur during a big flare.

Solar 'superflare' shredded Earth's ozone



The largest solar flare in the last 500 years may have shredded Earth's ozone layer to a greater extent than human-made chemicals have in recent decades, new research suggests, but the effect was only temporary. If such a flare occurred today, it would likely be even more damaging to the ozone and could increase the rate of skin cancer around the world.

On 1 September 1859, the Sun expelled huge quantities of high-energy protons in a 'superflare'. The event was seen on Earth by an observer who noticed a white spot on the Sun suddenly brighten for about five minutes.

When the magnetic storm struck Earth, fires started in telegraph stations due to electrical arcing in the telegraph wires. The northern lights, or aurorae borealis, were reportedly seen as far south as Florida in the US.

from above link by Raju:

Raju,

EMP effects of flares are well known, and a big flare can cause arcing/sparking damaging satellites, and as reported, possibly for electrical equipment on ground too. Electric grid failures have happened during flares.

But even with that superflare of 1859 the damage was not significant at all. And ozone level dropped only 5% for 4 years, not really a big deal.

But they are not sure,

A 5% drop in ozone lasting forever (not only 4 years) increases UV exposure by say a few % more, so skin cancer rates may go up few % more. Is that a big deal.

Also most of the ozone damage will be near the polar regions, not uniformly over the globe, and not many humans live in the polar region.

I would be more worried about a large enough flare related EMP that can damage commnucations & power lines etc.

NASA Claims Polar Shift Due In 2012
Written by Administrator
Friday, 09 December 2005
Solar System - Did you notice? In February 2001, the Sun did a magnetic polar shift. The next one is due again in 2012. NASA scientists who monitor the Sun say that our star's awesome magnetic field flipped 22 months ago, signaling the arrival of a solar maximum. But it wasn't so obvious to the average human. ImageThe Sun's magnetic north pole, which was in the northern hemisphere just a few months ago, now points south. It's a topsy-turvy situation, but not an unexpected one. "This always happens around the time of solar maximum," says David Hathaway, a solar physicist at the Marshall Space Flight Center. "The magnetic poles exchange places at the peak of the sunspot cycle. In fact, it's a good indication that Solar Max is really here." The Sun's magnetic poles will remain as they are now, with the north magnetic pole pointing through the Sun's southern hemisphere, until the year 2012 when they will reverse again. This transition happens, as far as we know, at the peak of every 11-year sunspot cycle -- like clockwork.

Earth�s magnetic field also flips, but with less regularity. Consecutive reversals are spaced 5 thousand years to 50 million years apart. The last reversal happened 740,000 years ago. Some researchers think our planet is overdue for another one, but nobody knows exactly when the next reversal might occur. ImageAlthough solar and terrestrial magnetic fields behave differently, they do have something in common: their shape. During solar minimum the Sun's field, like Earth's, resembles that of an iron bar magnet, with great closed loops near the equator and open field lines near the poles. Scientists call such a field a "dipole." The Sun's dipolar field is about as strong as a refrigerator magnet, or 50 gauss (a unit of magnetic intensity). Earth's magnetic field is 100 times weaker. When solar maximum arrives and sunspots pepper the face of the Sun, our star's magnetic field begins to change. Sunspots are places where intense magnetic loops -- hundreds of times stronger than the ambient dipole field -- poke through the photosphere. "Meridional flows on the Sun's surface carry magnetic fields from mid-latitude sunspots to the Sun's poles," explains Hathaway. "The poles end up flipping because these flows transport south-pointing magnetic flux to the north magnetic pole, and north-pointing flux to the south magnetic pole."

The dipole field steadily weakens as oppositely-directed flux accumulates at the Sun's poles until, at the height of solar maximum, the magnetic poles change polarity and begin to grow in a new direction. Hathaway noticed the latest polar reversal in a "magnetic butterfly diagram." Using data collected by astronomers at the U.S. National Solar Observatory on Kitt Peak, he plotted the Sun's average magnetic field, day by day, as a function of solar latitude and time from 1975 through the present. The result is a sort of strip chart recording that reveals evolving magnetic patterns on the Sun's surface. "We call it a butterfly diagram," he says, "because sunspots make a pattern in this plot that looks like the wings of a butterfly." In the butterfly diagram, pictured below, the Sun's polar fields appear as strips of uniform color near 90 degrees latitude. When the colors change (in this case from blue to yellow or vice versa) it means the polar fields have switched signs.

The ongoing changes are not confined to the space immediately around our star, Hathaway added. The Sun's magnetic field envelops the entire solar system in a bubble that scientists call the "heliosphere." The heliosphere extends 50 to 100 astronomical units (AU) beyond the orbit of Pluto. Inside it is the solar system -- outside is interstellar space. "Changes in the Sun's magnetic field are carried outward through the heliosphere by the solar wind," explains Steve Suess, another solar physicist at the Marshall Space Flight Center. "It takes about a year for disturbances to propagate all the way from the Sun to the outer bounds of the heliosphere." Because the Sun rotates (once every 27 days) solar magnetic fields corkscrew outwards in the shape of an Archimedian spiral. Far above the poles the magnetic fields twist around like a child's Slinky toy. Because of all the twists and turns, "the impact of the field reversal on the heliosphere is complicated," says Hathaway. Sunspots are sources of intense magnetic knots that spiral outwards even as the dipole field vanishes.

The heliosphere doesn't simply wink out of existence when the poles flip -- there are plenty of complex magnetic structures to fill the void. Or so the theory goes.... Researchers have never seen the magnetic flip happen from the best possible point of view -- that is, from the top down. But now, the unique Ulysses spacecraft may give scientists a reality check. Ulysses, an international joint venture of the European Space Agency and NASA, was launched in 1990 to observe the solar system from very high solar latitudes. Every six years the spacecraft flies 2.2 AU over the Sun's poles. No other probe travels so far above the orbital plane of the planets. "Ulysses just passed under the Sun's south pole," says Suess, a mission co-Investigator. "Now it will loop back and fly over the north pole in the fall." "This is the most important part of our mission," he says. Ulysses last flew over the Sun's poles in 1994 and 1996, during solar minimum, and the craft made several important discoveries about cosmic rays, the solar wind, and more. "Now we get to see the Sun's poles during the other extreme: Solar Max. Our data will cover a complete solar cycle." www.PoleReversal.com
Last Updated ( Friday, 06 January 2006 )

Solar cycle of 22 years is a well known phenomenon. Every 11 years solar poles flip completing a cycle in 22 years.

Sunspots and solar-flares also follow this and appear strongly every 11 years during a period called a solar maximum. At solar maximum magnetic field develops a strong azimuthal component and looks less like a dipole. In the interim when poles fully recover and the field looks dipolar, then that is called a solar-minimum, since sunspot/solar-flare activity is minimal during that phase.

So, 2012 solar-maximum is nothing special as such, apart from a coincidence with Mayan calendar.

I would be extremely sceptical about anything earth-shaking happening during 2011-2012 related to solar phenomena.

http://www.vision2012.net/

http://www.diagnosis....co.uk/link.htm


http://www.vitalsign...xtract2012.html

http://pwentworth196...tudy/id273.html

acharya

check this link

A very interesting read. It touches many concepts and I really suggest a read.



The Galaxy and Harmonic Resonance
Fascinating Physical Proofs of Ascension
by David Wilcock

We know that the Sun is actively pumping out spiraling energy waves that drive the planets and moons in their respective orbits. Both Bode's Law and the new Stoneking Resonance theories show that the planets are spaced out in the natural Diatonic musical proportions relative to each other.[1] The very first extra-solar planetary system that we discovered, which was around pulsar B1257+12, also shows these same proportions.[2] The proportional phenomenon supports the idea that every star is pumping out energy waves that create similar planetary systems, as this kind of resonance obviously could not be caused by random groupings of gas and dust.

Then, just like the principles of a hologram or a fractal, within the larger waves from the Sun are subtler, smaller waves. And these are also based on the same musical principles. They all branch out, forming waves upon waves and getting smaller and smaller.


In the optimal planetary system, where there are no major cataclysms or interruptions, there is a specific distance from the Sun where the tiniest spiraling waves will gather a planet's natural materials together to form the DNA molecules of life. The DNA is the wave, and the wave is the DNA.

That DNA is formed in the process of planetary evolusion may sound ridiculous, but it can effectively be proven by something known as the DNA Phantom effect. Dr. Vladimir Poponin put DNA in a tube and shone a laser through it, and to his surprise he realized that it actually captured the light and caused it to spiral through the helix, as if it were a crystal. Even more amazingly, when Dr. Poponin removed the DNA, the light continued spiraling on its own![3]

For light to form a DNA helix on its own should of course be impossible - unless the light itself had become harmonically tuned to some naturally existing frequency in the energy of space around it. To me, this says that the spiraling light energy of DNA was there first, and the physical molecules simply formed around the spiraling energy once the planet was at the proper frequency position. The Galaxy is ''tuned'' to form human DNA in planetary systems wherever it gets the chance.


The theory of the Evolution of Species is being disproven because the DNA molecule is just too complicated to have arisen by ''natural mutations.'' Dr. Crick, one of the original discoverers of the DNA molecule, later proved mathematically that it is absolutely impossible for evolution to have ever even begun to produce DNA in the short amount of history that we have as a planet.[4]


So now, we are moving into a new position. Microbiology experts tell us that 97 percent of our DNA is apparently un-used,[5] but I have been told that more and more of the chain is ''unzipping'' for those who are able to handle the new fourth-density energy structure. These people may not physically look any different, except perhaps more attractive in subtle ways, but internally they will develop greater depths of emotion, perception, intuition, and sensitivity.

Some of the younger people will actually develop telekinesis or the ability to ''see dead people.'' Many others often find that their bodies will no longer tolerate foods of lower vibration, and they are impelled to eat diets high in fresh organic fruits and vegetables.

So as you drift farther away from your parent star, your planet enters into different vibrational energies and will support life in higher densities.

As Ra explains[6], there is an Octave of eight major densities. This is the same as if you played the white keys on the piano, the Diatonic scale. The Octave can also be broken down into a system of 13, which can be seen by playing the Chromatic scale of white and black keys together. There are many densities within densities. Each of these vibratory frequencies corresponds to a specific plane of existence - and/or a specific level of consciousness.

Another teaching of Ra is that all people have higher selves, a sixth-density future incarnative self that is guiding their life and guiding their physical incarnation from the future. The Higher Self basically says, ''Look, I know that you're going to evolve to become me. I'm looking back into my past at myself, but I also know that you have free will. I don't necessarily know all the choices that you will make on a day-by-day basis to eventually get to be me, where I am now. So I'm going to help you get to this point. I'm going to show you how to get to where I am, knowing that it's myself that's evolving.''

That is what dreams are.


Dreams are a very high level, distilled message from the Higher Self that comes through to the individual in the language of metaphor. It doesn't matter whether you understand your dreams with your conscious mind or not. It doesn't matter whether you remember them or not. Your dreams communicate with your fourth-dimensional or fourth-density astral self, which I believe is the same self that Edgar Cayce was using to do his medical readings.

It's your astral self that goes through the dream experience. So it's as if you have multiple levels of your being that are doing different things, things that you're not aware of. They're doing all sorts of work, and they're buzzing around - and yet it's all part of you, at the same time.

And this is a very mind-expanding concept because you realize how much more you are than your physical body. You realize how much more you're loved and how much more of yourself there is.


The keystone to all of this that we're talking about - to everything I mentioned so far - is the idea that evolution must come on a mass scale. Ascension is not simply restricted to an idea like the Christians' saying there is going to be this ''rapture,'' where Jesus comes back and ushers in a thousand years of peace. It's a cosmic event, and has been prophesied in almost every major religious and spiritual tradition that has existed on the face of the Earth.

In my new career as research director for the ''Time of Global Shift'' tour, I provide references to back up these assertions.[7] Let's talk about some of these now.

We'll start with Dr. Alexey Dmitriev from the Russian National Academy of Sciences. Dmitriev did work with tornadoes showing that in the presence of a tornado there are very high electromagnetic fields, visible light, and ball lightning. And there are all sorts of cases where the tornado causes the physical objects to fuse into each other - where matter actually becomes able to permeate other matter. Dmitriev cites cases where two burnt and charred wooden boards were fused together by a tornado, even though they would crumble at the slightest touch. There were pebbles that had gone through glass without breaking the glass; pieces of straw that went through a window and got stuck in the window without breaking it.[8]

All this weird stuff is happening that shows that matter is able to disappear or become permeable to other matter in the presence of a strong enough field.

Then we look at the Bermuda Triangle. In a triangular area off the coast of Florida between Puerto Rico, Miami, and Bermuda, there have been planes lost as well as ships. It hasn't really been active since the 1970s, but certainly it was before then. And we're not just talking about marine vessels that disappear, and you can say, ''Okay, well, it sank.'' We're talking about airplanes that are on radar and have radio contact, and suddenly they're just gone.

In certain cases there have been people who disappear and then reappear. There was a case in the late 1969 where a National Airlines 727 passenger aircraft flying into Miami had lost all radar and radio contact for 10 minutes. Of course, the air traffic controller was highly freaked out by this.

Ten minutes went by and communication came back on. The air traffic controller asked them where they had been, and they didn't know what he was talking about. They had no perception of anything's having happened. And when they landed, it was discovered that every single timepiece in the entire aircraft - everybody's watch, every chronometer, you name it - had lost 10 minutes! It was as if they basically just winked out of our existence for 10 minutes and then came back.[9]

The more we investigate these vortex phenomena, the more we see that some strange things are happening.

Another vortex phenomenon case involved a group of young hippies who were camped out inside Stonehenge when the stones were struck by lightning. Witnesses saw them all disappear, leaving only the charred pegs of their tents.[10] I believe that the higher energy vibration of the lightning activated the vortex that Stonehenge had been built to harness, which in turn caused this to happen, and I think that the creators of Stonehenge probably used these effects for travel through space and time.

So apparently Stonehenge and the Bermuda Triangle are places where, at certain times, the amount of gravitational and vibrational energy coming out of the Earth exceeds that going into the Earth. You could think of these areas as being akin to holes that have been popped in a plastic bag filled with water - for a certain amount of time, the water would flow out very quickly.

And you can see that in those two locations, there is a history of incidents suggesting that matter has been transmuted in the presence of such an energy vortex.

What we are leading to is that the entire energy of the Solar System is increasing, and that at some point, it will reach a level where it will transmute all life on the planet. That is when Ascension will be manifest.


Research is now suggesting that the Sun is like a hole that has popped in the energy field of the Galaxy, allowing energy to flow out in a given area; that's why we see it as bright white light.

They've already proven that there's no nuclear furnace going on in there. The amount of neutrinos that the Sun gives off is far too low for it to be the byproduct of a nuclear reaction. There are missing neutrinos. They've known about this for 30 years, and the problem is not being solved - those missing neutrinos simply don't exist!

So the Sun is not a nuclear furnace. The Sun basically represents cosmic energy, the true energy of Creation.

What this means is that the Sun is like a pinhole in space where the energy is flowing out - just like the pinhole in the bag of water we spoke about earlier, or what you would see in the Bermuda Triangle.

And in higher levels of vibration, you see a lot more than just the pinhole of the Sun; you see all the vibrations that surround it. These appear as concentric spheres of energy, like ripples on a pond, which are connected by a spiraling coil of energy that expands on out to drive the orbits and rotations of the planets and moons. Everything meshes precisely together like one giant set of gears. This coil from the Sun has been studied and measured. NASA refers to it as the ''Parker Spiral.''[11]

Right now, we can only detect these fields with instruments as a form of magnetic energy.


There are many, many crop-circle formations that show these energy systems of sacred geometry and concentric, expanding spheres connected by spirals. So ''they'' are definitely trying to give us a message. The recent 900-foot long Milk Hill crop formation mirrors the Sun's expanding spiral energy patterns. It contains 409 different circles and was actually displayed on CNN Headline News, as its sheer size and grandeur attracted attention.[12]

And what I am saying is that when the energy in the Bermuda Triangle rises, for example, matter changes. When the energy that the Sun is producing rises, the spiraling coil wave from the Sun actually expands, pushing the planets into spheres of energy that maintain a higher frequency of vibration. My research suggests that the actual physical sizes of the planets expand spontaneously when this happens - not hugely, but enough.

You can see this in hindsight by going to the idea that if you shrink the radius of the Earth to 55 or 60 percent of its current size, all the continents fit together like a jig-saw puzzle; there's no left-over space. That's called Global Expansion Tectonics.[13]


So as the planet gets farther away from the Sun, it expands on this spiral of energy that the Sun is pumping out at a very slow speed, and it gradually inches farther and farther away. That's why the Ancients said that Earth's year used to be exactly 360 days long, and that they only begrudgingly added the last five and a quarter days after the fall of Atlantis. Five days is just a tiny bump compared to what can happen.

So the farther away you get from the Sun, the more you break into higher levels of vibration represented by a bigger sphere. As the Earth punches into a higher level of energy based on its position to the Sun, it expands in size, because as it moves into that higher energy, the energy within the core actually expands.

What also happens is that this energy ''zaps'' all the creatures that are on the Earth, because the increase in the wavelength of the planetary spiral is accompanied by a spontaneous burst of energy from the Sun - a burst that has qualities of both radiation and intelligence. The ancient Hindus referred to this burst as the ''Somvarta fire at the end of an Age.''

So what has happened in the past, at about 50-million-year intervals, is that all the life that had been on the Earth spontaneously dies. And then, all of a sudden, this higher order of creature shows up. The geologists call this ''punctuated equilibrium.''[14]

A very recent study published by Dr. Bruce Runnegar and other UCLA astrobiologists supports the theory I am discussing. It's been all over the mainstream news since the end of June. The researchers looked at the planetary orbits and ran them back through time with computer simulations that were very precise. To their surprise, they discovered that 65 million years ago, at the time of the most recent mass extinction (of the dinosaurs), there was what they referred to as a ''chaotic change in the resonant frequencies of the Solar System.'' This chaotic change suddenly jostled all the orbits of the inner planets.[15]

While we're here, we should add that all geologists know that the continents broke apart at this time, having once been a single landmass. We also know that the worldwide sea levels suddenly decreased at that time. This was obviously the Earth's sudden increase in size. The hardened crust of the land broke apart, and all the seas drained off into the new cracks, lowering their worldwide levels.

And remember that the geologist's have discovered that every time you have a mass extinction, you also have a mass speciation - that is, new species arise. That's another aspect of what happens when this energy ''zaps'' us, causing the planets and their orbits to expand.

For example, there is no ''missing link'' between Neanderthal man and Cro-Magnon (modern man) because what happened was that Neanderthal got ''zapped'' and spontaneously evolved. They grew much larger brains and lost the clumsiness of their bodies.


This is where it gets kind of strange. This anomalous change, this spontaneous evolution in the presence of new energy, is also happening to the whole Solar System. In other words, it's not just that the Earth is drifting away from the Sun to go into a new position. At the same time the Sun, also, is ready to break out into a new level of energy in the Galaxy. This doesn't always happen. According to Ra, right now we are actually arriving at the end of a 75,000-year galactic cycle at the same time that we are arriving at the end of a more common 25,000-year planetary cycle.

As a galaxy evolves, expanding spheres of energy continue to engulf the stars in that galaxy with higher and higher levels of vibration. This is now causing the intergalactic space around our Solar System to become more and more highly charged. This charge is in turn absorbed by the Sun and radiated throughout the Solar System. So the current ''shift'' is really a unique event for all forms of vibrational life in our area of the Galaxy, not just for those on Earth.[16]


Here are some measurable changes in our Solar System which suggest that this evolutionary leap is going to happen soon:


We're having solar activity never before witnessed - at least not in recorded history. We're having sunspot activity on a scale never before seen. We're having radiation emissions, proton emissions and other anomalous energy bursts. All of these things are stepping up in frequency in a way that's never before been seen. In fact, the solar emissions are getting so intense that they are frying many of our satellites. In certain cases we are unable to measure these solar emissions because we never expected that they would get this high, and all our scientific models have to be revised. [17]


Another thing that I think is really interesting is that the actual quality of the space between the planets is changing. The space between the planets is actually conducting energy better.

The meaning of this is actually quite simple: The Sun releases charged, radioactive particles, such as energetic protons. NASA used to have very convenient scientific models for how long it would take those protons to travel to the Earth. Now, in some cases these protons are traveling up to 400 percent faster than the models expect.[18]

So what's happening is that the Sun itself is actually changing. Its magnetic field is actually getting larger. Its energy is changing. The energy between the planets is changing, conducting the Sun's energy faster. Particles are moving faster through space. The actual visible plasma energy in space between the planets is getting brighter.


Dmitriev's work shows that the planets themselves are changing. They are undergoing changes in their atmospheres. For example the Martian atmosphere is getting sizably thicker than it was before. The Mars observer probe in 1997 lost one of its mirrors, which caused it to crash, because the atmosphere was about twice as dense as they calculated, and basically the wind on that little mirror was so high that it blew it right off the device.[19]


Also, the moon is growing an atmosphere that's made up of a compound Dmitriev refers to as ''Natrium.'' Dmitriev says that, around the moon, there is this 6,000-kilometer-deep layer of Natrium that wasn't there before.

And we're having this kind of change in Earth's atmosphere in the upper levels, where HO gas is forming that wasn't there before; it simply did not exist in the quantity that it does now. It's not related to global warming and it's not related to CFCs or fluorocarbon emissions or any of that stuff. It's just showing up.


The planets are experiencing sizable changes in their overall brightness. Venus, for example, is showing us marked increases in its overall brightness. Jupiter has gotten to have such a high energetic charge that there is actually a visible tube of ionizing radiation that's formed between Jupiter and its moon, Io. You can actually see the luminous energy tube in photographs that have been taken more recently.[20]

And the planets are having a change in their magnetic fields. The magnetic fields are becoming stronger. Jupiter's magnetic field has more than doubled. Uranus's magnetic field is changing. Neptune's magnetic field is increasing.[21] These planets are becoming brighter. Their magnetic field strength is getting higher. Their atmospheric qualities are changing.


When the Voyager 2 space probe flew past Uranus and Neptune, the apparent north and south magnetic poles were sizably offset from where the rotational pole was. In one case, it was 50 degrees off, and in the other case the difference was around 40 degrees, both of which are pretty big changes.[22]

The overall changes could essentially be broken down into three categories: Energy field changes, luminosity changes, and atmospheric changes.


On the Earth, we're seeing the changes even more completely. For example, Michael Mandeville has done research that has shown that the overall volcanic activity on the Earth since 1875 has increased by roughly 500 percent. The overall earthquake activity has increased by 400 percent just since 1973. [23]


Dr. Dmitriev did a very elaborate calculation of natural disasters. He showed that if you compare the years 1963 through 1993, the overall amount of natural disasters of all different kinds - whether you are talking hurricanes, typhoons, mud slides, tidal waves, you name it - have increased by 410 percent.


There's a study by Dr. Mike Lockwood from Rutherford Appleton National Laboratories in California, who has been investigating the Sun. He has discovered that since 1901, the overall magnetic field of the Sun has become 230 percent stronger than it was before.[24]


So, all in all, what we're seeing is a lot more than just what they call Earth Changes. Some people get into the idea that there is an interaction between the Earth and the Sun that's going on here. Very, very few people are aware of the work that is being done in the Russian National Academy of Sciences in Siberia, specifically in Novosibirsk, where they are doing this research. They've come to the conclusion that the only possible thing that could be causing this energetic change all throughout the Solar System is that we are moving into an area of energy that is different - that is higher.[25]


Now, check this out. The Sun itself has a magnetic field, of course, and that magnetic field creates an egg around the Solar System, which is known as the heliosphere. The heliosphere is shaped like a teardrop, with the long and thin end of the drop pointing in the opposite direction from the direction that we're traveling. It's just like a comet, where the tail is always pointing away from the Sun.

The Russians have looked at the leading edge of this heliosphere, and they have observed glowing, excited plasma energy there.[26] This plasma energy used to be 10 astronomical units deep (an astronomical unit is the distance from the Earth to the Sun, 93,000,000 miles). So ten astronomical units represents the normal thickness of this glowing energy that we used to see at the front end of the Solar System.

Today, that glowing plasma has gone to 100 astronomical units deep. Although Dmitriev's paper does not give an exact timeline, we can assume that this increase happened in the same 1963 to 1993 period as the increase he found in natural disasters. Whenever it happened, that's a 1,000 percent increase in the overall brightness of the energy at the front end of the Solar System.

And this means that the Solar System itself is moving into an area where the energy is more highly charged. That higher-charged energy is in turn exciting the plasma and causing more of it to form, so you see more luminosity, more brightness. This energy is then flowing into the Sun, which in turn emits the energy and spreads it out along its equatorial plane, which is called the Ecliptic. This in turn is saturating interplanetary space, which causes the solar emissions to travel more quickly and charge up the energy on the planets.

And this is conscious energy that is changing how the planet works, how it functions, and what kind of life it supports. The harmonics of the DNA spiral itself are altering. That's the real, hidden cause of spontaneous mass evolutions in previous epochs of time.

All this is happening all at the same time, and it's all working up to a crescendo where there is going to be a sudden shift.

In other words, we will get to the point where we are so far into the new level of energy that there will be a sudden expansion of the basic harmonic wavelengths that the Sun emits as it radiates energy out of itself. This increase inenergy emission will change the basic nature of all matter in the Solar System. The planets are pushed slightly fartheraway from the Sun and the atoms and molecules that make them up actually expand in terms of their physical size.


So what we are basically talking about here is conscious energy that changes how the planet functions and what kind of life it supports.

And when we realize that we are more than our physical bodies, we have no need to be afraid of this energetic change. When this new energy comes out of the Sun, we will naturally be transported into a higher level of our own being. Our physical body becomes irrelevant at that point. We are much more than that.

As we've alluded to before, the blast of energy that will come is conscious. It will look like fire, but it's really conscious energy.

Here's another example of how this happened in the past. In a previous geologic era on Earth [the Paleozoic], the predominant species was this little crab called the Trilobite. They got blasted - you find in the fossil records that they were all killed. But what you don't see is that their group soul evolved into whatever the next stage of evolution was.

The dinosaurs got blasted. Their souls turned into mammal souls. So nobody goes anywhere, nobody is actually extinguished. We can find the bodies and it looks cataclysmic, it looks horrible - but all they really do is just bump up another notch and start to inhabit different bodies.


If you're very attached to your physical body, you might say, ''Well, what would I be without it?'' You might see this as traumatic, but in fact your experience could be looked at as Soul graduation.

People are saying, ''I'm doing my spiritual growth. I'm doing my path. I'm walking in my truth. I'm trying to grow spiritually, I'm trying to evolve.'' Evolve to what? Grow to what? Are we just going to keep reincarnating over and over again as humans? No.

Is the Earth going to remain in this vibrational level where human beings will blow up bombs, poison its waters, pollute its atmosphere, kill its creatures, and cut down all the trees? No. The Earth is not expected to go through this.

The Earth is an evolving being, too. The difference with the Earth, unlike a regular human lifetime, is that it goes through a very premeditated, very obvious course of its evolution. As it orbits around the Sun, and as the Solar System orbits around the Galaxy, the extraterrestrial races that are in higher dimensions know exactly when these changes are going to happen.

That's why they're here now, because basically they're aware that this is going on, and are standing by to assist us. They're aware that, just as the vortex of energy has caused airplanes to disappear in the Bermuda Triangle, when the Sun's energy bumps up another notch, matter on Earth will be transmuted. The Sun's energy can cause matter to just physically transmute.

When transmutation occurs, creatures like animals and plants may appear to be dead, but what happens to the human body will actually be alchemical transmutation. So it's not as though there's going to be all these fried corpses lying around. When the energy hits you, you transform. Your body will actually transmute itself.

There is a parallel in the Shroud of Turin, where certain researchers have found that Jesus' body burned a complete three-dimensional image of itself into the cloth. And they found through experimentation that such a burn could only be caused by an instantaneous blast at a very high temperature, ''zapping'' the cloth like an X-ray film.


The basic date for the ''shift'' corresponds to the end of the Mayan Calendar - December 2012.

Ra makes the suggestion that the Mayan Calendar was given to the Mayans by high-level sixth-density extraterrestrials so that they would have a tool with which to time the passage of these cycles. It's a good thing to know how these cycles work, because they are tied in with history (see Ra article).


The only thing that matters is how much Love you are willing to share.

It would be so easy to miss this fantastic opportunity to participate in the evolution that is happening here and now on our planet.

The media is bent on creating a reality where our happiness is contingent on the acquisition of new products. We seek the best jobs and the highest status as we succumb to the mass illusions of ''consensus reality'' and ''winning the game.''

Each of us has the choice to create our lives so that we may participate in the Utopian world that will manifest on Earth after this Ascension process has completed - a world without poverty, hunger or pain; a world where full-body levitation, spontaneous healings, instant telepathic communication, and abundant Love are the law of the land.

This is the world that Jesus promised us in John 14:12, when he said, ''As I do these things, so shall you do them, and greater things.''

It comes back to question: What are you going to hold o nto? You have to leave behind the physical life in order to participate in the Ascension. You have to be willing to move into a life that is spiritual. You have to be willing to give up the things that you once thought were important - your car, your material effects, your earthly status, your earthly fame and power - because you're basically only going to take yourself. You can't bring anything with you. No money, no credit cards, no gold coins.

When you leave your body and move into these higher realms of consciousness, all those earthly things will be meaningless. When you get out of this world without these braces, guess what? Your memory will be your sole companion.

And then you will realize that the only thing that ever mattered was how much love you were willing to share while you were incarnated on Earth.

The Spirit of Ma'at wishes to thank Terry Brown for her work in transcribing the tapes from Wynn's three-hour interview with David.

[Edgar Cayce and David Wilcock] David Wilcock believes that he is a reincarnation of Edgar Cayce. But he's not insisting on this (see pictures at left - you decide). Like Cayce, David does ''readings,'' but rather than health, the subject matter gives a 'higher self'' overview of information that the individual needs to help in evolution of consciousness.

David has focused on the mission of bringing cutting-edge scientific research to bear upon the subject of indigenous prophecy, UFOs, and the coming ''shift'' that Gregg Braden and others also talk of. Like many others who are concerned with planetary ascension, he sees a Golden Age coming soon for humanity.

In addition to immersion in hard science, especially the physics of the cosmos, David ''channels'' an entity known as Ra, who has spoken through others, as well. Channeled information received on ascension from Ra (by another source, L/L Research), is in this magazine at The Universe According to Ra, also written by Wynn Free.

http://www.dnaindia....?NewsID=1090744


http://www.indiadail...torial/4655.asp

A lot of articles are there in India Daily, I suggest wherever they have pointed and specific reference they be taken seriously.






http://www.indiadail...l/11-01m-04.asp

Raju,
Lot of Indiadaily articles contain fake reports. Just put the links so that people can read it but we dont want discussion on those things.
Solar fares, tectonic shifts and other natural events will be foretold.




There is a purpose for this thread and it will be used as a demonstration to show how the western media controls an event and uses media to drive what it wants for its goals.

Acharya, I will just put one more India Daily article. Just because a lot of what is left unsaid by the govts & mainstream media, find (atleast) crude explanations here. viz Why are all new manned missions being postponed to a date beyond 2012. etc

http://www.indiadail...orial/14929.asp

Mihir Sen
Dec. 29, 2006

Raju I had to edit your post and make it smaller.
Lot of info is obtained by knowing the correct information and also the source of the information.

2012 is being used by all sorts of govts and agencies and religions, EJs for it sown goal.

We are discussing here to remove all the propaganda and bring the correct info.

Lunar mission has lot of unknowns. Hence lot of BS can be put by various agencies.

Acharya, feel free to edit the posts. I can live with that.

We need objectivity.

Indiadaily cannot be considered objective



Did you get my email

http://www.jayweidne...12Topology.html


According to the mythology of the Yuga system there are four ages of life and time on our planet. It is important to remember that there are many cycles within cycles in the Hindu Yuga system so the years mentioned next may have to do with a larger cycle than the one addressed in this article. Perhaps the huge number of years referred to below is the cycle of the solar system as it circles another star or perhaps it is a portion of the great cycle of one revolution around the galactic center.

The first age is the Satya Yuga or the Golden Age according to Fulcanelli. The Hindu texts tell us that this age lasts 1,728,000 years. This is an age of extreme splendour when the beings on our planet appear to live much longer than they do now. In this age there are no wars, famines strife or evil.

The second age is called the Treta Yuga, or the Silver age. As in the second law of thermodynamics, or entropy, things begin to slip in this age and the beings on Earth begin to deteriorate. This slippage, at least during this second age is the beginning of corruption and evil is introduced into the planetary sphere. This age lasts 1,296,000 years according to the Vedic texts of India.

The third age of this cycle is called the Dvapara Age, or the Bronze Age. This is the beginning of the �fall� of humanity. In this age corruption comes on more fully, evil begins to spread and things start to fall into disharmony. This age lasts 864,000 years.

The last age is called the Kali Yuga, or the Iron Age. This age is the age we are in right now. Evil and corruption become the driving force as greed, wars, famine and disease spread across the planet like a tidal wave of death and destruction. This age lasts, according to the Hindu texts for 432,000 years. (For more information see also Tolkien at the End of Time: Alchemical Secrets of the Lord of the Rings by Jay Weidner and Sharron Rose at jayweidner.com, or see Reflections on the Cycle of the Great Yuga by Sharron Rose at sharronrose.com).

What is important to understand while discussing these huge numbers found in the Hindu texts is that they are describing the four ages within a context of understanding that each successive age is shorter than the previous age. The Satya Yuga, or the Golden Age, is one quarter longer than the Treta Yuga, or the Silver Age. The Treta Yuga is one quarter longer than the Dvapara Yuga, or the Bronze Age. Understanding these differences in the lengths of the ages becomes important to the following discussion.

According to Fulcanelli and the cross at Hendaye, the alchemical Four Ages comprise the four quadrants of a 25,920 yearlong cycle called the precession of the equinoxes. Essentially, the precession of the equinoxes can be explained by the fact that our Earth has a wobble. Like a top spinning on the floor, as it begins to lose momentum this wobble of the earth takes nearly 26,000 years to unfold. The strange engraving of the four �A�s� (see illustration A) on the cross of Hendaye is a "hieroglyph of the universe", according to Fulcanelli. It is "comprised of the conventional signs of heaven and earth, the spiritual and the temporal, the macrocosm and the microcosm, in which major emblems of the redemption (cross) and the world (circle) are found in association".
The Precession of the Equinoxes

What Fulcanelli appears to be saying here is that the precession of the equinoxes is to be divided into four distinct ages of 6480 years each (4 divided into 25,920) or, to round off the figures to approximately 6500 years each. This is also interesting because the zodiacal cycle, which lasts 25,920 years, has four fixed signs. These are the signs of Aquarius, Taurus, Leo and Scorpio. These four signs are separated by 6,500 years each. Also in the Book of Ezekiel and in the Book of Revelation we are told of the angel with four faces. This angel has the face of a Lion (Leo), a Bull (Taurus), a Man (the angel) and an Eagle (in older times Scorpio was represented by an eagle instead of a scorpion). Apparently, according to Fulcanelli, both of these books in the Bible are warnings and messages about the four quadrants of the precession of the equinoxes and appear to be telling us that there is some kind of great change whenever we arrive at one of these four signs.

Of course it is well known that we are currently entering the Age of Aquarius. The Cross at Hendaye and Fulcanelli are telling us that there are tremendous changes to be found here on Earth when we enter into one of the four fixed signs. Apparently these changes can be cataclysmic.

Obviously this 6,500 year long dating of the four alchemical ages disagrees with the Hindu Yuga system, which insists that each Yuga is of varying time lengths. It is in trying to iron out the dissimilarities in these two time periods that the hyperdimensional aspects of time can be best revealed.

http://www.indiadail...l/12-04e-04.asp

Jay Weidner essay on Kubrick's 2001

2001: A Space Odyssey (1968)
Writing credits
Arthur C. Clarke story The Sentinel (uncredited) &
Arthur C. Clarke screenplay &
Stanley Kubrick screenplay

Produced by
Stanley Kubrick .... producer
Victor Lyndon .... associate producer (uncredited)

Cinematography by
Geoffrey Unsworth

Film Editing by
Ray Lovejoy

http://edviswanathan...of-universe.htm

Mayan theories of creation:


18. Like Hindu astronomers Mayans computed the length of earth revolution around Sun to within 1/1000th of a Decimal point. Their recording goes up to 400,000 years in the past.



19 Mayan's 5125 year "GREAT CYCLE OF EVENTS" which began 3113 B.C [Hindu kali yuga started at the same time] ends in A.D. 2012. Mayans believe that there will be great transformation to mankind by year 2012. According to Mayan's theory, by the year A.D. 2012 a global society will emerge, when all of us will be extremely closer to one another since all of us will know all about each other.

MAYAN CALENDAR ENDS on December 21, 2012
What will happen after that date?


I for one believe that all the humanity will enter into a super consciousness after that day, when all of us think alike------entering into NIRVIKALPA SAMDHI.

20 Like Hindus, Mayans believe in a universe of infinite cycles of time. Mayans believe that our solar system is 7th of that kind. Hindus mythology talks about 7 heavens 7 hells and 7 earths.

21 . Mayans like Hindus also believed in BODY FORCES and treatment of body by properly understanding those forces and treating the body accordingly. I feel, modern science will eventually will take lessons from Mayans and Hindus and will start treating the body just as BIO-ELECTRO MAGNETIC NET WORK and start treating it as a COMPUTER or as a ROBOT.

A day may come, when AIDS will be treated as a blockage in BIO-ELECTRIC NET WORK made by powerful negative GUILTY CONSCIOUSNESS THOUGHTS. [ Of course thoughts are just small specs of electricity in the brain].

21. Did Mayans get the name from Hindus? The word Maya in Sanskrit means ILLUSION. The name of Lord Buddha's mother was MAYA.

In the epic Mahabharata, there is a description of a wandering tribe of navigators, who are called Maya. Can that Maya be the Mayans of Mexico? According archaeologists, the word Mayan came from the word MAYAB, the term usually used to describe Yucatan Peninsula or the name originate from the Roman goddess MAIA!!!

22. How can we disregard Hindu & Mayan theories about creation if we decide to teach children about creation.

Hindu Mythology believes in legend of Agartha, it is believed that it will be in Agartha where Kalki will be born and post-2012 will reveal himself on earth.

http://www.hindudhar...hread.php?t=626



&



Swami Dayanand Saraswati thus spoke;



Dr Ram Bhosle, an aged healer and a freedom fighter of Mumbai, had to flee to the Himalayas to escape an British arrest warrant. In Himalayas he had the good fortune to meet Mahaavatar Babaji, preceptor of the Kriya Yoga, (introduced to the world by Swami Paramahansa Yogananda in his book The Autobiography of a Yogi), narrates his experience with the holy man thus:

http://vitalcoaching...ortalenigma.htm



Nicholas Roerich, a famous Russian explorer, artist and mystic, traversed the myserious regions of Himalayas during the 1920s and 30s, specifically in search of the lost realm of Shambala. He wrote a book titled Shambhala, which was published in 1930, along with Himalayas: Abode of Light and Heart of Asia.

He associates it with the underground city of "Agharti" and with the "White Island", and that its "Splendid Valley" is reached via subterranean passages from the Himalayas. ".He further adds that "the underground caverns of Central Asia are inhabited to this day by the people called the Agharti, or Chud, and that when the time of purification comes, say the legends, they will emerge in their glory

What we can infer is there is body of seekers who want to unravel this mystery of the Mayan calender end of time.

What is amazing is the persistent search over generations and lands.

What is driving them?

Are they really seekers or controllers of the explanation of the event?

Also Raju, This Agartha stuff seems a variation of the Aryan origins of the Nordics.

I mean is there really place called Villenoor?

And how does this reconcile with the Unmasking AIT thread(post # 231) which has link that Honsol commented on posted about blonde humans etc in China.

Shambhala is supposed to be the capital of Agartha. It is in Shambhala (village) that Vishnu avatara will take birth. So it is very much on earth, yet hidden away from us.

I think everyone starts out as a seeker, then the seekers become the controllers and guide the newer seekers. Probably this is how it works.



a french student of Indian mythology. Where is he likely to visit ?

I guess Pondichery. There is a panchayat by that name near Pondi

What we can infer is there is body of seekers who want to unravel this mystery of the Mayan calender end of time.

What is amazing is the persistent search over generations and lands.

What is driving them?


If one goes thru the authors of all the sites in this thread we see that some of th authors are on 2012 for the last 20 years.
They have been researching and studying the coming event and the stories and culture of that event in every civilization.

Why do they study it?
The west is very much concerned about the course of History and future of their civilization and culture.

The study helps them with clues of which direction the world will go in the near term and long term course of history.

2012 is a FORK of history when the world changes. They want to be in the right side of history whichever way the history forks into.

It could mass conciousness or mass awareness of the world. They want to lead it and create the history for it before anybody else does it. This gives the power and leadership to change the world and rest of the world have to follow them.

Are they really seekers or controllers of the explanation of the event ?

They want to know all bout the event and with that information control the story and history of the event to their version and culture. That would be ultimate control of the future in their hands and rest of the world would hardly know about it.

They want to be in the lead about the story and build a force of history including religious expansion which would be in their total control since they have media and thought control.

One example is the baby boomer generation which was indoctrinated with 2001 movie in 1968.

Kalki Avatar of Lord Vishnu

Srimad Bhagavtam states in Verse 12, chapter 2, Text 18:

sambhala-grama-mukhyasya
brahmanasya mahatmanah
bhavane visnuyasasah
kalkih pradurbhavisyati

According to this verse, Lord Vishnu will take the Kalki Avatar at the Sambhala village at the end of Kali Yuga to establish the oncoming Satya Yuga. Padma Purana (6.242.8-12) also mentions that the name of the village is Sambhala. This village is supposed not to exist today, but to be be born in due time, from the inner earth. The Tibetan lore speaks of a city named Shamballa which they consider to be in the interior of the earth on the Himalayas. Thus the Satya Yuga with its truly Vedic civilization will be established on the surface of the earth from its interior.

Scandinavia is named after their Goddess Skadi (Goddess of Winter).

http://www.religious....org/asatru.htm

In relation to Acharya's post #56 here are two synopsis of Issac Asimov's foundation series of SF books. Here while describing a SF world Asimov uses allegory to describe human past as future SF.


1) Templeton Review of Foundation

2)Wikipedia on Foundation

I know its SF but I think enlightened individuals had to resort to SF to project and influence thinking an thought process.

Read the wiki article about how the series influenced people far and wide and supposedly non Western types.

And if you complete the Foundation basics- trilogy then go to

Star Maker by Olaf Stapleton 1937

This would be mind boggling. Please read it.


There is a 'Second Foundation Trilogy', commissioned by Asimov's estate, written after his death.
They include Foundation and Chaos, Foundation's Fear and Foundation's Triumph.

http://www.vavatch.co.uk/books/asimov/

Acharya,
Why should jingos read this science fiction stuff? Isnt it waste of time and distracts from the purpose of finding out about AIT, secular machinations etc., etc?

Why should jingos read this science fiction stuff? Isnt it waste of time and distracts from the purpose of finding out about AIT, secular machinations etc., etc?

These SF are not ordinary SF but there is secret code in these Asimov Foundation Series.
The secret code is the plan for grand

ROMAN SECOND EMPIRE!

What exactly do you mean? How can the second Roman Empire come about?
As everyone knows Foundation is group of people protecting kowldege to revive the old Empire and its all SF. No plan wans.

Can you give examples of the whole thing?
Who is the:
- Foundation
- Hari Sheldon
- Mule
- Second Foundation
- The traders who do they correspond to?
- How does the Foundation plan to restore the supremacy of the Empire?
- Does the new Empire have to be of the old order or successors in mental make-up to the old order?

Hari (Sanskrit: हरि) is another name of Vishnu.

Seldon was born in the 10th month of the 11,988th year of the Galactic Era (GE) (-79 Foundation Era (FE)) and died 12,069 GE (1 FE)
Using psychohistory, Seldon found the right time and place to set up a new society, one that would replace the collapsing Galactic Empire by sheer force of social pressure, over a thousand-year time span.

Foundation owes its genesis to young Asimov reading Edward Gibbon's Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire. As the author explains, he started thinking, what would happen if he described the fall of a GALACTIC Empire? Armed with a "science" of history known as psychohistory, Asimov and his editor John W. Campbell set about trying to describe the fall and rebirth of that mythic Empire. While the trilogy (and even the subsequent sequels) did not finish the 1,000-year cycle, enough was described to bring about some rather intriguing fiction.

Asimov, of course, is fond of puzzles involving logic. While logic is rather hazy regarding human behavior (the "Laws of Psychohistory" are deliberately kept off-stage), the characters are nevertheless able to make guesses that fall within the expectations of said logic.

The prime element in the resurrection of the Empire is, of course, Hari Seldon, the greatest psychohistorian in history. Seeing through his equations that the galaxy is about to fall into ruin, Seldon strives to create a "Foundation" which will preserve the wisdom of the old empire when the collapse comes(300AD). This Foundation will ensure that, instead of thousands of years of barbarism following the collapse, only 1,000 years will ensue(2012). The Foundation begins harmlessly enough, as a scientific organization, designed to write the "Encyclopedia Galactica," a repository for all the galaxy's knowledge. However, as the Empire falls and the scientists of the Foundation are isolated by the barbarism on the galactic periphery (in a series of "Seldon Crises"), it becomes much more. That is the basic context of the first book in the series.

Seldon also creates a "Second Foundation." The purpose of this organization, located at "Star's End," is to monitor the Seldon plan and make sure the First Foundation comes to no harm in its slow quest to restore the Empire.

If some of this sounds vaguely like Star Wars, you wouldn't be far wrong. Much of that trilogy owes its existence to Asimov's work. The most blatant example is the planet Coruscant, which echoes Asimov's Trantor, the capital world of the Empire, which is an entire world-city.

My favorite book in the Foundation series is Foundation and Empire, because they offer the most opportunity for action and challenge for the Foundation. As the series originally appeared as a series of short stories and novellas in Campbell's Astounding, the "novel" is really two stories. In the first story, the Foundation finds itself facing its first real threat--a strong Empire at the galactic core, with a strong general capable of defeating the Foundation. In the next contest, the Foundation comes up against a telepathic enemy known as "The Mule," who starts mucking about with the Foundation's path toward eventual Empire.

The third book, Second Foundation, describes a search for the "Second Foundation." This search comes in earnest, after the setbacks the First Foundation faced in the second book. Asimov manages to end the stories well, and Asimov manages to keep the reader guessing.

I really enjoyed the series when I read it in high school. The stories were great exercises in logic and managed to provide some sense of adventure. Looking back, I can see some "primitive" technological aspects of Asimov's "Future History," but that takes little away from the story. One innovation for this series was the invention of the pocket calculator (the stories appeared in the early '40s). Asimov took reluctant credit for the invention since, like Heinlein's water bed, he never thought of patenting it.

This is actually an excellent, kid-friendly introduction to science fiction, as it presents a lot of mental puzzles and very little violence. Given the time it was written and Asimov's own literary tastes, it is rather free from violence, sex, or other "adult situations." There have been grander epics, but this is one of the first to appear in science fiction form. Read from the master, and learn.

Long before the notion of using a vision of the future to help shape the future(2012), there was Foundation by Isaac Asimov. This popular book and series have undoubtedly played a role in developing the importance of vision in our society in the 50 years since these stories were first written.

The book is also prescient in another way. The current best thinking about problem solving is that scenario-based exercises are the best way to prepare to influence the future. Sure enough, that is what Asimov was talking about with Seldon's forecasting techniques. To prepare and influence History is the biggest weapon of the west against all other cultures.

If that was all that Asimov accomplished, this would be one of the greatest science fiction novels of all time. But he did even more. He conceptualized the significance of finding offsets to the kind of bureaucratic stalls that can delay progress. While Joseph Heller was inventing Catch 22 to identify the problem, Asimov was already onto the cure. Asimov's solution: a secret second foundation that works behind the scenes without bureaucracy to do the real work of making a difference. In my own research on how change happens in organizations, it is always the stealth activities that work best.

In a sense, any view of history would lead to the same conclusion -- that progress and regression will usually succeed one another in that order. That was the point of Toynbee's work on history. Asimov has made that point very elegantly here.

Psychohistory is the study of the psychological motivations of historical events. It combines the insights of psychotherapy with the research methodology of the social sciences to understand the emotional origin of the social and political behavior of groups and nations, past and present. This field of study is considered by some to have significant differences from the mainstream fields of history and psychology.

Psychohistory derives many of its insights from areas that are perceived to be ignored by conventional historians as shaping factors of human history, in particular, the effects of childbirth, parenting practice, and child abuse. The historical impact of incest, infanticide and child sacrifice are considered. Psychohistory holds that human societies can change between infanticidal and non-infanticidal practices and has coined the term "early infanticidal childrearing" to describe abuse and neglect observed by many anthropologists. Lloyd deMause, the pioneer of psychohistory, has described a system of psychogenic modes which describe the range of styles of parenting he has observed historically and across cultures.

Many political scientists and historians teach that social behavior is usually for rational reasons rather than irrational ones, and that international violence is often instigated for economic gain. Psychohistorians, on the other hand, suggest that social behavior may be a self-destructive re-enactment of earlier abuse and neglect; that unconscious flashbacks to early fears and destructive parenting could dominate individual and social behavior.

Copy and paste job ...
http://www.amazon.co...v/dp/0385188307

Please read further - many more links - please put more links into this
thread please. Lot of copy and paste onlee. Everything is available in the net.


We need discussion on why there is great interest in 2012 and why all the cultures have been studied to create their version of history.

Look near last para of this article

http://www.livinglak.../credomutwa.htm

http://www.bibliotec...esp_2012_03.htm

http://www.bibliotec...inecosmos_9.htm

This thread reminds me of a hindi couplet:




P.S. I think only "Alok Niranjan" will appreciate this.

The FOUNDATION SERIES may be described as written with Bhang

Acharya: Just a few comments, take it FWIW
(I am fairly familiar with mathematical part of ancient Indian Astronomy having studied Surya Sidhanta (know enough Sanskrit to read and understand a math book) and many other books etc)


The cycle (at least by ancient astronomers/mathematicians , or at least one ( clearly) explained in Surya Sidhanta � you can probably see it in google books, if you want to take a look) comes from 360*12*(100) (�jupitor year� is 12 years, and a �devta�s day� is 100 such years, and the year is 360 such days). (Maha yuga, is of course 4+3+2+1 such yuga , because Sata yuga = 4*kali , and others are 3,2,1times the above cycle)

The period is large enough so that all cycles (Like synodic lunar month, sidereal years of other planets, cycle of precession of equinoxes) will divide into it and give an (approximately enough) integer value. In that sense this length has nothing to do with precession cycle (At least according to Bhaskara charya and other guru�s) ( length of precession *(1/12) or length of �age of xxxxxx� etc according to them is a value which you MEASURE according to your observations � just as you measure length of synodic month etc..) In fact, it is clearly explained there that these are �observable� values which may get �more accurate values� as one gets more accurate observations in future.

There is an attempt to link/�explain� these vales with some �mathematical/mythical ways, which, IMO, in this cases is meaningless.. After all, given any number, one can always find, some �interesting� relationship with �holy� numbers, and try to explain its numerological �significance� but that, in my opinion, is meaning less, and dis-respectful to great mathematicians like Bhaskaracharya.



To me this makes no sense (IMO), To quote the great physicist Pauli it is so absurd that �it�s not even wrong� !!

What is this "plane of our Solar system?� and what is �Plane of Galaxy� .. BTW if by the �plane of our solar system� you mean ecliptic plane the above sentence is even more absurd. (Not even all planets ecliptic plane is exactly same, and no there is no such�26000� year period between �galactic/solar� plane. If one is talking about - precession of equinox (with a cycle roughly 26000 years) it is a VERY local property of our earth�s motion around the sun. and the orientation of the tilt of it�s axis

Sorry, no intension to be disrespectful or harsh but statements like these, to me, makes no sense..

Regards.

From Ashok and Amber's posts its clear there is no scientific rationale for all this hype. Also note its not the Hindus who are studying this so called phenomenon for over twenty years at least. I still ask why are they doing this? looks like there is some popular imagination call it pagan roots that still accords some significance to such planetary line-ups. The subject is being studied to mold this popular imagination for their own use. What is it?

Amber is right. IMO For Hindus the real important year is 2001 and it has already passed.

Why are they looking in other cultures for 2012

scenario-based exercises are the best way to prepare to influence the future.

To prepare and influence History is the biggest weapon of the west against all other cultures.


We need discussion on why there is great interest in 2012 and why all the cultures have been studied to influence history.

As far as Hindus are concerned the important date is 2014 & 2013.

In 2012 the plane of our Solar System will line up exactly with the plane of our Galaxy,

On the winter solstice in 2012, the sun will be aligned with the center of the Milky Way for the first time in about 26,000 years.



According to Srimad Bhagavatam - Kalki is destined to appear when the Sun, Moon and Jupiter together enters Pushya nakshatra ...it then goes to give the description of his birth etc.
This astrological phenomenon happens on 26/27th. July 2014 A.D. at 3:10 P. M. on a Sunday.

I think the critical date is June 10, 2012.

Everyone in my family knows that this is a Sunday, just 4 days after the interesting Transit of Venus.

Okay, I am not making this up. A few decades ago (some time in 70�s) when parental (not to mention aunties and uncles) pressure was high to find out exactly when I was planning to (finally) get married, - I mentioned the above date ( Sunday, June 10th 2012) Since everyone in my family knew I was very interested in astronomy (specially planetary motions � I had access to American Ephemeris and Nautical almanac � not to mention many years of Panchangs and had my own copy of Newcomb�s tables (about 600pages of tables of sun, moon and all the planets)) my rational, I thought, would seem logical After all the day is going to be a Sunday and just four days after the Transit of Venus (2004�s transit was not that convenient)



(For the record, I found even more auspicious day to get married, but we do plan � if we are alive by then � to renew our vows on that Sunday).

Anyway coming back to:



Isaac Asimov once ridiculed some popular pseudo scientific books which dealt with �age of Aquarius� and its �significance�. The authors, of course, had no understanding of precession of equinoxes and making statements like above.

And I think the above authors absolutely have no understanding about what the above sentence implies mathematically. (IOW defined in mathematical precise terms) . Again exactly what is this �alignment� ? (Can some describe it in the terms of standard mathematical language?) You can always draw a straight line between any two points (Sun and center of Galaxy, for example) � so what they are talking about and why it is a special event.

(I think I know what this is about � but let others take a stab at this)

(BTW, also if these these authors mean , what I think mean they mean, then event is not that "precise" Sun being about half a degree wide, at present too would eclipse the center of galaxy - rough calculations shows a period of about 20-30 years for this window which is spread around 2012)

P.S. Did any one here watch the Transit of Venus in 2004?

Ephemeris for Longitude: 122W03 Latitude: 37N54 12:00AM
Date Sun Moon Mars Merc Jupt Venus Sat Rahu
Jun 1,2012: 17Ta12 03Li10 20Le50 23Ta11 03Ta34 24Ta36R 29Vi12R 11Sc03
Jun 2,2012: 18Ta09 18Li02 21Le15 25Ta20 03Ta48 24Ta01R 29Vi10R 11Sc04
Jun 3,2012: 19Ta07 03Sc05 21Le39 27Ta28 04Ta02 23Ta24R 29Vi07R 11Sc04
Jun 4,2012: 20Ta04 18Sc11 22Le04 29Ta35 04Ta16 22Ta47R 29Vi05R 11Sc04
Jun 5,2012: 21Ta02 03Sg09 22Le29 01Ge39 04Ta30 22Ta10R 29Vi03R 11Sc04
Jun 6,2012: 21Ta59 17Sg53 22Le55 03Ge42 04Ta44 21Ta32R 29Vi01R 11Sc03
Jun 7,2012: 22Ta57 02Cp15 23Le21 05Ge42 04Ta58 20Ta55R 29Vi00R 11Sc02
Jun 8,2012: 23Ta54 16Cp12 23Le47 07Ge41 05Ta11 20Ta17R 28Vi58R 11Sc00
Jun 9,2012: 24Ta51 29Cp42 24Le13 09Ge37 05Ta25 19Ta41R 28Vi56R 10Sc59
Jun 10,2012: 25Ta49 12Aq47 24Le39 11Ge31 05Ta39 19Ta05R 28Vi55R 10Sc58
Jun 11,2012: 26Ta46 25Aq28 25Le06 13Ge23 05Ta53 18Ta30R 28Vi53R 10Sc57
Jun 12,2012: 27Ta43 07Pi49 25Le33 15Ge12 06Ta06 17Ta56R 28Vi52R 10Sc57
Jun 13,2012: 28Ta41 19Pi55 26Le00 16Ge58 06Ta20 17Ta24R 28Vi51R 10Sc58
Jun 14,2012: 29Ta38 01Ar50 26Le28 18Ge43 06Ta34 16Ta53R 28Vi50R 11Sc00
Jun 15,2012: 00Ge35 13Ar39 26Le56 20Ge25 06Ta47 16Ta24R 28Vi49R 11Sc01
Jun 16,2012: 01Ge33 25Ar25 27Le24 22Ge04 07Ta01 15Ta57R 28Vi48R 11Sc02
Jun 17,2012: 02Ge30 07Ta14 27Le52 23Ge41 07Ta14 15Ta32R 28Vi47R 11Sc03
Jun 18,2012: 03Ge27 19Ta07 28Le20 25Ge15 07Ta28 15Ta09R 28Vi46R 11Sc03
Jun 19,2012: 04Ge25 01Ge08 28Le49 26Ge46 07Ta41 14Ta48R 28Vi46R 11Sc02
Jun 20,2012: 05Ge22 13Ge17 29Le18 28Ge16 07Ta54 14Ta30R 28Vi45R 11Sc00
Jun 21,2012: 06Ge19 25Ge37 29Le47 29Ge42 08Ta08 14Ta14R 28Vi45R 10Sc56
Jun 22,2012: 07Ge16 08Cn10 00Vi16 01Cn06 08Ta21 14Ta00R 28Vi44R 10Sc52
Jun 23,2012: 08Ge14 20Cn55 00Vi46 02Cn27 08Ta34 13Ta49R 28Vi44R 10Sc48
Jun 24,2012: 09Ge11 03Le55 01Vi16 03Cn46 08Ta47 13Ta40R 28Vi44R 10Sc44
Jun 25,2012: 10Ge08 17Le10 01Vi46 05Cn02 09Ta00 13Ta33R 28Vi44R 10Sc41
Jun 26,2012: 11Ge05 00Vi40 02Vi16 06Cn15 09Ta13 13Ta29R 28Vi44 10Sc39
Jun 27,2012: 12Ge02 14Vi27 02Vi46 07Cn25 09Ta26 13Ta27R 28Vi44 10Sc39
Jun 28,2012: 13Ge00 28Vi30 03Vi16 08Cn32 09Ta39 13Ta28 28Vi44 10Sc40
Jun 29,2012: 13Ge57 12Li49 03Vi47 09Cn36 09Ta52 13Ta30 28Vi45 10Sc41
Jun 30,2012: 14Ge54 27Li21 04Vi18 10Cn38 10Ta05 13Ta35 28Vi45 10Sc42

I did watch the transit of venus. Could see it as bright as a star.
Even mars came to the closest to Earth during that period.

That 20-30 year gap is actually a quarter of the precession cycle (72) year.

It is roughly 18 years. before and after 2012.

The change has started from 1994 to 2030.

Some say the period in 1980-2016

Ephemeris for Longitude: 122W03 Latitude: 37N54 12:00AM
Date Sun Moon Mars Merc Jupt Venus Sat Rahu
Jul 15,2014: 28Ge43 09Aq14 00Li34 08Ge10 05Cn42 02Ge02 22Li37R 29Vi46
Jul 16,2014: 29Ge40 23Aq55 01Li03 09Ge20 05Cn55 03Ge14 22Li36R 29Vi41
Jul 17,2014: 00Cn37 08Pi13 01Li32 10Ge35 06Cn09 04Ge26 22Li36R 29Vi38
Jul 18,2014: 01Cn35 22Pi05 02Li01 11Ge54 06Cn22 05Ge38 22Li35R 29Vi37
Jul 19,2014: 02Cn32 05Ar32 02Li31 13Ge17 06Cn35 06Ge51 22Li35R 29Vi37
Jul 20,2014: 03Cn29 18Ar37 03Li00 14Ge45 06Cn49 08Ge03 22Li35R 29Vi37
Jul 21,2014: 04Cn26 01Ta24 03Li30 16Ge17 07Cn02 09Ge15 22Li35 29Vi35
Jul 22,2014: 05Cn24 13Ta57 04Li01 17Ge53 07Cn15 10Ge28 22Li35 29Vi31
Jul 23,2014: 06Cn21 26Ta17 04Li31 19Ge32 07Cn29 11Ge40 22Li35 29Vi23
Jul 24,2014: 07Cn18 08Ge28 05Li02 21Ge16 07Cn42 12Ge53 22Li36 29Vi13
Jul 25,2014: 08Cn16 20Ge31 05Li33 23Ge02 07Cn55 14Ge05 22Li36 29Vi01
Jul 26,2014: 09Cn13 02Cn30 06Li04 24Ge53 08Cn09 15Ge18 22Li37 28Vi48
Jul 27,2014: 10Cn10 14Cn24 06Li36 26Ge46 08Cn22 16Ge31 22Li37 28Vi34
Jul 28,2014: 11Cn08 26Cn15 07Li07 28Ge41 08Cn35 17Ge43 22Li38 28Vi22
Jul 29,2014: 12Cn05 08Le05 07Li39 00Cn39 08Cn49 18Ge56 22Li39 28Vi11
Jul 30,2014: 13Cn02 19Le56 08Li12 02Cn39 09Cn02 20Ge09 22Li40 28Vi03
Jul 31,2014: 14Cn00 01Vi51 08Li44 04Cn41 09Cn15 21Ge22 22Li41 27Vi58
Aug 1,2014: 14Cn57 13Vi53 09Li17 06Cn44 09Cn29 22Ge35 22Li42 27Vi55
Aug 2,2014: 15Cn55 26Vi06 09Li50 08Cn48 09Cn42 23Ge47 22Li43 27Vi54
Aug 3,2014: 16Cn52 08Li35 10Li23 10Cn53 09Cn55 25Ge00 22Li44 27Vi54
Aug 4,2014: 17Cn49 21Li24 10Li56 12Cn58 10Cn08 26Ge13 22Li45 27Vi54
Aug 5,2014: 18Cn47 04Sc38 11Li29 15Cn03 10Cn22 27Ge26 22Li47 27Vi53
Aug 6,2014: 19Cn44 18Sc20 12Li03 17Cn08 10Cn35 28Ge39 22Li48 27Vi50
Aug 7,2014: 20Cn42 02Sg32 12Li37 19Cn13 10Cn48 29Ge52 22Li50 27Vi45
Aug 8,2014: 21Cn39 17Sg11 13Li11 21Cn17 11Cn01 01Cn06 22Li52 27Vi38
Aug 9,2014: 22Cn37 02Cp13 13Li45 23Cn20 11Cn15 02Cn19 22Li54 27Vi29
Aug 10,2014: 23Cn34 17Cp29 14Li20 25Cn22 11Cn28 03Cn32 22Li56 27Vi20
Aug 11,2014: 24Cn32 02Aq48 14Li55 27Cn23 11Cn41 04Cn45 22Li58 27Vi11
Aug 12,2014: 25Cn29 17Aq59 15Li30 29Cn23 11Cn54 05Cn58 23Li00 27Vi04
Aug 13,2014: 26Cn27 02Pi52 16Li05 01Le22 12Cn07 07Cn12 23Li02 27Vi00
Aug 14,2014: 27Cn25 17Pi22 16Li40 03Le19 12Cn20 08Cn25 23Li04 26Vi57
Aug 15,2014: 28Cn22 01Ar23 17Li15 05Le15 12Cn33 09Cn39 23Li07 26Vi57

Feb 21 2013 is most significant for Hindus.

Ephemeris for Longitude: 122W03 Latitude: 37N54 12:00AM
Date Sun Moon Mars Merc Jupt Venus Sat Rahu
Feb 10,2013: 27Cp42 28Cp03 12Aq29 13Aq47 12Ta29 16Cp15 17Li24 27Li22
Feb 11,2013: 28Cp43 12Aq11 13Aq16 15Aq19 12Ta31 17Cp30 17Li25 27Li10
Feb 12,2013: 29Cp44 25Aq58 14Aq03 16Aq47 12Ta34 18Cp46 17Li26 26Li58
Feb 13,2013: 00Aq44 09Pi19 14Aq51 18Aq12 12Ta36 20Cp01 17Li26 26Li49
Feb 14,2013: 01Aq45 22Pi16 15Aq38 19Aq31 12Ta39 21Cp16 17Li27 26Li42
Feb 15,2013: 02Aq46 04Ar51 16Aq25 20Aq45 12Ta42 22Cp31 17Li27 26Li39
Feb 16,2013: 03Aq46 17Ar06 17Aq12 21Aq52 12Ta46 23Cp46 17Li28 26Li37
Feb 17,2013: 04Aq47 29Ar06 18Aq00 22Aq52 12Ta49 25Cp01 17Li28 26Li37
Feb 18,2013: 05Aq47 10Ta57 18Aq47 23Aq44 12Ta53 26Cp16 17Li28 26Li37
Feb 19,2013: 06Aq48 22Ta45 19Aq34 24Aq28 12Ta57 27Cp31 17Li28R 26Li36
Feb 20,2013: 07Aq48 04Ge35 20Aq21 25Aq03 13Ta01 28Cp46 17Li28R 26Li33
Feb 21,2013: 08Aq49 16Ge32 21Aq09 25Aq28 13Ta05 00Aq01 17Li28R 26Li27
Feb 22,2013: 09Aq49 28Ge40 21Aq56 25Aq44 13Ta09 01Aq16 17Li27R 26Li19
Feb 23,2013: 10Aq50 11Cn01 22Aq43 25Aq50 13Ta14 02Aq31 17Li27R 26Li08
Feb 24,2013: 11Aq50 23Cn39 23Aq30 25Aq46R 13Ta18 03Aq46 17Li26R 25Li56
Feb 25,2013: 12Aq50 06Le33 24Aq17 25Aq31R 13Ta23 05Aq01 17Li26R 25Li43
Feb 26,2013: 13Aq51 19Le43 25Aq04 25Aq08R 13Ta28 06Aq16 17Li25R 25Li30
Feb 27,2013: 14Aq51 03Vi06 25Aq51 24Aq36R 13Ta34 07Aq31 17Li24R 25Li20
Feb 28,2013: 15Aq51 16Vi42 26Aq38 23Aq55R 13Ta39 08Aq46 17Li23R 25Li12
Mar 1,2013: 16Aq52 00Li26 27Aq25 23Aq08R 13Ta45 10Aq01 17Li22R 25Li06
Mar 2,2013: 17Aq52 14Li18 28Aq12 22Aq15R 13Ta51 11Aq16 17Li21R 25Li04
Mar 3,2013: 18Aq52 28Li15 28Aq59 21Aq17R 13Ta56 12Aq31 17Li20R 25Li04
Mar 4,2013: 19Aq52 12Sc17 29Aq46 20Aq17R 14Ta03 13Aq46 17Li18R 25Li04
Mar 5,2013: 20Aq52 26Sc23 00Pi33 19Aq15R 14Ta09 15Aq01 17Li17R 25Li04
Mar 6,2013: 21Aq52 10Sg32 01Pi20 18Aq13R 14Ta15 16Aq16 17Li15R 25Li03
Mar 7,2013: 22Aq52 24Sg42 02Pi07 17Aq13R 14Ta22 17Aq31 17Li14R 24Li59
Mar 8,2013: 23Aq52 08Cp52 02Pi54 16Aq16R 14Ta29 18Aq46 17Li12R 24Li53

DECEMBER 21 2012

Ephemeris for Longitude: 122W03 Latitude: 37N54 12:00AM
Date Sun Moon Mars Merc Jupt Venus Sat Rahu
Dec 10,2012: 24Sc38 12Li06 23Sg43 05Sc01 16Ta16R 28Li39 13Li33 01Sc56
Dec 11,2012: 25Sc39 26Li56 24Sg30 06Sc19 16Ta08R 29Li54 13Li39 01Sc57
Dec 12,2012: 26Sc40 12Sc01 25Sg16 07Sc39 16Ta00R 01Sc09 13Li45 01Sc57
Dec 13,2012: 27Sc41 27Sc15 26Sg03 09Sc00 15Ta52R 02Sc24 13Li51 01Sc55
Dec 14,2012: 28Sc42 12Sg26 26Sg49 10Sc23 15Ta44R 03Sc39 13Li57 01Sc52
Dec 15,2012: 29Sc43 27Sg25 27Sg36 11Sc47 15Ta37R 04Sc53 14Li02 01Sc49
Dec 16,2012: 00Sg44 12Cp04 28Sg23 13Sc12 15Ta29R 06Sc08 14Li08 01Sc44
Dec 17,2012: 01Sg45 26Cp17 29Sg09 14Sc38 15Ta21R 07Sc23 14Li14 01Sc40
Dec 18,2012: 02Sg46 10Aq00 29Sg56 16Sc04 15Ta14R 08Sc38 14Li19 01Sc37
Dec 19,2012: 03Sg47 23Aq16 00Cp43 17Sc32 15Ta07R 09Sc53 14Li25 01Sc35
Dec 20,2012: 04Sg48 06Pi05 01Cp30 19Sc00 14Ta59R 11Sc08 14Li31 01Sc35
Dec 21,2012: 05Sg49 18Pi33 02Cp17 20Sc28 14Ta52R 12Sc23 14Li36 01Sc35
Dec 22,2012: 06Sg51 00Ar44 03Cp03 21Sc57 14Ta45R 13Sc38 14Li41 01Sc37
Dec 23,2012: 07Sg52 12Ar42 03Cp50 23Sc26 14Ta38R 14Sc53 14Li47 01Sc39
Dec 24,2012: 08Sg53 24Ar32 04Cp37 24Sc56 14Ta31R 16Sc08 14Li52 01Sc40
Dec 25,2012: 09Sg54 06Ta19 05Cp24 26Sc26 14Ta25R 17Sc23 14Li57 01Sc40
Dec 26,2012: 10Sg55 18Ta07 06Cp11 27Sc57 14Ta18R 18Sc38 15Li02 01Sc39
Dec 27,2012: 11Sg56 29Ta57 06Cp58 29Sc28 14Ta12R 19Sc53 15Li07 01Sc35
Dec 28,2012: 12Sg57 11Ge52 07Cp45 00Sg59 14Ta05R 21Sc08 15Li12 01Sc29
Dec 29,2012: 13Sg58 23Ge54 08Cp32 02Sg31 13Ta59R 22Sc23 15Li17 01Sc22
Dec 30,2012: 15Sg00 06Cn04 09Cp19 04Sg03 13Ta53R 23Sc38 15Li22 01Sc13
Dec 31,2012: 16Sg01 18Cn24 10Cp07 05Sg35 13Ta47R 24Sc53 15Li26 01Sc04
Jan 1,2013: 17Sg02 00Le54 10Cp54 07Sg07 13Ta42R 26Sc09 15Li31 00Sc56
Jan 2,2013: 18Sg03 13Le36 11Cp41 08Sg40 13Ta36R 27Sc24 15Li36 00Sc50
Jan 3,2013: 19Sg04 26Le32 12Cp28 10Sg13 13Ta31R 28Sc39 15Li40 00Sc45
Jan 4,2013: 20Sg05 09Vi43 13Cp15 11Sg47 13Ta26R 29Sc54 15Li45 00Sc43
Jan 5,2013: 21Sg07 23Vi12 14Cp02 13Sg21 13Ta21R 01Sg09 15Li49 00Sc42
Jan 6,2013: 22Sg08 07Li01 14Cp50 14Sg55 13Ta16R 02Sg24 15Li53 00Sc43
Jan 7,2013: 23Sg09 21Li10 15Cp37 16Sg30 13Ta11R 03Sg39 15Li57 00Sc44
Jan 8,2013: 24Sg10 05Sc39 16Cp24 18Sg05 13Ta06R 04Sg55 16Li01 00Sc44
Jan 9,2013: 25Sg11 20Sc25 17Cp12 19Sg40 13Ta02R 06Sg10 16Li05 00Sc42

The convergence of the December solstice sun with Galactic Center:
A: 8000 years ago. B: 4000 years ago C: 2012

the Mayans measured the 'Precession of the Equinoxes' from the Winter Solstice instead of the Spring Equinox. On 21/12/2012, the Solstice sun will align with the Dark Rift in the Milky Way (a black hole), which the Maya called the Mouth of the Crocodile, (or jaguar-toad); the Crocodile Tree being the Milky Way itself.

the 13 Mayan bakhtun cycles

Raju Where is it from and can you post a higher resolution image? Thanks

Never mind!

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=14i0XqQQRsg

Kali yuga mentioned by Sanskrit scholars of the west

Prof. Dean Brown points out that most European languages can be traced back to a root language that is also related to Sanskrit - the sacred language of the ancient Vedic religions of India. Many English words actually have Sanskrit origins. Similarly, many Vedic religious concepts can also be found in Western culture. He discusses the fundamental idea of the Upanishads - that the essence of each individual, the atman, is identical to the whole universe, the principle of brahman. In this sense, the polytheistic traditions of India can be said to be monistic at their very core.

http://www.dailymoti...skrit-tradition

People should read the 'Foundation' atleast from a non SF prespective.IA uses the SF genre to describe the geopolitical games going on.

http://www.tehrantim...&Cat=10&Num=003

WEDNESDAY
APRIL 25, 2007
The hearts of people meet through music

By Hamid Golpira
Dutch documentary filmmaker Frank Scheffer, who is known for the documentaries he has made on some of the world�s outstanding composers, is in Iran to participate in a program arranged by Iran�s literary monthly Bokhara entitled �An Evening with Frank Scheffer�, which will be held in Tehran at the Iranian Artists Forum on Thursday.

During his stay in Iran, he also plans to conduct research for his next film, which will focus on the Tehran Symphony Orchestra and its conductor, Nader Mashayekhi.

Along with Scheffer, Osnabruck Orient Festival director Michael Dreyer has traveled to Iran to attend the event as well as to hold discussions with the Tehran Symphony Orchestra and the Tehran Conservatory of Music to arrange some performances at the German festival.

The Tehran Times interviewed Scheffer and Dreyer, along with Mashayekhi, at Tehran�s Vahdat Hall on April 23:

Following are excerpts of the interview.

Below is a photo we took of the projection done with a 6 inch refletor. My folks in the desh had the fortune of capturing the recent occultation of Mars pretty well.

Up!

The Nostradamus Code: World War III
Yep... I still remember the 2000 problem paranoia and predictions of complete disaster...
I can also tell about european curse of fourteenth year, especially for France... It had problems almost every fourteenth year of every century starting from 714 AD when muslims invaded the Frank Empire and ending in 1914 when WWI got started...

2014 is approaching...




http://www.scam.com/...read.php?t=5972

As for me I'm 99% convinced that SOMETHING is gonna happen around then. Buggered if I know what though!

Pip Pip!

The Egyptian calandar also ends in 2012.

I'm not sure if I understand the last comment. Do you have some ideas about what may happen or are you saying that you have no idea, or do you just like the idea of being buggered?

The Nostradamus Code: World War III
The book gives no new information. However, the events are proceeding broadly as prophesized. The middle east situation and the global weather disruption will be more prominent as we proceed towards the end of the decade. Iran has a major role in WW-III but believe it or not, Russia will initiate WW-III and the middle eastern alliance will follow them into Europe. There is a prophecy (not of Nostradamus) that USA will have a (beautiful but cruel) woman president and she will rule cruelly in the days of a US Civil war. Watch Iran and Syria closely, as well as Egypt and Saudi Arabia, where regimes will be toppled before WW-III. There will first be a peace between Israel and Palestinians, with Palestine being granted statehood. So afterwards, oil will be discovered in the region and war will break out over it. As for Mabus, he is one person in the Balkans, whose death will lead to the Russian invasion of Europe. Before that however, relations between Russia and the west would be strained due to a war in the middle east. The death of Mabus would be the spark, leading to the war. According to some, Mabus would be Miroljub Labus, presently the Deputy PM of Serbia. Check out the site http://ww-iii.tripod.com which analyzes some prophecies of nostradamus with reference to other prophecies on similar events.

Dude, forget Nostradamus he's so last century's paranoia.

The Mayan Calendar is what's wigging people out now. Lot's of people think something is going to happen 21st December 2012ad when the Mayan Calendar ends. Google it.

Mel Gibson is rumoured to be making a movie about it, but that's probably just a rumour with no substance. There is a book out called The Orion Prophecy (or Mystery, can't recall) which is pretty scary.

The Christian fundamentalists who believe in the Rapture might actually be on to something - though not for the reasons they think or in the way they think. *g*

The Earths magnetic frequency has been rising for a while. Used to be 7.83hz (the Schuman Resonance) but it's getting higher and nobody knows why. At the same time the strength of the field is getting weaker. When it reaches Zero point things will get very interesting. The New Agers think we are going to be in a new dimension and everyone will be psychic and nice to each other (you know quantum physics right, and that everything is just vibrating energy fields? Anyway....) The more practical think earthquakes and other bad stuff and most of us will be wiped out and it starts all over again. Virtually every culture has it that THIS is the 'final age' of man and most of it seems to be tied into the Mayan Calendar.

Terence McKenna a contemporary of Timothy Leary wrote the Invisible Landscape before he was aware of the Mayan Calendar, and he'd developed what he called Timewave theory. He could accurately predict major events in human history which he called Novelty (and which I don't really understand)and he saw it all speeding up this century (natural disasters, inventions etc) then it came to a dead halt - 21st December 2012.

Or how about this: The author, Ruth Allen noted, �The zenith meridian at Giza runs through Jupiter at the Hyades in Taurus. The metaphor for this alignment is that the kingdom (Jupiter) will be restored to Egypt (Taurus) at that precise moment. Thus, Osiris, the Bull of Egypt, will return from the dead at 22:18:13 on December 21, 2012. If these calculations can be backed up, they will have fulfilled the ancient prophecy. It will also prove that the Hall of Records is the stars. Remember one simple fact. Everything we are and everything we can know, is within the stars. That was the fundamental synoptic meaning of the Giza complex.�

For a tongue in cheek approach to 2012 with many links to explore, you could do worse than the site hosted by physicist Dan Sewell Ward. http://www.halexandr...rg/dward415.htm

As for me I'm 99% convinced that SOMETHING is gonna happen around then. Buggered if I know what though!

This Solar Eclipse on August 11, 1999 at 11:11am over Tintangel, England was considered by many in the occult to be the literal "seeding moment for the spiritual birth of the New Aquarian Messiah. It is the representative or rebirth of the Arthur archetype." The final and some say most startling piece of evidence relating the Eclipse to King Arthur is the star Arcturus, as it rose precisely to its highest point during mid-eclipse in 1999." Arcturus is known as the Star(s) of Satan [see 7th paragraph here]. Also mentioned was Angol (the Demon Star) and its relation to Prince William the future king, born of the Serpent. Still another site about the 11:11 phenomena stated "The Omen on Aug. 11th, 1999 is taking place right in front of of Leo (Christ), on the 222nd day of the year and exactly 144 days before year 2000. Nine months after, on May 5 2000, a conjunction of planets formed a 'New Star of Bethlehem' made with a single strand of planets aligned in a row." More interesting than that was the way those same planets were perfectly aligned in the 12 Houses of the Zodiac Ring for they foretold the return of a King.* This King of Terror, or future King who will come from England, combined with the 11:11 symbology and its Eclipse was ultimately to send a powerful portent to Satanists, even knowledgeable (Gnostic) Christians, telling them their long awaited 'Aquarian Age' has finally arrived and their ancient King has been reborn, meaning the spirit of Antichrist, ('the King who was') has arisen, and is soon to go into the Son of Perdition as prophesied.

Just as Christ has His 12 disciples who were as '12 Astrological Planets revolving around their central Sun,' - the Antichrist will also have his 12 Zodiacal personages placing him at center. These are his Ten subordinate Kings (or Knights), along with his False Prophet (11) and that of his Mother Goddess (12) which only adds to the Satanic interpretion of Revelation chapter 12 seen above which depicts a Woman having 12 stars above her head (...'and the Stars spell out your name..."; 12 lines to make D-I-A-N-A) who bears a Child who is to 'rule all nations'. Interestingly, the omen in Revelation 12 will literally play itself out in the western skies over Israel on March 29, 2006 during a Total Solar Eclipse of the Sun, with Virgo ('Woman clothed with the Sun, Moon under her feet') having in her belly the planet Venus (Child) with Mars (Red Dragon) seemingly awaiting nearby. It should prove interesting. "11 months after the August 11 1999 Solar Eclipse [again 11-11] brought us to the Eclipse on July 1, 2000, and what should have been the 39th birthday of Princess Diana. One year and one month after the alignment of the planets on May 5th 2000, brought us to the Druid Summer Solstice on June 21, 2001, Prince William's day of birth. On that same day there was a uniquely bright corona within the Solar Eclipse over Africa, which 'coincidentally,' William was visting at the time during part of his holiday gap year. (something even more startling and reminiscent of this event was a few months earlier, while Prince William was in Chile, came the dark shadow from a Solar Eclipse cast there). In addition to these events on June 21 2001, there were also a number of giant solar flares striking the earth as well as a comet called Linear C/2001 A2 burning through the sky, all on the same day.

Exactly one year later saw a day very much like the 1999 King Arthur Solar Eclipse, Mars [The Red Dragon] was shining front and center very bright in the early morning sky, it being closer to earth that it had been in several decades, and was placed in the constellation of the Sceptre [the Sword]. Later in the day was a news report citing a 'killer' near-earth asteroid having just missed our planet - coming within 1/3 of the distance between earth and the moon. Scientists later said had that struck earth, we would already be living in a very different world already. Again, all these strange events seem to happen around Prince William's day of birth or on other renown pagan 'holy days' within the Satanic calendar. Not since the omen by way of a comet cutting through the constellation of Cassiopeia (the Queen) in 1997 that seemingly foretold the death of Princess Diana (which occurred five short months later), have we seen so much esoteric meaning all relating to this most unique (Moon) mother and son (Sun) combination, and strange as it may sound, William Arthur was born under the three water signs in cusp (exactly matching Nostradamus' Century One Quatrain 50 prophecy as well as the Bible's Daniel 7:25). William like his mother was born under the Astrological sign of Cancer. Many of the Occult astrological signs and their encoded numerics are pointing to a single event in (future) time which mirrors an ancient Mayan calendar found in the Americas. The Occult symbol of the Ouroboros, depicting a 'Serpent of Light' (Dragon-Lucifer) residing in the heavens and eating its own tail, adorns many New Age and Satanic material of late. The symbol has its literal roots in scientific astronomy as the Milky Way, viewed at galactic central point (near Sagittarius), is seen as a Serpent seemingly eating its own tail. Occultists believe that when we reach Solar alignment with the head of the Serpent destroying itself, there will be a catastrophic change upon earth. The symbol known as the Suntelia Aion depicts our Sun rising out of the mouth of Ouroboros, which is to occur on the Winter Solstice in December 2012, the exact same date the ancient Mayan calendar ends.




http://www.angelfire...tichrist/2.html

Chapter Four: The Time of Troubles
Crazed leader launches nuclear bombs on Mediterranean and Europe

(Century II, Quatrains 3 and 4)

During a period of continuing unrest, the leader of a Middle Eastern country will be able to obtain a nuclear weapon. He will go to the greatest lengths over the smallest things and will not hesitate to use the weapon because of his obsessions with deadly warfare. The people he is warring against retaliate with a nuclear weapon. The country has a coast on the Mediterranean.

One of the bombs will land in the Mediterranean instead of the land, poisoning all the fish. The passages of trade in the region will be disrupted so that the people on the other coast will be desperate for food and will eat the fish anyway. It will happen near the east coast of the Mediterranean in a region of dark-colored cliffs.

(Century III, Quatrain 83)

The nuclear weapon being dropped by one of the Middle Eastern countries will spark off yet another war on top of that war. European nations will try to interfere to diminish the threat to oil supplies. When the European countries try to interfere, the crazed leader will use the rest of his arsenal on Europe, most striking the Italian Peninsula.

The European Mediterranean coast, particularly that of Italy and France, will be almost uninhabitable, and Italy will get the brunt. This leader is not the Antichrist but helps to set the stage for the Antichrist to rise to power with little or no opposition.
Volcanoes, earthquakes, floods, droughts

(Century IV, Quatrain 67)

A very bright, previously unknown comet will appear and coincide with the time of great geological troubles, with earthquakes and volcanoes erupting and disrupting weather systems. This will cause widespread famines, droughts, and social upheavals in unexpected places. Nations that are considered prosperous and powerful, particularly western nations, will be weakened. They will be torn with civil strife and rioting as people migrate to areas that have water and can support crop-growing. The social upheaval and weakening of political structures will help the Antichrist come to power.

The United States in particular will be subject to serious natural disasters, particularly earthquakes and flooding, and flatten the nation from end to end, causing enormous conflict, despair, and misery. The US will be bankrupted attempting to deal with its disasters. Three other great nations will send aid to help the citizens survive.

(Century VIII, Quatrain 29)

Earth changes will take place that will help the Antichrist's drive for world conquest. In central Europe, southern Europe, and in the Middle East, around the eastern end of the Mediterranean, there will be severe floods. As a result of the disruption to local governments by the natural disasters, the Antichrist will move his troops in under the guise of helping the people restore civil order, but really use this as a device to take over countries, and to use the populations like slaves.

Serious economic problems will persist along with great social unrest, contributing to the ease with which the Antichrist can seize power. The frightened and hopeful populace will be vulnerable to his rhetoric. The Antichrist will use the disasters as opportunities to overthrow governments and sneak spies into a country. Martial law will be declared in many areas to stop rioting and looting. The Middle East, the source of his power, will not be as devastated as the rest of the world. He offers assistance to other countries trying to recover but he will eventually stab them in the back.
New World Order's teeth in the international power flow

(Century II, Quatrain 58)

During the time of the Antichrist a secretive, conspiratorial cabal are "pulling the strings" behind the scenes to manipulate world politics and economies for personal gain. These master puppeteers operate figureheads in many countries, governments, and the major world capitals. They are united but are very clever in disguising their influence. They hold positions that appear to be relatively minor, like advisors and under-secretaries and such, but are key positions of their power.

In the daytime they appear to be good, loyal, model citizens working for the same goals their governments are supposedly working for, but behind the scenes they band together and pool their information and contacts to work for their own ends. They do not appear to have any political power but they really have a firm grip on world affairs.

This secret organization has been in existence for several generations. Their existence is hinted in the family histories of the banking powers and money centers of the world. Only the families involved are aware. The cabal of leaders has been very slowly but surely building up a worldwide network of power, because they want to take over but stay behind the scenes. At first when the Antichrist comes along the leaders of the Cabal regard him as a new, dynamic, youthful leader from the Middle East they can use to unite the area and reign it into their realm of control. But the Antichrist ends up turning the tables on them.

Antichrist's rise to power in Middle East

(Century II, Quatrains 23 and 81)

The Antichrist will take over Iran by using a human decoy to trick the Iranian Ayatollah in power. This will involve the "yes men" and puppets of the Ayatollah's court. The Antichrist will first drive away internal supporters of the Ayatollah by starting a civil war. Then he will put forth a man as a leader, a man for Iranians loyal to the Ayatollah to concentrate their hate on. The man will be assassinated while Iran is being taken over, and his opponents will think they have foiled the overthrow of power by assassinating him. But they will find out later he was merely a decoy and that they played into the plans of the Antichrist.

The Antichrist will initially obtain power in his own sphere, Asia, and the Middle East. As he grows out of this arena, and into Europe, the next step will be into the Mediterranean, his area of strength. Because of his Middle Eastern heritage he will have already united North Africans, who are sympathetic to his cultural background, with his Asian and Middle Eastern conglomerate.

Fiasco from communication breakdown between two superpowers

(Century II, Quatrains 35 and 48)

Through a mistake, a breakdown in communications between two powerful countries will occur. The situation is a lot more complex than will appear on the surface. The leader involved will feel great regret about what happened and will want to continue his career and help correct the situation, to help make up for the adverse affects. The entire event will be viewed as a fiasco from both sides. It will have very harmful and even cataclysmic consequences.
Third world country leader creates strife

(Century III, Quatrain 60)

A "young dark man" will arise as a leader in a Third World country; his main goal is to unite the other Third World countries to do battle with the superpowers. The area of conflict will be in Eastern Europe and the Middle East, particularly around the Adriatic and the Caspian seas and Israel. No definite winner will emerge but the strife will help set the stage for the Antichrist. Many prophecies in the Bible refer to events in this region.
War game simulation by Britain in Europe leads to disaster

(Century II, Quatrain 2)

In a war-game maneuver involving Great Britain and European troops a malfunctioning computer will cause the "real-world" situation to play out instead of the simulation. As a result of the error actual defenses will be activated and real bombs will be dropped on the areas of the game and cause a tragic international incident.
Want to find out what happens next?

In the complete book, you will read about:

* The identity of the third Antichrist.
* Military confrontations and terrorist attacks.
* Radical new weapons described in striking detail.
* Advent of the "New World Order".
* Geological Earth shifts caused by man-made weaponry.
* Many more details.

The Nostradamus Code: World War III

Chapter 1: Introduction

* Nostradamus and his Quatrains
* How did Nostradamus do it?
* The world stage
* Free will

Chapter 2: Key People in the Time of Troubles

The Antichrist

* Background/overview of the Antichrist
* Political/religious philosophies of the Antichrist

The Popes and the Catholic Church

* Death of the three popes / Catholic Church & the Antichrist
* Assassination of the current pope
* Second-to-last pope "swallowed" by Antichrist's scheming
* The treachery of the final pope
* Demise of the Catholic Church

The NWO and secret conspiracies

* NWO's teeth in the international power flow
* NWO involved in military and economic conquests
* NWO destroyed by the Antichrist
* Fundamentalist fanatics' infiltrations into governments
* Manipulation of the IRA in Ireland by the underworld
* Wealthy United States businessman a closet revolutionary and Nazi

General international political climate

* Fundamentalist censorship
* Terrorist assassinations

Chapter 3: The Antichrist

* Antichrists' unified monetary system
* Antichrist's seizure of Asia
* Antichrist's cultural eradication & European campaign
* Antichrist's ravage of the Catholic Church
* Antichrist's invasion of Turkey
* Switzerland alarmed by Antichrist's Nazism in Germany
* International (non)reaction to the Antichrist

Chapter 4: The Time of Troubles

Prelude to the Antichrist and WWIII

* Crazed leader launches nuclear weapons on Mediterranean and Europe
* Volcanoes, earthquakes, floods, droughts, famines, rioting
* Fiasco from communication breakdown between two superpowers
* Third world country leader creates strife
* Antichrist profits from radar research in Europe

International political and social incidents

* War game simulation by Britain in Europe leads to disaster
* American Electoral College voting stalemate
* Antichrist's rise to power in Middle East

Chapter 5: Scientific Achievements in the Time of Troubles

Technology accidents

* Nostradamus on the dangers of weaponry mixed with natural disaster
* Weather modulation devices go awry, cause ice and hail
* Nuclear reactor meltdown near city with underground chambers
* Space shuttle accident releases microorganisms into atmosphere
* Devastating accidental weaponry explosions from earth tumult
* Ruptured earth energy fields cause meteorite storm
* Research into warping time leads to disaster

The weapons of WWIII

* New, horrific, secret, radical weapons monstrosities in WWIII
* ETW unleashed on San Andreas and New Madrid faults
* Antichrist obtains ETW through espionage, bribery, treachery
* Death by radio waves

Eugenics

* Human eugenics research advanced by the King of Terror
* Eugenics scientists meet grisly deaths from public backlash

Chapter 6: World War III

* Overview: horrible battles, weapons, devastation, death
* Nuclear confrontation in the Middle East
* Mediterranean campaign and the battles of Gibraltar
* Bomb sent at New York by the Antichrist, France retaliates
* Bacteriological warfare strikes New York and London
* Antichrist conquers Europe
* The Antichrist invades Britain
* The crucial meeting on the naval carrier
* Seas, rivers, lakes boil; famines lead to insane cannibalism
* Antichrist's commander succumbs to key strategic failure
* Russia breaks free of the Antichrist
* North Pole Alliance of North America, Europe, and Russia forms
* Ogmios confronts the Antichrist, fate of world in balance

Chapter 7: The geological and spiritual earth shift

* Timing
* The end of civilization
* Geography
* Preparations/Survival
* Old vs. Young Souls
* The New Age of spiritual rebirth
* Reawakening of freedoms and rights
* Peace after WWIII
* Spirituality transcends technology
* Feminine aspects of God revered again
* "Green" revolution, return to the land
* Scientific discoveries reaffirm Eastern religion
* Great Genius unifies religion and science
* Great Genius discovers the science of miracles
* Astonishing feats of medicine
* New philosophy of the Age of Aquarius

Chapter 8: The Great Genius

* Past events
* Cover-ups
* Atlantis
* Great Genius
* Far Future

Mayan Year of Destiny - 2012
by John Van Auken,
Editor of the Ancient Mysteries Newsletter, an A.R.E. Membership Benefit
2012 � Mayan Year of Destiny


At present, the year 2012 is only of interest to those of us who believe in the wisdom of ancient cultures. But soon, very soon, everyone is going to be looking for more information about this Mayan prophesied year of destiny, which many believe to be the end of the Mayan calendar and thus the end of time as we have known it. Let�s look at this calendar and date more closely.

The Long Count Calendar

Actually, it all began with a discovery that has been known for decades about the culture that invented what is known as the Long Count Calendar. On the Pacific coastal plain of Chiapas, Mexico, a few miles from the Guatemala border, the astrological observatory of the Izapa civilization was located. Some believe that the Izapa were the transitional culture between the older Olmec civilization and the emerging Maya; others believe the Izapa were Olmecs.

For almost a thousand years the Long Count Calendar was recorded by the Izapa on monuments and ceramic vessels. Most of the dates refer to local, mundane events, like the crowning of a specific king. However, some of the Long Count monuments refer to mythological events that occurred at the beginning of the current �World Age� that we are living in and which is soon coming to an end.

Time Cycles

Scholars have figured out how the Long Count Calendar correlates with our own Gregorian calendar (using a lot of arithmetic), so we know that the legendary time of the beginning of our present World Age � when all the values were set to zero � occurred on August 11, 3114 BC. And using a complex system of Mayan Baktuns (measurements of time), we can calculate when their calendar reaches a new zero point � basically, every 13 Baktuns (5,125 years), the Long Count resets to zero � the calculated time when our present World Age ends and a new cycle of time commences.

Quirigua Stela "C"Creation, Fall, and Resurrection

Several Creation monuments describe events that occurred in 3114 BC. The texts associated with these Creation monuments state that �creation happens at the Black Hole,� at �the Crossroads,� and �the image� will appear in the sky. The Maya adopted the Izapa calendar, creation myths, and time cycles counting method.

The renowned researcher and author Linda Schele (in Freidel, Schele, and Parker�s Maya Cosmos) wrote: �I realized that every major image from Maya cosmic symbolism was probably a map of the sky. . . . [The] patterns in the Milky Way and the constellations were directly related to the Maya vision of Creation.� Her realization has opened the door to understanding the Mayan cosmology and prophecy.

In order to grasp the Mayan message, we need to understand a little about how they saw the sky and how events in the sky indicated times of death, rebirth, and the passage of time for souls living in this galaxy and in this solar system.

The Milky Way is their major image in the sky. As we know, we live on the outskirts of our galaxy and the Milky Way is the dense cluster of stars when looking toward the center of our galaxy. It appears as a long strip of stars in the sky above us. For the Maya, the rising, passing, and descending of the Milky Way in the sky marked major points in the cycle of time. Also, parts of the Milky Way and other stars prominent in our sky have specific meaning to our lives and the history of humanity and the heavenly realms, the realms of the gods.

To the Maya, the Milky Way�s major features and the changes in its position and shape during the night reveal our origin, passage, and destiny. They are the Tree of Life; the Celestial Crocodile that gnaws at the Tree of Life; the Cosmic Canoe of the �Paddler gods� that follows after the Crocodile; the �lying down sky,� or Black Dream Place; and seven stars in the Big Dipper, representing the egocentric Seven Macaw, who attempted to take the place of the Sun.

Simplistically, the heaven passage tells the story of the rise of the Tree of Life at sunset, followed by the rise of egoism and self-seeking (as seen in Seven Macaw), which brings the rise of dangerous lower urges that crawl on their belly (as the cursed serpent in the Garden of Eden) and attack the rising of life. But these are driven off by the Paddler gods, and eventually the Tree of Life is reborn and rises again near dawn � the complete story of the rise, fall, and resurrection of life.

Rebirth on 2012

On August 11, 3114 BC, a new Solar Age began and the Sun Lord was reborn. Creation Lord deities are often portrayed attending the rebirth of the world, including one called Bolon Yokte K�u, who is closely associated with war, conflict, and the Underworld. Despite these associations, Bolon Yokte is a god that is often present during Creation events. He is portrayed on a ceramic called Vessel of the Seven Lords, which contains the date 3114 BC, the beginning of our present 13-Baktun cycle. Of course, the date that interests us is the beginning of the next 13- Baktun cycle, which occurs on December 21, 2012, the end of the Mayan Calendar. A recent translation of a text from Tortuguero, a Classic Maya site north of Palenque, explicitly points to the date December 21, 2012. Translated by Mayan epigrapher David Stuart, the legible part of the text reads: �At the end of 13 Baktuns, on 4 Ahau 3 Kankin, 13.0.0.0.0; something occurs when Bolon Yokte descends.� The verb glyph describing what happens is effaced, so it is replaced with the word something, but the creation lord Bolon Yokte is depicted, meaning that 2012 was thought of by the Maya as a creation or recreation of the world, possibly during a time of war, conflict, and dominance of the Underworld and the Lords of the Underworld.

As we can see, the end of the Mayan Calendar is simply the end of the present World Age. And, important to us, it simply marks the beginning of the next cycle of rebirth, renewal.

There are no specific markings or statements about the year 2012 on the archaeological artifacts at Izapa, but there are numerous images at Izapa that portray a rare celestial alignment that appears in the skies in the years around 2012. This galactic alignment marks the rebirth of the December solstice and the rebirth of the Sun Lord over Seven Macaw�s attempts to replace him. The Sun Lord rises through the Dark Rift in the Milky Way, located between Sagittarius and Scorpio. Scorpio is depicted near the base of the Tree of Life in Mayan illustrations. Souls on Earth experience a change of galactic seasons, a celestial time-cycle shift, with our Sun moving into rebirth at the �Black Hole� at the celestial base of the Tree of Life (a location in the great Milky Way). December 21, 2012, signals the end of this 5,125-year age that we�ve been living in and the commencement of a new Earth Age.

When asked what the New Age means to humanity, Edgar Cayce replied: �by the full consciousness of the ability to communicate with the Creative Forces and be aware of the relationships to the Creative Forces and the uses of same in material environs. This awareness during the era or age in the Age of Atlantis and Lemuria or Mu brought what? Destruction to man, and his beginning of the needs of the journey up through that of selfishness.� (1602-3)

Cayce is informing us that in a previous time cycle, humanity had a level of consciousness and relationship with the Creative Forces that allowed us to live at higher levels of material, mental, and spiritual activity in the Earth and beyond. Unfortunately, we misused this consciousness and the power that came with the close relationship to the Forces. This misuse brought on the destruction of our great cultures and a long, karmic soul journey through the pain and confusion that resulted from our selfishness and self-centered focus on our will without regard for the will of the Creator and others. Now, as the cycles come around again, we are nearing a time when the level of consciousness and relationship with the Creative Forces will allow us once again to regain these powers. How will we use them this time?

Before we despair that humankind is going to misuse these again, let�s remember that many, many souls and even the Logos, the Word, have come and continue to come into materiality to help prepare the way for this rebirth. We overestimate the power of the world and its leaders. The unseen, heavenly forces have greater power and will overcome the world�s darkness and selfishness, breaking through with a light that will transform this realm for a thousand years, when all evil and temptation will be bound and a golden age will reign. The biblical book of the Revelation conveys this prophecy: �I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. He seized the dragon, the old serpent, which is the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole inhabited earth, and bound him for a thousand years.� (Rev. 20:2)

Is 2012 the beginning of the fulfillment of these wonderful prophecies by Edgar Cayce and the Revelation, or just another step on the long journey toward such fulfillment

Book

2012 Return of Quetzalcoatl- Daniel Pinchbeck



and

http://www.godrealized.com/2012.html
http://www.viewzone.com/chatur.html

Astronomical link between India and Mayans- B. G. Sidharth

Calendrics and Astronomical computations

The ancient Hindu and Mayan civilizations exhibit other interesting convergences. Hindu records say that a member of a great race which preceded ours, a highly-developed personage known as Asuramaya, learned all the basic cosmic cycles and used his knowledge to determine the durations of the various geological and cyclical periods of human evolution. The chronology and computations of their still used Tamil calendar, say the Brahmans, are based upon the works of Asuramaya and upon carefully maintained collateral zodiacal records. Their most ancient extant work on astronomy, the Surya Siddhanta, says that Asuramaya lived toward the end of the Krita-yuga, a former age that ended approximately 2,165,000 years before the present. This would place Asuramaya at something less than 2.5 million years ago.

The name Asuramaya is a compound of the two Sanskrit words, Asura and Maya. The personage himself is Maya, the prefix Asura signifying that Maya was of the Asuras, a name given to a certain caste or people of the great prehistoric race that preceded our own, or Aryan humanity. The word Asura derives from surya, Sanskrit for the sun. In accordance with the archaic Indian manner of describing the matter, the astronomer named Maya was said to have gained his knowledge from studying the sun. The sun and its encircling planets also occupied the central attention of the Mayan astronomer caste in Central America.

The early Hindu thinkers visualized the passage of a race from its birth to its close as embracing four distinct phases or yugas, and they said that races overlapped each other in duration. According to their calculations, the world, in other words our present race, entered the fourth of its phases, which they term the Kali yuga or Iron age, in the year 3102 BC. This event coincided with the death of Krishna , whom they describe as an avatara or incarnation of a lofty divine-spiritual being or messiah. His departure from the earth is said to have ushered in new and different conditions affecting our race. Modern students of the ancient Mayan numerical glyphs have found that the dating of major series of events noted on Mayan stelae invariably give such reckonings in terms of the time elapsed since a date known as 4 Ahau 8 Cumhu. They know that for the Maya chroniclers this date represented a commencement point in time-reckoning of such awesome magnitude that it was central to all else in subsequent Maya history; but they don't know what it meant or why it was so important to the latter.

Among other ancient nations only one, the Hindu peoples of the Indian subcontinent, is known to have developed a system of calendrics accounting for such vast periods of time.

For computing the age of the earth and various geological and other epochs, as well as the age of mankind, the learned Brahman caste still employs a Tamil calendar derived from archaic astronomical data, known as the "Tirukkanda Panchanga" (cf. The Secret Doctrine, 2:49-51).

Maya-Hindu connection - By Dr. B. N. Narahari Achar


In 1866, the French architect, Eugene Viollet-le-Duc (1814 - 1879) also noted striking resemblances between ancient Mexican architectural structures and those of South India.

Ephraim George Squier (1821-1888) was United States Charge d'affaires to Central America in 1849 also noted similarities in both major and minor features of Buddhist temples of South India and Mexico they were round and different colors were used on each of the four quarters.

Chicchan according to Mayan history is the serpent mind, the mind that is constantly renewed and regenerated, through a process of shedding what no longer serves us. The physical body itself can be seen as an evolutionary skin periodically released, as one life ends and another begins. It is a body fueled ultimately by a form of solar energy the Maya call kultunlilni. Kultunlilni is the vital life force empowering all human growth and development. This crucial life-force is the same as what is known in Hindu cosmology as the serpent power: kundalini. Kundalini is the great evolutionary force making of each body and its occupant, a potentially powerful source of solar wisdom. Important for us to remember, however, is that this primary, very intimate and very powerful source of wisdom is only accessible to the extent that we are able to hear what our bodies, as carriers of its sacred gift, are actually telling us. Inevitably in this process, we turn to those with whom we feel a strong attraction or affinity. "

Hindu-Mexican Trinity

Scholars were also greatly impressed by the similarity between the Hindu Trinity - Brahma-Visnu-Shiva and the Mexican Trinity - Ho-Huizilopochtli-Tlaloc as well as the likeness between Indian temples and American pyramids.

The parallels between the Hindu Brahma-Vishnu-Shiva Trinity and the Mexican Ho-Huitzilopochtli-Tlaloc Trinity, and the resemblances between the attributes of certain Hindu deities and those of the Mayan pantheon are impressive.

In the book The Conquest of the Maya by J Leslie Mitchell explains that the basis of the old Maya empire was not of the work of the ancestors of the present day Maya, but was an import from the same foreigners that built the palaces and temples of the Chams and Khmers in Cambodia, and the temples in Java. He also points out the similarities between the Maya rain-god Chac and the Vedic Indian Indra, and the Maya monkey-god and the Vedic Hanuman. The Vedic origin is further enhanced by the frequency that the elephant motif is found in Maya art, especially the earlier works of the Maya, such as at Copan, although the elephant never existed in the region.

One reason for these similarities between the Americas and India is that in ancient Vedic times there were two great architects, Visvakarma of the demigods or Aryans, and Maya of the asuras. Surya Siddhanta was revealed to Mayasura by Sun. The Mayan people, also known as technicians, were no doubt named as such because of being connected with this person named Maya or Mayasura and Maya Danava. They were a part of his clan or tribe. They had fallen away from the Vedic way of life and were sent or escaped to the region of Central America . They also carried with them much of the science of astronomy and navigation for which this Mayasura was known. Mayasura�s knowledge is more fully explained in the classic work of Indian Vedic astronomy known as the Surya Siddhanta for which he is given credit. Many people have wondered from where the Mayan acquired their astronomical knowledge. This would explain how the Mayan people had such a high degree of understanding in astronomy, from which they also developed their calendar. The Mayan calendar was a science they had long developed, carrying it with them from their previous location and civilization.

Like the Vedic culture, the Maya had a pantheon of demigods, many of which have similiarities to the Vedic deities. Mayan gods like Xiuhtechutli and Xipe Totec have their Vedic counterparts in Indra and Agni. Indra, like Xiuhtechutli, was the rain god and guardian of the Eastern Quadrant, and Agni, similar to Xipe Totec, was the god of sacrificial fire, born in wood and the life force of trees and plants. Then there is the Vedic Ushas, the beautiful goddess of Dawn or Sky, who is similar to the Mayan view of Venus, goddess of Dawn.

Furthermore, hymn 121 of the book ten in the Rig Veda is very similar to the description of creation as found in the Popul Vuh.

(source: Proof Vedic Culture's Global Existence - By Stephen Knapp p. 246 - 247).

According to Donald A. Mackenzie writes in his book, Myths of Pre-Columbian America:

"Tezcatlipoca, was like Hindu god Kubera, was a god of the north. The story of Yappan appears to be of Indian origin. The story of the temptation and fall of Yappan is too like that of the temptation and fall of his Indian prototype to be of spontaneous origin in the New World. The conclusion drawn from the evidence of the Yappan myth that Hindu cultural influences reached America is greatly strengthened when we find Acosta informing us that certain Mexican ascetics, who assisted the priests, "dressed in white robes and lived by begging." The wandering Brahmin and Buddhist pilgrims in India similarly begged their food."

Same Aryan name of God: When Cortes invaded the valley of Mexico he found that the Mexicans - through the chief motive of his great adventure was to destroy their religion and to substitute his own, had the same word for God that he himself had. His own (Spanish) was Dios, from Greek Theos, the Mexican, as Cortes converted it to writing, was Teotl (Devata or Deo in Sanskrit).

(source: The Ayar-Incas - By Miles Poindexter published by Horace Liveright New York volume 1-2. 1930).

Churning of the Milky Ocean

The Indian myth of the Churning of the Milky Ocean reached America. In Codex Cortes there is a grotesque but recognizable Maya representation of the ocean churning. The tortoise, however, is on the summit of the mountain-pestle instead of being beneath it, and the other form of the serpent god appears above his avatar. Round the mountain-pestle is twisted a snake, called "a rope" by Seler. Two dark gods, like the Indian Asuras, hold one end of the snake-rope while the other end is grasped by the elephant headed god. To the rope is attached a symbol of the sun (Kin).'

(source: Myths of Pre-Columbian America - By Donald A. Mackenzie p. 191- 229).

The Indian Elephant in American Art

The Indian elephant in America. Elephant motif in Mayan sculpture, though elephants are unknown in America.

The Maya "long nosed god" is regarded by those who favor the hypothesis of direct or indirect Indian cultural influence in America as a form of the Indian elephant-headed God Ganesha.



The American writer and explorer, Mr. John L. Stephens, who, accompanied Mr. Catherwood, an accomplished artist, visited the ruins of Maya civilization in Central America in the middle of last century, detected the elephant on a sculptural pillar at Copan, which he referred to as an "idol." A reproduction of one of the ornaments in question should leave no doubt as to the identity of the animal depicted by the ancient American sculptor. It is not only an elephant, but an Indian elephant (Elephas Indicus), a species found in India, Ceylon, Borneo and Sumatra. In India the elephant was tamed during the Vedic period. It was called at first by the Aryo-Indians "the beast having a hand". and ultimately simply Hastin "having a hand". An elephant keeper was called Hastipa. The Maya long nosed god is regarded by those who favor the hypothesis of direct or indirect Indian cultural influence in America as a form of the Indian elephant-headed god, Ganesha.

Donald Alexander Mackenzie (1873 - 1936) and other scholars, however, are of definite opinion that the ancient Mexicans and Peruvians were familiar with Indian mythology and cite in support close parallels in details. For instance, the history of the Mayan elephant symbol cannot be traced in the local tradition, whereas it was a prominent religious symbol in India. The African elephant has larger ears. It is the profile of the Indian elephant, its tusk and lower lip, the form of its ear, as well as its turbaned rider with his ankus, which is found in Meso-American models. Whilst the African elephant was of little religious significance, it had been tamed in India and associated with religious practices since the early days.

Discussing the diffusion of Indian religions to Mexico, a recent scholar, Paul Kirchhoff (1900 - 1972) German anthropologist from the University of Frankfurt, in "The Diffusion of a Great Religious System from India to Mexico" had even suggested that it is not simply a question of miscellaneous influences wandering from one country to the other, but that China, India, Java, and Mexico actually share a common system."

Kirchhoff has sought

"to demonstrate that a calendaric classification of 28 Hindu gods and their animals into twelve groups, subdivided into four blocks, within each of which we find a sequence of gods and animals representing Creation, Destruction and Renovation, and which can be shown to have existed both in India and Java, must have been carried from the Old World to the New, since in Mexico we find calendaric lists of gods and animals that follow each other without interruption in the same order and with attributes and functions or meanings strikingly similar to those of the 12 Indian and Javanese groups of gods, showing the same four subdivisions."

(source: India and World Civilization - By D P Singhal part II p. 62 � 63).

Trilokinath, the Hindu ruler of the three worlds, was known to the Mexicans by the name, until the Spanish conquerors mistakenly changed the name into Tloque Nahuaque.

The Hindu goddess Maya, - "the cosmic illusion" the female energy, "mother of gods and men" - is sometimes represented as the sakti. This same "mother of the gods" was carried to America and appeared in the Maya theogony of Yucatan under the same name, - May, - in the same functions she performed in India. In Mexico, Maya was also called "the mother of the gods". Other names for her were "nourisher of the human race" "type of earth mother."

In a temple in Guatemala is a statue of an incarnation of Vishnu as Kurma, the tortoise. The sculpture is richly detailed and strongly suggests that it might have been wrought by Hindu hands. In Palenque Temple of the Sun in Mexico Surya occupies the place of honor.

Even Yama, the god of death of Hindu mythology, has found his way to Mexico and Peru, while typically Hindu lotus and chakras motifs adorn the temples. Maya and Aztec architectural styles are remarkably similar to those in India and South east Asia. In both areas the chief structures were pyramid shaped, with serpent balustrades and surmounted

Sir Edward B. Taylor (1832 - 1917) English anthropologist also found the counterparts of the tortoise myth of India in ancient America. He observed that:

"The striking analogy between the tortoise myth of North America and India is by no means a matter of new observation; it was indeed noticed by Jesuit Father Lafitan nearly a century and half ago."

Three greatest features of the Asiatic stories are found among the North American Indians in their fullest and clearest development..."

(source: Early History of Mankind - By E. B. Taylor).

It is not without reason that the Spanish author Lopez says in his book Le Races Aryans de Peru:

"Every page of Peruvian poetry bears the imprint of Ramayana and Mahabharata."

Mayan Calendar Corroborates Hindu Prophecy
Golden Age to begin in 2012

In the �Brahma-Vaivarta Purana�, Lord Krishna tells Ganga Devi that a Golden Age will come in the Kali Yuga - one of the four stages of development that the world goes through as part of the cycle of eras, as described in Hindu scriptures. Lord Krishna predicted that this Golden Age will start 5,000 years after the beginning of the Kali Yuga, and will last for 10,000 years.

Mayan Calendar Matches Hindu Calendar

It is interesting that this prediction of the emergence of a new world is prophesied to appear about the same time that the Mayans predicted it to come! The Mayan calendar began with the Fifth Great Cycle in 3114 BC and will end on 21 December 2012 AD.

The Hindu Kali Yuga calendar began on 18 February 3102 B.C. There is only a difference of 12 years between the Hindu's beginning of the Kali Yuga and the Mayan's beginning of the Fifth Great Cycle.

Golden Age Could Begin in 2012

The ancient Hindus mainly used lunar calendars but also used solar calendars. If an average lunar year equals 354.36 days, then this would be about 5270 lunar years from the time when the Kali Yuga started until 21 Dec 2012. This is the same year that the Mayans predict rebirth of our planet. It is also about 5113 solar years of 365.24 days per year, and is day number 1,867,817 into the Kali Yuga. By either solar or lunar years, we are over 5,000 years into the Kali Yuga and it is time for Lord Krishna's prophecy to happen according to the ancient Hindu scriptures.

Lord Krishna's Golden Age could easily begin in 2012!

Mayan Prophecy Matches Hindu Prophecy

It is amazing that both calendars began at about the same time over 5,000 years ago and both calendars predict a totally new world and/or golden age after about 5,000 years into their calendars! We are definitely on to something with these Mayan and Hindu 2012 predictions.

(source: Golden Age to begin in 2012 - By David Hedges

First Hindu-Maya cultural dialogue in Guatemala

The Mayans of Guatemala - representative of the Maya civilization that flourished during the first millennium AD in Central America - believe their ancestors came to this part of the globe 20,000 years ago from the East.

One of the most dominant ethnic groups, Kekichi Maya, has always had special attraction for India in the past as their forefathers have told them that the "Naga tribes of Nagaland" were one of the four original branches of the Maya civilization.

It is for these reasons and the similarities between the Aryan and Mayan civilizations, the people of Guatemala for long have been trying to establish contact with Indians and have a cultural dialogue.

The first such dialogue formally gets going at Maya Village, Lake Atitlan in Guatemala on May 29. Lake Atitlan is famous for its natural beauty and colourful Mayan villages. A 16-member delegation of intellectuals, academicians and scholars from six countries - mainly people of Indian origin - left Houston in Texas for the Guatemala City on May 27 to participate in the two day conference on "Hindu -Maya Cultural Similarities". The conference is organized by the Council of Elders of the Sacred Mayas, Guatemala in collaboration with the International Centre for Cultural Studies, a non-profit organization based in the US.

The Council of Elders is an umbrella organization of all the 23 different Maya groups in Guatemala and is responsible for controlling the tribal life of the people. "The conference would look at similarities in these cultures and traditions, besides conducting workshops on ceremonies of these traditions," Yashwant Pathak, global coordinator of International Centre for Cultural Studies.

Giving details of the conference, Pathak said on May 29 the Hindu delegation comprising of members from countries like India, the US, Britain, Trinidad and Guyana would be given a traditional Mayan welcome followed by lecture on the culture and tradition of their civilization.

"On the second day, we would present our papers, besides show them how a traditional Hindu welcome is with tilak and aarti. Later in the afternoon, we would also conduct a Vedic Yagna. We are taking all the necessary things with us for the conference," Pathak said.

Before the conclusion of the two-day conference, members of the two delegations would tie "Rakhi" to each other. "This would represent the permanent brotherhood between the two ancient civilizations of the world and also that we would protect tradition and culture of each other," Pathak said. The Hindu-delegation is also scheduled to meet the Noble peace prize winner, Rigoberta Menchu, a Mayan Indian. In 1992, she won the prize in recognition of her work for social justice and ethno-cultural reconciliation based on respect for rights of indigenous people.

After the conference, the Hindu delegation would proceed on a five day tour of the Guatemala Mayan attractions, he said. Pathak said the Hindu and the Maya traditions and cultures are one of the ancient in the world. "There are many similarities in these two great traditions. While, they date back thousands of years; they believe in One God with manifestations in different forms. Both believe in philosophy for human being in totality and total humanity," he said.

Watch 'Decoding Past' on History Channel tonight:
http://www.history.c...pisodeId=214250

History channel show was so so.. lot about Mayan calendar, Merlin, Roman oracle, Biblical revelations, Nostradamus, Native American prophecies etc. Nothing India related. Regarding chinese, there's this 'I Ching' predicitive methods which one (late) Terrance McKenna has taken a bit further with this 'Timewave theory' (google for it with his name, you'll get a gazillion hits). I found a youtube link on this McKenna, seems like predicting time-travel by 2012 and end of linear time as we know it. http://www.youtube.c...h?v=w-prt5d6m6s

#
# Dvapara Yuga - archana (worship)-In Dvapara Yuga, science flourishes, people experience the spiritual in terms of subtle energies and rational choices, inventions are abundant, particularly those that dissolve the illusion of distance (between people and between things), and power is mostly in the hands of women. The end of this age is associated with the death of Krishna, and the events described in the Mahabharata.

http://cycle-of-time...KaliYugaend.htm

http://cycle-of-time.net/index.htm

http://www.cycle-of-...ointofaries.htm




http://www.cycle-of-...t/poleshift.htm

This last quote is a nice segue into Montgomery's final book The World to Come because the main thrust of the book is to announce that the shift of the axis has been delayed. Published in 1999 when the shift was predicted to occur by her Guides, it was nice to get an update and find out why it hadn't occurred yet:



Approximately five years ago (1994) the Guides said that they now foresaw a delay in the shift, explaining: "We have always told you that we could not tell you its exact time, because that is in God's hands. But we have also foreseen a Walk-in American president in place before then, preparing jobs and housing in safe areas. Since we do not now see a Walk-in president during this last decade of the century, we feel certain that the Shift will be delayed."



It was delayed because, as we told you, humans' awareness has improved these last few decades, and the need to cleanse the Earth of evil beings is less pertinent. Not that all evil is erased, by any means, but because man's functioning by God's laws is improving. We cannot give an exact date for the Shift, but it depends on continued development of man's spirit, and we do not see it happening until after the Walk-in president is in place, which will not occur for ten to fifteen years yet.



This then places the timing of the shift in the range of 2010-2015 and would mean that the next presidential election will be a very important one.



As to the cause of the Shift her Guides replied:



It will occur when the ice builds up to the highest degree at the poles, and the imbalance leads to a slip of the Earth on its side.





Synthesis



So what can we make of these snippets of information that give warning signs of an impending shift of the Earth's axis? It seems that a recurring theme in all these pronouncements can be summarized as follows:



1. increasing volcanic eruptions

2. increased snowfall

3. cooling temperatures & shortened summers

4. stronger hurricanes

5. talk of an Ice Age returning

6. tremendous ice build up near the poles

7. scientists detect wobble of axis

8. massive eruptions of ancient volcanoes in Mediterranean, California, South America & Caribbean area.

9. massive earthquakes provoke monumental tidal waves

10. axis shift

http://www.cycle-of-time.net/gold.htm

http://www.cycle-of-...swar_wisdom.htm

http://cycle-of-time..._precession.htm

http://cycle-of-time.net/GPY.htm




The important difference between this diagram and the similar one pictured earlier, is that Khafre's causeway, which has the Sphinx positioned at its end point, now marks Leo 0�. The Sphinx, of course, has the head of a man with the body of a lion, and Leo is the astrological symbol of the lion. What this means is that we now have a "lock" that ties together the Precession of the Equinox with the layout of the pyramids of Egypt.



http://cycle-of-time...dsGoldenAge.htm

Should be in another thread.

http://www.spirit-of...roup/KumbhMela/

2013 Maha Kumbh Mela will be held in January and February Allahabad (Prayag).�
Last Maha Kumbh held here was in 2001.

2012 (MMXII) will be a leap year starting on Sunday of the Gregorian calendar.

http://www.armageddo...ne.org/2012.php
Predicted and scheduled events

January

* January 23 - Chinese New Year and scheduled new moon. This time of year is associated with the Water-Dragon in Chinese astrology.
* January 31 - 433 Eros, the second largest Near Earth Object on record (size 13x13x33 km) is expected to pass Earth at 0.1790 astronomical units (1 AU � about 93 million miles � is the average distance from Earth to the sun). NASA studied Eros in the NEAR Shoemaker probe launched February 2000.

February

* February 5 - Super Bowl XLVI will be played.
* February 6 - If she is still on the throne, Elizabeth II will celebrate her Diamond Jubilee. A series of festivities across the United Kingdom and Commonwealth of Nations will likely run throughout the year.

March

* March 01 - Greek Drachma bank notes are exchangable for Euro until this time.
* March 19 - Buddha Claimant: Ram Bahadur Bomjon who disappeared in 2006 is believed to return on this date (six years from his departure)

April

* April 1 - The United States Census of 1940 is released to the public.
* April 15 - It will be the RMS Titanic`s 100 anniversary since the sinking in 1912.

May

* May 20 - Annular solar eclipse, a Sunday.
* May 20 - French Presidential election.

June

* June 6 - Second and last solar transit of the planet Venus of this century; the next pair is predicted to occur in 2117 and 2125 (see Transit of Venus, 2012).
* 2012 European Football Championship will be played in either Italy, Hungary/Croatia or Poland/Ukraine

July

* July 1 - The first possible government in Hong Kong elected by Universal suffrage take office.
* July 1 - Presidential Elections in Mexico
* July 27 - Opening ceremony of the 2012 Summer Olympics begins in London at 7:30 pm GMT/8:30pm BST. Source:London 2012 Website Countdown

August

* August 12 - Closing ceremony of the 2012 Summer Olympics in London, United Kingdom, a Sunday.
* August 29 - Start of the 2012 Summer Paralympics

September

* September 9 - Finish of the 2012 Summer Paralympics

October

* October 18 - at 20:36 (Eastern Daylight Time), the Earth will be home to 7 billion, according to the US Census Bureau.

November

* November 6 - United States presidential election, 2012
* November 6 - United States Senate elections, 2012
* November 6 - United States House of Representatives election, 2012
* November 13 - Total solar eclipse (visible in northern Australia and the South Pacific).

December

* December 3 - Jupiter oppositions
* December 21 - The Long Count calendar used by the Maya civilization of pre-Columbian Mesoamerica completes its thirteenth b'ak'tunb'ak'tun date of this starting point (13.0.0.0.0.0) is repeated, for the first time in a span of approximately 5,125 solar years. The significance of this period-ending to the pre-Columbian Maya themselves is unclear, and there is an incomplete inscription (Tortuguero Stela 6) which records this date. It is also to be found carved on the walls of the Temple of Inscriptions in Palenque, where it functions as a base date from which other dates are computed. However, it is conjectured that this may represent in the Maya belief system a transition from the current Creation world into the next. The December solstice for 2012 also occurs on this day. cycle since the calendar's mythical starting point (equivalent to 3114 BCE August 11 in the proleptic Gregorian calendar, according to the "GMT-correlation" JDN= 584283). The Long Count
* December 23 - The alternative date for the completion of the thirteenth b'ak'tun cycle in the Maya calendar, using a version of the GMT-correlation based on a JDN of 584285 (a.k.a. the "Lounsbury correlation"), which is supported by a smaller number of Mayanist researchers.
* December 31 - Expiration of the Kyoto Protocol

Unknown dates

* The Replacement Eastern Span of the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge will open to traffic, replacing the old Eastern canteliever span that was damaged in the Loma Prieta Earthquake in 1989, almost a quarter century (23 years) after the span was damaged.
* India's 11th Five-Year Plan (2007-2012) ends and the 12th one (2012-2017) starts.
* The United Kingdom plans to complete 5-year process to cease analogue television broadcasts region-by-region, with Meridian Broadcasting, ITV London, Tyne Tees Television and UTV being the last areas to switch off analogue.
* One of the Royal Navy's new aircraft carriers will enter service, possibly named HMS Queen Elizabeth.
* The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter project expected to be complete.
* This is the year when California's ban on the production of foie gras is scheduled to take effect.
* NASA's new Orion spacecraft is scheduled to become fully operational for International Space Station support flights.
* China plans to launch the Kuafu spacecraft
* Freedom Tower in New York City: Construction is scheduled to be finished by 2012 at the latest.
* Sight & Sound magazine will conduct its Top Ten Films of All-Time poll for the seventh decade since 1952.
* The Hallandsas Ridge Tunnel is set to be completed, only 17 years behind the original plan.

Major religious holidays

* February 1 - Imbolc, a Cross-quarter day (Celebrated on February 2 in some places).
* March 20 - Spring Equinox, also known as Ostara.
* May 1 - Beltane, a Cross-quarter day.
* June 20 - Summer Solstice, also known as Midsummer or Litha.
* August 1 - Lammas, a Cross-quarter day.
* September 21 - Fall Equinox, also known as Mabon.
* November 1 - Samhain, a Cross-quarter day and Neopagan new year.
* December 21 - Winter Solstice, also known as Yule.
* December 25 - Christmas (Celebrated on December 24 in some places).

Apocalyptic beliefs about 2012

2012 is someverdana claimed to be a year of spiritual transformation (or apocalypse). Many esoteric sources interpret the completion of the thirteenth B'ak'tun cycle in the Long Count of the Maya calendar (which occurs on December 21 by the most widely held correlation) to mean there will be a major change in world order, although there is a distinct lack of evidence from the extant records of the pre-Columbian Maya civilization that they themselves considered this occurrence in 2012 would signify end of the world.

Accordingly, several eclectic authors claim that a major, world-changing event will take place in 2012:

* The 1995 book The Mayan Prophecies linked the Maya calendar with long-period sunspot cycles.
* The book 2012:Mayan Year of Destiny claims the Maya may have been instructed in their wisdom by discarnate entities from Orion and the Pleiades. Contact was maintained through shamanic rituals conducted in accordance with the movements of planets and stars.
* The 1997 book The Bible Code claims that, according to certain algorithms of the Bible code, a meteor, asteroid or comet will collide with the Earth.
* The book The Nostradamus Code speaks of a series of natural disasters caused by a comet (possibly as above) which will allow the third anti-christ to disperse his troops around the globe under the guise of aid in preperation for a nuclear war.
* The book The Orion Prophecy claims that the Earth's magnetic field will reverse.

Other prophecies and apopolyptic writings and hypotheses for this year include:

* Terence McKenna's mathematical novelty theory predicts a point of singularity in which humankind will go through a great shift in consciousness.
* The Prophecy of the Popes, attributed to Saint Malachy, speculated that Pope Benedict XVI would reign during the beginning of the tribulation of which Jesus spoke, and sometime later a future pope described in the prophecy as "Peter the Roman", the last in this prophetic list, would appear, bringing as a result the destruction of the city of Rome and the Last Judgement.
* Many new age spiritualists and philosophers ("new-agers") believe humankind will enter an age of enlightenment in 2012. There are a range of varying, generally positive, beliefs shared by a subset of spiritualists from the mundane to exceptional -- including a positive social shift and age of peace, mankind becoming psychic and connected by a collective, and/or an evolution of the human race into non-corporeal beings made of "spiritual" energy, or light energy. An alternative view is that we are already thought-forms (see also idealism) and will be realizing our true selves in this year.
* Some alien-enthusiasts, along with some new-agers, believe 2012 to correspond approximately with the return of alien "watchers" or "caretakers" who might have helped the first human civilizations with developing their technology and may have been waiting for us to reach a higher level of technological and/or social advancement. Beliefs range from the extra-terrestrials having benevolent purposes -- such as to help human society evolve -- to malevolent purposes -- such as enslavement of mankind and/or manipulation.
* The ascetic Buddhist monk Ram Bahadur Bomjon reportedly told his followers that he will return around 2012.
* Some proponents of a peak oil catastrophe place major events in 2012. Richard C. Duncan's book The Peak of World Oil Production and the Road To The Olduvai Gorge claims that the Olduvai cliff will begin and permanent blackouts will occur worldwide. Several studies predict a peak in oil production in or around 2012.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012
http://en.wikipedia....edia:Copyrights

Armageddon Online

http://www.daanspeak.../Maya01Eng.html

Maya predicted a long time ago:
The year 2012 will be a turning point
The Dutch in the original articlehas been translated into English by Marienella Meulensteen.

As fascinated as we are by the dark side of our earthly existence �DaanSpeak writes about it all the time� it did not occur to us before that many people are already preparing for the moment that the darkness subsides and the sun will shine again. The development of alternative ways to deal with nature, the truth advertisements in large American newspapers by Mike Ruppert and Tom Paine, biological food in the supermarkets, etc. The examples are of such diversity and so abundant that you can imagine them yourself. These days many people not only dream of happier times, but because they already see daybreak, they have quietly started to make preparations. All kinds of peoples of all kinds of cultural backgrounds have written about that daybreak and the period of night that precedes it through the years, and not only in the book of Revelations.

2012 has been calculated by more peoples in different times
All kinds of holy scriptures through the ages have heard the gong for the last round. The year 2012 is mentioned with striking frequency, like by the Pueblo-Indians, the Zulus and the Maya. the Maya made their predictions about the moment when the gong would sound on the basis of calculations that still hold nowadays. At the center of these are their calendars by which they calculated in periods of 26.000 years and larger. These periods evolved from their own calculation of time which seems to be superior in accuracy, also to our own calendar. In the documentary The Year Zero during a speech, a Maya cleverly points out one of the mistakes of our Western calendar to the audience. He says that if we would have calculated correctly according to the insight of the Maya, we would not have made mistakes in our own calendar count. The month of October (oct = 8) would now have been the eighth month, November (nov = 9) the ninth and December (dec = 10) the tenth. Here and there there's a plea to adopt the natural calendar of the Maya.

2012 is the end of a period of 26.000 years
The Maya were very accurate in their calculations and as a consequence could make very accurate predictions. They even were so specific that in this enormous cycle of 26.000 years they could pinpoint the exact day: December 21, 2012. This date marks the end of the large calendar and of the cycle of thirteen so-called baktuns after which the earth starts the �period of the fifth sun'. According to their calculations, which still are astronomically correct, our solar system will be in one line with Hunab K'u, the center of the Milky Way, the place the Maya call the mother womb. Maya expert Peter Toonen writes in the beginning of this year in magazine Frontier: 'At that time our Earth and the sun are in one line to each other in the center of the Milky Way, therefore with Hunab K'u, the source [�]. Technically you can then get a sort of zero situation in the revolutions of the electromagnetic fields of our solar system. According to the traditions of the Hopi Indians, this will take three days; three days of emptiness and darkness. After that the magnetic poles can reverse. Who knows?' Whatever happens, the Maya calendar then will start over with the year zero. the Maya do not have a linear time calculation, but see time as overlapping circles.

The five periods according to the Mayans
December 21, 2012 is the beginning of a large new period of 26.000 years and a smaller period of 5200 years. The Guatemalan �Mayan Elders of the Eagle Clan' write: 'This is a cycle of wisdom, harmony, peace, love, of consciousness and the return of the natural order. It is not the end of the world as many from outside of the Mayan tradition have misinterpreted it to be. The first cycle (Ajaw/sun) was a feminine energy and its element was fire. The second cycle (Ajaw/sun) was of masculine energy, and its element was earth. The third cycle (Ajaw/sun) was a feminine energy and its element was air. The fourth cycle (Ajaw/sun) is a masculine energy and its element is water. The fifth cycle (Ajaw/sun) will be a fusion of both feminine and masculine energies. It will be a transition where there won't be any more confrontations between the polarities. It will bring balance and there won't be hierarchy of one over the other. Both energies will support each other. It is why this period is called one of harmony, the kingdom of love and the return of consciousness. Its element will be the ether.' No more room for 'dividers' like Bush or other polarizing types. No more room for Bush's refined, explosive and polluting oil; but room for the natural, imploding, clean ether-energy.

The end of times is a new beginning
The end of times does not mean that the earth explodes and disappears into a black hole, but that a long period will be ended and that on a higher level a next period is started. The bad thing is that this transformation, as so often with a large improvement, is preceded by a lot of misery. It is like the necessary struggle of the caterpillar to become a butterfly. The bible calls this turbulent period 'labor pains'. Just as expressively, the bible tells us that after this a period will start of a thousand years, in which 'tha satan' is chained; resulting in 'many many' years of peace. This whole situation reminds us of the Jesus-story, in which Jesus dies in a miserable way, rises from the dead and arrives at a higher level by ascending to heaven. 'This large time cycle has been thought since ancient times to represent a complete cycle of human spiritual advance', writes John Major Jenkins.

Jenkins: Antichrist is an abstraction, a metaphor
Jenkins is one of the leading Maya-experts. He has written many books on the Maya, their calendars and their predictions, not only based on existing literature, but also on personal investigation. Curious as we are to the answer to the question if the Maya have predicted an Antichrist and an Armageddon (a 'mother of all wars'), we mailed Jenkins. He answers: 'I ascribe to the perspectives offered by Traditionalist writers like Ren� Gu�non (Crisis of the Modern World, Reign of Quantity and the Signs of the Times). Traditional civilizations and cultures were contemplated upon having a clear channel to the transcendent Deity. This ideal culture had, as a main priority, the basic need of human beings to practice and experience spirituality. Today, the modern world has degenerated. Gu�non bases this part of his writings on the Hindu Yuga philosophy of time, which states that for 1/2 of a Great Cycle humanity moves away from intimacy with the transcendent creator. This results in the terminal stage of the half-cycle, the end of the darkest age, Kali Yuga, when human beings are out of touch with their divine, true selves, and human institutions and leaders are the antithesis of anything that would support such a world. This is how I'd answer your Antichrist question. Current world systems and its leaders favour and pursue power rather than spiritual knowledge. Even our spiritual institutions are corrupt and out of touch, more interested in controlling the flock. Average people who accept the hierarchy of power dominance try to scale its ladder, as if they are ambitious and "players" in the "real world", but instead they are (often unwittingly) just pawns in the larger system of the Antichrist. [...]'.

Jenkins: 2012 is like the gradual transition between night and day
Jenkins sees the Antichrist therefore as an abstraction, like a system. Jenkins: 'When the half-cycle of downward degeneration reaches its maximum expression in the deepest realm of the Kali Yuga, we shift back to a movement toward the creator - there is a reversal or apocatastasis as it says in Plato's Timaeus. That shift is signalled, I believe by the alignment of the solstice sun with the galactic equator - the galactic alignment of era 2012. Around that time - not on the precise day as it seems to me to be a years-long process - the Antichrist system will no longer be supported by an orientation of humanity that faces away from the Creator. Things will have to change because it is ordained by the cycles of time (the "will of God" if we may say so. ) Fated, that is, in the same way that night inevitably turns into day, not because all is predetermined. As we approach the end of the cycle, predictable end-times dynamics appear as the archetype of the Antichrist emerges more fully into operation in the field of history. Witness George Bush.'

Jenkins: Armageddon is also a metaphor
Because of all hatred, misery and other negativity that Bush sows, and the wool that is herewith pulled over the eyes of the public �of which the majority still does not recognize him for who he is and what he stands for- Bush is a good signal for an Antichrist, whether it be in the form of a person or an abstraction. And how about the disaster scenarios of the bible for the last days? Jenkins: '[. . . ] in my opinion it doesn't help to understand the end-times dynamic by placing ones faith in arbitrary predictions about earthquakes and asteroids - those I believe are just metaphors for the widely felt serious of the situation and for a drastic transformation that is required when we abandon all the illusions we've been sold by the Antichrist system. Illusions of a materialistic consciousness that worships "things" and quashes true spirituality whenever it tries to survive (witness Native American decimation). [...]'.

Barrios: Big changes around 2012
Jenkins points DaanSpeak to a website of the Organization for Mayan and Indigenous Studies. Between all that is offered, we find an article, in which a certain Carlos Barrios is being interviewed. 'Mr. Barrios is a historian, an anthropologist and investigator. After studying with traditional elders for 25 years since the age of 19, he has also became a Mayan Ajq'ij, a ceremonial priest and spiritual guide, Eagle Clan.' Let us first see what Barrios has to say about the period to 2012: 'We are no longer in the World of the Fourth Sun, but we are not yet in the World of the Fifth Sun. This is the time in-between, the time of transition. As we pass through transition there is a colossal, global convergence of environmental destruction, social chaos, war, and ongoing Earth changes. All this, Mr. Barrios says, was foreseen via the simple, spiral mathematics of the Mayan calendars. "It will change," Mr. Barrios observes. "Everything will change. " He said Mayan Day-keepers view the Dec. 21, 2012 date as a rebirth, the start of the World of the Fifth Sun. It will be the start of a new era resulting from and signified by the solar meridian crossing the galactic equator, and the earth aligning itself with the center of the galaxy'.

Barrios: Just now the dark side is very strong
'At sunrise on December 21, 2012 for the first time in 26,000 years the Sun rises to conjunct the intersection of the Milky Way and the plane of the ecliptic. This cosmic cross is considered to be an embodiment of the Sacred Tree, The Tree of Life a tree remembered in all the world's spiritual traditions. Some observers say this alignment with the heart of the galaxy in 2012 will open a channel for cosmic energy to flow through the earth, cleansing it and all that dwells upon it, raising it all to a higher level of vibration. This process has already begun, Mr. Barrios suggested. "Change is accelerating now, and it will continue to accelerate. " If the people of the earth can get to this 2012 date in good shape, without having destroyed too much of the Earth, Mr. Barrios said, we will rise to a new, higher level. But to get there we must transform enormously powerful forces that seek to block the way.' Barrios does not talk about Bush and his henchmen, but talks more like George Lucas would about his Star Wars-series, about good and evil forces: 'Just now the dark side is very strong, and very clear about what they want. They have their vision and their priorities clearly held, and also their hierarchy. They are working in many ways so that we will be unable to connect with the spiral Fifth World in 2012."

Tactic to conquer the Dark Side
'As Mr. Barrios sees it, the dark side works to block fusion [between quarrelling optimists] through denial and materialism. It also works to destroy those who are working with the light to get the Earth to a higher level. They like the energy of the old, declining Fourth World, the materialism. They do not want it to change. They do not want fusion. They want to stay at this level, and are afraid of the next level. The dark power of the declining Fourth World cannot be destroyed or overpowered. It's too strong and clear for that, and that is the wrong strategy. The dark can only be transformed when confronted with simplicity and open-heartedness. This is what leads to fusion, a key concept for the World of the Fifth Sun.'

The art of fighting without a fight
We agree with Barrios that the Dark Side cannot be destroyed or overpowered. A fight on their conditions of hatred and violence is lost in advance; the citizens are not prepared for such superiority in military en police power. However, emancipation and development have more often produced strong revolutions. In our opinion, it is best to fight without fighting and therefore not to enter their arena; the art of fighting without a fight. Step out of the arena, and see how the boxers beat each other up in their primitive ways and develop alternatives.

Big changes are necessary
The other side cannot be beaten, but has to be convinced to stop the destruction and the negativity. It is not really the intention to take the Dark Side out, that would go too far, but their deeds have to go from +1 to 0. The positivism of the one party then gets the upper hand, so that all together we can safely reach the other side. Now, a few empty-headed hooligans ruin it for the large group and that has to change. Carlos Barrios: 'We are living in the most important era of the Mayan calendars and prophecies. All the prophecies of the world, all the traditions, are converging now. There is no time for games. The spiritual ideal of this era is action'.

Bush is the right man in the right place
Death and destruction are an essential part of life. Without death there is no life, without dying cells between what later will become the fingers of a hand, a fetus will not have a hand. But if the negative side takes over, things go wrong. Empty-headed hooligans, who sponge on others like pirates, disturb the balance. Bush is the example incarnate: a rattle-brain, a hooligan, a pirate sailing under the pirate flag of his secret Skull & Bones society, who sponges on the hard work of his less fortunate countrymen. He is the ultimate icon of 'the dark side' and is there for a reason, he is the right man in the right place. He has an essential function in our lives, just like death. But if Bush is not careful, and he surely will not be, he and his friends Blair, Balkenende en Sharon will destroy more than what is good for us. Before long, with the second cabinet W-Bush in the White House, you can sit back and wait for the fascist effects of the draconic post-911-laws, an enlargement of the gap between rich and poor, the possible conquest of Iran and Syria to dump the Palestinians there who do not accept that, where after war and terror will exist again, etc. The mentioned prediction about the Palestinians is also the opinion of author John Stanton in his article 'Bush's Operation Clean Sweep: World War IV in 2004?'

War is peace
It is time that it becomes clear that the lifelong war against terror has been called with war being the goal, not peace. Peace is the last thing a leader wants. In peace time people become emancipated and they start to make demands. Peace makes people independent and uncontrollable. It is the nightmare of world leaders. What is needed is a joint enemy that moulds the people into unity, like one man behind the leader. Communism was a good enemy: visible, numerous and strong. But the best imaginable enemy is the invisible enemy: the terrorist who could really be anywhere and therefore eventually will be controlled by the most effective police imaginable, self-censorship. Self-censorship in the media, but also in the citizen, who will repress his own needs for development, only not to give terrorists any chances. Therefore, more severe laws are no problem for this citizen, stronger, he insists on them. Criticizing, or colouring outside of the (self) indicated lines is out of the question, 'we are for, not against'. We opt for the fear and feel free within the walls that we raise. Freedom through constraint. Peace through war. Communism was good, terrorism is unsurpassed.

Period until 2012 is the time of the big cleanup;
how and what is not determined
The period until 2012 is seen by the Maya as a time of cleaning and abolishment. The purpose is to rid ourselves of all icons of the 'dark side'. The dark side, as well as the other side, wants to establish a new era. The question is if we survive the last struggle and who, after the dust clears, will be the winner. Barrios: 'Our planet can be renewed or ravaged. Now is the time to awaken and take action. "Despite the threatening wordings of some Maya-texts, Nostradamus and the bible, the future is not determined. That is stated by those Mayas, the incomprehensible Nostradamus and others. All ingredients are present to make it fail, but all together we can also make it work well. It is important that many are going to realize that, and that their new attitude affects the other party. It is possible to turn things around; it does not really have to fail. The website SacredRoad writes to DaanSpeak: 'Through their understanding of the Najt, or spiral of space-time, the Mayan priests and elders are able to predict with great accuracy future events. But they offer these prophecies as a warning and repeat that they are not etched in stone. Rather, we have the capacity to alter the spiral, thus specific outcomes are not certain. That is why they are calling on humanity at this time to work towards creating greater harmony and unity. They believe through this process we may be able to subvert some of the cataclysm that may be associated with this period of transition.'

Toonen: Changes from below
Maya expert and author Peter Toonen states to DaanSpeak over the phone: 'These times are our chance to straighten things out. If we don't grab the chance, things can go badly wrong.' That the result of this �final struggle between light and dark' is unsure, depends according to Toonen on the free will that we have as human beings, only certain parameters are set. In the period until 2012 he sees multiple scenarios become reality at the same time, positive as well as negative ones. Some will wager positively, others negatively. But even the negative can work in a positive way: 'George Bush can convince people in a negative way that it cannot go on like this. Just look at the massive peace demonstrations.' Toonen says what DaanSpeak has been thinking for years: 'The positive changes will come from below. Don't expect much from governments, they only react after the fact.' That also became clear on December 4 from the Zembla-report (RealPlayer) Haagse Herrie, which disclosed more or less that our Dutch parliament is reacting to the whims of the day, wants to score in the media by enacting laws, which are retracted later on because they are superfluous or go too far. What does work is preservation, but you don't score with that as a member of the Chamber. If you really want to know how our country functions politically, discover in this very good NRC-article (Word) by Gerard van Westerloo that the Netherlands is being governed by an oligarchy.

http://www.wweek.com...rial/3327/8975/

Looks like the Mayans were not as uncivilized as depicted by Mel Gibson's attempt in Apocalypso after all!

Costco has a book called "1491: Revelations of America before Columbus" a description of pre-Columbine America. Quite a good book.


Amazon Review

There was an article in BR which I found very interesting. It was in the psy-ops section. Something to do with the Chinese wanting to establish/re-establish their buddhist credentials.

http://timesofindia....how/2137491.cms



In my mind this immidiately connected with this that I had read



~ Kalki Purana, II[6], Verses 40 to 44

It says they are Buddhists yet do not worship any God, nor fear after-life, eat and drink a variety of things seems like apt description of our friends from China. One has to wait and see whether it is fact, fiction or accurate prophecy. According to Hindu beliefs, it is only after Kalki has cleansed the society that Satya Yuga is firmly established.

From a dialogue between mahaRshi mArkanDeya and mahArAja yudhiSThira, recorded in vana parva of mahAbhArata. Translation of Sri Kesari Mohan Ganguly.

======

And Markandeya said, 'Listen, O monarch, to all that hath been seen and
heard by me, and to all, O king of kings, that hath been known to me by
intuition from the grace of the God of gods! O bull of the Bharata race,
listen to me as I narrate the future history of the world during the
sinful age.

O bull of the Bharata race, in the Krita age, everything was
free from deceit and guile and avarice and covetousness; and morality
like a bull was among men, with all the four legs complete. In the Treta
age sin took away one of these legs and morality had three legs. In the
Dwapara, sin and morality are mixed half and half; and accordingly
morality is said to have two legs only. In the dark age (of Kali), O thou
best of the Bharata race, morality mixed with three parts of sin liveth
by the side of men. Accordingly morality then is said to wait on men,
with only a fourth part of itself remaining. Know, O Yudhishthira, that
the period of life, the energy, intellect and the physical strength of
men decrease in every Yuga!

O Pandava, the Brahmanas and Kshatriyas and
Vaisyas and Sudras, (in the Kali age) will practise morality and virtue
deceitfully and men in general will deceive their fellows by spreading
the net of virtue. And men with false reputation of learning will, by
their acts, cause Truth to be contracted and concealed. And in
consequence of the shortness of their lives they will not be able to
acquire much knowledge. And in consequence of the littleness of their
knowledge, they will have no wisdom. And for this, covetousness and
avarice will overwhelm them all. And wedded to avarice and wrath and
ignorance and lust men will entertain animosities towards one another,
desiring to take one another's lives.

And Brahmanas and Kshatriyas and Vaisyas with their
virtue contracted and divested of asceticism and truth
will all be reduced to an equality with the Sudras. And the lowest orders
of men will rise to the position of the intermediate ones, and those in
intermediate stations will, without doubt, descend to the level of the
lowest ones. Even such, O Yudhishthira, will become the state of the
world at the end of the Yuga. Of robes those will be regarded the best
that are made of flax and of grain the Kora-dushakas will be regarded the best. Towards this period men will regard their wives as their (only) friends.

And men will live on fish and milk, goats and
sheep, for cows will be extinct. And towards that period, even they that are always observant of vows, will become covetous.

And opposed to one another, men will, at such a time, seek one another's lives;
and divested of Yuga, people will become atheists and thieves. And they will even
dig the banks of streams with their spades and sow grains thereon. And even
those places will prove barren for them at such a time. And those men who
are devoted to ceremonial rites in honour of the deceased and of the
gods, will be avaricious and will also appropriate and enjoy what belongs
to others. The father will enjoy what belongs to the son; and the son,
what belongs to the father. And those things will also be enjoyed by men
in such times, the enjoyment of which hath been forbidden in the
scriptures. And the Brahmanas, speaking disrespectfully of the Vedas,
will not practise vows, and their understanding clouded by the science of
disputation, they will no longer perform sacrifices and the Homa. And
deceived by the false science of reasons, they will direct their hearts
towards everything mean and low. And men will till low lands for
cultivation and employ cows and calves that are one year old, in drawing
the plough and carrying burthens. And sons having slain their sires, and
sires having slain their sons will incur no opprobrium. And they will
frequently save themselves from anxiety by such deeds, and even glory in
them. And the whole world will be filled with mleccha behaviour and
notions and ceremonies, and sacrifices will cease and joy will be nowhere
and general rejoicing will disappear. And men will rob the possession of
helpless persons of those that are friendless and of wisdoms also. And,
possessed of small energy and strength, without knowledge and given to
avarice and folly and sinful practices men will accept with joy the gifts
made by wicked people with words of contempt. And, O son of Kunti, the
kings of the earth, with hearts wedded to sin without knowledge and
always boastful of their wisdom, will challenge one another from desire
of taking one another's life.

And the Kshatriyas also towards the end of
such a period will become the thorns of the earth. And filled with
avarice and swelling with pride and vanity and, unable and unwilling to
protect (their subjects), they will take pleasure in inflicting
punishments only. And attacking and repeating their attacks upon the good
and the honest, and feeling no pity for the latter, even when they will
cry in grief, the Kshatriyas will, O Bharata, rob these of their wives
and wealth. And no one will ask for a girl (for purposes of marriage) and
no one will give away a girl (for such purposes), but the girls will
themselves choose their lords, when the end of the Yuga comes. And the
kings of the earth with souls steeped in ignorance, and discontented with
what they have, will at such a time, rob their subjects by every means in
their power. And without doubt the whole world will be mlecchified. (mlecchibhutam is the word in the original text!!!)

And when the end of the Yuga comes, the right hand will deceive the left;
and the left, the right. And men with false reputation of learning will
contract Truth and the old will betray the senselessness of the young,
and the young will betray the dotage of the old. And cowards will have
the reputation of bravery and the brave will be cheerless like cowards.
And towards the end of the Yuga men will cease to trust one another. And
full of avarice and folly the whole world will have but one kind of food.
And sin will increase and prosper, while virtue will fade and cease to
flourish. And Brahmanas and Kshatriyas and Vaisyas will disappear,
leaving, O king, no remnants of their orders. And all men towards the end
of the Yuga will become members of one common order, without distinction
of any kind. And sires will not forgive sons, and sons will not forgive
sires. And when the end approaches, wives will not wait upon and serve
their husbands.

And at such a time men will seek those countries where
wheat and barley form the staple food. And, O monarch, both men and women will become perfectly free in their behaviour and will not tolerate one
another's acts. And, O Yudhishthira, the whole world will be mlecchified.
And men will cease to gratify the gods by offerings of Sraddhas. And no
one will listen to the words of others and no one will be regarded as a
preceptor by another. And, O ruler of men, intellectual darkness will
envelop the whole earth, and the life of man will then be measured by
sixteen years, on attaining to which age death will ensue. And girls of
five or six years of age will bring forth children and boys of seven or
eight years of age will become fathers. And, O tiger among kings, when
the end of the Yuga will come, the wife will never be content with her
husband, nor the husband with his wife. And the possessions of men will
never be much, and people will falsely bear the marks of religion, and
jealousy and malice will fill the world. And no one will, at that time,
be a giver (of wealth or anything else) in respect to any one else. And
the inhabited regions of the earth will be afflicted with dearth and
famine, and the highways will be filled with lustful men and women of
evil repute. And, at such a time, the women will also entertain an
aversion towards their husbands.

And without doubt all men will adopt the behaviour of the mlecchas, become omnivorous without distinction, and cruel in all their acts, when the end of the Yuga will come.

And, O thou foremost of the Bharatas, urged by avarice, men will, at that time,
deceive one another when they sell and purchase. And without a knowledge
of the ordinance, men will perform ceremonies and rites, and, indeed,
behave as listeth them, when the end of the Yuga comes. And when the end
of the Yuga comes, urged by their very dispositions, men will act
cruelly, and speak ill of one another. And people will, without
compunction, destroy trees and gardens. And men will be filled with
anxiety as regards the means of living. And, O king, overwhelmed with
covetousness, men will kill Brahmanas and appropriate and enjoy the
possessions of their victims. And the regenerate ones, oppressed by
Sudras, and afflicted with fear, and crying Oh and Alas, will wander over
the earth without anybody to protect them. And when men will begin to
slay one another, and become wicked and fierce and without any respect
for animal life, then will the Yuga come to an end. And, O king, even the
foremost of the regenerate ones, afflicted by robbers, will, like crows,
fly in terror and with speed, and seek refuge, O perpetuator of the Kuru
race, in rivers and mountains and inaccessible regions. And always
oppressed by bad rulers with burthens of taxes, the foremost of the
regenerate classes, O lord of the earth, will, in those terrible times,
take leave of all patience and do improper acts by becoming even the
servants of the Sudras. And Sudras will expound the scriptures, and
Brahmanas will wait upon and listen to them, and settle their course of
duty accepting such interpretations as their guides. And the low will
become the high, and the course of things will look contrary.

And renouncing the gods, men will worship bones and other relics deposited
within walls. And, at the end of the Yuga, the Sudras will cease to wait
upon and serve the Brahmanas. And in the asylums of great Rishis, and the
teaching institutions of Brahmanas, and in places sacred to the gods and
sacrificial compounds, and in sacred tanks, the earth will be disfigured
with tombs and pillars containing bony relics and not graced with temples
dedicated to the gods. All this will take place at the end of the Yuga,
and know that these are the signs of the end of the Yuga. And when men
become fierce and destitute of virtue and carnivorous and addicted to
intoxicating drinks, then doth the Yuga come to an end. And, O monarch,
when flowers will be begot within flowers, and fruits within fruits, then
will the Yuga come to an end. And the clouds will pour rain unseasonably
when the end of the Yuga approaches. And, at that time, ceremonial rites
of men will not follow one another in due order, and the Sudras will
quarrel with the Brahmanas. And the earth will soon be full of mlecchas,
and the Brahmanas will fly in all directions for fear of the burthen of
taxes. And all distinctions between men will cease as regards conduct and
behaviour, and afflicted with honorary tasks and offices, people will fly
to woody retreats, subsisting on fruits and roots. And the world will be
so afflicted, that rectitude of conduct will cease to be exhibited
anywhere. And disciples will set at naught the instructions of
preceptors, and seek even to injure them. And preceptors impoverished
will be disregarded by men. And friends and relatives and kinsmen will
perform friendly offices for the sake of the wealth only that is
possessed by a person. And when the end of the Yuga comes, everybody will
be in want.

And all the points of the horizon will be ablaze, and the
stars and stellar groups will be destitute of brilliancy, and the planets
and planetary conjunctions will be inauspicious. And the course of the
winds will be confused and agitated, and innumerable meteors will flash
through the sky, foreboding evil. And the Sun will appear with six others
of the same kind. And all around there will be din and uproar, and
everywhere there will be conflagrations. And the Sun, from the hour of
his rising to that of setting, will be enveloped by Rahu. And the deity
of a thousand eyes will shower rain unseasonably. And when the end of the
Yuga comes, crops will not grow in abundance. And the women will always
be sharp in speech and pitiless and fond of weeping. And they will never
abide by the commands of their husbands. And when the end of the Yuga
comes, sons will slay fathers and mothers. And women, living
uncontrolled, will slay their husbands and sons. And, O king, when the
end of the Yuga comes, Rahu will swallow the Sun unseasonably. And fires
will blaze up on all sides. And travellers unable to obtain food and
drink and shelter even when they ask for these, will lie down on the
wayside refraining from urging their solicitations. And when the end of
the Yuga comes, crows and snakes and vultures and kites and other animals
and birds will utter frightful and dissonant cries. And when the end of
the Yuga comes, men will cast away and neglect their friends and
relatives and attendants.

And, O monarch, when the end of the Yuga comes,
men abandoning the countries and directions and towns and cities of their
occupation, will seek for new ones, one after another. And people will
wander over the earth, uttering, 'O father, O son', and such other
frightful and rending cries.

================================
================================

"And when those terrible times will be over, the creation will begin
anew. And men will again be created and distributed into the four orders
beginning with Brahmanas. And about that time, in order that men may
increase, Providence, according to its pleasure, will once more become
propitious. And then when the Sun, the Moon, and Vrihaspati will, with
the constellation Pushya[47], enter the same sign, the Krita age will
begin again. And the clouds will commence to shower seasonably, and the
stars and stellar conjunctions will become auspicious. And the planets,
duly revolving in their orbits, will become exceedingly propitious. And
all around, there will be prosperity and abundance and health and peace.

And commissioned by Kala, a Brahmana of the name of Kalki will take his
birth. And he will glorify Vishnu and possess great energy, great
intelligence, and great prowess. And he will take his birth in a town of
the name of Sambhala in an auspicious Brahmana family.

And vehicles and weapons, and warriors and arms, and coats of mail will be at his disposal as soon as he will think of them. And he will be the king of kings, and
ever victorious with the strength of virtue. And he will restore order
and peace in this world crowded with creatures and contradictory in its
course. And that blazing Brahmana of mighty intellect, having appeared,
will destroy all things. And he will be the Destroyer of all, and will
inaugurate a new Yuga. And surrounded by the Brahmanas, that Brahmana
will exterminate all the mlecchas wherever those low and despicable
persons may take refuge."

Saturday, 07/07/07
As Mayan 'Year Zero' nears, it inspires talk of spiritual rebirth

By RAY WADDLE

Opinion

Humanity is weary. Science is poisoning us, religion dividing us. Earth yearns for transformation. Does the world float closer toward chaos � or toward the Mayan moment?

More than a thousand years ago, the Maya people of Central America charted a 5,126-year calendar and, after gazing skyward and doing the math, saw fit to end it abruptly in 2012, a termination point of the current world cycle.


They didn't know we'd become a civilization of software, world war and Paris Hilton, but they reckoned the world by now would be ready for a fresh start, a spiritual facelift, Year Zero. It's
hard to blame them for thinking so.

And so, five years out from the big date (around Dec. 21, 2012), anticipation grows for the latest dream of a New Age a-coming. (See The New York Times article last Sunday, which notes books like 2012: The Return of Quetzalcoatl by Daniel Pinchbeck and Maya Cosmogenesis 2012: The True Meaning of the Maya Calendar End Date by John Major Jenkins.)

The date coincides with a rare alignment of the sun and the Milky Way's midsection. It happens every 26,000 years. It's hard to know how Mayan stargazers of 900 A.D. could predict this astronomic convergence � if they did so, or cared. Amateurs and experts debate arcane details of calendar accuracies and Mayan intentions. But supporters ascribe hugely mysterious ramifications for human life to 2012. Many cast it as a benign earthly rendezvous with eternity, a grinding halt to negative human impulses, the reconciliation of opposites, an outbreak of peace.

'Convergence' redux

These phrases echo the "Harmonic Convergence" of 20 years ago, which marked a 25-year countdown to 2012. This New Age peace initiative was lampooned as naive and weightless (the "moronic convergence"), but it enlivened a collective dream of alternative spirituality that persists in today's millennial climate of terrorism and ecological anxiety.

Surely the longing for Maya-minded renewal suggests a deficit of big visions in post-Y2K life. Marxism lost credibility after the Soviet disaster. Biblical Armageddon, after so many false claims, goes on holiday. We're left with globalization, anti-globalization and a passion for text-messaging. Religions thrive and agitate, but they send contradictory signals: They enlarge horizons of global compassion � and give people reason for tribal hatreds.

Are the Maya saviors? Scholarly argument says these Mesoamerica ancients would regard 2012 as a celebratory moment, not a stagy endtime intersection.

And New Age vibes, accelerated evolution, sudden leaps from the third dimension to the fifth � these 2012 phrases sound both too vague and too technical for overhauling the human condition.

But lacking other news, other coordinates, the connoisseurs of 2012 are daring to dream ambitious dreams of reconciliation, maybe because no one else will.

http://tennessean.co...70329/1023/NEWS

Anyone with subscription to New York Times articles, can kindly post this article ?

http://select.nytime...DAE0894DF404482

The Final Days

July 1, 2007, Sunday
By BENJAMIN ANASTAS (NYT); Magazine
Late Edition - Final, Section 6, Page 48, Column , 4992 words

DISPLAYING ABSTRACT - Steven from Arizona -- a caller on ''Coast to Coast AM'' late one night in February -- had slipped into a future reality and caught a glimpse of the devastation that was coming when the supervolcano under Yellowstone erupted. James in Omaha, on the other hand, was worried about ...

... 2012� � billed as �a scientific investigation into civilization�s end� � and he came on the air to tell the story of how the ancient Maya looked into ...

Forbidden Archaeology

and sequel

Vedic alternative to Evolution

Vedic Cosmology


Graham Hancock

With the type of constant publicity this 2012 phenomenon is getting in US, i have a nagging feeling that the foggy-bottom, cfr, NWO-walla types are working up a lather of doubt in the minds of people and will encash this opportunity of doubt in people's minds to do some mischief. Anyhow read on ...
http://www.heraldtri...TURES/708140597

Raju, Somewhere you had posted a picture of how Indians could have used the trade winds and the ocean currents to travel to South America? Could you post it again here?
Thanks, ramana

The ancient sea routes from India to South America following the ocean current

The map below-left shows Mt. Meru with petals pointing in four directions. The left petal points toward a distant land called Ketumal or Chetumal. In order to reach that land, they had to go eastward in order to avoid sailing around the tip of Africa.

The Mayans said that the land of their forefathers lay 150 days westward.

Later, they left Chetumal, sailing up the coast to a place reminding them of the beauty of their old home in Konkan. They dropped anchor and made their first home in America there. Not surprisingly, they decided to name their new home Kankun (Cancun). After thousands of years, the last syllable has barely changed in pronunciation.

Chetumal

�Originally, the Asuras or Nagas were not only a civilized people, but a maritime power�,Kadru, the mother of serpents, compelled Garuda (the Eagle or Hawk) to serve her sons by transporting them across the sea to a beautiful land, which was inhabited by Nagas. The Asuras (Nagas) were expert navigators who possessed very considerable naval resources and had founded upon distant coasts.� (The Encircled Serpent by M. Oldfield, p. 47.)

Even today, the Mexican flag has an Eagle with a serpent in its mouth, representing the arrival of the ancient Mexicans to Meso-America. It also represents the arrival of the Meshika to what is now Mexico City.


the Jesuit priest Francisco Xavier Clavigero wrote in Volume I of his Historia Antigua de Messico (Ancient History of Mexico). Clavigero said that the Chiapaneco Mayans told him that a grandson of Noah, Votan, took people to people America. He was from the Chan (Naga or Serpent) tribe. They said that he came from the East, bringing seven groups with him. Two other leaders (Groups?) had also previously brought in settlers: Igh and Imox. He built a great city, now known as Palenque, call �Nauchan,� meaning City of the Serpents. When Noah emerged from the Ark, he and his people built their first city, calling it Nashan (The Noachide Chan).

Votan founded three tributary monarchies called Tulan, Mayapan, and Chiquimala. The ruins of Tulan are those of Tula, Hidalgo, Mexico. Mayapan is the Yucatan peninsula itself. I have not yet located the region of Chiquimala. Perhaps it is Guatemala or the Mayan province of Tzequil.

Map showing the land and sea routes of the ancient Tamils

The ancient Hindu and Mayan civilizations exhibit other interesting convergences. Hindu records say that a member of a great race which preceded ours, a highly-developed personage known as Asuramaya, learned all the basic cosmic cycles and used his knowledge to determine the durations of the various geological and cyclical periods of human evolution. The chronology and computations of their still used Tamil calendar, say the Brahmans, are based upon the works of Asuramaya and upon carefully maintained collateral zodiacal records. Their most ancient extant work on astronomy, the Surya Siddhanta, says that Asuramaya lived toward the end of the Krita-yuga, a former age that ended approximately 2,165,000 years before the present. This would place Asuramaya at something less than 2.5 million years ago.

The name Asuramaya is a compound of the two Sanskrit words, Asura and Maya. The personage himself is Maya, the prefix Asura signifying that Maya was of the Asuras, a name given to a certain caste or people of the great prehistoric race that preceded our own, or Aryan humanity. The word Asura derives from surya, Sanskrit for the sun. In accordance with the archaic Indian manner of describing the matter, the astronomer named Maya was said to have gained his knowledge from studying the sun. The sun and its encircling planets also occupied the central attention of the Mayan astronomer caste in Central America.

The early Hindu thinkers visualized the passage of a race from its birth to its close as embracing four distinct phases or yugas, and they said that races overlapped each other in duration. According to their calculations, the world, in other words our present race, entered the fourth of its phases, which they term the Kali yuga or Iron age, in the year 3102 BC. This event coincided with the death of Krishna , whom they describe as an avatara or incarnation of a lofty divine-spiritual being or messiah. His departure from the earth is said to have ushered in new and different conditions affecting our race. Modern students of the ancient Mayan numerical glyphs have found that the dating of major series of events noted on Mayan stelae invariably give such reckonings in terms of the time elapsed since a date known as 4 Ahau 8 Cumhu. They know that for the Maya chroniclers this date represented a commencement point in time-reckoning of such awesome magnitude that it was central to all else in subsequent Maya history; but they don't know what it meant or why it was so important to the latter.

Among other ancient nations only one, the Hindu peoples of the Indian subcontinent, is known to have developed a system of calendrics accounting for such vast periods of time.

For computing the age of the earth and various geological and other epochs, as well as the age of mankind, the learned Brahman caste still employs a Tamil calendar derived from archaic astronomical data, known as the "Tirukkanda Panchanga" (cf. The Secret Doctrine, 2:49-51).


This calendar contains a calculation of something over three hundred millions of years for the age of the present earth since sedimentation occurred, and a period of somewhat more than eighteen million years since the first appearance of our mankind.

The Hindus are also the only older people besides the Mayans who are known to have employed the concept of zero in their mathematics.

When it comes to human history, however, our scholars hesitate and grow uncertain about man as civilized homo sapiens even as late as 10,000 BC, whereas Hindu savants routinely regard him as at least eighteen million years old -- and if we could read more of the Mayan historical records we might find in them a similar calculation.

The Mayans invented a solar "civil" year of 365 days. We know, however, that they made calendrical emendations and developed a more precise notion of solar time than that embodied in our own calendar.
http://www.hinduwisd...nfo/Pacific.htm


Accurate time difference of places around the world found in ancient Sanskrit texts

Thanks Raju for #134. Needed to show to some one in massa land.

A New Solar X-Ray Phenomenon
By Ted Twietmeyer
tedtw@frontiernet.net
8-18-7

There exists a group of NASA satellites known as GOES. In orbit around the sun, these satellites have monitored the infrared and ultraviolet, visible light, X-ray emissions, magnetic field, proton and electron flux. Although highly chaotic, our nearest star is extremely complex and ever changing. This author has monitored it daily since the mid 90's, and satellite data show that it appears to have generated some peculiar timed radiation patterns. These patterns have been seen in the past. However, they were always accompanied by other phenomenon. For example, solar flares or other elevated levels of activity. Currently our sun is entering a new 11 year cycle which will peak around 2012. (Please don't write me about 2012 - I'm already aware of that date's many implications.)

Today there were five evenly spaced X-Rays pulses which were observed by this author:




White circled area shows five perfectly timed X-Ray pulses. Only GOES 12 shows the source of the X-Ray emissions. All other satellites are quiet at these hours circled above.

Yet there is no other accompanying solar activity. There are no solar flares, no elevated proton or electron flux levels, no change in the magnetic field, no change in the infrared or ultraviolet spectrum or any other known electromagnetic energy. A side note - the higher the Kp levels (green bar graph above) the further south one can see the Aurora.

Here is an enlargement of the white circled area shown above:


Each of the different colors shown above represents data from a different satellite, and each pixel (not easily discernable in this JPEG) represents 5 minute data. Note the evenly stepped drop-off in detected X-rays over three hours detected on August 16 which appears to be detected by only ONE satellite (orange line.) We also see a similar effect by the same satellite shortly after 0000 hours UTC on August 18. And there are three pulses from this satellite shown above, each one EXACTLY 21 hours apart. How can a random, chaotic star generate these patterns?

We also see that five almost perfectly spaced X-Ray emissions were detected by FOUR satellites, not just one. The graph above shows elapsed time in 3 hour intervals. These pulses appear to take place every 3 hours. When I observed other timed X-Ray pulses like this several times in past months, there was increased activity with electron, proton and magnetic field levels making any determination of independent X-Ray pulse generation difficult. I remained silent until the big question could be answered - could this happen without an accompanying increase in any other Solar radiation? Now we know.

One possibility I first proposed several years ago is that Planetary Time Jumps (PTJ) could be related to outside "corrections" made to prevent collision with orbiting near-Earth asteroids [2]. If these celestial bodies were emitting X-Rays as they passed by satellites, we would see a delay in the detection of X-Rays by each satellite. That is to say, the X-Ray peaks in the GOES chart would be out of phase with each other, or simply put, overlapping and not exactly on top of one another. This was not observed. Instead, we see four different satellites showing the same X-Ray peaks simultaneously. This also eliminates any possibility of satellite malfunction, since the odds of all four satellites malfunctioning simultaneously thousands of miles apart is beyond discussion.


THINKING OUTSIDE THE KNOWN BOX

What is not yet known is how or why these pulses were generated. However, it's clearly beyond all doubt these timed X-Ray emissions took place. My work on planetary time jumps three years ago appears to show an X-Ray response from the Sun whenever a PTJ occur.[1] If true, then at least FIVE such jumps have recently taken place. But how can this be?

To perform a PTJ is not simple technology. It is clearly outside publicly known technology and physics. However, it could provide a means to prevent annihilation of the Earth if it were to intersect the orbit a near-Earth object. Most probably it would be used to avoid being exposed to an outburst of a massive, deadly coronal mass ejection from our Sun that could extinguish all life on Earth. Who could do this? Perhaps others "out there" want to protect the Earth for their own selfish reasons and not because they want to protect human beings and other life-forms. Massive evidence already exists that others visit the Earth to mine it for various natural resources, such as water and our DNA.

Other planets in our solar system are effectively dead when compared to Earth. These would simply be left behind in the jump. We wouldn't even notice a time change by looking at other celestial bodies, since very little changes on these planets over long periods of time. The implications of this become quite interesting � still-functioning spacecraft around Mars, the rovers on Mars and the Voyager spacecraft we receive signals from, would be from a different time. These may provide the best indication of time jumps yet: The Voyager spacecraft have been transmitting signals more than 20 years BEYOND THEIR DESIGN LIFE. And the rovers on Mars � should have ceased operating about 6 months into their missions. Yet all continue to operate! Why?

We know today that Mars is heating up and its polar ice is receding. Other planets and moons in our solar system are probably heating up, too. It may also be that although time jump technology can time jump a planet, it cannot jump something as massive as our Sun. If a time jump were to use exactly 24 hour increments, most people wouldn't notice it happened at all. Its human nature to only pay attention to things we're conditioned to see, and ignore everything else.

On my website www.data4science.net , I've documented in the Time Jump section several repeated events observed by various people around the planet For example, passing the same car twice on a highway over a short period of time, or seeing the same person exit a building twice with only one open entrance. Or hearing part of a sentence rapidly repeated on a live radio show as this author did. These may be some of the artifacts of a PTJ. There probably exists tens of thousands of undocumented time jump observations made by countless people worldwide, who simply ignored it as a "figment of their imagination" or just a misconception. PTJs may be the biggest secret of all time, no pun intended.

With regard to the recent X-Ray pulses observed on our sun, this may suggest that as many as FIVE such jumps have recently taken place. If the sun is responsible for the end of time in 2012, it may be that a PTJ could post-pone that event. It may also be that these pulses were created by an outside intelligence, and are being used to communicate with us. Or, an advanced weapon has been used on Earth and we are seeing a response from the sun as space-time was altered. There are other implications too unsettling to discuss.

Ted Twietmeyer

http://www.rense.com...eral77/newx.htm

INNER AWARENESS
Will the world end in 2012?


By Jaime Licauco
Inquirer
Last updated 10:16pm (Mla time) 09/03/2007


MANILA, Philippines�The Mayan calendar predicted the world would end Dec. 21, 2012. Is this true?

Yes, the world, as we know it, will definitely end on that date, but it will not be the end of the world.

I hesitated to write this article because I did not want to scare people. But I was told by an angelic being that I must.

This article began on my way back to Manila from Poland. In a big book and electronics store at the Amsterdam airport, two titles caught my attention: �The End of Time, the Mayan Prophecies Revisited� by Adrian Gilbert and �Building Your Mental Muscle.�

The mysterious Mayan civilization flourished in meso America then disappeared without a trace. It left fabulous temples, pyramids and other strange monuments with stranger writings.

The Mayans always fascinated me. The amazing calendar they left behind traced the precise movements of the planets and the stars without using any instruments. It described the present earth cycle from Aug. 11, 3114 BC, to Dec. 21, 2012.

Back in Manila, I got a copy of an article by novelist Benjamin Anastas about the Mayan prophecies, reprinted from the New York Times, from my neighbor Ricky Gonzales, a management consultant. I was struck by the coincidence.

Escalating phenomenon

The article tells about the growing interest in recent years about doomsday scenarios as predicted by the Mayan calendar.

�The Mayan calendar,� according to the article, �is at the center of an escalating cultural phenomenon, with New Age roots, that unites numinous (spiritual) dreams of societal transformation with the darker tropes of biblical cataclysm. To some, 2012 will bring the end of time; to others, it carries the promise of a new beginning; still to others, 2012 provides an explanation for troubling new realities�environmental change, for example, that seem beyond the control of technology and impervious to reason.�

Predictions about the end of the world is nothing new. Ancient Gnostics, for example, predicted the arrival of God�s kingdom as early as the first century. Christians in Europe attacked pagan territories in the north to prepare for the end of the world in the first millennium.

The Shakers believed the world would end in 1792. The Jehovah�s Witnesses have set the end dates from 1914-1994.

�Any religious movement with an end-time prophecy is certain to attract followers,� says Anastas.

In the Philippines, a religious cult believed the world would end Dec. 31, 1999. Its members went inside a cave in Tagaytay wearing helmets and waited for the end that never came.

A few years before that, a retired military officer predicted the world would be destroyed and two-thirds of the population would perish. The other one-third would be taken by UFOs (unidentified flying objects) through a beam of light.

Different

With all these failed prophecies, why is the Mayan calendar prediction attracting a growing following even in the scientific community? Is there something different about it?

Yes, according to experts.

John Major Jenkins says the Mayan lineage goes back to 2000 years. He argues that the ancient Maya �calendar priests� charted a 26,000-year astronomical cycle, called precession of the equinoxes, with the naked eye.

The 2012 end-date coincides with the �galactic alignment� of the winter solstice sun and the axis that modern astronomers draw to bisect the Milky Way, called the galactic equator.

Adrian Gilbert, in his book �The End of Time,� says, �Not only is the night of 21-22 December the longest in the year, but because of the precession of the equinoxes it corresponds with the day the sun stands exactly at one of the star-gate crossing-points of the elliptic with the median plane of the Milky Way.�

Gilbert names this position the �southern star gate�its counterpart, the northern star gate being placed exactly over the up stretched hand of Orion.�

Precession refers to the �slow movement of the axis of a spinning object around another axis.� Equinox is �the time the sun crosses the celestial equator, when day and night are of equal length.�

Gilbert says this means on Dec. 22, any person observing the sun will also be looking toward the core of the Milky Way, the place astronomers say has a black hole with a mass some three million times that of our sun.

Gilbert believes what was prophesied in the Book of Revelations is already happening, coinciding with the Mayan calendar. �This moment,� says Gilbert, �when the sun is located at the southern star gate and Orion, with its northern star gate, is dominant in the night sky, will signify the termination of the tribulation prophesied in the Book of Revelation and the true beginning of a new age.�

Note: For inquiries on Inner Mind Development, ESP and Intuition Development, and Soulmates, Karma & Reincarnation seminars by this writer, call 8107245, 8926806, fax 8159890, or e-mail innerawareness_2005@yahoo.com.ph. For Davao seminar Sept. 29 and Oct. 1, call Jess Saplala at 0917-8313649.



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http://showbizandsty...rticle_id=86415

Raju, A white tortoise was found in Andhra Pradesh. Very rare event.

Connect me to the relevance ramana ? thanks

http://www.forbes.co...l_1015ages.html
The History Of The Future
Mark Lewis 10.15.07, 6:00 PM ET



The future, as a concept, was born in ancient Mesopotamia, when people began studying the heavens for clues to impending events. But the Babylonians and their fellow stargazers (including the Maya) had a limited idea of the future: They thought time was cyclical, so they were not inclined to contemplate the shape of things to come. What goes around, comes around; why conjure up visions of an improved future Babylon if it will only be destroyed when the cycle ends?

These days, certain New Age seers who study the Mayan "Long Count" calendar have concluded that time's current cycle is due to end--cataclysmically--on Dec. 21, 2012. Consider yourself warned. But most of us look at time as a linear continuum, and we expect the future to be different than the present. For the more optimistic among us, the future will not merely be different--it will be better.

Where did we get this idea? Not from the Greeks and Romans, who "really did not have any idea of progress per se," says history professor Timothy Burke, who teaches a course at Swarthmore College about the cultural history of the idea of the future.
In Pictures: Futurists Through The Ages

Nor did we get it from the great Eastern religions, Hinduism and Buddhism, which emphasize reincarnation and a cyclical sense of time. Judaism, in contrast, is rooted in a sense of history, which it bequeathed to Christianity. And for Christians, time is most definitely linear: It began with the Creation and it will end on Judgment Day. In between, according to Saint Augustine, there is room for progress toward a better world.

Most Christian prognosticators during the Middle Ages were fixated on the Book of Revelation, which points to the Apocalypse. But in due course came the Renaissance, which gave rise to the Scientific Revolution and the Enlightenment--and it was at this point, Burke says, that the idea of a better future took hold. At first, it was a matter of moral progress: Mankind was expected to use reason to develop philosophically. "In the 19th century, that kind of idea becomes much more technological and scientific," Burke says.

The key transition figure was Charles Lyell, whose Principles of Geology, first published in 1830, promulgated the concept of geologic time. This was a world-shaking development, comparable to the insight of Copernicus that the Earth revolved around the sun. Prior to the 19th century, people in the West had generally assumed that the world was less than 6,000 years old. After Lyell, people had to contend with the mind-boggling idea that the world was, in fact, billions of years old, with billions of years still to come. Human history was merely a blip on this cosmic timeline.

Next, Charles Darwin jumped in with a theory that made good use of all this time, by giving it over to evolution. And evolution need not be limited to biology. If the so-called Social Darwinists such as Herbert Spencer were right, society would inevitably develop into something more splendid in the future.

Seers such as Jules Verne started writing books that imagined various high-tech futures, when people would travel to the moon, to the center of the Earth, or to the bottom of the ocean, which (per Verne) was located 20,000 leagues under the sea. Then the Victorians passed into history, succeeded by a more pessimistic generation which envisioned dystopian futures, like H.G. Wells' War of the Worlds, Aldous Huxley's Brave New World and George Orwell's 1984.

Throughout the 20th century, the cult of progress was besieged by dissenters who thought the future was fraught with unpleasant possibilities. Still, the optimists have held their own, and they celebrated a particular triumph on July 20, 1969, when Neil Armstrong of the Apollo 11 mission first walked on the moon, as prophesied by Verne. Yet the No. 1 song on the Billboard pop chart that same week was the anti-technology screed "In the Year 2525" by Zager and Evans, which hinted at a return to cyclical time. The song was the biggest hit of 1969, an indication that the future remained a problematic concept for many people.

Zager and Evans were one-hit wonders who soon disappeared from the charts--whereas the cult of progress remains a going concern in 2007. The song from Casablanca said it better: The fundamental things apply, as time goes by.

Raju, Of all the people I thought you would connect immediately. The Kurma avatara was to enable the churning of the Khseera Sagara (the Milky way). It could be a harbinger of the stellar alignment this thread talks about.

Off course all this is if you believe. if you dont its an albino tortoise or a genetic mistake!

Deccan Chronicle


And mind you Warangal is land locked.

Pardon me for the delayed response, it skipped me completely. And yes, I believe in every event and take the holistic view. In that view every dot connects and every clue helps solving the bigger puzzle. So divine clues are being dropped that we are indeed entering 'yuga sandhyayam'.

I wonder if Anglo-Saxon interest in researching esoteric subjects is an out growth of their reading the Nazi files after the defeat of Nazi Germany? This research started picking up in the late sixties by which time some of the stuff might have been absorbed and understood.
Most of the researchers hae this air of being drop outs from the mainstream path.

Yes, definitely there is a Nazi link in wider dispersion of such theories in west..

http://www.mental-ra...ntro/index2.htm

So now you have an idea what's going on.

one of the most unknown thing of the Vril society is their components (women) and their alleged estethic (long hair).

"But unlike the other two groups the Vril Gesellschaft were an inner circle of women who were also fighting against their times and culture. They were psychic mediums that wore a horse-tail hairstyle. They believed that their long hair acted as cosmic antennae to receive alien communication from beyond."



Alldeutsche Gesellschaft f�r Metaphysik - 20 Jahre Vril G.


Maria Orsitsch ('Orsic')


contd..

contd..

Maria Orsitsch


Traute


Traute (notice the eagle embroided on the chest)


contd..

contd..
Sigrun (next to a plane)


Unknown


As written in the document, maybe Sigrun? (one again in the sketch, an embroided eagle)


contd..

contd..
A document featuring the Vril Gesellschaft logo

From post 150



Dr. W.O. Schumann worked on special batteries and on odd dipolar radio frequency sending units during the war at Die Technische Hochschule Muenchen. He later announced the Schumann Resonance, came to the USA, and probably was responsible for modern ELF communications, especially useful for submarines, as it was for the Germans during World War Two. Rumors have it that Schumann, using Tesla standing wave transmission technology (which he patented) at the frequency of the Schumann Resonance, and using his dipolar antenneas, was able to send enough energy to American submarines to recharge their batteries on the other side of the planet as they dug mile long antenneas to receive this energy.


So Anglo-Saxon interest in researching esoteric subjects and occult got a jumpstart after they began coming to terms with it after they started studying Nazi technology & its development patterns.


some links
http://english.pravd...-nazi_germany-0
On Bulwert-Lytton: Agharta, Shambala, Vril and the Occult Roots of Nazi Power
http://www.foundatio...ulwerLytton.pdf

Acharya, your question of 2012 from western perspective and why other cultures are being studied has now probably been answered.



they started studying it after they came in contact with the Nazi files and details of their technology. this prompted them to also look towards other cultures for answers. This much is clear now after the Nazi links have been exposed/connected.

Let us gather a bit more info about this Vril occult...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vril



the above connects with the description of the Agartha society which is considered to be subterranean and as per Srimad Bhagvatam is the origin for Kalki.



http://www.sacred-te.../vril/index.htm




Vril is one of many names for the primal life force, otherwise known as chi, prana, mana, od, magnetism, etc. Yogis and psychics master it to perform "miracles" materializing objects out of thin air, spontaneous healing, walking on fire . . . Mastering Vril = Mind over Matter.

RAJU, YES These Indication point to the long German/NAZI exposure to HINDU/BUDDHISTS texts for over 250 years. THis was obtained by the Americans, Russians and the British after they defeated German Nazi.

Where did the Nazi get most of the text and literature of Indian subcontinent. They also had an expedition to Tibet in the early 1920s and 1930s. They may have obtained lot of texts and literature of India from Lhasa and Tibet. This may explain the capture of Tibet by China from 1950s.


Now after 1960s and thru the 1970s and 1980s the western researchers may have done research using these text to study, occult, new science and abnormal phenomenon. They may have kept it secret and these may be linked to 2012.

>>This may explain the capture of Tibet by China from 1950s.

Yess.

below is some german translated text

Some Nazi relic technology:



http://www.eyepod.or...isc-Photos.html
http://www.zamandayo...a1/NaziUFO5.htm

Russian copies:
EKIP
http://www.ekip-aviation-concern.com/

Submarine Technology





http://www.uboat.net/types/xviia.htm



Technical information for Wa 201 (Type XVIIA)
Oil Supply (tons): 18 max + 34 (H2O2)


Technical information for Wk 202
Oil Supply (tons): 14 max + 40 (H2O2)



"Verblieb zur Zeit noch nicht geklaert" = Remains to this time still not clarified."




As the text says both of this people were official members of the first German expedition to Neuschwabenland. This is the list, and the names are underlined:

The newest claim concering the German base at Neuschwabenland has just been made by British researcher and civil servant with an agency of the UK Ministry of Defense, James Robert, who, in the Nov.-Dec. 2005 edition of Nexus magazine, claims that:

A work drawing/plan of the first Haunebu model, built in 1939... It had a diameter of 25m. It flew thanks to what the Germans called a "Mag(netic) Field Impulser", as specified on the plan...



A work drawing/plan of the Haunebu II model, built in 1942/1943. It's diameter varied from 26m to 36m.

A work drawing/plan of the Haunebu II model, built in 1942/1943. It had a diameter of 71m.


The Andromeda was a craft with a diameter of 139m that was meant to transport troops, up to 5 saucers, and equipment. It was probably not built, although they could have done it easily... Maybe some of the "flying cigars" that have been seen are later models...

The Vril society built their first working flying saucer already in 1934! They started working on flying saucers in 1922. The Vril-8 Odin was built by the NAZIs somewhere around 1945... [


This is the model that was built after The Vril 5. Here it's on a base, with a car parked behind it...


Another picture of the Vril 6 on an airbase, with a man holding on to it.

The 1st Vril model, built around 1941.


Some sources say RFZ stands for "Rund Flugzeuge", meaning "Round Airplane", while others say it stands for "Reichsflugzeuge", meaning "Airplane of the Reich".


Probably a model from the Haunebu series. The Nazis built their first Haunebu in 1939...



Detail of the Haunebu's gun. The NAZIs tried several methods of mounting guns on their saucers, but the guns made the saucers very unstable. So they ended by giving up on that idea and later used what was called a "PHASER" weapon, which stands for "Phased Energy Rectifier", a weapon that put out a single shaft of concentrated phasic energy that could tore through armor.

Raju,

Have you also studied the development of Occultism in Russia at around the same time? A series of theosophists and spiritists appeared in Russia before the dawn of the last century. Many of them studied the tantra practices from 'pagans' like bouls and sibarian tribals and other "hidden" peoples. Some went to India and tibet.

Of note is the final and major of these - Gurdjieff, an armenian.

This process got abruptly aborted with the communist rise. With that, some of these schools and soceities, including that of Gurdjieff's own, quitely disappeared and later resurfaced in USA (and some in UK) where they continued with an insignificant and low profile.

Are you by any chance referring to Mme Blavatsky ?


She is responsible for having established a way of thinking and the bases which would later give place to societies such as the Thule society and the nazi esotherism.

It is interesting to know her point of view (later people following it would be called theosophists), and anyone seriously studying the Thule society and others must know at least the basics about Madame Blavatsky.

http://en.wikipedia....rovna_Blavatsky

---------------------------------------------------
here are some more pictures of the RFZ's:
http://www.fast-gehe...flugzeuge1.html
http://www.fast-gehe...flugzeuge2.html
http://www.fast-gehe...flugzeuge3.html
http://www.fast-gehe...eichnungen.html

Yes Raju, Blavtsky was also one of them.

============

Also,

Some painting or sculpture that I had come across depicting the arrival of Rama in Ayodhya from Lanka - was showing the pushpaka vimana in it, which looked quite similar in appearance to the images you posted above (thanks!). Just an interesting thought. The sculptures/painting were certainly much older. Let me see if I can find.

If one takes a look at that Andromeda Great model, this article will make more sense..




Andromeda-Ger�t


Same as in this diagram

Alright...was easy.

One of these is here:



The Pushpak Aircraft
1916
by Balasaheb Pandit Pant Pratinidhi
Source: Chitra Ramayana by Ramachandra Madhwa Mahishi, Illustrated by Balasaheb Pandit Pant Pratinidhi

Bodhi, that image does not load.

Will it be true to conclude that German technological leap pre WWII was mainly due to access to buddhist and hindu texts which gave them access to new sciences and fields previously unknown to west like abnormal phenomenon as well as occult, which probably acted as medium to give breakthroughs ?

Also post WWII the German technological prowess was divided amongst US, Russia, France, and China to a smaller extent. The entire western world still rests on the laurels of that German breakthrough in profiting from its eastern discoveries.

US shipped hordes of German engineers to Huntsville: Alabama, Fort Wright, Cape Canaveral via operation paperclip and spirited away as war booty lot of Nazi files and technology.

USSR (first country to possess intercontinental missiles: direct from Peenem�nde ; first man in space: direct from German technology: Yangel, von Ardenne...)

France: SNECMA biggest postwar aeronautics French concern, filled up with Germans, this was confirmed by SNECMA's CEO privately. And Ariane rockets are German technology too.

China: a space power. Its rockets are German technology (Wolfgang Pilz, Peenem�nde).

+ Spain, Argentina, Egypt, Lybia, Iraq, etc...

Raju,

I have not studied the particular subject enough to support with assertion what you said.

however this much is clear. During the medieval India, Indian intellect was busy fighting a war of survival, and at best trying to preserve and pass on some memory of the past knowledge. Mathematics, Medicine, Astronomy, Navigation, Manufacturing, Metallurgy, Military - and many humanities like Law, Polity, Diplomacy, Language, Socialogy, Accounting, Public Administration - all these subjects Indians were not able to pursue for growth and natural modernization, because of the prevailing tyranny of various colonializations. So, of these subjects in India, today if you try to trace back - you reach at a plethora of some faint memory and some hints myred in mythology. They are kind of lost to us except for some parts and pieces. It is painful to see the situation. That world is largely lost to us now.

During the same period, Europe (with Germany and Russia in lead) were freeing themselves up of the 'true' Christianism, and parallelly trying to gain more traditional-sourced knowledge, including the spiritual. This happened earlier via reviving some of the traditional 'pagan' knowledge, some via Arabic colonialization and subsequent liberation, and finally via gaining direct access to stealing and smuggling our own knowledge-body with the European colonization and accompanied loot of the entire Asia. With the new knowledge, and dominance of many types, Leuko-Anglo world surpassed the rest by a few centuries.

Let us explore the SS connection to Tibet further:

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Gs1nxXmlN_M

German expeditions video: Neuschwabenland, Middle East, South America, Tibet.

Um den Anspruch des NS-Regimes auf Weltherrschaft mit wissenschaftlichen Methoden zu begr�nden, r�stete das �Dritte Reich� aufwendige Expeditionen aus, die nur einem einzigen Ziel dienen sollten: Beweise f�r die kulturelle �berlegenheit der germanischen Rasse zu finden.

Dazu diente auch ein Forschungsunternehmen, das von Heinrich Himmler und seinem Amt �SS-Ahnenerbe� geleitet wurde. Im Auftrag des SS-Chefs fahndete 1938 der Zoologe Ernst Sch�fer mit seinem Team nach Beweisen f�r abstruse Theorien, die im Dunstkreis Himmlers als �Wissenschaft� gehandelt wurden. Himmler glaubte an eine nordische Herrenrasse, die den Untergang des sagenhaften Atlantis �berlebt habe. Einige �berlebende sollten sich angeblich nach Tibet gerettet haben. Die deutsche Industrie finanzierte die Expedition mit erheblichen Mitteln.

Ein Einreisevisum erhielt Expeditionsleiter Ernst Sch�fer nur mit Hilfe der Briten, die zu jenem Zeitpunkt die deutsche Regierung nicht ver�rgern wollten. Sch�fer selbst hielt im Hinblick auf die "Verwendbarkeit f�r die Kriegswirtschaft und k�nftige Siedlungsgebiete im Osten" Ausschau nach geeigneten Getreidek�rnern, Samen und einer robusten Pferderasse, die im Krieg eingesetzt werden sollte. Bruno Beger, Anthropologe und SS Obersturmf�hrer, verma� die Sch�del von �ber 200 Tibetern und forschte in den Gesichtern der Himalaja-Bewohner nach �arischen Z�gen�. Aber was mit spinnerter Germanen-Schw�rmerei begann, endete bei grausamen Experimenten an vermeintlichen �Untermenschen�.

Nach der Reise zum Dach der Welt arbeitete Beger an einem Forschungsprogramm zur Erstellung einer vergleichenden Skelettsammlung. Dazu wurden H�ftlinge eines Konzentrationslagers selektiert und ermordet.

�Der Film beleuchtet ein weitgehend unbekanntes Kapitel der NS-Wissenschaft zwischen Tibet und Auschwitz�, erl�utert Wolfgang Fandrich, MDR-Redaktionsleiter Zeitgeschehen. �Rassenwahn und Forschergeist� gingen bei den Expeditionen der Nazis eine unselige Verbindung ein. Das Urteil �ber die Wissenschaftler, die unter der Hakenkreuzfahne ferne und exotische L�nder erforschten, f�llt eindeutig aus: Sie stellten sich in den Dienst einer kruden Ideologie und eines menschenverachtendes Regimes.�

http://www3.mdr.de/d...azis_tibet.html
__________________

Raju,

I will edit the URL of the image.

========

Blavtsky, and many decades after her, Gurdjieff. The prime similarity is
- the yearning for the knowledge that was traditional, lost and, hidden for survival
- mentions of remarkable, masters of the past.

difference was, while Blavtsky came to India and made her home at Prayag, contributed through writings, and rejected Christianism - Gurdjieff never visited India never directly mentions it, though if you read a bit of his works traditional India's influence is very obvious, and also he did not 'reject' christianism - just ignored it or even little bit tried to salvage it from ignorance.

more on him:

Behistun

In 1938, Ahnenerbe president Walther W�st proposed a trip to Iran to study the Behistun Inscription, which had been created by order of the Achaemenid Shah Darius I--who W�st believed to have been of Nordic origin. The inscriptions were recorded atop steep cliffs using scaffolding that was removed after the inscriptions were made. Unable to afford the cost of erecting new scaffolds, W�st proposed that he, his wife, an amanuensis, an Iranian student, a photographer, and an experienced mountaineer be sent with a balloon-mounted camera. The onset of the war however, saw the trip postponed indefinitely.

_________________________


Tibet

In 1937 Himmler decided he could increase the Ahnenerbe�s visibility by investigating Hans F.K. G�nther�s claims that early Aryans had conquered much of Asia, including attacks against China and Japan in approximately 2000 BC, and that Gautama Buddha was himself an Aryan offspring of the Nordic race. Walther W�st would later expand upon this, stating in a public speech that Adolf Hitler�s ideologies corresponded with those of Buddha, since the two shared a common heritage.

Members

Ernst Sch�fer was a member of the SS when he showed up at the German consulate in Chung-King in 1935. Sch�fer had just returned from a trip through parts of Asia, mainly India and China, in which the other two heads of the expedition had abandoned him in fear of native tribes.


Sch�fer turned the expedition from a complete failure into a great success, and the SS took note, sending him a letter informing him of a promotion to SS-Untersturmf�hrer and summoning him back to Germany from Philadelphia where he was organizing the collection from his voyage. In June 1936, Sch�fer met with Himmler, who consequently informed Sievers and Galke to start organizing an expedition to Tibet.


Sch�fer recruited young, fit men who would be well suited for an arduous journey. At age 24, Karl Wienert (an assistant of Wilhelm Filchner, a famous explorer) was the team�s geologist. Also age 24, Edmund Geer was selected as the technical leader to organize the expedition. A relatively old teammate at the age of 38 was Ernst Krause (not to be confused with the German biologist of the same name) was to double as a filmmaker and entomologist. Bruno Beger was a 26 year old Rassekunde expert and student of G�nther who was to be the team�s anthropologist.

The Expedition

The first problem to come up for the Tibetan expedition occurred during a duck hunting accident on November 9, 1937 when Sch�fer, his wife of four months, and two servants were in a rowboat. A sudden wave caused Sch�fer to drop his gun which broke in two and discharged, mortally wounding his wife. Despite subsequent emotional problems, Sch�fer was back to work on the expedition in eight weeks.


In July 1937 the team suffered another setback when Japan invaded China. ruining Sch�fer�s plans to use the Yangtze River to reach Tibet. Sch�fer flew to London to seek permission to travel through India, but was turned down by the British government who feared an imminent war with Germany.
In a move that lost the Ahnenerbe�s support, Sch�fer asked Himmler for permission to just show up in India and try to barge his way into Tibet. Himmler willingly accepted, even helping Sch�fer by contacting influential people, including Germany�s foreign minister Joachim von Ribbentrop. On April 21, 1938 the team departed from Genoa, Italy on their way to Ceylon where they would then travel to Calcutta, India.


The day before the team left Europe the V�lkischer Beobachter ran an article on the expedition, alerting English officials of their intentions. Sch�fer and Himmler were both enraged: Sch�fer complained to the SS headquarters and Himmler in turn wrote to Admiral Barry Domvile. Domvile was a Nazi supporter and former head of British naval intelligence who gave the letter to Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain who allowed the SS team permission to enter Sikkim, a region bordering Tibet.





In Sikkim�s capital of Gangtok, the team assembled a 50-mule caravan and searched for porters and Tibetan interpreters. Here, the British official, Sir Basil Gould observed them, describing Sch�fer as �interesting, forceful, volatile, scholarly, vain to the point of childishness, disregardful of social convention,� and noted that he was determined to enter Tibet regardless of permission.



The team began their journey June 21, 1938, traveling through the Teesta River valley and then heading north. Krause worked light traps to capture insects, Wienert toured the hills making measurements, Geer collected bird species and Beger offered locals medical help in exchange for allowing him to take measurements of them.



In August 1938, a high official of the Rajah Tering, a member of the Sikkimese royal family living in Tibet, entered the team�s camp. Although Beger wished to ask the guest�s permission to measure him, he was dissuaded by the Tibetan porters who encouraged to wait for Sch�fer to return from a hunting trip. Sch�fer met with the official, and presented him with mule-loads of gifts.



In December 1938 the Tibetan council of ministers invited Sch�fer and his team to Tibet, although forbid them from killing any animals during their stay, citing religious concerns. After a supply trip back to Gangtok, where Sch�fer learned he had been promoted to SS-Hauptsturmf�hrer, and the rest of the team had been promoted to SS-Obersturmf�hrer.
During the trip to Tibet�s highlands, Beger began making facial casts of local people, including his personal servant, a Nepalese Sherpa named Passang. During the first casting, paste got into one of Passang�s nostrils and he panicked, tearing at the mask. Sch�fer threatened the employment of the porters who had seen the incident, if they told anyone.
On January 19, 1939, the team reached Lhasa, the capital of Tibet. Sch�fer proceeded to pay his respects to the Tibetan ministers and a nobleman. He also gave out Nazi pennants, explaining the shared symbol�s reverence in Germany.[1] His permission to remain in Lhasa was extended, and he was permitted to photograph and film the region. The team spent two months in Lhasa, collecting information on agriculture, culture, and religion, even receiving a copy of the 108-volume encyclopedia of Lamaism (only three copies of which had been given to Europeans and had never been translated).

After leaving Lhasa, the team traveled to the Yarlung Valley--a region British officials had been denied entry into. The team observed the valley and the ancient stronghold of Yumbulagang, but the approaching war threatened their research, and they began preparing plans to return via a flight from Calcutta to Baghdad, and eventually back to Germany. Their final inventory included nearly 2,000 photographs, 17 head casts and the measurements of 376 people, as well as having sent back specimens of three breeds of Tibetan dogs, rare feline species, wolves, badgers, foxes, animal and bird skins, and the seeds for 1,600 types of barley, 700 varieties of wheat, 700 varieties of oats and hundreds of other types of seeds. In addition, the team had been given a Tibetan mastiff, a gold coin and the robe of a lama( believed by Sch�fer to have been worn by the Dalai Lama) to be gifted to Adolf Hitler.
Sch�fer arrived in Munich on August 4, 1939, and was greeted personally by Himmler, who presented him a Totenkopfring. Because of the war, Sch�fer�s writings about the trip were not published until 1950, under the title Festival of the White Gauze Scarves: A research expedition through Tibet to Lhasa, the holy city of the god realm.

Source: http://www.answers.com/topic/ahnenerbe
__________________

Raju: have edited the image URL. Also see 176.

Now it is clear.

So Gurdjieff was Blavatsky-lite, what constituency was he addressing ?

here is another western researcher on vimanas,

http://www.sacred-te...om/ufo/aiac.htm
Ancient Indian Aircraft Technology
From The Anti-Gravity Handbook

by D. Hatcher Childress

Many researchers into the UFO enigma tend to overlook a very important
fact. While it assumed that most flying saucers are of alien, or perhaps
Governmental Military origin, another possible origin of UFOs is ancient
India and Atlantis. What we know about ancient Indian flying vehicles comes
from ancient Indian sources; written texts that have come down to us through
the centuries. There is no doubt that most of these texts are authentic;
many are the well known ancient Indian Epics themselves, and there are
literally hundreds of them. Most of them have not even been translated into
English yet from the old sanskrit.
The Indian Emperor Ashoka started a "Secret Society of the Nine Unknown
Men": great Indian scientists who were supposed to catalogue the many
sciences. Ashoka kept their work secret because he was afraid that the
advanced science catalogued by these men, culled from ancient Indian sources,
would be used for the evil purpose of war, which Ashoka was strongly against,
having been converted to Buddhism after defeating a rival army in a bloody
battle. The "Nine Unknown Men" wrote a total of nine books, presumably one
each. Book number was "The Secrets of Gravitation!" This book, known to
historians, but not actually seen by them dealt chiefly with "gravity
control." It is presumably still around somewhere, kept in a secret library
in India, Tibet or elsewhere (perhaps even in North America somewhere). One
can certainly understand Ashoka's reasoning for wanting to keep such
knowledge a secret, assuming it exists.
Ashoka was also aware of devastating wars using such advanced vehicles
and other "futuristic weapons" that had destroyed the ancient Indian "Rama
Empire" several thousand years before. Only a few years ago, the Chinese
discovered some sanskrit documents in Lhasa, Tibet and sent them to the
University of Chandrigarh to be translated. Dr. Ruth Reyna (Raina?)of the University
said recently that the documents contain directions for building interstellar
spaceships! Their method of propulsion, she said, was "anti- gravitational"
and was based upon a system analogous to that of "laghima," the unknown power
of the ego existing in man's physiological makeup, "a centrifugal force
strong enough to counteract all gravitational pull." According to Hindu
Yogis, it is this "laghima" which enables a person to levitate.
Dr. Reyna said that on board these machines, which were called "Astras"
by the text, the ancient Indians could have sent a detachment of men onto any
planet, according to the document, which is thought to be thousands of years
old. The manuscripts were also said to reveal the secret of "antima"; "the
cap of invisibility" and "garima"; "how to become as heavy as a mountain of
lead." Naturally, Indian scientists did not take the texts very seriously,
but then became more positive about the value of them when the Chinese
announced that they were including certain parts of the data for study in
their space program! //contrast behaviour of dhimmis to the Chinese who aren't mentally enslaved This was one of the first instances of a government
admitting to be researching anti-gravity.
The manuscripts did not say definitely that interplanetary travel was
ever made but did mention, of all things, a planned trip to the Moon, though
it is not clear whether this trip was actually carried out. However, one of
the great Indian epics,the Ramayana, does have a highly detailed story in it
of a trip to the moon in a Vimana (or "Astra"), and in fact details a battle
on the moon with an "Asvin" (or Atlantean") airship. This is but a small bit
of recent evidence of anti-gravity and aerospace technology used by Indians.
To really understand the technology, we must go much further back in
time. The so-called "Rama Empire" of Northern India and Pakistan developed at
least fifteen thousand years ago on the Indian subcontinent and was a nation
of many large, sophisticated cities, many of which are still to be found in
the deserts of Pakistan, northern, and western India. Rama existed,
apparently, parallel to the Atlantean civilization in the mid- Atlantic Ocean,
and was ruled by "enlightened Priest-Kings" who governed the cities.
The seven greatest capital cities of Rama were known in classical Hindu
texts as "The Seven Rishi Cities." According to ancient Indian texts, the
people had flying machines which were called "Vimanas." The ancient Indian
epic describes a Vimana as a doubledeck, circular aircraft with portholes and
a dome, much as we would imagine a flying saucer. It flew with the "speed of
the wind" and gave forth a"melodious sound." There were at least four
different types of Vimanas; some saucer shaped, others like long cylinders
("cigar shaped airships"). The ancient Indian texts on Vimanas are so
numerous, it would take volumes to relate what they had to say. The ancient
Indians, who manufactured these ships themselves, wrote entire flight manuals
on the control of the various types of Vimanas, many of which are still in
existence, and some have even been translated into English.
The Samara Sutradhara is a scientific treatise dealing with every
possible angle of air travel in a Vimana. There are 230 stanzas dealing with
the construction, take-off, cruising for thousand of miles, normal and forced
landings, and even possible collisions with birds. In 1875, the Vaimanika
Sastra, a fourth century B.C. text written by Bharadvajy the Wise, using even
older texts as his source, was rediscovered in a temple in India. It dealt
with the operation of Vimanas and included information on the steering,
precautions for long flights, protection of the airships from storms and
lightning and how to switch the drive to "solar energy" from a free energy
source which sounds like "anti-gravity." The Vaimanika Sastra (or
Vymaanika-Shaastra) has eight chapters with diagrams, describing three types
of aircraft, including apparatuses that could neither catch on fire nor
break. It also mentions 31 essential parts of these vehicles and 16 materials
from which they are constructed, which absorb light and heat; for which
reason they were considered suitable for the construction of Vimanas.
This document has been translated into English and is available by
writing the publisher: VYMAANIDASHAASTRA AERONAUTICS by Maharishi
Bharadwaaja, translated into English and edited, printed and published by Mr.
G. R.Josyer, Mysore, India, 1979 (sorry, no street address). Mr. Josyer is
the director of the International Academy of Sanskrit Investigation, located
in Mysore. There seems to be no doubt that Vimanas were powered by some sort
of "anti-gravity." Vimanas took off vertically, and were capable of hovering
in the sky, like a modern helicopter or dirigible. Bharadvajy the Wise refers
to no less than 70 authorities and 10 experts of air travel in antiquity.
These sources are now lost. Vimanas were kept in a Vimana Griha, a kind
of hanger, and were sometimes said to be propelled by a yellowish-white
liquid, and sometimes by some sort of mercury compound, // Plz refer to mercury being carried in large quantities in a German submarine which was capture enroute probably on way to a German base rumored to be shwabenland though writers seem
confused in this matter. It is most likely that the later writers on Vimanas,
wrote as observers and from earlier texts, and were understandably confused
on the principle of their propulsion. The "yellowish- white liquid" sounds
suspiciously like gasoline, and perhaps Vimanas had a number of different
propulsion sources, including combustion engines and even "pulse-jet"
engines. It is interesting to note, that the Nazis developed the first
practical pulse-jet engines for their V-8 rocket "buzz bombs." Hitler and the
Nazi staff were exceptionally interested in ancient India and Tibet and sent
expeditions to both these places yearly, starting in the 30's, in order to
gather esoteric evidence that they did so, and perhaps it was from these
people that the Nazis gained some of their scientific information!
According to the Dronaparva, part of the Mahabarata, and the Ramayana,
one Vimana described was shaped like a sphere and born along at great speed
on a mighty wind generated by mercury. It moved like a UFO, going up, down,
backwards and forwards as the pilot desired. In another Indian source, the
Samar, Vimanas were "iron machines, well-knit and smooth, with a charge of
mercury that shot out of the back in the form of a roaring flame." Another
work called the Samaranganasutradhara describes how the vehicles were
constructed. It is possible that mercury did have something to do with the
propulsion, or more possibly, with the guidance system. Curiously, Soviet
scientists have discovered what they call "ageold instruments used in
navigating cosmic vehicles" in caves in Turkestan and the Gobi Desert. The
"devices" are hemispherical objects of glass or porcelain, ending in a cone
with a drop of mercury inside.
It is evident that ancient Indians flew around in these vehicles, all
over Asia, to Atlantis presumably; and even, apparently, to South
America.Writing found at Mohenjodaro in Pakistan (presumed to be one of the
"Seven Rishi Cities of the Rama Empire") and still undeciphered, has also
been found in one other place in the world: Easter Island! Writing on Easter
Island, called Rongo-Rongo writing, is also undeciphered, and is uncannily
similar to the Mohenjodaro script. Was Easter Island an air base for the Rama
Empire's Vimana route? (At the Mohenjo- Daro Vimana-drome, as the passenger
walks down the concourse, he hears the sweet, melodic sound of the announcer
over the loudspeaker,"Rama Airways flight number seven for Bali, Easter
Island, Nazca, and Atlantis is now ready for boarding. Passengers please
proceed to gate number..") in Tibet, no small distance, and speaks of the
"fiery chariot" thus: "Bhima flew along in his car, resplendent as the sun
and loud as thunder... The flying chariot shone like a flame in the night sky
of summer ... it swept by like a comet... It was as if two suns were
shining. Then the chariot rose up and all the heaven brightened."
In the Mahavira of Bhavabhuti, a Jain text of the eighth century culled
from older texts and traditions, we read: "An aerial chariot, the Pushpaka,
conveys many people to the capital of Ayodhya. The sky is full of stupendous
flying-machines, dark as night,but picked out by lights with a yellowish
glare." The Vedas, ancient Hindu poems, thought to be the oldest of all the
Indian texts, describe Vimanas of various shapes and sizes: the
"ahnihotravimana" with two engines, the"elephant-vimana" with more engines,
and other types named after the kingfisher, ibis and other animals.
Unfortunately, Vimanas, like most scientific discoveries, were
ultimately used for war. Atlanteans used their flying machines, "Vailixi," a
similar type of aircraft, to literally try and subjugate the world, it would
seem, if Indian texts are to be believed. The Atlanteans, known as "Asvins"
in the Indian writings, were apparently even more advanced technologically
than the Indians, and certainly of a more war-like temperament. Although no
ancient texts on Atlantean Vailixi are known to exist, some information has
come down through esoteric, "occult" sources which describe their flying
machines.
Similar, if not identical to Vimanas, Vailixi were generally "cigar
shaped" and had the capability of manoeuvering underwater as well as in the
atmosphere or even outer space. Other vehicles, like Vimanas, were saucer
shaped, and could apparently also be submerged.According to Eklal Kueshana,
author of "The Ultimate Frontier," in an article he wrote in 1966, Vailixi
were first developed in Atlantis 20,000 years ago, and the most common ones
are "saucer shaped of generally trapezoidal cross- section with three
hemispherical engine pods on the underside." "They use a mechanical
antigravity device driven by engines developing approximately 80,000 horse
power." The Ramayana, Mahabarata and other texts speak of the hideous war
that took place, some ten or twelve thousand years ago between Atlantis and
Rama using weapons of destruction that could not be imagined by readers until
the second half of this century.
The ancient Mahabharata, one of the sources on Vimanas, goes on to tell
the awesome destructiveness of the war: "...(the weapon was) a single
projectile charged with all the power of the Universe. An incandescent
column of smoke and flame as bright as the thousand suns rose in all its
splendour... An iron thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death, which
reduced to ashes the entire race of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas.... the
corpses were so burned as to be unrecognizable. The hair and nails fell out;
pottery broke without apparent cause, and the birds turned white.... after a
few hours all foodstuffs were infected.... to escape from this fire, the
soldiers threw themselves in streams to wash themselves and their
equipment..." It would seem that the Mahabharata is describing an atomic war!
References like this one are not isolated; but battles, using a fantastic
array of weapons and aerial vehicles are common in all the epic Indian books.
One even describes a Vimana-Vailix battle on the Moon! The above section very
accurately describes what an atomic explosion would look like and the effects
of the radioactivity on the population. Jumping into water is the only
respite.
When the Rishi City of Mohenjodaro was excavated by archaeologists in the
last century, they found skeletons just lying in the streets, some of them
holding hands, as if some great doom had suddenly overtaken them. These
skeletons are among the most radioactive ever found, on a par with those found
at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Ancient cities whose brick and stonewalls have
literally been vitrified, that is-fused together, can be found in India,
Ireland, Scotland, France, Turkey and other places. There is no logical
explanation for the vitrification of stone forts and cities, except from an
atomic blast.
Futhermore, at Mohenjo-Daro, a well planned city laid on a grid, with a
plumbing system superior to those used in Pakistan and India today, the
streets were littered with "black lumps of glass." These globs of glass were
discovered to be clay pots that had melted under intense heat! With the
cataclysmic sinking of Atlantis and the wiping out of Rama with atomic
weapons, the world collapsed into a "stone age" of sorts, and modern history
picks up a few thousand years later Yet, it would seem that not all the
Vimanas and Vailixi of Rama and Atlantis were gone. Built to last for
thousands of years, many of them would still be in use, as evidenced by
Ashoka's "Nine Unknown Men" and the Lhasa manuscript.
That secret societies or "Brotherhoods" of exceptional, "enlightened"
human beings would have preserved these inventions and the knowledge of
science, history, etc., does not seem surprising. Many well known historical
personages including Jesus, Buddah, Lao Tzu, Confucious, Krishna, Zoroaster,
Mahavira, Quetzalcoatl, Akhenaton, Moses, and more recent inventors and of
course many other people who will probably remain anonymous, were probably
members of such a secret organization. It is interesting to note that when
Alexander the Great invaded India more than two thousand years ago, his
historians chronicled that at one point they were attacked by "flying,fiery
shields" that dove at his army and frightened the cavalry. These "flying
saucers" did not use any atomic bombs or beam weapons on Alexander's army
however, perhaps out of benevolence, and Alexander went on to conquer India.
It has been suggested by many writers that these "Brotherhoods" keep some of
their Vimanas and Vailixi in secret caverns in Tibet or some other place is
Central Asia, and the Lop Nor Desert in western China//another cue for invasion of Tibet ? is known to be the
centre of a great UFO mystery. Perhaps it is here that many of the airships
are still kept, in underground bases much as the Americans, British and
Soviets have built around the world in the past few decades. Still, not all
UFO activity can be accounted for by old Vimanas making trips to the Moon for
some reason.
Undoubtedly, some are from the Military Governments of the world, and
possibly even from other planets. Of course, many UFO sightings are "swamp,
gas, clouds, hoaxes, and hallucinations, while there is considerable evidence
that many UFO sightings, especially "kidnappings" and the like, are the
result of what is generally called "telepathic hypnosis."
....

http://www.sacred-te...om/ufo/aiac.htm

ramana, by mentioning the Nazi link it looks like you stirred up a hornets nest.

Acharya, ramana .. this is way too important and everyone needs to get up to speed on this. I found the text of this interview while casually surfing a few Nazi sites hoping to find some Tibetan links. Everyone needs to get upto speed on this, because this is a bombshell.

Apparently the Nazis rumoredly created a secret impenetrable base in Newschwabenland or somewhere near the poles (south) before giving up a rump Germany to allied forces and left with 3 million of elite of Imperial Germany to the new base. Whether this is urban legend or fact .. no one can say for sure.

What specifically in the Nazi links did compel western researchers to study 2012 as end of time is getting clearer though through below text, plz pay particular attention to the text marked between red alerts. I am not highlighting the text this time.


Secret Bases of the German Empire:
World Plan and Liberation Strike

By Kawi Schneider, Cologne, 8th of October 2002

Background: During the Second World War, Adolf Hitler and the SS Generals Dr. Hans Kammler, Heinrich Himmler and Martin Bormann founded a top secret global Imperial German state in a net of military bases to which about 3 Million elite people, orphans and troops as well as high technology such as the Wunderwaffen were removed in order to liberate occupied rump Germany and conquer the world according to a 60-years-plan.

Internet search for: Neu Berlin, Neu-Schwabenland, Antarctica Base 211, Haunebu II, Nazi UFOs (beam cannon antigravitation fighter discs)


Interview with a long standing expert on the secret Imperial German military bases, Herr Ernst Wahrnt

Kawi: Good morning, Herr Wahrnt! When did you first understand that there are secret UFO reservations of the Third Reich?

Wahrnt: Why do you call them "reservations"? They are simply called "the bases". Already as early as 1957, I met an old gentleman who told me his brother was working in Neu-Schwabenland, Antarctica. They had been in direct contact only until 1952, however.

Kawi: So you had an indirect sort of communication with "the bases" at that time. Was this your only source of knowledge about this?

Wahrnt: No, I met Imperial German citizens myself only little later, who commute between the bases and the Federal Republic of Germany. Since then, I have had meetings with them every now and then.

Kawi: When was the last time? What are they doing here? Which passports do they have?

Wahrnt: Just 6 months ago. They watch the state of affairs here with us, our psychic condition, how our cities develop, the social atmosphere, all of what you can only do by direct personal observation. They have ordinary Federal German documents, because they don't out themselves as who they really are. Whenever they return home to the bases, they give in depth reports there, because this is the purpose of their excursions.

Kawi: How long do they intend do just passively watch the horror here? Why do they hardly ever tell anyone who they really are?

Wahrnt: Because they are not in need of it at all! They are so far superior to the affairs of our world in terms of ethics, spirit as well as military strength! On the other hand, they don't really just watch our world passively. alert Let me remind you of what Adolf Hitler explains on the pages 684 to 689 in his book Mein Kampf about the strategy after the Second World War: The lost territories must be considered as of secondary ranking, in order to concentrate all resources etc. on the development and the strengthening of the "Reststaat", the remaining state territory, in order "to forge the sword of the liberation of the lost territories", as he puts it. The Liberation Strike has to be absolutely perfect, as he says, even if it is possible to do the strike only 50 years later.

Kawi: I have actually read this passage and I understand he is talking here about the territorial losses of Germany in the First World War!

Wahrnt: No, some parts of the passage are prophetical and refer indeed to the modern German "rest state" of our time, the bases, and the planned liberation strike which will liberate us Federal Germans and the Austrians.

Kawi: "Liberate"? I guess everyone will just shout "Nazis fuc* off", horrifying the Imperial German troops so that they will quickly disappear in the bases again.

Wahrnt: Okay, that is why the liberation strike is planned to coincide with biblical time, i. E. the final time or the "last days", meaning the final time of the rule of the enemy, which will open the eyes of the people.

Of course you are right, that the enemy wish us to hate and to throw stones on our liberators. The daily propaganda against the Third Reich everywhere is covertly targeting our contemporary Imperial Germans! But because their very existence is absolutely taboo, the hate propaganda is directed against the historical German Empire of until 1945, as it is officially known. If the real target were not the contemporary Imperial Germans, all this hate propaganda would just be absurd - there is no propaganda against Stalin (...), no, just against the Third Reich, everyday and everywhere!

Kawi: Aren't you afraid breaking this taboo?

Wahrnt: Well - in this very chair where you are sitting at the moment, a prominent secret service head was sitting years ago, and I'll never forget him saying: "Sir, the secret Germany is so secret, that it absolutely may not exist in the consciousness of the masses!" Today, however, most people in the world are in such a poor mental condition, that they just are not able to understand anything about the bases, even if you talk about them most carefully and patiently.

End alert

Kawi: Did you publish about the subject?

Wahrnt: No, but friends did, you probably know the brochures of Otto Bergmann, to which others and myself contributed giving information to offer a good and comprehensive documentation.

Kawi: So when will the world's big change for the better come at last? The crisis of the old world is obviously intensifying.

Wahrnt: Exactly, this will even accelerate so much that everything can happen already in the year 2003. Already when I first learned about it, in 1957, the Imperial Germans told me it will be, or at least begin, in 2003, and ever since I tell the people we had to hold out the enemies' terror in Germany until 2003, until we would be liberated from outside.

Kawi: As far as I know from cyclical time theories, the change is rather due in 2004 or 2005. Moreover, there are prophecies of a war with giant Russian invasion of Germany. Would the Imperial Germans allow this to happen or would they rather prevent it?

Wahrnt: I can only say, they can prevent it, if they want to, an that is what I suppose will happen actually. Think of the innumerable wildfires that have occurred in the USA and in Russia, most of which were the consequences of ammunition destruction strikes of the Imperial Germans, as described already by Bergmann in the 80ies.

(Recently, in another talk Herr Wahrnt said, on the day of the "Imperial German air victory against the Columbia", on a question about the wildfires in Australia: "The weather war of Imperial Germany against the enemy is escalating mainly in Australia now, which is considered as one of her "big four" enemy states beside GB, the USA and Israel at present. In the near future, a time will come when the USA will not be able to even count the tornados any more that will devastate the country!")

Kawi: But the prophecies are so massive, that I tend to expect the Russian invasion all the same, also because it is already being prepared most energetically.

Wahrnt: Well, since 1945, the allies have always been preparing something against us most energetically, but the Imperial Germans never failed to protect us! Remember the Challenger in 1986 which carried the so-called green box, meaning a load of chemical weapons that was meant to contaminate either Germany or Neu-Schwabenland, I don't know it exactly any more. The Russian invasion here could only happen if it were an aspect of the World Plan and I'm sorry I can't tell whether or not it is, at the moment.

Kawi: What will the Liberation Strike be like?

Wahrnt: For example, all wireless stations will be superimposed by Imperial German transmissions in a Blitz action by giant mother ships hovering already invisibly over many cities in a height of 33 km. The invisibility technology works on an electromagnetic basis today, it doesn't take artificial fog as in the beginnings. In the worst time of crisis in the Endzeit there will be so much violence, caused by the vile character of the dying system of the enemy, that there will be so many dead bodies that it will be difficult to bury them. But when, in the end, our liberators will restore law and order, "every conference chairman in the world will be a German", as Colonel Gaddafi put it in his book. There will be a World Law Court, because the Nuremberg trials will fully have to be revised. Moreover, all crimes of the enemy have been recorded in the bases most meticulously, and all the guilty ones, if still alive, will be brought to justice. Nothing at all will be left over of multicultural society, for example, because this is a crime against all the peoples involved.

Kawi: Is this the reason why the other side is reinforcing their propaganda in favour of mix-racism and immigration at the moment?

Wahrnt: Exactly, they have a different way of logical thinking as we Germans have! They understand that their end is coming, but instead of using the rest of their time for reparations,
as we would do it in their place, they say: Now we try and take as many others as possible with us to hell. But in the end, the Imperial Germans will sweep the enemy away with the Iron Broom. And foreigners will be deported back to their home countries (...), of course.

Kawi: But what if they have German documents?

Wahrnt: There are none here! The "Federal Republic of Germany" was a fake state from the very beginning, run by Anti-German military governments of collaborators, trying to damage the German people systematically ever since.

Kawi: Another expert told me, Hitler had moved to the bases in the war while a double represented him in Berlin.

Wahrnt: Of course, you can compare this with Saddam Hussein today, who even has 25 doubles. Well done!

Kawi: Do you know how old Hitler was - or whether he is still alive, may be in the inner earth, because there aging is said to be much slower than here.

Wahrnt: No comment.

Kawi: Really no comment, but some subjunctive?!

Wahrnt (silently after al long pause): It is possible, that he will appear as a very old, but still vigorous man, in order to publicly announce his final victory himself.

Kawi: What about Martin Bormann? Officially, he died as an old spy of, and in, the Soviet Union. Another story tells he was the chief of the northern removal route to the bases in 1945.

Wahrnt: Of course he was! Remember also Rudolf He�, those pictures of an old double sitting in a cell.

Kawi: You said earlier, that the Imperial Germans could have made their strike already 10, 20 or 30 years back. Already in 1945, they had brand new bombers, which they hadn't used any more, even the nuclear bomb. Why didn't they win the war already in 1945?

Wahrnt: They were strong enough to win 30 years back, but not yet in 1945. Then they said:
The bases are strong, we want to stop the war now, because when we continue to fight the occupiers there will be tens of millions of more casualties. We prefer to further improve the bases with the right technology and the Wunderwaffen and to prepare the liberation strike in a way that it will really succeed and really defeat the enemy.

Kawi: What do the Imperial Germans tell about the extraterrestrians?

Wahrnt: They are terrestrian and extraterrestrian themselves. "Aliens" etc. is a code for the Imperial Germans who have the sovereignty over space, the moon and Mars. There are no other "Aliens" or "Extraterrestrians"!

Kawi: How many Imperial Germans are living in the bases?

Wahrnt: 7 million meanwhile.

Kawi: I heard there are 7 million troops alone.

Wahrnt: No. The bases are like a giant clockwork, everyone, cook or captain, mother or engineer, are working for the common case, like the troops do.

Kawi: What will they do with our elites who have propagated all the time the stories of German guilt of war etc., and multicultural society?

Wahrnt: They are most horrible gangsters, like people who kill father and mother, hence they have no right to exist. If they should be among the survivors of the beginning crisis, they will be beheaded.

Source: http://www.unglaublichkeiten.com

Now here is the text with messy highlighting..

this was eye opening. thanks Raju.

also in relation to post 176 etc, here is how Hanuman observed Pushpaka when he went to Lanka:

I am only a margadarsi. One still has to travel the marg as you are doing.


Bodhi, That Gurjdeiff is very important. Try ot sepnd some time reading up on him.

That Childress guy is inot this vimana stuff and has been writing for quite some time. He is the author of the Lost Cities series of books.

One problem with that Bharadwaja Vimanika Shastra of Mr G. Josyer is that it is not a litteral translation of something that exists. Its Koranic in origin! Means it was written by inspiration. So there are doubts. However there was an AIAA conf in Bangalore in 1988 which came out later that had sketches based on this.
The guy drew up sketches of his interpretation of the stanzas and also a classificatin of different vimanas.


I have been following that stuff before Internet.

BTw look at page 58 of this pdf for exact title of paper:

http://iaaweb.org/ia...ies/history.pdf


Abstract:

Try this geocities site:

http://www.light1998...nas/Vimanas.htm

the western research on 2012 now seems increasingly and totally based around a fear that forces antagonistic to west will use the Mayan calender's end-time prophecy to strike against what people in the non-western and non-neocon/bilderberg/Rothschild areas of influence perceive as evil forces...which the west especially US fears that it will be the target. The readymade availablity of such prophecy also means that anti-Rockefeller/Bilderberg forces will not have to conduct psy-ops through media to convince people of their agenda. They have readymade psy-ops material given to them by Mayans. This now increasingly seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Needless to say, both sides must be preparing. One to attack and the other to counter-attack and defend if possible.


Kawi Schneider who printed that interview aboe and Christian Saal are perhaps the most prolithic writers concerning Neuschwabenland on the internet. People cite them for both good and bad. In fact, you need days to go through their articles posted on that site, www.unglaublichkeiten.info

Raju,

We need a seperate thread for Vimana shastra.

yes, and some more research needs to go into this newschwabenland.

Who will do the honors?

Viren please help.

NAZI BASES IN ANTARCTICA


The historical facts are evident. Beginning in 1838, long before the end of the Second World War, the Nazi's commenced to send out numerous exploratory missions to the Queen Maud region of Antarctica. A steady stream of expeditions were reportedly sent out from [at the time] white supremacist South Africa. Over 230,000 square miles of the frozen continent were mapped from the air, and the Germans discovered vast regions that were surprisingly free of ice, as well as warm water lakes and cave inlets. One vast ice cave within the glacier was reportedly found to extend 30 miles to a large hot-water geothermal lake deep below. Various scientific teams were moved in to the area, including hunters, trappers, collectors and zoologists, botanists, agriculturists, plant specialists, mycologists, parasitologists, marine biologists, ornithologists, and many others. Numerous divisions of the German government were involved in the top secret project.

This is where the mainstream historians leave off, as only revisionist historians will dare consider the implications of the rest of the story...

After all the data was gathered, deep underground construction teams came pouring into the renamed "Neu-Schwabenland". They came on cargo ships, military transport ships, and submarines. The cargo ships coming from South Africa were protected by a host of killer-submarines and military ships. This might explain the intense Nazi war efforts in North and South Africa. Any ship that even came close to the shipping routes from South Africa to Antarctica were destroyed by German U-boats to protect the secret. After all the goods were brought, the VIPs and scientists started to show up with a compliment of ULTRA, a highly specialized Nazi SS team like our MJ-12. ULTRA has always been in control of Antarctica. As for Neu Schwabenland, the construction and secret projects in Antarctica continued throughout the entire course of the war.

Just before the end of the WWII, two German provision U-boats, U-530 and U-977, were launched from a port on the Baltic Sea. Reportedly they took with them members of the antigravity-disk research and development teams [ULTRA], and the LAST of the most vital disc components [much of this technology and hardware had been transported to the base during the course of the war]. This included the notes and drawings for the latest saucer or aerial disk designs, and designs for the gigantic underground complexes and living accommodations based on the remarkable underground factories of Nordhausen in the Harz Mountains. The two U-boats duly reached the new land of Neu-Schwabenland where they unloaded everything. When they arrived in Argentina several months later, their crews were captured. It seems as if they were either counting on the formerly German-friendly Argentineans to allow them access, or it could have been that they intentionally allowed themselves to be discovered for misinformation purposes, i.e. -- "yes... we are the last two renegade German subs. We've been trying to hold out but...oops, you caught us... the war's finally over!"

The crews of these U-Boats were of course interrogated by U.S. Intelligence agents who had suspected the existence of the Antarctic base. Whatever the Nazi soldiers tried to tell them, apparently the Americans were not convinced... especially considering the subsequent and ill-fated U.S. Navy backed military actions against the Nazi's "Last Battalion" in Antarctica in later years under Admiral Richard E. Byrd, who arrived at Antarctica with an entire military armada and provisions to last 6 month. However the the entire expedition lasted only 8 weeks, with only approximately three weeks of actual full-scale Antarctic operations.

The Antarcticans were desperate following the war, and knew that a confrontation was imminent. Much effort was put into developing secret weapons projects to defend their new underground Empire, which no doubt was constructed with the 'help' of a large number of expendable slave laborers transported from the concentration camps of Europe.

The major base-city of Antarctica became known as the NEW BERLIN, or by the code-named "Base-211"

The actual beginnings of German interest in the polar regions may date back BEFORE the earliest U.S. Navy polar expeditions. For instance one segment of NOVA related that the remains of Capt. Charles Hall of the ill-fated POLARIS expedition, one of the first American ventures to the North Pole, were discovered in an ice grave by a subsequent polar expedition. It seemed that when the body was examined it was found to contain poison. It was also discovered by searching the records that the cook [who would be in the perfect position to administer poison] and the first mate on the Polaris expedition were German Occultist spies! Remember that the German secret societies of Bavaria, which had helped to precipitate the first and second world wars, date back to ancient times when -- following the occupation of Egypt -- the [un]'Holy Roman Empire' military forces based in Germany, the seat of government for the HO.R.E, brought back from Egypt the black Gnostic "serpent cults" which later gave rise to the Bavarian Illuminati, the Bavarian Thule Society and a host of other lesser known satanic racist cults which gravitated around these. Could the occultist spies who sabotaged the POLARIS expedition have been attempting to protect a secret hidden deep within the polar regions? Could this secret have had something to do with an ancient collaboration between Bavarian satanic cults and reptilian-based aliens?

A German Polar researcher who we will identify only as 'Stefan' reveals that the 'historical' beginnings of German interest and research into the Antarctic or South Polar region itself began in 1873 when Sir Eduard Dallman on behalf of the newly founded German Society of Polar Research discovered new Antarctic routes with his ship 'GRONLAND'.

"...Dallman discovered the "Kaiser-Wilhelm-Inseln" at the western entrance of the Biskmarkstrasse along the Biscoue Islands. Exploring the polar regions, the Germans were already at this time quite innovative, for the 'GRONLAND' was the first steamship to see the Antarctic ice at all.

"Within the next 60 years 2 further expeditional thrusts took place, and two complete expeditions were fulfilled, namely 1910 under Wilhem Filchner with his ship 'DEUTSCHLAND'; and 1925 with the special designed polar expedition ship, the 'METEOR' under the command of Dr. Albert Merz.

"During the recent years before WWII the Germans claimed to hegemony about parts of Antarctica and the wish to possess [their] own base grew stronger. At this time the Antarctic was not safe due to international treaties like today and a pragmatic proof of Germany's claim by a single strike to the south pole on the eve of the war seemed to be the best option. Hitler himself was anxious for a foothold in the Antarctic and such a claim could be used pretty well for the Nationalsocialistic propaganda and a further demonstration of the uprising "Superpower Germany". On the other side a new provocation of the Allies had still to be avoided for some time. Germany was -- at this time -- not completely prepared for the coming war.

"As a matter of fact, the idea of a semi-civilian expedition in cooperation with the German national airline company, the 'LUFTHANSA' grew up. A civilian covered expedition with truly military and strategical background, a highly political charged balancing act. The command on this strike was given to the polar-experienced Captain Alfred Ritscher, who had already led some expeditions to the North Pole and proved courage and skill ness in critical situations. The selected ship was the 'MS SCHWABENLAND, a German aircraft carrier used since 1934 for transatlantic mail delivery by special flight boats, the famous 'Dornier Wale'. These 'Wales' were mounted on steam catapults on the deck of the ship and could be started and refueled this way easily. This circumstance should proof very well during the expedition.

"The 'SCHWABENLAND' was prepared for the expedition on Hamburg's shipyards, which cost the huge amount of 1 Million Reichsmark, nearly a third of the complete expedition budget.

contd..

"Meanwhile, the crew was prepared and scheduled by the German Society of Polar Research precisely. This society also made the sensational step to invite Richard E. Byrd, the most famous American Antarctic researcher. On the mid of November 1938 he arrived in Hamburg and showed the crew and a clearly selected publicity of 84 persons his new Antarctic documentation movie in the Urania of Hamburg. Byrd, who had flown across the south pole as the first human in 1929, was already at this time a living legend, a national hero to the Americans and most of the polar researchers. In 1938 he still was civilian. This invitation to the Germans could have been a typical irony of history, for nearly ten years later exactly this Richard E. Byrd -- then in the rank as US NAVY admiral -- got the instruction to destroy the secret German Antarctic base 211. To do this, he was given the command of the biggest military force on the Antarctic ice ever seen, 13 ships and nearly 4000 men staff. That mysterious operation which is said to have ended in a catastrophically failure.

"The 'NEUSCHWABENLAND' left the port of Hamburg on December 17th 1938 heading to the Antarctic on a precisely planned and determined route and reached the ice on January 19th 1939 at 4� 15� W and 69� 10�S. The following weeks on 15 flights the 'PASSAT' and the 'BOREAS' flew across some 600.000 square kilometers and made with their special designed German "Zeiss Reihenmessbildkameras RMK 38" more than 11.000 pictures of the area. The old Norwegian maps from 1931 on these areas were renewed, for they proved to be fake. [Could not be different, because the Norwegian expeditions before did never go so deep into the ice from the used Northern landing point]. Nearly one fifth of the whole Antarctic area was scanned this way, thus documented for the first time and simultaneous claimed to be German territory. To stress this claim on the outside too, the two planes dismissed several thousands of drop-flags, special metal poles with expedition's insignia on them, the 'swastika'. The whole territory now got the still valid name: 'NEUSCHWABENLAND', referring to a south German region [which is actually not far from me here].

"Interestingly, the Expedition seemed to have discovered ice-free areas with even lakes and small signs of vegetation in the mid of the Antarctic. The geologists said that this phenomenon was due hot sources in the ground. Concurrent, the landings points where marked with "prick-flags".

"Notes: Some newer historians reduce the discovered area to an amount of 325.000 square kilometers. Do not trust these numbers, I have copies of the original flight maps here, revealing the number 600.000 in ancient letters. What could be the reason to reduce this number?

"Most parts of 'NEUSCHWABENLAND' were renamed according to the Antarctic treaty in 1957. Look out for "QUEEN MAUD LAND"., "PRINCESS MARTHA COAST", "PRINCESS ASTRID COAST". On the older maps you will still find the original names. Yet, until today still many of the mountains in the northern Antarctic area carry German names like: "M_HLIG-HOFFMAN-MOUNTAINS", "WOHLTAT-MOUNTAINS", etc. These names were given according to leading Berlin bureaucrats who enabled with their policy the expedition's targets.

"In the mid of February, the 'SCHWABENLAND' again left the Antarctic. It took two months back to Hamburg and Ritscher carefully used this time to organize the results, maps and photos. Captain Ritscher surprised by the results of the flights, immediately planned after the arrival a second, fully civilian, expedition in use of lighter airplanes with skids. Facing the beginning of WWII, these civilian (!) plans were said to be given up somewhere on October 1939.

"Yet, what about the military and strategic option achieved by this strike? Was it wasted resources so far? Today, all historians agree in the fact that WWII was not accidentally started but pretty well planned from the early 30's and even before. At least since 1933 (incidentally the same year when one of the first 'official' treaties between the Greys and Bavarian Intelligence was initiated -- no doubt with more than a little help from the secret societies operating there - Branton) the whole German dictatorship tried to gain war fitness within a decade or earlier. In all -- and I really mean all -- aspects of life: military, 'civilian', economic, social, private, resourcing, engineering, foreign policy, and so on, in all aspects the Germans were put straight on their way to war more or less obviously. Pointing to this only aim, the Nationalsocialists abused the typical kind of German correctness and missing sense for rebellious scrutinizing. Nothing was left to chance! And this same method was used in the Antarctic issue, which in my eyes NEVER ended with Ritscher's return [in] 1938 but went on during the WWII.

"Unfortunately, at this point all valid information has vanished. What is left is a scattered puzzle of hints, testimonies and reports which go up to the fifties and which we partially can not verify anymore. So IF the Germans WERE able to build up an Antarctic [underground] base on the results of Ritscher's expedition, this would be one of the really best covered secrets in German history. No question, German engineers HAD the knowledge to construct something like that as the huge underground establishments of the Nordhausen complex in the Harz as well as Kahla complex at Thuumlringen and many more prove. Does this remind you Americans of something??? The pattern somehow is the same: A lying government / dictatorship and a frightened, blind-held folks willing to obey and believe in what they are fed up with...[see Roswell].

"So, what we did in Part II ... was the attempt to restructure chronically those parts of the puzzle we could gather within some months of research on this topic. Nobody can say that the following really happened, so you might see it as speculation first. Yet, we HAVE tremendous parallels on several sources from which we can only say this one thing 100%ly: THEY COULD NOT HAVE KNOWN OF EACH OTHER!

"What follows now is the attempt of a chronological collection of the events and their conclusions as far as they are known to us today. They all lead to the establishing of the Antarctic base 211 at the end of war by means of German submarines and flying saucers and to the [failed ?] attempt to destroy it by the US Navy in 1947.

Note: The following are brief descriptions or synopsis' of information and documentation which 'Stefan' has in his possession, yet which we will not quote in their entirety here. - Branton):

"-- Evaluation of the anti-gravity propulsion of a nearly 100% functional flying saucer going down in the 'Schwarzwald' in the summer 1936.

"-- Alternative hypothesis: Self-developing this propulsion by experiments of German scientists basing on Viktor Schauberger's anti-gravity experiments.

"-- First unmanned flights with the new [re-]built propulsion. A very special section of the "Reichsluftfahrtbehoumlrde" gets the project under its control with the aim to build up anti-gravital fighters and troop-carriers. The project's name is 'HANEBBU' [some sources also call it the 'VRIL' project]. The prototypes are numbered in ascending order. The project has many setbacks in the first years due to the massive electro-magnetic disturbances and their interaction with conventional electric components. Although the propulsion can be handled and used principally, it seems to be nearly impossible to "drive or fly" these prototypes in sharper angels than 90�, thus not usable as fighters. Additionally normal navigation systems referring somehow to magnetic fields were completely useless and special magnetic independent navigation instrumentation designed, the celestial guidance system: "Meisterkompass" and "Peiltochterkompass".

"-- Further secret German expeditions to 'NEUSCHWABENLAND'. As landing points, there could have been used two of the three marked landing bays north-west of the "HLIG-HOFFMAN MOUNTAINS" close to 3� W and 70� S. Those were already documented as 'landing bays' by Ritscher. "-- Starting the assemblage of the Antarctic base 211. Simultaneously a second secret base is build up on a high plateau in the South American Andes. [Argentina ?]

"-- Necessary items for the erection of the bases are continuously transported on submarines. Note: German submarine commanders are highly experienced in the Arctic waters due to the need of delivery of material and people to Germany's northern Arctic bases and civilian research stations. In fact at least 20 well documented operations have taken place along the Arctic until 1945 by means of these submarines. Some of these operations, especially the later ones, had to be carried out under extreme conditions and with the permanent threat of contact with the enemy. Besides, on their way to the south pole, researchers discovered somewhat like a straight deep submarine trench fitting pretty well for the necessary transportation's.

"-- The 'HANNEBU' series has left the stadium of prototypes and brought up to 19-25 ships in 2 [or even 3] sizes. "HANEBU I" is a small vessel, "HANNEBU II" a more sophisticated, larger one. Some reports even hint at "HANNEBU III", which was designed as a mother ship. If this third type has become reality, there existed only one single ship. So, the overall transport capacities are still very limited, due to a quite small diameter of the disks. Additionally production of ships gets more and more difficult, because the Allies managed to cut of Germany's raw materials more and more. Yet 'HANNEBUs' managed to disturb some allied bomber raids over Germany. Note: Every allied bomber pilot in the [latter] years of the war knew the mysterious threat of the so called "foe-fighters" appearing and vanishing with incredible speed and causing bright-orange light phenomenon's and paroxysmal instrumentation failures on all electric and magnetic parts of the bombers. In no source a direct attack by these "foe-fighters" is mentioned, they seem to play a completely defensive role on the late air war over Germany.

(Note: see the movie, THE BATTLE OF THE BULGE, which correctly implies that the Germans were on the verge of developing a whole range of incredible new aerial weapons, and needed to prolong the war for a few more months in order to get their new jets, etc., into production, and the Battle of the Bulge was a part of this plan. However just as these new weapons were about to go into mass production the German military failed to fully succeed in their battle plans to buy more time and prolong the war for a few more months, and the Allied invasion of Germany began. That particular victory may have been closer than most of us would dare to believe. If the 'Nazis/Antarcticans' are planning for another planetary takeover, then this time they may have an alien force working with them. Could the abductions and implantation's by 'aliens' be a joint CIA-Nazi-Alien project to implement electronic mind control programming on millions of people throughout the nations in preparation for the attempted implimentation of an electronically-controlled New World Order dictatorship? - Branton)

"-- The enormous pressure of the Allies force the Germans to give up the big secret underground facilities in Eastern Germany. The Allies themselves seem to be pretty well informed on these facilities and overall eager to capture them. The Germans flee and leave back much material of the 'HANNEBU' project. Their attempt to rebuild the construction zones in the middle of Germany fails. The war is nearly over. "Quotations: "... I have seen enough of their designs and production plans to realize that if they [the Germans] had managed to prolong the war some months longer, we would have been confronted with a set of entirely new and deadly developments in air warfare.

" -- Sir Roy Feddon, chief of the technical mission to Germany for the Ministry for Aircraft Production in 1945. "When WWII ended, the Germans had several radical types of aircraft and guided missiles under development. The majority were in the most preliminary stages, but they were the only known craft that could even approach the performance of objects reported to UFO observers...

" -- Captain Edward J. Ruppelt Chief of the US Air Force Project 'Bluebook' on 1956. "Notes:
"-- A last convoy of submarine vessels leaves German Harbors with direction to Antarctica and Andes. It is the overall successful attempt to escape the Allies' clutches. Among this last convoy there are the U 530 [Captain Otte Wehrmut] and the U977m [Captain Heinz Schaumlffer].

"-- The last visual contact with U977 was on April 26th at Christiansund. Schaumlffer's crew did not reveal anything about the submarine's destination or load. The vessel vanishes now for nearly 4 months, before the crew delivers a completely empty vessel to Argentinian Officials.

"-- In the same way, leading NS-Officials and technicals are evacuated from Berlin/Potsdam with the HANEBU fleet heading to the meanwhile COMPLETED (?) base 211. The overall transport capacities are quite limited.

"-- The submarine convoy achieves in the southern Atlantic Sea a sea victory over an Allied unit trying to stop it. This event is under wraps until today.

"-- Germany's capitulation [to the Allies] 17 August 1945.

"-- Some submarine crews who are not willing to live in the base or who perhaps can't be admitted to the base travel to Argentine and hand over their completely empty submarines.

"-- Among those are the documented cases of U530 and U977. High US NAVY officials immediately traveled down to Argentine and started severe
interrogations on the crew. Scgaumlffer repeatedly denied to have brought anyone or anything to anywhere. Although most of the crew are unwilling to tell what really happened, it is possible that these interrogations deliver important information about the location of the base.

(Note: One source has claimed that the information the interrogators received involved the escape of Adolph Hitler, Martin Borrman, Eva Braun and a major segment of the Nazi leadership -- not including those who were 'sacrificed' to the Nuremberg trials after the war -- to the South Polar base. This source claimed that these interrogations ultimately LED to the military action against the entrenched Nazi forces in Antarctica under the command of Navy Admiral Richard E. Byrd. - Branton). Yet for us, it remains very mysterious what the crew really did after the official capitulation on May 1945, for they confessed to have heard it soon on their own radio. When Schaumlffer came free, he immediately traveled back to Argentina to stay there with some fellows for the rest of his life.

"-- Until today more than 100 submarines of the German fleet are missing. Among those are many of the highly technological XXII class equipped with the so-called 'Walterschnorchel', a special designed and coated schnorkel enabling submarines in combination with their new developed engines to dive for many thousand miles. A 'trip' to the base without recognition becomes pretty possible with this technology.

"-- The US Navy tries to destroy the German base which did not surrender at the end of war. The operation is a disaster. The base remains functional, at least in parts.

"-- More than one year after the surrendering of U977 the US NAVY launches the biggest military operation in the Antarctic ice under the command of Admiral Richard E. Byrd. This is the operation 'HIGHJUMP', including 13 ships, 1 aircraft carrier, 2 seaplane tenders, 6 two-engined R4D transports and 4000 men. The only official statement on the purpose of such a task force is the need for testing "new material under the extreme Antarctic conditions." The force starts up at the established US bases in the "ROSS SEA", then it moves up the western Antarctic coast heading toward the Northern Antarctic coast, 'NEUSCHWABENLAND' and building up a bridgehead on January 27th 1947 somewhere west of it. Officially the expedition is a big success because it delivers many new facts of the use of military equipment under extreme conditions. "-- What is the need of such a big task force in this area? IF the expedition was such a success, WHY did Byrd already return to the US in February 1947? The operation was planned and equipped for a full 6-8 month duration. Did this expedition carry atomic warheads as some sources say?

(Note: although the entire expedition lasted some 8 weeks as suggested earlier, some sources claim that the actual battle -- once Byrd's forces had been divided into three main battle groups on the continent of Antarctica -- lasted only 3 weeks. - Branton)

"-- Byrd flew in 1947 at least one time in a right-twisted circle across the whole territory 'NEUSCHWABENLAND' heading from southwest over the 'RITSCHER HOCHLAND' and the eastern areas to the Pole. On his return to the US, Byrd reveals in an [often quoted but nowhere validated] interview with a reporter that it was "necessary for the USA to take defensive actions against enemy air fighters which come from the polar regions" and that in case of a new war, the USA would be attacked by fighters that are able to fly from one pole to the next with incredible speed". (Actually this quote HAS been validated, as will be seen later on in this document - Branton). Byrd has to face a secret cross-examination by US authorities. The US withdraws from the Antarctic for almost a decade.

(Note: Another claim which has been made by certain investigators, although the original source is difficult to track down, was that upon returning to the States Admiral Byrd went into a rage before the President and Joint Chiefs of Staff and in an almost demanding tone, strongly 'suggested' that Antarctica be turned into a thermonuclear test range. - Branton)

"-- World wide mass sightings of UFOs. In the late 70's it becomes more and more obvious that many of these sightings are identical in some technical details with the 'HANEBU' series. This can be stated especially for the so called 'ADAMSKI' UFOs in the early fifties which somehow look very terrestrial, nearly in "fashion style" of this decade and somehow very different from the rest of flat-bottomed crafts.

"-- The International Antarctic year with large civilian research projects starts. The result is the Antarctic treaty in which all participants agree to avoid any military operations this region in future times. This treaty ends somewhere in the year 2000.

Raju,

Remove all your posts in the last 3 pages and post it in the Vimana shastra thread.

Use judgement when you can post only links and not photo. Once the message is sent o not post the photo. Also text should only contain what is relavent. Rest should be inside the link.


We want to keep this 2012 only relevent to 2012 and India.

Make sure that you connect the dots and give analysis. Readers are Indians who are being exposed to the new material. Please give explanation profusely.

>>Make sure that you connect the dots and give analysis. Readers are Indians who are being exposed to the new material. Please give explanation profusely.

ok, photos will be kept at bare minimum. I too am learning and connecting dots on the go.

i am exposed to these texts but sometimes new dots are connecting only now and usually I want to distil the message before posting so that people have no problem in understanding new ideas. But feel that in this case one must make haste. Sometimes things end up jumbled, and there is difficulty for the viewer, but when clearer picture emerges we can chop and change as required.

New Schawabenland posts are relevant from angle of the post at top of page 7 of this thread. The whole area of Antartic has been made inaccessible to mango man/aam aadmi. And if access is given, it is highly regulated and controlled. We do not know for truth what is going on there except for sarkari version. Also note a post somewhere in page 6 of this thread about how the British captured a German U-Boat near the Indonesian straits with 33 tons of Mercury as cargo. Now Mercury in a U-Boat seems quite unneccessary...but then when we read through the text given above about Vimana Shastra and German Vril/Hanebu models, a fact comes to light that mercury is a most important source for propulsion of these technologies. Also after WW-II there were 60+ U-Boat's that went totally missing and were unaccounted for either in Germany or in allied books. Where did they go...to a new base ??

If there are entities who are going to use the *biblical/Mayan end of times prophecy* as a context and pretext to attack, we need to speculate where they arise from and which all areas are at maximum risk from them...this I state without wanting to sound or come across as alarmist ...why there was a detente all along ?? Why the stalemate and buildup until now by all parties...why didn't they act earlier ?

Secondly if indeed there are mediums that receive instructions .. do they also receive instructions to wait for a pre-destined date before launching any offensive action with the gained technology ?? Because it seems even after gaining technological superiority, there is a move towards pacifism in certain circles.. what is the key to that ? Are there a lot of vested interests with vast powers that want to wait until end of times prophecy to settle scores. This is a question that is now intriguing me even more

Very important in this context is Admiral Richard E. Byrd's claim after his expedition to North and South poles that most deadly potential threat to US would come from the poles. Will also post his missing diary contents here.

acharya, also follow your lead and explain profusely what is going on in post 194 and 195?

Ramana, I had read parts of his works - particularly charming style though complex content - and was immediately drawn to the importance of what he was trying to do. I learnt about some demi-secret soceities that go on to this day in USA to continue his work.

His biggest problem was his unfamiliarity with west, and he depended a lot upon the western pupil to propogate his thoughts - and due to this, largely and mostly his ideas got diverted, diluted and then completely hijacked. Well, those like him who looked eastwards also ended up like-wise, like Blavtsky.

But this is matter for some other thread probably.

I have something to add. Mrs IG created a mission in mid 1980s for India to be part of Antartica. She funded the setting up of Dakshin Gangotri (DG) station in Antartica and claimed a huge portion based on the fact that India is touched by the ocean in direct line of sight. Immediately the Antartica Treaty organization put all national claims on hold however claims made before the decision are still registered. The DG operation was carried out from DC Embassy as it was urgent. The Indian Institute of Oceanography had a role in that. In mid 90s there use to be a scientist who used to post on soc.culture.india news reports from there. India has new station Maitri as DG now obsolete. Can pursue this in another thread.

there is an unedited version of Admiral Byrd's press conference post his Antartic expedition lying around somewhere on the web. the version was ignored by then american media for obvious reasons of govt control...but was published by latin American esp Chilean media since some of its reporters were at spot. I had posted the entire stuff in BR..lack of archives meant the thread..nukkad? got nuked after 9 pages and consigned to some bin.



http://missilegate.c...lack.sun_38.jpg

Raju Move this post to the other thread Vimana. I will expand that thread to include other discussion too.

Ramana: Sorry a bit late - see there's already a thread. If you need more posts moved from here, let me know the post numbers. Acharay, Raju, feel free to pitch in.

acharya, that post is relevant to both topics. The Admiral is basically saying how future threats can come from unacknowledged sources. This fits in with 2012 scenario.

From post on top of this page, we know how mayan/hindu end of times prophecy can turn true as well considering threat from above sources.

According to John Major Jenkins, a leading independent researcher of ancient cosmology:

http://www.hinduwisd...ed_Concepts.htm

Very important article in light of article posted at top of Page 7. The article has 3 parts, the author is a civil servent in the British Ministry of Defence.

http://www.nexusmaga...SecretWar1.html

More importantly he also talks about 3 atomic explosions conducted by US in the areas surveyed by Admiral Byrd and were earlier made a target of British expeditions whose mandate was 'search & destroy'.

Another factor that comes out in the first part itself is the real secret behind British occupation of Falklands.

This location the M�hlig-Hoffmann Mountains mentioned in Part 1 & 3 of the nexusmagazine article is also mentioned in context to India's activities in Antartica. It seems the whole place is riddled with listening posts of various countries who still seem to have lingering suspiscions on whats going on, and thus the area is out of bounds for mango man.

this is the exact quote from part 3 of nexusmagazine article


http://dod.nic.in/pressbrief.htm


GSI = Geological Survey of India

http://dod.nic.in/pressbrief.htm


GSI = Geological Survey of India


--------------


There is a movie Alien vs Predator which is about Antartica.
Aliens have a hidden base under the Antartica which gets activated. Humans die mysteriously and Predator comes in kills the Alien.

It is a sci Fi movie but the imagination is used based on some facts. Those facts are not revealed.

Probably it is a diversion to demonify whoever is there.



>>It is a sci Fi movie but the imagination is used based on some facts. Those facts are not revealed.

there is a story of three European adventurers who heard of this legend while drinking at a bar. The U-boot base was built inside an island. A volcanic bubble formed within the island, right under a house owned by a German General named Winter. Secretly, tunneling equipment was brought in and three tunnels dug to connect the sea to the underground volcanic bubble. This bubble was glazed on the inside like glass. U-boat pens were made and a turntable so that U-boats could be spun around and pointed out again. Above the bubble, a stairway was built into the home of General Winter. The three, two Austrians and a Spaniard, found three old U-boats inside after following the tunnel in at low tide. They were all type Vll. They went aboard one and found old maps on the Argentinian coastline. The log indicated they had been in use AFTER THE WAR, until about 1950, with the knowledge (and possible assistance) of the US government!!

These articles are really no secret and if they sound familiar, well, they should. Steven Spielberg stole the idea for his fictional movie Raiders of the Lost Arc. He would never admit that this part is based upon fact.

http://www.villawinter.at.tt/

Raj, I recall an old Biggles book about U-Boats in a disused volcanic island with underwater approach. Don't recall the title now. Its so long ago .

ramana, this is the story and it is believed that the island hideout was a midway point for German officers headed out to bases far south, viz SA, Antartic. It is located in Island Fuerteventura which is part of the Canary Islands. To find the Villa Winter in Google Earth, one must note that the location tag of it is located in a totally wrong place. To find the place search for "Cofete" in Googleearth, or just try "Fuerteventura" and scroll down the southwestern coast of it.





Also quoting Wikipedia:

More translated from spanish:

"desde que supe de la existencia de esta casa y me entere de las "leyendas" que existiena a su alrededor, estuve interesado en visitarla. esta semana he estado en fuerteventura (soy de tenerife)y aproveche la ocasion para visitarla, pude habla con un se�or mayor que estaba en la zona, me conto que habia trabajado haciendo la cimentacion de la casa, que fue sobre el a�o 44 aprox. y que la casa tenia varios sotanos, algunos con paredes que sobrepasaban los 1500 cms de espesor, soy arquitecto tecnico, y se que solo un bunker requeriria tales espesores de hormig�n."

Translation: since the moment I knew of the house and got to know the "legends" which exist about it, I was interested in visiting it. This week I was in Fuerteventura (I am from Tenerife) and I used the chance to visit it, could talk with an elder man who was in the place, and he told me he had worked building the basement of the house, around the year 1944 aprox. and that the house had several cellars; some of them with walls with a thickness of more than 1500 cms; I am architect and I know that only a bunker would require such thickness...

Astrolife.com India�s leading astrology site highlights on Mayan�s prediction - End of Lifecycle by Dec 2012
November 09, 2007 Internet & New Media News



(PRLEAP.COM) Mumbai 9th November, 07: Astrolife.com India�s leading astrology site, known for its Astrology, Horoscope and Birth charts, enlightens on the prediction of Mayan calendar - The end of human life cycle by 23rd December, 2012. Astrolife.com reveals the prediction by the Mayan civilization and the literature The Mayans kept extremely detailed astronomical records and they followed the cycles of the planets and stars as they travel around in their orbits. Mayan Civilization � a mesoamerican civilization, which existed in the 10th millennium BC.

According to the Business Head of Astrolife.com Mr. Raj Rao, �Mayan people used more than one calendar - not just to keep track of dates but also to lead a life in harmony with the Creation. And we have been told about their most important calendar called Tzolkin (which started as far back as 2114 BC (4000 years ago) suddenly comes to an end on 21st Dec 2012. A global cataclysm is one possibility. On Astrolife.com we have provided this information in detail to all our members who are keen to know about the Mayan�s prediction �.

It is only recently that Meso-American Astrologers, Anthropologists and experts in cuneiform script have been able to reveal the secrets contained in the Mayan literature, most important of them are the Mayan Calendars. There are two calendars that is of interest, one is called the Tzolkin - which was used to forecast the day spiritually, and the Long Count - that was used to measure period over a span of thousands of years. The Tzolkin consists of 260 days divided into 20 Zodiac Signs (as against our 12 zodiac signs) and 13 Galactic Energies or Tones from the Sun. The 20 Zodiac Signs have a symbol but the Galactic Tones are simply referred by a number 1 to 13.

We are currently in the 4th cycle recorded by the Mayan. It started in 3114B.C. and lasts for 5126 years until 2012. With the end of the 4th cycle comes, the beginning of the 5th cycle. The Mayan believe that in the 5th cycle the ancient wisdom of the Maya will be rediscovered by the world and it will be a new dawn for mankind. Of all the dates put forth by prophets and cultures for a doomsday, this is one with an authentic almost supernatural feel to it.


About Astolife.com
Astrolife.com, an astrology portal from People Group offers the most exhaustive services in the entire gamut of the occult sciences. Astrolife is one of the leading Indian astrology site with maximum page views and members. It has tied up with leading astrologers worldwide including Marjorie Orr and Bejan Daruwala. Astrolife.com offers services in, Vedic Astrology, Astrology, Vastu, Feng Shui, Numerology, Tarot, I Ching, Bio Rhythm, Birth chart, and Horoscope, much more. And are currently powering astrology services for Shaadi.com, Shaadi Point and Fropper.com.

http://www.prleap.com/pr/102497/

I don't understand the importance of this Mayan revelation for one reason.

They themselves disappeared from earth many centuries ago, and did they predict that? Previous post says that they wanted to live in harmoney with creation. And they did not last long, so what were they trying to achieve?

I will give more credits to Hindu Rishis than to Mayans, because Hinduism still survives inspite of so many attacks!!!

Mayans are still here.

Don't know about 2012 and such. But I recall being told something that I thought might be tangentially relevant.
Some great-grand uncle of my dad was a Jyoshiar and apparently very good at it. But my dad always says how that ancestor could make accurate astrological predictions for total strangers' futures but did not foresee <a very drastic event concerning his daughter>. So perhaps this prediction stuff doesn't work for matters close to home?
I'm merely offering that maybe that might be the case with the Mayans too: that they were unable to see the sunset on their own civilisation as it was then, but nevertheless made predictions (accurate or otherwise, only time will tell) pertaining to the world or other people? Of course, none of this is anything concrete and I might just as well be wrong.


- Americas were settled. Christos always (try to) wipe out the inconvertibles when they plan to settle somewhere.
- India was colonised for the purposes of draining the land of its vast resources (like the numerous diamond mines). For which all they needed was to make Hindus permanently docile to christotyranny, which they tried via their brainwashing (which in their doublespeak they've dubbed 'education'). Of course, genocide in India also happened, but not to the same extent (percentage-wise) as in the Americas. It's because the christos decided to make their home in that 'new' continent for which they would not brook the existence of the heathens of 'Hamite lineage'.
In both settling and resource-based colonisation by christoterrorism there's exploitation of the real citizens as well (indentured services/bonded labour).

In any case, the native Americans of both continents did not lie down and play dead. It turns out that there's been 500 years of (indigenous) American resistance against the christian tyranny that emanated from foreign shores and fastened onto the Americas. ( http://www.dickshovel.com/500.html )
Western education, being christian-based, expressly doesn't teach students about this continuous resistance against the parasite of christoterrorism. But we can no longer afford to remain in ignorance of others' long-standing fight against christoislamism, as in most cases their struggles are rather like our own in many respects.
Just because a people have not been successful against the Terminator of christoislamiterrorism, doesn't mean their accomplishments can be dismissed off-hand. An ideology that is winning says nothing about the truth of it - it may just be cheating through disgusting underhand ways. And this is indeed the case here: the winners in the last 1.5+millennia have been terrorist ideologies that have brought forth little in terms of civilisation but have achieved an avalanche of destruction everywhere. They certainly can't be relied upon for any of their claims, in spite of their present 'upper hand'.

And I do too. But in my case, I must allow that that's possibly because I know more about our own Rishis than I do about Mayan revelations and such. (And perhaps some partiality on my side, which if so, I can't help.)

ADDED:
The above brought something to my mind again. Notice how Hindus always list Hinduism, (Buddhism,) christianity, islam when they talk about "religion"? We tend to know little to nothing about other religions. It's not our fault of course. Most people of other ancient natural religions don't know about Hinduism either, unless they found out about it from Hindus. Once again, this is because of christian education: trying to keep all other ways of life completely obscured (or if that's impossible, christo-education presents them as terrible anti-human religions which no one would then want to learn about anyway). It's especially single-minded in doing this to living (and reviving) religions. That way, when christians do finally kill all natural religions, they can pretend ours all never existed or were horrid otherwise.
It's in our best interests to learn about other natural religions and educate our community (Dharmics, or at least Hindus) - not only about their existence but all about these other traditions. That way, Hindus won't be conditioned to christoislamism (for instance, we will stop speaking in terms of monopolytheism or "invisible gawd" or "idolatry") and we will stop making our minds attuned to their poison. Christianism failed so spectacularly in winning voluntary converts in early centuries precisely because its very nonsense and inhumanity was thoroughly alien. Now - like bad sleazy tv programming increases our toleration of sleaziness on tv (e.g. 'reality' shows) - our unfortunate exposure to unnatural christoislami thought patterns has made us tolerant of its ideas and therefore susceptible/more amenable to conversion.

Mayans are still around. It is just their civilization that has fallen from glory. People of Guatemala, Mexico etc are of Mayan origin.

And they predicted their own downfall as well, I had put that up in a link a few pages back.

Maya Asura was a great astrologer and architect, and it has been found that there are striking similarities between temples of South India and those of Mexico, Guatemala and surrounding areas. I am guessing that most Naga origin temples/KOVILS in deep south India etc have Maya Asura's influence. But I guess being an Asura, his timetable was not given due relevance in Indian context as time progressed. In India Vishwakarma took more prominence than Maya Asura's work and calculations over the course of time. That is likely where the Hindu and Mayan ways seperated.

Guessing (or wild speculation) is not required on matters that are well-known.

The Kovils - which is the Thamizh name for Hindu temples - in TN were built by various Thamizh dynasties, and their construction has been according to Hindu scriptures called the Agama Shastras which are very precise in defining how a Hindu temple (and the Vigrahams in it) should be constructed. (From links below, I have learnt that North Indian temples are built as per Agama Scriptures also.)

If you will speculate, please confine it to your own city/town/village in India. I'll probably be too unable (though not unwilling) to comment or protest against that.

A book on Hindu Temples - it also talks about the science behind their construction:
http://www.integralb...erintemples.htm
http://www.integralb...om/powesam1.htm

ADDED:
More, from elsewhere:
http://www.himalayan...nity_Myth.shtml

http://www.bharatrek...com/history.htm
At the same link, it also says North Indian style temples are called "Nagara".
Its meaning does not appear to be related to "Naga" in any of the senses of Indian Naga: Nagas the snake-beings such as in Mahabharata (which may be connected to Naga as in Nagapambu/Naga serpents); or Naga as the name of the remnants of the Dharmic community in NE. But perhaps you still want to speculate along some 'Naga-Mayan' line and find that the Nagara (North Indian) temples therefore better fit your guessing? (I'm not encouraging this, by the way.)

Alright then I will differ with you sharply, if that is how you prefer. Naga civilization spread out right upto central asia, so I am pretty sure there are North Indian temples built upon same principles.

There is even a town in deep south called 'Nagar' Kovil. And 'Sarpa' Kaavu abound in deep south of India. The 'Nairs' of Kerala are believed to belong to be Naga vamshajar. The entire Nair history is replete with references to Naga, even their ornaments are related to Naga symbols.

'Naga Sundari' mare // beautiful nair women

So I take a firm stand here. No budging for anyone.

Again related to Raju's #213:
See also the above post (#214), where I took serious exception to totally unnecessary "guesses" from your end on the origin of Thamizh temple construction/architecture.


I ran a search on some combination like Agama Hindu Temple Construction Mayan, and the only page that I found which seemed to know what it was talking about when it came to Hindu temples - and which seemed to talk about some of the things you appear to have alluded to (but no mention of the "Thamizh Kovils are Maya Asura style") - was the following.

http://www.bnaiyer.c.../agamas-01.html
Title: Ancient Hindu Scriptures
A G A M A S - SCIENCE AND ART OF TEMPLE CONSTRUCTION
POORNA PRAGNA - Srinivasaprasad Kidambi

The entire excerpt is good to read for different reasons, but I've coloured the relevant portions blue.
The above does not appear to imply any appriopriation nor directionality. (Which would be unnecessary.) That is, it is conceivable that various ancient cultures across the world developed reasoning/sciences for constructing sacred temples independently, and that these sciences led to the some kind of similarities in structures because they were directed toward the same consistent understanding of God.

Raju, here's the only mention of Mayans on the above page - and it also mentions the name of divine architect Vishwakarma:
This last bit seems a bit far-out to me. Where's the evidence that it is indeed "Vishwakarma Mata" being practised in Africa and Europe and that Americas practise the equally Hindu-sounding "Maya Mata" (<- what is that - is that the Maya Asura you referred to above?) Where's the support that it is indeed Hindu Agama principles they are following? (For instance, have they got Hindu texts? Did they historically declare that they had Hindu texts?)
I've noticed that the local indigenous religion where I live constructs temples/shrines/sacred community spaces based on some principles and science of their own. But they're not based on Hindu Agamas, but their own. Just like the reasoning behind Greek temple construction/design was Greek.

It doesn't seem that any appropriation is intended on that page - rather it looks like it sees a greater interconnection between ancient religious cultures (that is, on the occasions where these other cultures are mentioned) - but I can't see that this world-wide temple construction is based on Hindu scriptures/is of Hindu origin the world over. There's certainly no evidence given for that.


Of course, none of this changes anything I said in the previous post: I still dispute your guess on the origin of TN's Kovils construction design.



On another matter, that link ( http://www.bnaiyer.c.../agamas-01.html )
mentions communist China's interest in occupying Tibet and their declaration to use translated Samskritam documents for their space programme. (I think I recall this matter being discussed somewhere on this thread?)

the link between Mayan and Hindu temples was produced by architect Dr V. Ganapati Sthapati. Plz search the links provided on page 1 or 2, it is a comprehensive link. He is the most prominent sthapati's alive today.

Please move these posts to the Maya thread.

Please post in appropriate threads.

THis is very critical now. I will start cleaning this thread. This thread is very important

One Hundred Tamils of the 20th Century

Ganapati Sthapati

Following his profitable conquest of Karnataka, Kerala and northern Sri Lanka, the Tamil King Rajaraja Chola found himself with a considerable budget surplus. With vast tracts of fertile farmland already under year-round irrigation, he decided to build the largest Siva temple in the worldhttp://www.tamilnation.org/culture/architecture/temple.htm, Brihadisvara, at Thanjavur (Tanjore in modern Tamil Nadu state), a stunning masterpiece of stonecraft engineering. The temple, now on the United Nations World Heritage List, was crowned in the king's vision. He capped the 216-foot main sanctum with a single stone weighing 86 tons and set in place by elephants' nudging it up a gentle sand ramp starting five miles away. The great sthapati (architect and sculptor) Kunjara Mallan Raja Raja Perunthachan was commissioned for the work.

That's a story that Dr. Vaidyanathan Ganapati Sthapati, 72, loves to hear, for he is a lineal descendent of that same Perunthachan of a thousand years ago. The great man's story reminds Ganapati Sthapati today of the tradition he is commissioned by birth to uphold. and of the indomitable spirit of his caste, the silpis, lords and and masters of South India's hard and heavy granite.

Though trained in stonecraft as a boy by his father and uncle, Ganapati Sthapati initially embarked on a career teaching mathematics. But, as the great poet Valluvar said, "What destiny calls yours will not depart." In 1957 Ganapati Sthapati joined the Tamil Nadu government temple board and began overseeing temple designs and construction.

In 1961 he took over as principal of the government College of Architecture and Sculpture, Mamallapuram, which his father and other sthapatis founded just four years earlier to issue degrees in affiliation with the University of Madras. For 27 years, until retiring in 1988, Ganapati Sthapati meticulously trained three generations of temple architects, sculptors and carvers. He taught them, too, the profound mystical side of the silpi tradition, how to create not just sculptures, but the very body of God. During his tenure, he oversaw the construction of dozens of temples, the carving of thousands of sculptures and even the construction of a few secular buildings, such as the library and administrative offices of the Tamil University in Tanjore.

Retirement for Sthapati hardly meant extra leisure. Rather than rest, he launched a private practice and was commissioned to build temples not oddly in India, but everywhere Hindus had settled in the past few decades. He has completed temples in America, England, Singapore, Malaysia, Fiji, Sri Lanka and Canada. Accomplished artist, sculptor, designer and project manager that he is, Ganapati Sthapati also succeeded at a broader and more meaningful goal: to establish India's ancient construction arts as an important and useful field of knowledge in the 21st century. In the process, he has evaluated each aspect of the ancient art in terms of modern methods.

The silpis, for example, use simple iron chisels made and maintained by onsite blacksmiths. Sthapati experimented with various metals to replace these iron tools, but ultimately found none an improvement over the traditional, cheap and easily created iron ones. As an alternate to breaking out stones with hand-methods, he tried blasting them lose with dynamite. But stones so quarried, he discovered, "lost their tone," and were useless for sculpting.

Noticing the trend toward simpler and simpler sculptures, Sthapati brought back clever and delicate demonstrations of the stone carver's art, such as the remarkable stone bell on a stone chain, with a stone clapper�all carved from a single rock.

Perhaps closest to Sthapati's heart has been exploring the philosophical, theoretical and historical traditions of stone carving. It is a field of knowledge that encompasses all dimensions of architecture, from sculpture design to town planning. In the process, he has generated renewed interest in the Vastu Shastras, the scriptures of this art, which he is having translated into English from the their original Sanskrit or ancient Tamil. Intrigued by the possible relationship between Maya, the Godly architect in Hindu tradition, and the Mayan people of South and Central America, he traveled throughout that region visiting ancient monuments and meeting with modern Mayan representatives. Repeatedly he was astounded by similarities between Hindu construction design and that of the Mayans, right down to the use of the same measurements and proportions. No explanation has been offered as to how this occurred, as the two peoples were never known to have been in Contact.

Throughout his life, Sthapati has worked to revitalise an ancient art imperiled by technology's usurpation of the hand-crafted way of life and its deeply spiritual and aesthetic principles."

V.Ganapati Sthapati, Vastu Vedic Research Foundation, Plot No.546, First Avenue, Vettuvankeni, Enjambakkam Village, Chennai 600 048, Tmail Nadu, India email: vastuved@MD3.vsni.net.in

Nagarkoil is a place, I've been there. And so is Nagapatnam, for instance. But it refers to Nagadevas, Nagapambu.
I can tell you that "Naga" in the Sarpam/Pambu sense is a common word in Thamizh. Names like Nagarcoil and Nagapattinam do not prove anything more than that we do Snake worship as we've always done.
Many of our Kovils contain/have adjoining sacred Naga Deva areas (Naga in the meaning of Pambu/Sarpam - as I already said) where us visitors perform our rituals around the sacred carvings in our worship of Naga Divinities. In general, we also show respect to Pambu puttu (sp?) - 'snake hills'.
Worship of Nagapambu is not confined to us, I think. (Seeing Snakes as divinity is a practise in the rest of India too, IIRC.) This is part of Hindu tradition - definitely in Thamizh Nadu and bordering regions.

See image: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Naga_Cult_Kanchipuram.jpg
Wikipedia image of the kind of sacred Naga temple grounds that I mean.
Captioned "Naga-worship next to the Sri Vaigunda Perumal Temple in Kanchipuram"
They patronisingly refer to it as "Naga Cult Kanchipuram" and "Very interesting iconographic mixture with Vaishnavite symbolism" and all. But Naga Deva worship is mainstream Hinduism (leastways, where I come from). And Adishesha/Sheshanaga was always associated with Mahavishnu.


If they are called Naga, this does not prove anything about their relation to the Mayans, or even about Nairs and the Nagas of the NE. Are the Nairs genetically related to the Indian Nagas of the NE - over and above their genetic kinship with other Indians, that is? Or, if the genetics thereof is as yet unknown, is their (historic/native) language - which I so far thought was Malayalam in the case of Nairs - more closely related to that of the NE population who are called Nagas?
With "Vamshajar" do you mean "Vamsham" like Ramar is of Raghuvamsam (Solar dynasty) while the Pandavas and/or Yadavas (or someone from the MB, I think) are Lunar dynasty?
Then do the Nagas of the NE also declare they are Naga Vamsham like the Nairs? That would then be something that indicates kinship. Though even if that were so, I suppose it's still possible for any community to have the name of "Naga" without it automatically connecting them with other communities/dynasties called Naga in other parts of India. Just like many communities may take on variations of the name "Singham": Hindu Singh from C India (Rajput?), Sikh Singh, SL Sinha and yet not necessarily be connected.


But in any case, no connection has yet been shown between the Nagapambu/-deva places in our temples with the Mayans.
- I'm not even convinced of a connection between any of the Indian meanings of "Naga" with Mayans.
- I've read some modern theories straining to connect the Nagas of NE with the Nagapambu worship in the South. (We have some millennia of tradition concerning our Naga Devas - the Pambu. Complete evidence of them being some human community is required to overturn the long-standing understanding we have of our beliefs, customs and practises.)
This 'theory' of our Naga Pambu worship being related to Nagas of the NE (let alone Mayans) has only surfaced in more recent times. Theories based on similarities of words and names remain just that until people show hard evidence.

At least 4 things need to be proven:
(1) that Naga pambu and related traditions (sacredness of puttu, and the like) are connected to Nagas of NE
(2) that Nairs are connected to Nagas of NE
(3) that the beings called Nagas in Mahabharatam (Uloopi and her kind) are connected to Nagas of NE
(According to Thamizh tradition, Uloopi is said to have governed a place in TN, near what's a temple now http://www.hindubook...koil/page13.htm
- but that's related to (2) again: what does it have to do with the Nagas of the NE? Also, doesn't MB describe Uloopi's people as not human and not looking entirely human - weren't they snake or something from the waist down?) So how is it the MB Nagas would magically match up with a rather human community of the same name? And if so, is this the DIT: us "Dravidians" now "drove the Nagas up to the NE" - all while we still worship "them"?
It feels more likely that the Nairs might recognise an affiliation with the Naga Devas or Uloopi's Nagas - in fact, I always thought these last two might be the same (at least in TN, since our state is at the coast of the ocean and Uloopi's kind of Nagas were described as great water-snake people who live in the water, isn't it?).
(4) that Nagas of NE are connected to Mayans. (Or that any of the other Nagas mentioned in (1) to (3) are connected to Mayans.)


Hinduwisdom noted several deep similarities between our two cultures (as well as some strained bits in there). There could well be some connection or ancient relations. But not knowing what that is, no point theorising about the different references to "Nagas" as pointing to one-and-the-same-thing, just yet. (It doesn't take much for guessing games to grow out of hand. Lots of old-generation Hindus also started accepting the AIT after continuous exposure to it, and then wrote on about it. Was it G. Tilak who wrote about some oryans "from the Arctic"? Besides, Dr Sthapati in the above text has not declared anything more than being astounded by similarities - he certainly doesn't appear to be theorising on their cause; although he's obviously aware of/"intrigued" by a possible relationship with Mayans, as it says.)

But there needs to be hard evidence (like genetics) to support this ever-expanding theory of "Mayans are NE-Nagas are the Nairs"; and that they are somehow related to the Naga Pambu we worship and are connected to Thamizh temple construction via the Hindu character of architect Maya.
Maya is a very common name in Hinduism without needing to refer to Mayans at all (and, separately, without his architecture being connected to Nagas from the NE).

I never liked word-based guessing games. Less so those centred around two-syllable words.

I have more questions. Which Kovils are the "Naga origin Kovils" you referred to in your post 213:
How do you know they are "Naga origin": do you mean they were built by Nairs or others who were of Nagavamsham?
Or do you merely mean they are dedicated to Nagadevas and 'therefore' they are connected to Nagas from NE and 'therefore' connected to Mayans?

Husky you are confusing yourself by bringing in NE Nagas. Keep them away from this discussion for time being.

About Naga and Mayan connection, there is a tribe in Guatemala, who are one of the three important Mayan founder tribes who mentioned that their ancestors were Nagas who travelled from a place in the East which was 100 days by boat PLZ SEARCH THE LINK THAT CONTAINS THE QUOTE, IT IS IN PREVIOUS PAGES. Again this is given as a link in Hinduwisdom site and in other places. This was again repeated during the Mayan-Hindu conference in Guatemala organized by a few genuine souls. This is also linked in this thread in previous pages.

We have a user i.d. on India Forum who goes by the name of 'Sengottuvan', now that is a Chera name. And the Cheras ruled Kerala and the very name of Kerala was derived from Chera. Nagarkoil or 'Nagar' Kovil was ancient capital of the Chera empire or so I have I heard. Secondly Nair's belong to the Chera empire. Now the Chera if you know, is a type of snake in South India. And Chera is that tamil version of sanskrit Sarpa.

Like the Nair of Kerala there is a caste in Tamil Nadu called Nadar ... that is another variation of the term Nagar. And Nadar's are mainly based around .. where else.. Nagar 'Kovil'. These are castes who were under Chera influence.

Now coming to the Nagas of NE, they are could be an eastern offshoot of the same Naga empire and were influenced by Naga culture. Even ancient CHINA was an outpost of Naga civilization, the most venerable of their ancient symbols of ancient Chinese was the snake. That is also why Buddhism found it easy to penetrate China and Far East, because shared Naga culture already gave them an established base with their shared heritage with Indic civilization. This shared heritage with India is what the Communist Revolution in China has sought to destroy.

Ganapati Sthapati is not talking of any vague details and connection here, he is talking of very minute and detailed similarities in temple architecture.

At least 4 things need to be proven:
(1) that Naga pambu and related traditions (sacredness of puttu, and the like) are connected to Nagas of NE

Nagas of NE can be connected to Naga civilizations Far Eastern Chinese influence, so that is a round about connection. If that is taken as a primary connection then it will serve to confuse. Do remember that this is a thinly researched subject and we are still connecting the dots.

(2) that Nairs are connected to Nagas of NE

In NE there seems to be a Nagaland, and that is proving to be the biggest disruption. Please consider these entities to be distant outposts of same civilization. That is what I am doing for now.

(3) that the beings called Nagas in Mahabharatam (Uloopi and her kind) are connected to Nagas of NE
(According to Thamizh tradition, Uloopi is said to have governed a place in TN, near what's a temple now http://www.hindubook...koil/page13.htm
- but that's related to (2) again: what does it have to do with the Nagas of the NE?

Again Nagas of NE have come into the picture. And they are just naga for namesake, naga civilizational influence to that part of the world has been the least studied. Let us for moment just consider them as an offshoot of Naga civilizations Chinese/Far Eastern/Central Asian connection. That will make it easier to understand.

Also, doesn't MB describe Uloopi's people as not human and not looking entirely human - weren't they snake or something from the waist down?) So how is it the MB Nagas would magically match up with a rather human community of the same name? And if so, is this the DIT: us "Dravidians" now "drove the Nagas up to the NE" - all while we still worship "them"?
It feels more likely that the Nairs might recognise an affiliation with the Naga Devas or Uloopi's Nagas - in fact, I always thought these last two might be the same (at least in TN, since our state is at the coast of the ocean and Uloopi's kind of Nagas were described as great water-snake people who live in the water, isn't it?).

That and lot more folklore is part of Naga narrative, plz refer to Aideehamala (spllg ?) to know a lot more of such stories. It does seem that the Nagas were a mystical people. Actually I now remember that it also looks like the mukkulathor, who were the progenitor of the martial races of Tamil Nadu viz were also originally from the Chera kingdom or even more profoundly they were progenitors of the Chera kingdom, they too were found in South and Western parts of ancient Tamil Nadu basically in same areas as the Chera kingdom was founded. Cheras were believed to be a great martial race and had a great sea-faring culture

In NE that
(4) that Nagas of NE are connected to Mayans. (Or that any of the other Nagas mentioned in (1) to (3) are connected to Mayans.)

The Mayan tribe who confessed as having descended from Naga tribes were part of threee ancient Mayan founder tribes from '100 days West of South Central America by boat/ship', the other two tribes and their offshoots were more of the Sinic varient of Naga culture, but the cultural influence of all three was unmistakably Naga. And so were their temples and architecture which was unmistakably Naga influenced as well, all temples and artifacts were derivate of plans laid out by their master architect Maya danava.

This was found from Afghanistan...
http://pratyeka.org/kabul-museum/

This is a statue of a Naga King emerging from a tank, and it appears to be holding the stalk of a lotus. The statue is 40 cm tall and made out of clay.


Nagas: The Ancient Rulers of India
by Dr. Naval Viyogi

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ProductID: 7397 - Hardcover - 486 Pages (Year: 2002)
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Indiaclub.com Description

The Nagas, like most of the other Native tribes has serpent as their totem. They also used to worship serpent and consider them to be their protective deity. They also used to wear artificial hoods of cobra on their heads at certain occasions. This book records their history.

The tradition of Naga worship or totem was in prevalence in Babylonia, Assyria, Palestine and Iran from ancient times and it was brought to India alongwith migration of Sumerians and Assyrians and Dravidian race.

There are enormous evidences of seals and seal impressions found from Indus towns to show that Indus Valley people also used to worship this serpent deity.

In Rigvedic account, there is a mention of Nagas among them Ahivritra is prominent, who was sworn enemy of Indra, the Aryan god and militant leader. In Atharva-Veda there are some hymns, which describe serpents named Iligi and Viligi, according to B S Upadhyaya, these were names of father and son the genealogical table of Assyrian kings. This proves that serpent (Naga) race and its tradition of serpent worship came from Western Asia.

Archaeological evidences recovered from the excavation of Prabhasa a site of B & R Ware culture in Kathiavar, it has been proved by scholars that users of this pottery were Yadavas of Mahabharata fame. These Yadavas were original inhabitants of Western Asia and Iran. Racially they were round headed alpine or a blend of Alpine or Dravidian race.

These people, according to Rigveda were non-Saskrit speaking non-Aryans whose mother tongue was Souraseni, which has been described as Mlechchha language in Puranas. They are also Called Dasas in Rigveda.

Krishna, the hero of Yadavas, in addition of his being an incarnation of Vishnu was also a son of Vasudeva and great grand son of Aryaka who was a Naga chief in origin. Baldeva or Baldou, the elder brother of Krishna is said to be reincarnation of SeshaNaga, hence he was always under the protection of many hoods of cobra. At his death his soul came out of his mouth in the form of large cobra.

They developed a guild based industry and trade system and at one stage their every village was turned into an industrial state. The base of their military system was nation-in-arms which made them most powerful and invincible people of the ancient age. Republican system was base of their ruling system, which is said to be modern development of Europeans.

In short these people were wealthy worker and warriors who believed in equality and brotherhood and knew no caste. They were followers of Buddha�s teachings of non-violence, their sword was not for violence but for maintaining peace. They were architect of urbanization of ancient India second time after the fall of Indus cities and their ultimate achievement was Golden Age of Indian history.

Thus the Naga culture was of great producer which made them great, on the other Aryan culture was non-productive which became the main cause of downfall of the nation at later stage.


Table of Contents

1.The Mythical Origin of the Naga Race.
2.The Expansion of Serpent workship and Naga Race in India
3.The Megalithic culture, its Origin and Expansion in India
4.The Civilizations of the Dark Age and Megalithic culture; An Archaeological Review.
5.The Origin of the Naga culture in the, Western Asia and its Transfer to Indus Valley
6.The Sanghas or Republics in India.
7.Pishachi, the Mother of Pali, Prakrit and Maharashtri
8.Who were the Nagas? Their Ethnical identity
9.The Black and Red ware culture, its relation with the Yadavas and the Naga Race
10.The Downfall of Vedic Culture and Rise of Shraman Naga Culture
11.The Satavahansa and the other Naga rulers of South
12.The Naga Rules of the north and Central India
13.The Guild Based trade and Industry during the Megalithic and Buddhist Age
14.The Megalithic Culture, its Relation with the Buddhism and Naga Race.
15.The Ethnical Identity of People of Maharashtra during the Historical period and their Relations with the Naga Race.







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I would like to interject just a bit here, with a few tidbits of what I feel might be relevant to the good discussion.

- etymology of mAyA in samskritam is mA-yA - one who does not exist (and yet exists). One who appears without any existance. or the contrary: one who exists but cannot be perceived by others.

- There is a vivid description of a great mAyA - in Valmiki Ramayanam. Hanuman mentions about mAyA and his deeds in his debrief.

- Jaya/Mahabharatam even begins with a vivid description of nAgA-s: through the highy mystified tale of two sisters kudru and vinatA who were married to sage kaSyapa. Many other tales about nAga-s including the very anchor of mahAbhAratam: the nAga-vinAsha-yagya / sarpa-yagya conducted by janamejaya in the beginning of the kaliyuga.

- back to the kudru-vinatA episode for a while. the whole take is so stunningly symbolic, it has layers upon layers of some hints, which we can pick. First it mentions domination of the sons of kudru - the nAga-s - in strength. It also mentions theier "enslaving" vanita and her son (garuDa). Then it also mentions how garuDa carries "some" nAga-s to certain islands, and then to some more islands. Having carried them their he begins the enterprises of freeing up himself and his mother from slavery of nAga cousins/step-brothers. It also mentions that some nAga-s were 'good' and others 'bad'. It then mentions that good nAga-s would be eventually be saved and immortalized, while bad ones will be slaughtered/vanished/empoverished. Good nAgas are mentioned with immense respect : e.g. Shesha who goes to the service of vishNu, just like garuDa himself.

- To me it appears that nAgA-s are not mere 'snakes/serpants', although the reptile - cobra (not just any snake) today might be taken as a representative of the ancient peoples called nAgA-s in their memory.

- It also mentions the other son of vinatA - aruNa - elder brother of garuDa - who because of impatience of his mother was born immatured. the tale is so mysterious - aruNa and garuDa are anDaja - come out of eggs hatched by his mother. So aruNa born immaturely and underdeveloped - goes to Mitra - the Sun to live with him forever.

- While there are very appropriate Adhyatmik meanings of the tale, very appropriate symbolism of Yogic experiences, it also appears to me that these set of tales, and various others of that context, might really want to be telling us about a dominant ancient people called nAga-s were once dominant force and population (1000 to 1.5 - if you go by the number in kudru-vinatA tale), but they continued to grow in ego and hostility to their cousins. They are eventually migrated to some islands, and also slaughtered (sarpa-yagya by janmejaya where he wants to completely vanish all the nAga-s)

- mention of Nagarcoil came, but also remember Nagpur! (some say this is where janamejaya performed sarpa-yagya)

- nAgesh : Lord of nAga-s - is a celebrated name of Lord Siva. nAgar (which also means citizen) is name of Lord krishna.

- nAga-s are also mentioned as enemies of Asura-s too. e.g. in Samudra Manthana episode, vAsukI nAga emitted terrible 'clouds of venom' upon asura-s killing so many of them, while saving sura-s from it at the same time, by keeping his mouth(s) towards asura-s and tail towards sura-s

=========

- By the way, only last week an ancient temple has been discovered in Peru. early dating estimates take it to as far as 3rd millenium BCE - making it almost contemporary of the Saraswati/Ghagghar and Egyptians. I had posted news about it on Miscelanuous History of India thread.

- Also remember another curious fact. Temple arts in Peru have depicted Elephants. Elephants have not been known to be found in Americas. Western Archaeologists have not been able to answer this one. Elephants have never lived in Americas. So they try to explain that this may be because there were trade relations, and they americans might be exposed to Elephants that way. Others tried to say the image is not elephant at all, but some other creature.

- As Raju said somewhere, there is/was a belief of native americans that they came from somewhere in the east by sailing for a certain number of days, etc.

- Mexican state symbol even *today* is an Eagle(?) carrying a snake in its beek. The same image can be found all over the Hindu temple arts, and represents the tale of kudru-vinatA : garuDa eventually carrying off his cousins/half-brothers to an island (for protection)

- Recall the record of how locals welcomed the terrorist tyrant Columbus and his gang, traeating them as if they were of their own, coming from their heavens, and lands of their Gods! Not knowing who he was. What were they thinking? Of course that he came from the east - from the lands of their forefathers!

- VS Naipaul, who having spent a lot of time in south america, has written about the native beleifs and culture throughout his literature. One that he mentions, is about their remembering and revering places in east. There is a tale that they used to sail, amid high risks, across the ocean to east - up to Greece and middle east and worship there in temples and monasteries and go back. Like their doing a highest pilgrimage. I had reproduced that piece in 'Sri Krishna and Rama Setu'.

http://www.hindustan...01600060001.htm

Hindu-Maya Cultural Dialogue Takes Place in Guatemala City (Guatemala)
May 27, 2005
Hindustan Times


On May 27, 2005 the Hindustan Times reported, "The Mayans of Guatemala - representative of the Maya civilization that flourished during the first millennium AD in Central America - believe their ancestors came to this part of the globe 20,000 years ago from the East. One of the most dominant ethnic groups, Kekichi Maya, has always had special attraction for India in the past as their forefathers have told them that the 'Naga tribes of Nagaland' were one of the four original branches of the Maya civilization. (this is common mistake, they know of their naga origin but mistakenly connect it to landlocked Nagaland, because it is the only Naga sounding name in Anglicized India) It is for these reasons and the similarities between the Aryan and Mayan civilizations, the people of Guatemala for long have been trying to establish contact with Indians and have a cultural dialogue. The first such dialogue formally gets going at Maya Village, Lake Atitlan in Guatemala on May 29... A 16-member delegation of intellectuals, academicians and scholars from six countries - mainly people of Indian origin - left Houston in Texas for the Guatemala City on May 27 to participate in the two day conference on 'Hindu-Maya Cultural Similarities.'"

MEXICAN FLAG

The Aztec version of Garuda with a snake in its beak.

Maybe, but may not be, too. We don't yet know, and with mass christianization of centuries, at both Naga-s we may or may never know.

A friend of mine has visited a village in NE some time back (not exactly NL) for some work, and witnessed a strange ritual. Kind of mirror image of the description of sarpa-yagya of Janamejaya. In this ritual, on a certain tithi, the tribals assemble in the night, usually around midnight and past, and burn bonfires and play some chants. Then all of sudden, from everywhere, birds of many types start appearing and jumping into the fire killing themselves. In a few hours, thousands of birds self-immolate themselves. Kind of a 'revenge' for Janamejaya's Sarpa-yagya in which a similar ritual was performed to kill snakes, as per the tale, when snakes come and fall in the fire. That is only my speculation, but the above reported event is very real. I would trust this friend.

Good thing you told me, I googled for some Kekchi images. And I found that the Kekchis looked a bit different from the rest of the Mayans. They resembled our North East walas more.

But some others like Mopan Maya, look strikingly mallu, while some others viz Quiche Maya look like mallu crossed with North East Indian. Fascinating !

Hmmm. If you mean that there were Thamizh and Kerala people who were of "Nagavamsham" and they are the ones you refer to as Nagas and are connected to Mayans, then I have no quarrel with what you say. Sure, locals who built some Kovils in S may well have been of these S Hindu communities. In which case your "Naga origin Kovils" would not contradict my stating that TN temples are of Thamizh Hindu origin.
And if then the Nagas of NE are a distant outpost (distant in time and space) related to the same, I have no problem with that either - you then didn't mean to imply that they built some of our historic Temples and then suddenly moved NE and remain there (while no longer building S Indian style Temples).
I misunderstood what you meant by Naga or "Naga origin" altogether; I thought that even in India you meant it to originate (only) in NE; and that you were insisting that Naga Devargal/Uloopi's kind were the human NE Nagas.

I'd like to know if the contribution of the other "Godly architect in Hindu tradition" Maya is also represented in the Agamas - must be, if the "measurements and proportions" of the Mayan Temple construction is well-known to S Indian Shilpis.

I never heard that Nadar is linguistically related to NAga. They are historically a martial people (I don't know whether they have a Nagapambu culture though, but they do have a sacred coconut based culture, rather similar to the importance and usage of the coconut in Vedic rites). But today's TN imagines they're a Harijan community according to some missionary book.
(Another Thamizh word "Nagar" - without long first A - just means place/township/city and from common uasage seems a separate word in its entirety. Then it's not to be confused with such as NAgarkoil, NAgapattinam).

That Mexican flag with an eagle and snake is indeed a marvel. To think that although I've seen it often enough, I had never noticed the significance. Hopeless!

And the reverse-Janmejaya sacrifice (Bodhi's post) is even more of a revelation. But in that case, Janmejaya's yagna might have been a sacrifice of actual snakes (that is, Nagapambu/sarpam) - if NE Nagas' sacrifice is of actual birds. (Is the NE Nagas' yagna carried out for the purposes of evening out historical deaths or something?)

Like Solar and Lunar dynasties that trace descent back to the respective Gods, I think those of Nagavamsham are human communities that trace their descent back to the Naga Devas (Naga Devas who are represented by Nagapambu - snakes who are therefore regarded as sacred). That would certainly explain why we know what we are doing when worshipping Nagadevas (and we most definitely know that these are not the human Naga community of NE or the Nairs or the Cheras or even the Mayans that we are offering our prayers to).


Sorry for taking the thread hostage.

A few small things which I forgot above:
Whenever someone talks about snake symbols in other cultures, I never know whether they mean dragons or snakes. In Ireland, the christians congratulated themselves on having chased away "the snakes"; and then there was the christian tradition of "dragon slaying". (I don't think this has to do with any Nagas - at least, not any human community of Nagas.)

The sacred Chinese dragon - if that is what you meant with "snake" in the above - is described very precisely in their tradition. Its form is an amalgamation of several animals: antlers for horns, fish' gills, claws of a bird of prey and several other very particular features that I can't recall at present. Carvings of Chinese dragons adorn Taoist temples and the creature is held sacred in Korea and other places around E Asia as well.
But I don't think the Chinese Dragon is anything like the Snake symbolism in India. And it certainly doesn't recall Uloopi's description. It's never presented as (partially) human-like either, unlike our Naga Devas.
However, one point of similarity is that both the Chinese Dragon and Uloopi's Nagas are said to reside in the water. But the Chinese Dragon is also known to reside in a special drum or something. There is one Chinese Dragon - it has several sons, yet they are all said to be the same. (Maybe this is like how our Gods are all ultimately one.) And it's also said there's a Chinese dragon for the seas in all 4 directions.

Are you referring to the ID Sengotuvel? It is a well-known Thamizh name for Murughan. If the Cheras had this name, then they got it from the Thamizh name for Murughan.

Nagas in India worshipped dragons (human face and tail of snake), they are the originators of dragon worship and instrumental in popularising of the Dragon symbol throughout the world. This was transmitted to China as well as ME and through ME into Europe (pic 1, pic 2) even before the spread of Buddhism due to cultural influence and outreach of the Naga dynasties. There were Indian Naga dynasties that were progenitors of Dragon worship .. a dragon is nothing else but a snake with legs. If you observe the Chinese dragon festivals, then the dragon is a long coiling creature with legs. Naga Dynasties were instrumental in spreading the dragon lore because of their tremendous reach into Central Asia, Far East, and Middle East of Asia.

http://en.wikipedia....Japanese_dragon
Japanese dragon

In Japanese mythology, a dragon is a guardian of the imperial family, also the god of thunder and lightening. He can be seen in pictures and sculptures holding a peril. DRAGON MYTHOLOGY. A mythological animal of Chinese origin, and a member of the NAGA (Sanskrit) family of serpentine creatures who protect Buddhism. Japan's dragon lore comes predominantly from China. Images of the reptilian dragon are found throughout Asia, and the pictorial form most widely recognized today was already prevalent in Chinese ink paintings in the Tang period (9th century AD). The mortal enemy of the dragon is the Phoenix, as well as the bird-man creature known as Karura (Garuda ?). In contrast to Western mythology, Asian dragons are rarely depicted as malevolent. Although fearsome and powerful, dragons are equally considered just, benevolent, and the bringers of wealth and good fortune. The dragon is also considered a shape shifter who can assume human form and mate with people.

Dragons figure importantly in folk beliefs throughout Asia, and are dressed heavily in Buddhist garb. In India, the birthplace of Buddhism around 500 BC, pre-Buddhist snake or serpentine-like creatures known as the NAGA were incorporated early on into Buddhist mythology. Described as "water spirits with human shapes wearing a crown of serpents on their heads" or as "snake-like beings resembling clouds," the NAGA are among the eight classes of deities who worship and protect the Historical Buddha. Even before the Historical Buddha (Siddhartha, Guatama) attained enlightenment, the Naga King Mucilinda (Sanskrit) is said to have protected Siddhartha from wind and rain for seven days. This motif is found often in Buddhist art from India, represented by images of the Buddha sitting beneath Mucilinda's hood and coils. (Above paragraph adapted from book by M.W. De Visser.)

In China, however, dragon lore existed independently for centuries before the introduction of Buddhism. Bronze and jade pieces from the Shang and Zhou dynasties (16th - 9th centuries BC) depict dragon-like creatures. By at least the 2nd century BC, images of the dragon are found painted frequently on tomb walls to dispel evil. Buddhism was introduced to China sometime in the 1st and 2nd centuries AD. By the 9th century AD, the Chinese had incorporated the dragon into Buddhist thought and iconography as a protector of the various Buddha and the Buddhist law. These traditions were adopted by the Japanese (Buddhism did not arrive in Japan until the mid-6th century AD). In both China and Japan, the character for "dragon" (see orange-colored ideogram at top of page) is used often in temple names, and dragon carvings adorn many temple structures. Most Japanese Zen temples, moreover, have a dragon painted on the ceiling of their assembly halls. In both Chinese and Japanese mythology, the dragon is one of four legendary creatures guarding the four cosmic directions (Red Bird - S, Dragon - E, Tortoise - N, and the Tiger - W). The four, known as the Four Celestial Emblems, appear during China's Warring States period (476 BC - 221 BC), and were frequently painted on the walls of early Chinese and Korean tombs to ward off evil spirits. The Dragon is the Guardian of the East, and is identified with the season spring, the color green/blue, the element wood (sometimes also water), the virtue propriety, the Yang male energy; supports and maintains the country (controls rain, symbol of the Emperor's power). The Guardian of the South, the Red Bird (aka Suzaku, Ho-oo, Phoenix), is the enemy of the dragon, as is the bird-man Karura. Actually, the Phoenix is the mythological enemy of all Naga, a Sanskrit term covering all types of serpentine creatures, including snakes and dragons. The Dragon (East) and Phoenix (South) both represent Yang energy, but they are often depicted as enemies, for the Dragon represents the element wood, while the Phoenix signifies the element fire. However, they're also often depicted together in artwork as partners. The Dragon is the male counterpart to the female Phoenix, and together they symbolize both conflict and wedded bliss -- the emperor (dragon) and the empress (phoenix). DRAGON SYMBOLISM GENERAL DESCRIPTION Excerpt from "Myths & Legends of Japan" by F. Hadland Davis. The Dragon has the head of a camel, horns or a deer, eyes of a hare, scales of a carp, paws of a tiger, and claws resembling those of an eagle. In addition it has whiskers, a bright jewel under its chin, and a measure on the top of its head which enables it to ascend to Heaven at will. This is merely a general description and does not apply to all dragons, some of which have heads of so extraordinary a kind that they cannot be compared with anything in the animal kingdom. The breath of the Dragon changes into clouds from which come either rain or fire. It is able to expand or contract its body, and in addition it has the power of transformation and invisibility. The ancient Chinese Emperor Yao was said to be the son of a dragon, and many rulers of that country were metaphorically referred to as dragon-faced." -- end excerpt by Hadland. DRAGON SYMBOLISM - TYPES OF DRAGONS In both Chinese and Japanese mythology, the dragon is closely associated with the watery realm, and in artwork is often surrounded by water or clouds. In myth, there are four dragon kings who rule over the four seas (which in the old Chinese conception limited the habitable earth). In China, a fifth category of dragon was added to these four, for a total of five dragon types:

1. Celestial Dragons who guard the mansions of the gods
2. Spiritual Dragons who rule wind & rain but can also cause flooding
3. Earth Dragons who cleanse the rivers & deepen the oceans
4. Treasure-Guarding Dragons who protect precious metals & stones
5. Imperial Dragons; dragons with five claws instead of the usual four

http://www.ignca.nic.in/ks_41019.htm

A SINO-INDIAN PERSPECTIVE FOR INDIA-CHINA UNDERSTANDING

Tan Chung

II

If we regard India and China as cultural twins from the same cradle, it is important to find the cultural affinity of the two civilizations. One common symbol is the powerful snake whose legendary image is known as Nagaraja in India, and LonglDragon in China. . In Chinese Buddhist literature, these two symbols have merged into "Long"(Chinese translators, like the famous pilgrim Xuanzang, rendered the supernatural Naga in ancient Indian texts into Longldragon on purpose.) Ancient Chinese heard about the magical power of Indians to call rains whenever they wanted. Some Indian Buddhist monks, like Vajrabodhi and Amoghavajra etc., demonstrated such a power by playing with the symbol of NagalDragon. We have records of Indian monks presiding over imperial rain-invoking ceremonies when China was visited by severe drought in the years 366, 726, 772 and 889, the last occurred in independent Yunnan -the state of Nanzhao.2 Both India and China were agrocultures (I have coined the term to replace the tongue-twister "agricultural culture") for which rain-fall assumed great importance. The imaginary powerful NagamjalDragon symbol definitely had a connection with it. We can describe the two civilizations as Snake-Power Twins before the advent of Buddhism in China.

I have taken this proposition of Naga-Long twinhood to the academic fora both in China and in Taiwan, and have encountered violent opposition. (this is result of communist indoctrination in China which sought to severe sinic links with India) My opponents argued that Long had had its independent existence for five-six thousand years, that China was always the Homeland of Dragon, and the Chinese were famous for being the "Progenies of Dragon" {Long de chuanren). Even the idea of a part of the social functions of the dragon symbol might originate from India was unacceptable because it hurt the Chinese pride in their thousand years of affinity with Long. This, in a way, underlines the daunting task of popularizing the Sino-Indian perspective among Chinese (and also Indian) scholars while studying the history and culture of India and China. The Sino-Indian perspective involved here is to treat Chinese and Indian cultures not as two separate entities developing in isolation, but as the two faces of the same culture developing in different socio-cultural surroundings constantly benefited by interface synergy. The mystification of the supernatural power of snake in India and Long in China was the product of agriculture of both the countries. While we don't have concrete evidence for the Indian input in the imagination of the pre. Buddhist Chinese Long, we certainly can trace the Indian influence on the Buddhist (and post Buddhist, if you wish) Chinese Long. For one thing, the artifacts that symbolize Long created in pre-Buddhist China are by and large free from the fierce look that typifies the Buddhist Long (like the Chinese say, "zhangya wuzhua", i.e. baring its teeth and waving its claws) which clearly demonstrate the inner social function of LonglDragon as the guardian of the imperial system. It is in this function that we clearly see the Indian contribution.

To recapitulate what I have spelt out elsewhere, during the pre-Buddhist period, even as late as the Han Dynasty, the Dragon/Long was treated as a "beast" (chu). The famous Han scholar, Wang Chong (27-97?), cited Chinese traditions like Long being reared so that people could eat its liver.3 But, in Indian legends, Siva was a Naga, Buddha was also a Naga, and the Indian traditions of Nagaraja performing the role of a guardian-angel for the God/Buddha and the sacred treasure. It was this message which was driven home in Chinese oral culture as well as literary tradition. Only after absorbing this cultural function from the Indian Nagaraja did the Chinese Long become a close companion of the Chinese imperial families in all dynasties from Sui. Tang till the Manchu. Another clear Chinese borrowing from India is the "Dragon-King" (Longwang) from the Indian Nagaraja. China scholars have found that this cult of Longwang has settled deeply in China's socio-cultural chemistry as many penetrating studies, like that of Prasenjit Duara, who has included Longwang in his projection of the "cultural nexus of power" in China.4 Longwang/Dragon King is undisputably the symbol of Sino-Indian cultural twinhood that demonstrates the existence of Snake- Power Twins of India and China.

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Naga_Kingdom

Uloopi is mentioned in this link.

Added ltr: It also shows extent and reach of the Naga Empire.

Now, this could be relevant to both Maya Danava and the topic at hand, it is mentioned that Nazis had found large hollow spaces within earth and below the ocean which accorded them direct access to the Antartic region from South Africa, below is the vedic narrative which is mythological but gives us some kind of clue as to what that hollow space could be. That hollow space could be one such example from what is written below.

Chapter 24: The Subterranean Heavenly Planets


Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Srimad Bhagavatam



SB 5.24 Summary

SB 5.24.7: My dear King, beneath this earth are seven other planets, known as Atala, Vitala, Sutala, Talatala, Mahatala, Rasatala and Patala. I have already explained the situation of the planetary systems of earth. The width and length of the seven lower planetary systems are calculated to be exactly the same as those of earth.

SB 5.24.8: In these seven planetary systems, which are also known as the subterranean heavens [bila-svarga], there are very beautiful houses, gardens and places of sense enjoyment, which are even more opulent than those in the higher planets because the demons have a very high standard of sensual pleasure, wealth and influence. Most of the residents of these planets, who are known as Daityas, Danavas and Nagas, live as householders. Their wives, children, friends and society are all fully engaged in illusory, material happiness. The sense enjoyment of the demigods is sometimes disturbed, but the residents of these planets enjoy life without disturbances. Thus they are understood to be very attached to illusory happiness.


SB 5.24.9: My dear King, in the imitation heavens known as bila-svarga there is a great demon named Maya Danava, who is an expert artist and architect. He has constructed many brilliantly decorated cities. There are many wonderful houses, walls, gates, assembly houses, temples, yards and temple compounds, as well as many hotels serving as residential quarters for foreigners. The houses for the leaders of these planets are constructed with the most valuable jewels, and they are always crowded with living entities known as Nagas and Asuras, as well as many pigeons, parrots and similar birds. All in all, these imitation heavenly cities are most beautifully situated and attractively decorated.

SB 5.24.10: The parks and gardens in the artificial heavens surpass in beauty those of the upper heavenly planets. The trees in those gardens, embraced by creepers, bend with a heavy burden of twigs with fruits and flowers, and therefore they appear extraordinarily beautiful. That beauty could attract anyone and make his mind fully blossom in the pleasure of sense gratification. There are many lakes and reservoirs with clear, transparent water, agitated by jumping fish and decorated with many flowers such as lilies, kuvalayas, kahlaras and blue and red lotuses. Pairs of cakravakas and many other water birds nest in the lakes and always enjoy in a happy mood, making sweet, pleasing vibrations that are very satisfying and conducive to enjoyment of the senses.

SB 5.24.11: Since there is no sunshine in those subterranean planets, time is not divided into days and nights, and consequently fear produced by time does not exist.

SB 5.24.12: Many great serpents reside there with gems on their hoods, and the effulgence of these gems dissipates the darkness in all directions.

SB 5.24.13: Since the residents of these planets drink and bathe in juices and elixirs made from wonderful herbs, they are freed from all anxieties and physical diseases. They have no experience of grey hair, wrinkles or invalidity, their bodily lusters do not fade, their perspiration does not cause a bad smell, and they are not troubled by fatigue or by lack of energy or enthusiasm due to old age.

SB 5.24.14: They live very auspiciously and do not fear death from anything but death's established time, which is the effulgence of the Sudarsana cakra of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

SB 5.24.15: When the Sudarsana disc enters those provinces, the pregnant wives of the demons all have miscarriages due to fear of its effulgence.

SB 5.24.16: My dear King, now I shall describe to you the lower planetary systems, one by one, beginning from Atala. In Atala there is a demon, the son of Maya Danava named Bala, who created ninety-six kinds of mystic power. Some so-called yogis and svamis take advantage of this mystic power to cheat people even today. Simply by yawning, the demon Bala created three kinds of women, known as svairini, kamini and pumscali. The svairinis like to marry men from their own group, the kaminis marry men from any group, and the pumscalis change husbands one after another. If a man enters the planet of Atala, these women immediately capture him and induce him to drink an intoxicating beverage made with a drug known as hataka [cannabis indica]. This intoxicant endows the man with great sexual prowess, of which the women take advantage for enjoyment. A woman will enchant him with attractive glances, intimate words, smiles of love and then embraces. In this way she induces him to enjoy sex with her to her full satisfaction. Because of his increased sexual power, the man thinks himself stronger than ten thousand elephants and considers himself most perfect. Indeed, illusioned and intoxicated by false pride, he thinks himself God, ignoring impending death.

SB 5.24.17: The next planet below Atala is Vitala, wherein Lord Siva, who is known as the master of gold mines, lives with his personal associates, the ghosts and similar living entities. Lord Siva, as the progenitor, engages in sex with Bhavani, the progenitress, to produce living entities, and from the mixture of their vital fluid the river named Hataki is generated. When fire, being made to blaze by the wind, drinks of this river and then sizzles and spits it out, it produces gold called Hataka. The demons who live on that planet with their wives decorate themselves with various ornaments made from that gold, and thus they live there very happily.

SB 5.24.18: Below the planet Vitala is another planet, known as Sutala, where the great son of Maharaja Virocana, Bali Maharaja, who is celebrated as the most pious king, resides even now. For the welfare of Indra, the King of heaven, Lord Vishnu appeared in the form of a dwarf brahmacari as the son of Aditi and tricked Bali Maharaja by begging for only three paces of land but taking all the three worlds. Being very pleased with Bali Maharaja for giving all his possessions, the Lord returned his kingdom and made him richer than the opulent King Indra. Even now, Bali Maharaja engages in devotional service by worshiping the Supreme Personality of Godhead in the planet of Sutala.

SB 5.24.19: My dear King, Bali Maharaja donated all his possessions to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Vamanadeva, but one should certainly not conclude that he achieved his great worldly opulence in bila-svarga as a result of his charitable disposition. The Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is the source of life for all living entities, lives within everyone as the friendly Supersoul, and under His direction a living entity enjoys or suffers in the material world. Greatly appreciating the transcendental qualities of the Lord, Bali Maharaja offered everything at His lotus feet. His purpose, however, was not to gain anything material, but to become a pure devotee. For a pure devotee, the door of liberation is automatically opened. One should not think that Bali Maharaja was given so much material opulence merely because of his charity. When one becomes a pure devotee in love, he may also be blessed with a good material position by the will of the Supreme Lord. However, one should not mistakenly think that the material opulence of a devotee is the result of his devotional service. The real result of devotional service is the awakening of pure love for the Supreme Personality of Godhead, which continues under all circumstances.

SB 5.24.20: If one who is embarrassed by hunger or who falls down or stumbles chants the holy name of the Lord even once, willingly or unwillingly, he is immediately freed from the reactions of his past deeds. Karmis entangled in material activities face many difficulties in the practice of mystic yoga and other endeavors to achieve that same freedom.

SB 5.24.21: The Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is situated in everyone's heart as the Supersoul, sells Himself to His devotees such as Narada Muni. In other words, the Lord gives pure love to such devotees and gives Himself to those who love Him purely. Great, self-realized mystic yogis such as the four Kumaras also derive great transcendental bliss from realizing the Supersoul within themselves.

SB 5.24.22: The Supreme Personality of Godhead did not award His mercy to Bali Maharaja by giving him material happiness and opulence, for these make one forget loving service to the Lord. The result of material opulence is that one can no longer absorb his mind in the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

SB 5.24.23: When the Supreme Personality of Godhead could see no other means of taking everything away from Bali Maharaja, He adopted the trick of begging from him and took away all the three worlds. Thus only his body was left, but the Lord was still not satisfied. He arrested Bali Maharaja, bound him with the ropes of Varuna and threw him in a cave in a mountain. Nevertheless, although all his property was taken and he was thrown into a cave, Bali Maharaja was such a great devotee that he spoke as follows.

SB 5.24.24: Alas, how pitiable it is for Indra, the King of heaven, that although he is very learned and powerful and although he chose Brihaspati as his prime minister to instruct him, he is completely ignorant concerning spiritual advancement. Brihaspati is also unintelligent because he did not properly instruct his disciple Indra. Lord Vamanadeva was standing at Indra's door, but King Indra, instead of begging Him for an opportunity to render transcendental loving service, engaged Him in asking me for alms to gain the three worlds for his sense gratification. Sovereignty over the three worlds is very insignificant because whatever material opulence one may possess lasts only for an age of Manu, which is but a tiny fraction of endless time.

SB 5.24.25: Bali Maharaja said: My grandfather Prahlada Maharaja is the only person who understood his own self-interest. Upon the death of Prahlada's father, Hiranyakasipu, Lord Nrisimhadeva wanted to offer Prahlada his father's kingdom and even wanted to grant him liberation from material bondage, but Prahlada accepted neither. Liberation and material opulence, he thought, are obstacles to devotional service, and therefore such gifts from the Supreme Personality of Godhead are not His actual mercy. Consequently, instead of accepting the results of karma and jnana, Prahlada Maharaja simply begged the Lord for engagement in the service of His servant.

SB 5.24.26: Bali Maharaja said: Persons like us, who are still attached to material enjoyment, who are contaminated by the modes of material nature and who lack the mercy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, cannot follow the supreme path of Prahlada Maharaja, the exalted devotee of the Lord.

SB 5.24.27: Sukadeva Gosvami continued: My dear King, how shall I glorify the character of Bali Maharaja? The Supreme Personality of Godhead, the master of the three worlds, who is most compassionate to His own devotee, stands with club in hand at Bali Maharaja's door. When Ravana, the powerful demon, came to gain victory over Bali Maharaja, Vamanadeva kicked him a distance of eighty thousand miles with His big toe. I shall explain the character and activities of Bali Maharaja later [in the Eighth Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam].

SB 5.24.28: Beneath the planet known as Sutala is another planet, called Talatala, which is ruled by the Danava demon named Maya. Maya is known as the acarya [master] of all the mayavis, who can invoke the powers of sorcery. For the benefit of the three worlds, Lord Siva, who is known as Tripurari, once set fire to the three kingdoms of Maya, but later, being pleased with him, he returned his kingdom. Since that time, Maya Danava has been protected by Lord Siva, and therefore he falsely thinks that he need not fear the Sudarsana cakra of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

SB 5.24.29: The planetary system below Talatala is known as Mahatala. It is the abode of many-hooded snakes, descendants of Kadru, who are always very angry. The great snakes who are prominent are Kuhaka, Takshaka, Kaliya and Sushena. The snakes in Mahatala are always disturbed by fear of Garuda, the carrier of Lord Vishnu, but although they are full of anxiety, some of them nevertheless sport with their wives, children, friends and relatives.

SB 5.24.30: Beneath Mahatala is the planetary system known as Rasatala, which is the abode of the demoniac sons of Diti and Danu. They are called Panis, Nivata-kavacas, Kaleyas and Hiranya-puravasis [those living in Hiranya-pura]. They are all enemies of the demigods, and they reside in holes like snakes. From birth they are extremely powerful and cruel, and although they are proud of their strength, they are always defeated by the Sudarsana cakra of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who rules all the planetary systems. When a female messenger from Indra named Sarama chants a particular curse, the serpentine demons of Mahatala become very afraid of Indra.

SB 5.24.31: Beneath Rasatala is another planetary system, known as Patala or Nagaloka, where there are many demoniac serpents, the masters of Nagaloka, such as Sankha, Kulika, Mahasankha, Sveta, Dhananjaya, Dhritarashtra, Sankhacuda, Kambala, Asvatara and Devadatta. The chief among them is Vasuki. They are all extremely angry, and they have many, many hoods -- some snakes five hoods, some seven, some ten, others a hundred and others a thousand. These hoods are bedecked with valuable gems, and the light emanating from the gems illuminates the entire planetary system of bila-svarga.

http://vedabase.net/sb/5/24/en1

Raju, I've some comments on your posts 230-232 above (and a correction to my post 229). I've put them at http://www.india-for...indpost&p=75402
as my post is about small things which are not even related to "2012". Besides, you and others would want to move on with the actual discussion without me interrupting and delaying every five minutes.

And just to complete the part about the bird sacrifice reported in 226.

The village is Jatinga, in Cachar Hills of interior Assam. Though the village is in Assam, it is populated by nAga-s.



Here are some viewpoint about the annual event of bird-'suicide'.

From a travelog:

The end of the world as we know it
Doomsday scenarios and their probability or idiocy

By Patrick Griffith
Thursday, November 15, 2007 at 12:05 PM


It�s a normal day; there�s nothing out of the ordinary to differentiate it from yesterday or tomorrow, until small asteroids start pelting the earth from all sides. And it gets worse��much worse. In a matter of days an asteroid possibly larger than the state of Texas (although the residents of Texas might strongly disagree) could obliterate everything. That�s when the dashing Harry Stamper steps in to put the fate of the world on his shoulders. Stamper and his crew go out to destroy the asteroid and save the world all to the melodic and symphonic sounds of Aerosmith�s �I don�t want to miss a thing.�

People are enthralled with how the world could end. This intrigue is exemplified by the vast number of movies that deal with the end of the world. Michael Bay�s film, Armageddon, about an asteroid capable of destroying earth, is just one of many. According to www.Imdbpro.com, Armageddon took in $36.1 million in its opening weekend alone, on the way to grossing about $555 million worldwide. Zombie movies are also a popular draw with their ties to the apocalyptic idea of the walking dead. These movies also embody the widespread fascination with the end of the world. With recent films like Dawn of the Dead and Resident Evil: Extinction grossing $58 and $106 million respectively worldwide.

From a killer asteroid, to the end of the Mayan calendar to the biblical apocalypse, the end of the world has been played out on the silver screen or the small screen many a time, but what is the possibility of something like a killer asteroid? There are dates looming in the distant and not-so-distant future with the mysterious end of the Maya calendar in December of 2012, to an asteroid that is projected to come eerily close, but not hit earth, in 2029.

Doomsday asteroid

In 2029 an asteroid called 2004 MN4 will come within 18,600 miles of earth. It is expected to fly between the earth and the moon, says John S. Lewis, professor of cosmochemistry planetary atmospheres at the University of Arizona, Tucson. The asteroid will be closer to the earth than earth�s satellites. The 2004 MN4 asteroid will come close enough to us that earth�s gravitational pull will strongly affect the path of the asteroid, and after that, it will be difficult to map exactly where the asteroid will go, he says. Lewis is the author of books such as Mining the Sky and Rain of Iron and Ice.

The exact size of the asteroid that will come close to earth in 2029 is hard to determine, but it is estimated to be a couple of football fields in diameter based on its brightness, Lewis says.

There are about 1,200 asteroids that come close to Earth or cross Earth�s orbit, Lewis says. The average asteroid lasts 30 million years, and it flies around until it runs into a planet. Approximately every 100,000 years, a 1-kilometer sized object will hit Earth, which could be regionally disastrous. For example, a 1-kilometer asteroid would all but eliminate the Netherlands, he says. Asteroids are quite diverse in their make-up. They can be made of steel, clay minerals, sulfite minerals, and they have a typical impact speed of 25-30 km per second.

In terms of the end of the world, Lewis says, it won�t come from an asteroid. The planet won�t be destroyed because planets are too robust.

�It takes a lot to do in a planet,� Lewis says.

But there is something we can do to possibly avoid an asteroid attack in the future. An asteroid�s orbit can be changed by setting off a nuclear explosion near it that could deflect its path, Lewis says. The asteroid would then recoil away from the explosion, missing Earth instead of hitting it. Further destruction could also be avoided using rocket engines on the asteroid to divert it away from Earth, Lewis says.

The end of the Mayan calendar

More eminent than an asteroid is the end of the Mayan calendar. The calendar ends in a little more than five years, on December 21, 2012.

Maya expert John Major Jenkins says that the calendar is the most important thing the Maya left behind. He has written several books on the subject, like Maya Cosmogenesis 2012: The True Meaning of the Maya Calendar End-Date and Galactic Alignment: The Transformation of Consciousness According to Mayan, Egyptian, and Vedic Traditions. He says the loudest interpretation of the calendar, incorrectly so, is that it signals doomsday. Coming to this conclusion is understandable, Jenkins says, in a nihilistic civilization and in an era of spiritual darkness, apathy and ignorance. Authors that link 2012 with doom are simply spreading fear-based talking points, he says.

Western nihilists see the end of the calendar as indicative of doomsday. The Maya wisdom teachers who invented the 2012 calendar say it means transformation and renewal, Jenkins says, because of the cyclical nature of the calendar; a cyclical nature that makes the future unpredictable. �It�s similar to a newborn insisting on someone telling them what its new life will be like,� Jenkins says.

He also explains the end of the Mayan calendar and its cyclical nature in terms of adjacent days. The process of a day is cyclical; day becomes night, then the sun rises again and the day is renewed. Asking what will happen December 22, 2012, is similar to asking what exactly will happen tomorrow, he says.

�The insistence on details is not answerable,� Jenkins says.

Biblical Apocalypse

�The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John.�

That is the first line of the Book of Revelations; the final book in the New Testament, a book that describes the biblical end of the world.

KU Religious studies professor Timothy Miller says the book is attributed to Saint John, and it is thought to have been written toward the end of the first century. The book is full of coded messages because during the Roman Empire under Emperor Domitian Christians were terribly persecuted.

The Book of Revelation predicts great sufferings at the end of the world, he says. The true Christians will survive the suffering and will be ready for paradise. Some predict it as the end of the world, and it almost works as a textbook describing the end of the world, Miller says.

The book is packed wall-to-wall with symbols, images and metaphors; he says It�s visual writing, so it all has to be interpreted, Miller says.

�You can make it say almost anything you want it to,� he says.

The phrase �the end of the world� can mean different things to different people. Some might think it�s the destruction of the human race, and some may think it means the destruction of the planet earth. Either way you differentiate the meaning of the phrase �the end of the world,� everybody is interested in it.

http://www.kansan.co...rld_we_know_it/

Is a New Solar Cycle Beginning?
12.14.2007


Dec. 14, 2007: The solar physics community is abuzz this week. No, there haven't been any great eruptions or solar storms. The source of the excitement is a modest knot of magnetism that popped over the sun's eastern limb on Dec. 11th, pictured below in a pair of images from the orbiting Solar and Heliospheric Observatory (SOHO).

It may not look like much, but "this patch of magnetism could be a sign of the next solar cycle," says solar physicist David Hathaway of the Marshall Space Flight Center.


Above: From SOHO, a UV-wavelength image of the sun and a map showing positive (white) and negative (black) magnetic polarities. The new high-latitude active region is magnetically reversed, marking it as a harbinger of a new solar cycle.

For more than a year, the sun has been experiencing a lull in activity, marking the end of Solar Cycle 23, which peaked with many furious storms in 2000--2003. "Solar minimum is upon us," he says.

The big question now is, when will the next solar cycle begin?


It could be starting now.

"New solar cycles always begin with a high-latitude, reversed polarity sunspot," explains Hathaway. "Reversed polarity " means a sunspot with opposite magnetic polarity compared to sunspots from the previous solar cycle. "High-latitude" refers to the sun's grid of latitude and longitude. Old cycle spots congregate near the sun's equator. New cycle spots appear higher, around 25 or 30 degrees latitude.

The region that appeared on Dec. 11th fits both these criteria. It is high latitude (24 degrees N) and magnetically reversed. Just one problem: There is no sunspot. So far the region is just a bright knot of magnetic fields. If, however, these fields coalesce into a dark sunspot, scientists are ready to announce that Solar Cycle 24 has officially begun.

Below: Solar Cycle 23 is coming to an end. What's next? Image credit: NOAA/Space Weather Prediction Center.



Many forecasters believe Solar Cycle 24 will be big and intense. Peaking in 2011 or 2012, the cycle to come could have significant impacts on telecommunications, air traffic, power grids and GPS systems. (And don't forget the Northern Lights!) In this age of satellites and cell phones, the next solar cycle could make itself felt as never before.

The furious storms won't start right away, however. Solar cycles usually take a few years to build to a frenzy and Cycle 24 will be no exception. "We still have some quiet times ahead," says Hathaway.

Meanwhile, all eyes are on a promising little active region. Will it become the first sunspot of a new solar cycle? Stay tuned for updates from Science@NASA.

http://science.nasa.....htm?list951772

Raju, Look at the folks who were behind the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. Mostly all theoretical physicists. Wonder if they were trying to carry on where the Nazis left off?

Arun, Randheer do you recall a presentation last year?

http://www.shareguide.com/Hagelin.html

The Nazis were pursuing Hindu knowledge of occult during WWII. After the defeat the West started tapping these yogis to see if they have some thing going. There is a deep interest in Hinduism among physicists- Oppenheimer etc. It is interesting that John Hagelin is also a theoretical physicist from Dartmouth, Harvard and Stanford. What is he doing in Mahesh Yogi's company?

Dark Mission:Secret history of NASA